Shahr 2:194... No meaning in translation and no sense it makes

jkhan

2194 The sacred month is for the sacred month, and for violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

Well... Did any of you feel same as I felt ever while you read this verse again and again.. Honestly I don't get any concrete meaning by reading as translated by everyone.. . The way it is truly absurd.. .. Even instead of Sacred if replaced as Restricted Month still no meaning literally...

But I think it gives meaning if SHAHR here means (Evil or notorious) ...so.. The Evil restricted is With/for Evil restricted, and for violations retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.. .. That really makes sense within the context of the verse..

So shahr in Quran has many meanings as I do understand.. Though translated only as month...

Any objection with logic is most welcome...

Fusion

The verse you quoted is from Surah Al-Baqarah in the Quran, and it pertains to the regulation of warfare in Islam. The verse states that the sacred month (i.e., a month in which fighting was forbidden) is to be respected and that retribution is permitted for any violations that occur during that time.

The verse also advises Muslims to defend themselves against any attack and to respond in a proportional manner. In addition, it reminds them to fear Allah and to know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

Regarding the meaning of "shahr," it is true that the word has several meanings in Arabic, including month, evil, and notorious. However, in this particular verse, it is generally accepted among Islamic scholars and translators that "shahr" refers to a sacred or restricted month.

It is important to note that the meaning of any verse in the Quran should be understood in its proper context and with reference to the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his companions. Therefore, any interpretation of the Quranic text should be based on sound scholarship and the guidance of qualified Islamic scholars.

Verse 193..195
Observing these limits and conditions set by Allah, you should fight your enemies until you have dissipated the mischief they have caused, and created an environment where no compulsion or oppression is exercised in matters of Deen (2/256, 22/40). Whenever you see that your enemies have given up this mischief, you should cease to fight with them (because the purpose of war is to prevent forces of oppression and lawlessness from spreading and once this purpose is achieved there is no need for further warfare).

194 If there is a break in warfare, the chances for peace and reconciliation become brighter. For this reason, some months have been specified in which war is not permitted. However, war is between two opposing parties and cessation of war must be reciprocal. If one party violates the agreement not to fight, the other is released from it automatically. In short, adhere to the Laws of Allah in all matters believing that those who do so have the support of Allah and are rewarded with success.

195 Wars disrupt the economic systems of a society. This must not happen, otherwise you will be ruined. For this purpose place your resources at the disposal of the System (Niz’am). Allah loves Mohsineen.

jkhan

The verse you quoted is from Surah Al-Baqarah in the Quran, and it pertains to the regulation of warfare in Islam. The verse states that the sacred month (i.e., a month in which fighting was forbidden) is to be respected and that retribution is permitted for any violations that occur during that time.

The verse also advises Muslims to defend themselves against any attack and to respond in a proportional manner. In addition, it reminds them to fear Allah and to know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

Regarding the meaning of "shahr," it is true that the word has several meanings in Arabic, including month, evil, and notorious. However, in this particular verse, it is generally accepted among Islamic scholars and translators that "shahr" refers to a sacred or restricted month.

It is important to note that the meaning of any verse in the Quran should be understood in its proper context and with reference to the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his companions. Therefore, any interpretation of the Quranic text should be based on sound scholarship and the guidance of qualified Islamic scholars.

Verse 193..195
Observing these limits and conditions set by Allah, you should fight your enemies until you have dissipated the mischief they have caused, and created an environment where no compulsion or oppression is exercised in matters of Deen (2/256, 22/40). Whenever you see that your enemies have given up this mischief, you should cease to fight with them (because the purpose of war is to prevent forces of oppression and lawlessness from spreading and once this purpose is achieved there is no need for further warfare).

194 If there is a break in warfare, the chances for peace and reconciliation become brighter. For this reason, some months have been specified in which war is not permitted. However, war is between two opposing parties and cessation of war must be reciprocal. If one party violates the agreement not to fight, the other is released from it automatically. In short, adhere to the Laws of Allah in all matters believing that those who do so have the support of Allah and are rewarded with success.

195 Wars disrupt the economic systems of a society. This must not happen, otherwise you will be ruined. For this purpose place your resources at the disposal of the System (Niz’am). Allah loves Mohsineen.

Salam..

Good to see you I. The forum..

Have you any idea what you speak of or you are behind some screen on which some spells are enchanted..

First of all let me know how would I follow the preachings of Prophet Mohamed and his companions ....... and secondly let me know who are those great scholars that I should approach to follow..
Bro... If I wanted to follow scholars I would never study Quran.. Trust me, then my only way would have been just do what they say coz they are expert on this subject like surgeon is expert for surgeries .. But unfortunately this is about my life in the hereafter and its destiny for which I need to respond to the Creator all alone and I won't be given second chancen neither and I won't be able to blame anyone else for my decision. So brother thank you for your suggestion but I am sorry I can't accept your recommendation... You know. Had I accepted any of the greatest of greatest scholars of the past or modern day then I would be still following fabricated hadith since none of those great scholars say not to follow hadith... So pls don't drag me to a pit from which I am trying to save my neck and my family if possible.. Let me be responsible for what I have done.. (note well.. If I have chosen a doctor for any serious ailment in my body regardless of your suggestion of better doctors then if anything goes wrong, I will be responsible plus I can blame doctors and whoever with doctors. But in the here after I can only blame myself not scholars like I have the opportunity to blame doctors.. Got it?)

Having said that... Let me explain you about verse 2194... I don't mind about your understanding... Yes.. Why not that could be the understanding of many a people including true believers.. No harm for me.. But my understanding is different...
To clarify.. In this verse Qisas (law of equality or retribution) is mentioned... First try to grasp what Qisas is.. Read verse 2178-179 to get a rough idea... And on top of that, read verses without fail 545, 16126, 1733 2260 4240... Pls even don't try to reply me without reading the above verses in depth and perceive them first and reply to 2194...

Well. Keep away war bro ... Just use some common sense... Ibknk you have a lot.. You can't do in war Tit for tat in an identical way.. If war then try to kill.. That's the best way against those who is at war with you... I don't see any other way of making war. Kindness to enemy while fighting is on or enemy is about to kill you is sheer foolishness.. But captives are different.. If in war if one cut your hand and if you trying to cut his hand only then that's ridiculous... Just pls understand Qisas... Don't complicate war... Reflect bro... You have knowledge ... its Okay. Denigrade me. Coz I am no one.. I have no issue on that.. Belittle me or say whatever you want.. Who cares. .. Coz.. And I am not a scholar.. But reflect yourself coz God has given you knowledge.

This verse is absolutely ordinary not war. .. God is manifest.. Violation done is violation similar... If anyone cut your hand unjustly cut his hand as he did.. Identical... Don't violate the limits of Allah... But if anyone has the courage to pardon then it is his business and few can do so. 16126..

Once you have read all above verse i furnished then read as I stated..

2194 The evil restricted is with Evil restricted, for restricted matters there is Qisas. Then whoever violate /transgress agaisnt you, then you violate /transgress WITH SIMILAR against them........... .."

Why I translate so is coz.. If you remove one of my tooth, then it is evil thing that is restricted.. Coz it is an unjust act against another human being.. But since you have done this evil restricted action, then with similar evil restricted action in reply... No more or no less.. (you know what they say. Hey don't shout at me, I also know how to shout at you.. Lol) that's what God says..

Anyways, if you can't understand what I have mentioned.. It is not my problem... For you your path and for me my path.. God knows who is guided aright... So. Let him judge... But my door is not closed to any explanation that makes sense and logic and sound truth.. Coz I am hunting guidance with truth. .. So if you bring better explanation and if it is sound and better in my understanding then I accept and pay you apology... But as of now I am happy with what God has guided me with...
Be happy with your scholars.. Perhaps they can guide you provided that those shoclars in the first guided aright... How can one who is at loss can guide another.. So ensure.. Your life after all.
Thank you..

Fusion

Thank you for your message and for sharing your perspective on the matter. I appreciate your commitment to seeking guidance from the Quran and your willingness to listen to explanations that make sense and align with sound truth. While we may have different interpretations of certain verses, I respect your decision to follow your own understanding and path towards the hereafter. May Allah guide us all to the right path.

good_logic

Peace brothers jkhan and Fusion.
Hope you do not mind me giving my view on 2194.
Qoran is "Tibyanan Likully Chaiin!- It gives us its own explanation . It is never according to anyone else s explanation whether it is the prophet, the scholars or any one else
So I am going to give my view based on my understanding, it may agree with others and some others may disagree with it. It is based on the context and of the subject of the verses;
Both context and subject start at 2190

You may fight in the cause of God against those who fight/ attack you, but do not aggress. God does not love the aggressors.
وَقٰتِلوا فى سَبيلِ اللَّهِ الَّذينَ يُقٰتِلونَكُم وَلا تَعتَدوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يُحِبُّ المُعتَدينَ

You may fight those who fight against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Masjid Alharam, unless they fight you therein. If they fight/attack first you, you may fight them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
وَاقتُلوهُم حَيثُ ثَقِفتُموهُم وَأَخرِجوهُم مِن حَيثُ أَخرَجوكُم وَالفِتنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ القَتلِ وَلا تُقٰتِلوهُم عِندَ المَسجِدِ الحَرامِ حَتّىٰ يُقٰتِلوكُم فيهِ فَإِن قٰتَلوكُم فَاقتُلوهُم كَذٰلِكَ جَزاءُ الكٰفِرينَ
If they refrain, then God is Forgiver, Most Merciful. i.e you refrain too.
فَإِنِ انتَهَوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ
You may fight them to eliminate oppression, and to serve /worship God freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
وَقٰتِلوهُم حَتّىٰ لا تَكونَ فِتنَةٌ وَيَكونَ الدّينُ لِلَّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَوا فَلا عُدوٰنَ إِلّا عَلَى الظّٰلِمينَ
Also aggression in the sacred month should be met by an equivalent response in the sacred month. If they attack you, you may retaliate by inflicting an equitable retribution. You shall observe God and know that God is with the righteous.
الشَّهرُ الحَرامُ بِالشَّهرِ الحَرامِ وَالحُرُمٰتُ قِصاصٌ فَمَنِ اعتَدىٰ عَلَيكُم فَاعتَدوا عَلَيهِ بِمِثلِ مَا اعتَدىٰ عَلَيكُم وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَاعلَموا أَنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ المُتَّقينَ

Whether fighting is with an individual or in groups is irrelevant. All fighting is war. Qisas is the law of equivalence.
Remember, what I said also applies to my explanation. i.e each find their own according to their findings.
GOD bless you both.
Peace

jkhan

Peace brothers jkhan and Fusion.
Hope you do not mind me giving my view on 2194.
Qoran is "Tibyanan Likully Chaiin!- It gives us its own explanation . It is never according to anyone else s explanation whether it is the prophet, the scholars or any one else
So I am going to give my view based on my understanding, it may agree with others and some others may disagree with it. It is based on the context and of the subject of the verses;
Both context and subject start at 2190

You may fight in the cause of God against those who fight/ attack you, but do not aggress. God does not love the aggressors.
وَقٰتِلوا فى سَبيلِ اللَّهِ الَّذينَ يُقٰتِلونَكُم وَلا تَعتَدوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يُحِبُّ المُعتَدينَ

You may fight those who fight against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Masjid Alharam, unless they fight you therein. If they fight/attack first you, you may fight them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
وَاقتُلوهُم حَيثُ ثَقِفتُموهُم وَأَخرِجوهُم مِن حَيثُ أَخرَجوكُم وَالفِتنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ القَتلِ وَلا تُقٰتِلوهُم عِندَ المَسجِدِ الحَرامِ حَتّىٰ يُقٰتِلوكُم فيهِ فَإِن قٰتَلوكُم فَاقتُلوهُم كَذٰلِكَ جَزاءُ الكٰفِرينَ
If they refrain, then God is Forgiver, Most Merciful. i.e you refrain too.
فَإِنِ انتَهَوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ
You may fight them to eliminate oppression, and to serve /worship God freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
وَقٰتِلوهُم حَتّىٰ لا تَكونَ فِتنَةٌ وَيَكونَ الدّينُ لِلَّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَوا فَلا عُدوٰنَ إِلّا عَلَى الظّٰلِمينَ
Also aggression in the sacred month should be met by an equivalent response in the sacred month. If they attack you, you may retaliate by inflicting an equitable retribution. You shall observe God and know that God is with the righteous.
الشَّهرُ الحَرامُ بِالشَّهرِ الحَرامِ وَالحُرُمٰتُ قِصاصٌ فَمَنِ اعتَدىٰ عَلَيكُم فَاعتَدوا عَلَيهِ بِمِثلِ مَا اعتَدىٰ عَلَيكُم وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَاعلَموا أَنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ المُتَّقينَ

Whether fighting is with an individual or in groups is irrelevant. All fighting is war. Qisas is the law of equivalence.
Remember, what I said also applies to my explanation. i.e each find their own according to their findings.
GOD bless you both.
Peace

Salam.

Ofcourse I do respect your understanding... You know brother these understanding only enhance our knowledge and when the understanding becomes to a point where one get convinced then it is in fact guidance for that individual... I am not here to say anything against your understanding unless you debate or say anything against my understanding so that impulsively become a debate... Of course for own guidance only not to overcome one another..

Yes.. I know verses before verse 2194 is relevant to fighting but not at war.. They were not on war.. God instructs how to behave in a situation of fighting and literally in a situation of hostility or oppression.. So it is common to anyone who wants to seek guidance from Allah through His book..

Every fighting is a kind conflict / war.. Yes I do agree.. But everyone who was attacked is not fighting... Or even everyone who was oppressed is not at war.. Do you agree? Here God gives law.. That's Qisas..

Suppose.. I slapped at the face of an innocent person with my hostile aggression and misunderstanding and anger .. But if I am a true believer and if I realize, then it is not worthy I go and ask forgiveness from him... But Qisas should be applied so that we can become thaththakun. (2179 la'allakum thaththakun) .. Be brave to go and say to the victim slap me as I did to you.. If in private let it be in private if in public let it be in public.. This law of equality is in everything.. And further God confirmed it verse 2178 by allowing the same Qisas in murder as well.. Unless deceased party agree for payment.. For any other aggression payment is NOT allowed but equal Qisas.. Unless one willingly forgive.. What Allah said in verse 545 is what Allah repeats in verse 2194..but in a broader sense..

Difference of opinion is absolutely good.. I am 100% with it.. But difference of opinion shouldn't remain as difference of opinion .. If it remains then we are groups / sects divided without knowing to us.. Guidance is one.. So.. Question those who have difference of opinion until one get clarified.. If no opportunity to debate then dig deep of what others say within yourself. . And imagine why other believer has difference in opinion to mine and does that makes sense or my own.. So self debate if not willing to debate with those who differ... If still one satisfied with one's own understanding then that's it.. Be right or wrong.. Gods guidance is last..

That's how we learn Quran... Coz if we remain with one angle about the verses of Quran and be satisfied that I am right then our faults won't crop up.. It will get ironed out within our satisfaction... Either self debate or debate with those who differ with one's own understanding... Trust me it benefits, our intention is pure guidance.. Coz God knows believers.. So.. He opens way for guidance..

That's my view and my way.. And for me it makes sense.. If each has each way of following the same verses of Quran then there is something definitely wrong .coz same book cannot give two different action... For example if one takes the verses of Zakath and obligatory charity and in my case of I take them as Purity then we are groups... God only knows then who is guided.. We may think we are guided but in fact we may not.. It can be me or even others.. But keep hinting truth.. GL.. If we are real believers God will never misguide us... Hold the rope of Allah..
Thank you lovely brother ...

good_logic

Brother jkhan.

So as believers we should synchronise our mind about every subject?
Qoran expects otherwise and nature testifies to this. How can our knowledge not be relative and incomplete?

Otherwise we will be each other wakils/guardians and we will be dishonest . So many sects think that they should believe everything the same and put lists of beliefs, this is an impossibility since times , events ,knowledge and circumstances change?
GOD has made us individuals and tries us as individuals and meets us back as individuals. Believing all the same can only mean the faculty and reasoning is one and the same for all of us. That is not the case. Just like the fingerprint of individuals are different so are the minds.

I go further than this, that Qoran expects us to be different in many subjects to evolve with Qoran s words and be prepared for correction and change.
Of course I do not mean that different views are all right ,but certainly it does not mean that there is only one right answer for all times.

Otherwise just follow what is right now and the future generations have got all their answers and there is no need for their faculties and test.

So may be me and you are both wrong and in future they will have a different understanding about many verses?
We are debating, you put your view ,I put mine and others put theirs ,some will agree and some will disagree and others will not be satisfied and will keep looking.
I am not ruling out that I will change with time, but I have to be honest and change with my own faculty and evidence.
I have considered your view and so far I am staying with mine. GOD in the verses is addressing a group in conflict/war with another/other groups.
Thanks brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

jkhan

Brother jkhan.

So as believers we should synchronise our mind about every subject?
Qoran expects otherwise and nature testifies to this. How can our knowledge not be relative and incomplete?

Otherwise we will be each other wakils/guardians and we will be dishonest . So many sects think that they should believe everything the same and put lists of beliefs, this is an impossibility since times , events ,knowledge and circumstances change?
GOD has made us individuals and tries us as individuals and meets us back as individuals. Believing all the same can only mean the faculty and reasoning is one and the same for all of us. That is not the case. Just like the fingerprint of individuals are different so are the minds.

I go further than this, that Qoran expects us to be different in many subjects to evolve with Qoran s words and be prepared for correction and change.
Of course I do not mean that different views are all right ,but certainly it does not mean that there is only one right answer for all times.

Otherwise just follow what is right now and the future generations have got all their answers and there is no need for their faculties and test.

So may be me and you are both wrong and in future they will have a different understanding about many verses?
We are debating, you put your view ,I put mine and others put theirs ,some will agree and some will disagree and others will not be satisfied and will keep looking.
I am not ruling out that I will change with time, but I have to be honest and change with my own faculty and evidence.
I have considered your view and so far I am staying with mine. GOD in the verses is addressing a group in conflict/war with another/other groups.
Thanks brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace..

Well... I don't want to drag this into a debate unless you are willing to do so... Look the people who have intelligent plus guided by God are not equal to people who are fool buy people God accepted though they are not intelligent are different that's mercy of God..

True believers definitely will follow the right guidance thata undeniable... So we don't know who on the earth doing same identical thing...
Reflect on the verse it says "They differed not after knowledge has come to them or manifested .... "
So. It means if people differ once the matter is manifest there is something in the hearts.. Or else they didn't understand so they differ...

If Allah sent one message to do in various ways which is contradictory to each group then there is no point... But you don't worry brother... Who knows, perhaps you may be in the rightly guided... But never ignore guidance when it knocks your door.. Just reflect... Coz.. If I took wrong train for the right destination then intent is not wrong but in half way if realize I am boarded on to a wrong train if still willing to travel in same train hoping we reach the destination then it is called foolishness...
Pray to God that you follow right thing.. That's all I want to remind you... That reminder is for me as well. .Gods book is meant for guidance and not for misguidance.. If misguided by same book then we are doomed coz of our own fault..

Note... If synchronise is not necessary in guidance then, I can say my fellow lovely brother Fusion what is wrong in taking scholars and listen to them... Coz he doesn't need to synchronise with those who take Quran alone as guidance as written message of God... If Quran is only source of law then if that law differ with what we have taken within Quran then it will be lip service that we say Quran is only source of law for our final goal.. Yes we may say we took Quran but we didn't take the law it prescribes.. So fusion can also say, I follow scholars coz I don't understand this quran on my own.. They are expert so I trust them that they have got it right.. So they have some kind of verse within quran to say yes we need to follow Hadith. Don't they? So.. No one is wrong.. All can have what they want.. But... Doesn't God Knkw who is guided..? Yes.. GL.. the verse in concern 2194 is a trivial after.. Perhaps you and me may not even apply this verse in our life... But there are verses of God they are imperative in such verses if we differ then God only knows our destiny. As I said for example Zakath... After all you are to reply your God so do I.. Work hard to find truth.. Thank you..

good_logic

Peace jkhan.

What is the difference between following scholars or following anyone else?

Here is what I am saying according to my understanding of Qoran

1-Follow what is revealed by the sole authority,but use our faculties and be satisfied and honest about how we understand it through our own search/ hard work and reason so we can synchronise our speech, intentions and actions and be totally sincere and transparent. "Ittaqu Allah Ma Istatatum!" i.e do our best as we can never fool GOD.Nothing to do with synchronising with others. If we happen to agree with others,it should be because of our own findings.

2-We can only agree fully with the straight path. How we conduct ourselves, behave and live peacefully with others- Sirat Al Mustaqueem- All other subjects are relative to our own knowledge and to the knowledge that each generation reaches. This does not impact our salvation. GOD gave us commandment's that are clear and morals-instinct- ,etiquettes and instructions how to be good and do good. This is crystal clear in all religions.

3-Qoran is a live book. GOD s test must carry on through all the generations. There are prophesies, future events and future science that is waiting for the generations that will follow us. Look at how many verses we understand differently than past generations. We have more and different knowledge like new generation will have more and different knowledge also.

4- Every individual in every generation will be accountable for the use of their faculties at GOD. GOD s guidance is up to GOD Alone to give to those that satisfy His criteria not ours.

5- Up to now the basics of co existing together as humans is still not applied across our world why? Because we know fighting/war is wrong but we still fight
We see others suffer through our greed and we are still greedy, We see injustice and we still ignore or cooperate in it. We see many clear wrong decisions and actions but we side with them or ignore them. Let us apply the basics at least and unite on this important way of life first?

6- "Wala Taajal Bi Qoran Min Kabli An Yukda Ilaika Wahyuhu". There is more to come brother from/ with Qoran.
We just have to keep going at our own pace and current knowledge and do our best. Never assume we have the truth above others or stagnate. After all, the truth should automatically transform our character and behaviour . We should worry about that first and foremost ,stay humble and carry on with our daily struggles and persevere to get the basics right.

7- Best of luck to all the brothers and sisters in their journey.
Thank you brother jkhan.
With respect and friendship
GOD bless you.
Peace.

jkhan