So , is Muhammad of the Quran an Israelite?
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Salaams Priest,
Okay even if he wasn't one from them ,quistion , isn't jesus telling the Isralites that the prophet will come to them but when he came obviously they rejected him as a prophet!So is the TRADITIONAL story wrong then of him coming to Mecca?
Salaams.
Khi- He did not say tht the Prophet will come 2 them or those ppl but only said tht a messenger named Ahmed wld come after him, not where he wld come i.e. 'yati mim ba'adi' NOT 'yati mim ba'adi anfusikum' meaning 'come after me from amongst urselves'. GOD Bless!
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Salaams Br.
you arn't looking to the right wordings-JAA-HUM = Came to them (i think) !!!
God's Blessings.
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Salaams Br.
you arn't looking to the right wordings-JAA-HUM = Came to them (i think) !!!
God's Blessings.
Khi- Theres no 'jaahum' in relation 2 Ahmad in 616. I know ur mistake however. Ur misinterpreting the context. Heres the verse
Recall that Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O Children of Israel, I am GOD's messenger to you, confirming the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be even more praised (Ahmad)."(Full stop. Now the verse goes on with Jesus NOT Ahmad) Then, when he(Jesus) came to them(jaahum) with the clear proofs, they said, "This is profound magic."
GOD Bless! -
Salaams Br.
Sorry but it is all one ayat and even if you put the full stop , the " Fa" is indicating the continuation of the subject matter.But i think all of us can read it and best understand it according to our own capacities.
God Bless.
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Salaams Br.
Sorry but it is all one ayat and even if you put the full stop , the " Fa" is indicating the continuation of the subject matter.But i think all of us can read it and best understand it according to our own capacities.
God Bless.
Khi- Yes n the main subject of the verse is Jesus not Ahmad. Besides the signs talked abt in this verse clearly refer 2 Jesus since Muhammad diid NOT come with signs 'ayaat' plural as we know per 1759 n 2951 Quran was his ONLY sign. It was Jesus who brought them the miracles/signs(ayaat). GOD Bless!
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Salaams Br.
some ayats where signs/magic or what ever you call it ,refers to our prophet.
011.007
YUSUFALI He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"
021.003
YUSUFALI Their hearts toying as with trifles. The wrong-doers conceal their private counsels, (saying), "Is this (one) more than a man like yourselves? Will ye go to witchcraft with your eyes open?"
034.043
YUSUFALI When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, they say, "This is only a man who wishes to hinder you from the (worship) which your fathers practised." And they say, "This is only a falsehood invented!" and the Unbelievers say of the Truth when it comes to them, "This is nothing but evident magic!"
037.015
YUSUFALI And say, "This is nothing but evident sorcery!
043.030
YUSUFALI But when the Truth came to them, they said "This is sorcery, and we do reject it."God Bless.
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Salaams Br.
some ayats where signs/magic or what ever you call it ,refers to our
prophet.Khi- R u a sunni? y do u say 'our prophet' 4 Muhammad making him specific?
011.007
YUSUFALI He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"
021.003
YUSUFALI Their hearts toying as with trifles. The wrong-doers conceal their private counsels, (saying), "Is this (one) more than a man like yourselves? Will ye go to witchcraft with your eyes open?"
034.043
YUSUFALI When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, they say, "This is only a man who wishes to hinder you from the (worship) which your fathers practised." And they say, "This is only a falsehood invented!" and the Unbelievers say of the Truth when it comes to them, "This is nothing but evident magic!"
037.015
YUSUFALI And say, "This is nothing but evident sorcery!
043.030
YUSUFALI But when the Truth came to them, they said "This is sorcery, and we do reject it."God Bless.
Khi- The verses which mention signs above r in relation with recitation. This is NOT the case in 616 where signs r mentioned independently on their. It doesnt metion the reheasing of signs. Thus in tht context singns/miracles(ayaat) has a different meaning n does not refer 2 the signs/verses of Quran. Therefore i told u 2 study things in context. Some words although same have a diffrent meaning in a different context. GOD Bless!
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PEACE, AYMAN
Peace all,
Very nice observation brother MZ.
If I'm understanding this ayat correctly, Muhammad was not of the Children of Israel but of the Gentiles/jinn. According to The Dictionary of the Quran by Omar, ummiyun is defined as "who have no revealed scripture of his own/their own; unlettered. The Children of Israel had a revealed scripture, hence, that would preclude Muhammad as being of the Children of Israel.
Brother PB, please see 278 where some of bani Israel are described as "umiyun". So bani Israel and "umiyun" intersect.
For a more accurate meaning of "ummi" based on the great reading, please see
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/language.htm
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
I did not forget about your reply, but I needed to think about it. Ummi, as I assert, is equivalent to Gentile/Jinn--those who have no revealed scripture of his own/their own; unlettered. From doing some more research on this, it has come to my attention that, even if one had the scriptures did not make them immune from being ummi/gentile/goy/nations--jinn. Consider the following
Main Entry GENTILE Origin L. Gentilis from Latin gent-, GENS nation belonging to the same clan, stock, race, people, or nations; in opposition to Roman, a foreigner; in opposition to Jew or Christian, a heathen cf. F. Gentil. See Gentle.
( It is interesting that GENS, the root of Gentile, sounds so much like JINNS and "foreigner" is one of the primary definitions for Jinn. )
One of a non-Jewish nation; one neither a Jew nor a Christian; a worshiper of false gods; a heathen. The Hebrews included in the term goyim, or nations, all the tribes of men who had not received the true faith, and were not circumcised.
Goy literally means 'a people.' However, the common understanding is that anyone who is not Jewish is considered to be a Goy. The most used definition for goyim is 'nations,' and it is generally understood to be those nations which are not of Israel. However, from a Scriptural standpoint these definitions, while usually correct, are not always true. In fact, goy can refer to anyone who is a part of any 'nation,' including the nation of Israel. Prior to the calling of Avraham (Ahv-rah-hahm = Abraham), all peoples were said to reside within their goyim or 'nations.' The practice of idolatry was the characteristic of these nations, and hence the word came to designate idolaters. There is one special situation that has existed in the world for over 2500 years where this term can be applied to a group of people who were once an integral part of the nation of Israel, but now are fully assimilated into the Goyim or nations of the world. This situation is the one in which the descendants of the House of Israel currently find themselves.
The above indicates that, while ummi/gentile/goy/nations--jinn was associated with non-Israelite people, it could still refer to any of them who no longer lived by the Law/Faith, hence, would revert back to ummi/goy/jinn/heathen status. This is certainly what occured early on among the Children of Israel when many reverted back to heathenism/idolatry.
Looking forward to your reply.
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I think you guys are looking too much into the verse. Its saying something really simple. Muhammad was prophisized to come, when he came, he was rejected. Now, if your argument is simply that he was supposed to be rejected by the Jews according to that verse, he was rejected by them in Medina.
Mohammad is also prophisized in Hindu texts, that doesn't mean Muhammad was Indian.
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And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
"the Law (which came) before me"
This maybe off the subject but (which came ) is in brackets. This should read "the law before me" , so wouldn't this imply that he is holding the Torah in his hands at the time.
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Salam albion,
This should read "the law before me" , so wouldn't this imply that he is holding the Torah in his hands at the time.
I am not sure whether that meaning is implied. I think when we translate it in english, we get that kind of meaning. In arabic, it may be referring to the Law which came before.
Pls correct me if I m wrong.
Regards,
Truth.Seeker