Quran through Hadith
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Thank you for your response. I appreciate your passion for discussing topics related to God's system. However, I would like to remind you that it's important to discuss these topics with respect for each other's views.
In our discussion, I didn't mean to misinterpret your views or intentions. I apologize if my words came across that way. I only wanted to clarify my understanding of the topic at hand.
Regarding the topic of tax, I understand your perspective that taxing can be a burden on people, and that a successful government should focus on being self-sufficient by producing enough and more. However, I would like to point out that taxation is necessary for any government to provide essential services and infrastructure to its citizens.
In any case, I believe we can continue this conversation in a respectful manner, and I hope we can learn from each other's perspectives.
Thank you, and take care.
Pls No need your appreciation and thanks. I reiterate on that...
Don't give a hint to people that I am using kind harsh words do you are hurt so asking me to keep the debate in respectful manner showing respect to each other... Well don't try to win credit.. Firat of all I didnt even address you when I talked about Tax...Okay.. Since you also talked about Zakath = Tax and Sadaqa is like just charity. .let me ask a question to you and anyone.. What is the meaning of verses when Salah and Zakath comes together.. Does it mean establish prayers and pay government tax or you want manipulate to escape from shame.. For example pls translate the below verse..
"And He has made me (Isa) blessed wherever I am and has enjoined me with salah and zakah as long as I remain alive"
Translate pls. .i know people are good at twisting verses.. Pls do for this as well... Or let me do your job... Wait..
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and government TAX as long as I remain alive
Okay.. Take all verses where salah and ZAKAT and apply Tax in its real sense and perceive how blinded you guys are... Why not reflect before speak... Or these verses are are different kind of tax or not tax just ZAKAT? rotfl
So potty these hadith followers...
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In
While the Quran does not explicitly mention the Hadith as a source of guidance, it does instruct believers to follow the Prophet's example and obey his commands (Quran 3321). Therefore, the Hadith is considered an important tool for understanding and implementing the teachings of the Quran.
.Thanks
You simply don't know what you speak with Quran verses.. How fragile... Just at least look at word by word... But no... With blindfold on your eyes just uttering what comes to mind...
3321 is not at all mentioned Prophet or Mohamed... For people of that era while the message of God is being revealed there is no Quran...Messenger itself Quran coz Quran comes through his mouth.. In other times as he rightly claimed I am just a normal human being like you. So the verse 3321
"There has certainly been for you in Messenger of Allah an excellent lessons/examples for anyone whose hopes is in Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah often."
In fact in the messages (Risala) of God that is to say in Quran loads of lessons for whom? For those whose expectations in Allah and Last day and who remembers Allah very often... In fact those who read Quran understands that how many lessons and reminders in it and that impulsively makes that person remember God ... Unfortunately as all hadith followers you all taking the Messenger as separate idol... Yes.. Mohamed is separate and prophet is separate but NOT MESSENGER.. he was a messenger coz he was placed Message... Otherwise he was just Mohamed.. Very very unfortunate you guys knowledge..
Let me ask differently... If Person Mohamed has excellent examples to follow, then from where he developed those excellent examples? Which book taught him those excellent examples.? He and his companions were near the pit of hell before QURAN was revealed to them.. So how Mohamed set excellent examples? Coz you don't find excellent excellent examples in Quran about Mohamed so you prefer hadith about his excellent examples.. But how did he manage to cultivate in the first place excellent traits if not from Quran?Do you have human brain or Brian of cow O people of Hadith... Is what Allah says true and perfectly matched to you people? As stated.. They are not reflecting and like cattles and worse than cattles..
Or else.. For instance.. 604 it states In Ibrahim and his people excellent examples /lessons... For the sake of argument let me keep away Ibrahim.. And let me ask what excellent examples God is talking about from the people of Ibrahim... Just reflect... When God says something in a Quran verse just use your wits bro... The verse itself clear. .quran itself full of excellent examples... Read 604-6 you will find excellent examples for your life.. Not in hadith..
606 "There has certainly been for you in them an excellent examples / lessons for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day.... ...
Do you see any difference in wording compared to verse 3321 ...
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Pls No need your appreciation and thanks. I reiterate on that...
Don't give a hint to people that I am using kind harsh words do you are hurt so asking me to keep the debate in respectful manner showing respect to each other... Well don't try to win credit.. Firat of all I didnt even address you when I talked about Tax...Okay.. Since you also talked about Zakath = Tax and Sadaqa is like just charity. .let me ask a question to you and anyone.. What is the meaning of verses when Salah and Zakath comes together.. Does it mean establish prayers and pay government tax or you want manipulate to escape from shame.. For example pls translate the below verse..
"And He has made me (Isa) blessed wherever I am and has enjoined me with salah and zakah as long as I remain alive"
Translate pls. .i know people are good at twisting verses.. Pls do for this as well... Or let me do your job... Wait..
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and government TAX as long as I remain alive
Okay.. Take all verses where salah and ZAKAT and apply Tax in its real sense and perceive how blinded you guys are... Why not reflect before speak... Or these verses are are different kind of tax or not tax just ZAKAT? rotfl
So potty these hadith followers...
Well... I love to see the translation of below verse from both Fusion and NDP..
417 Those who do not give GOVERNEMT TAX( zakah), and in the Hereafter they are disbelievers (KAFIR)
Well... God must have mistaken.. Isn't He? Or He is letting loose few joke by this verse... Is God showing His sense of Humour side a bit?
All translations say it is Zakath.. So for you guys ZAKAT is gov tax.. Is that all your know bros...?
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You are correct. In Quran 3321, it is stated that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has set a good example for believers,
Wrong again. The word for prophet (i.e. "nabi" does not exist in that verse.
Can you find me a verse in Quran where it states we must obey the prophet/nabi or obey Muhammad?
Perhaps this will help you
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598901.msg217606#msg217606Ask yourself, does Quran use haphazard/random wording or is every word in every place intentional?
Seriously. Ask yourself.
Check this out
And finally... there are only two verses in the entire Quran which mentions the word hadith and the Prophet together in the same verse.
- It tells us what happened when the Prophet told his wives a hadith
The Prophet had trusted some of his wives with a certain hadith, then one of them spread it, and GOD let him know about it. He then informed his wife of part of the issue, and disregarded part. She said ‘who informed you of this?’. He said ‘I was informed by the Knowledgeable, the Expert’.
If the two of you repent to GOD, then your hearts have listened. But if you band together against him, then GOD is his ally, and so is Gabriel and the righteous believers. Also, the angels are his helpers.
If he divorces you, his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submissive, believers, obedient, repentant, worshipers, pious, either previously married, or virgins.- It tells us that those with the prophet should not stay and wait around for hadith of his when at his house, clearly showing that God differentiates between the hadith of the prophet and His hadith (as contained in The Quran), i.e. they are unequal and unecessary
O you who believe, do not enter the prophet's homes except if you are invited to a meal, without you forcing such an invitation. But if you are invited, you may enter. And when you finish eating, you shall leave, without staying to wait for hadith. This used to bother the prophet, and he was shy to tell you. But God does not shy away from the truth. And if you ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier. This is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not for you to harm God's messenger, nor that you should marry his wives after him. This is indeed a gross offence with God.
Please consider what your answer to the questions stated in 7185, 456 & 7750 are. If you are in doubt as to which answer one should give, please read the verses which follow these two references.
Both occurrences are negative for the Traditional argument.
Reference
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Hadith_in_Quran.htm -
All translations say it is Zakath.. So for you guys ZAKAT is gov tax.. Is that all your know bros...?
did you not understand this?
quote author=Nom de plume link=topic=9612271.msg440774#msg440774 date=1681986265
they decided to call it "zakat"other tax they called "khums" and 1/5 doesn't mean tax
other tax they called "jizyah" and it does not mean taxlikewise, what were they giving / not giving?
273 314 وىوتون and giving الزكوه az-zakāata
وهم and they بالاخره in the afterlife its هم themselves ىوقنون assured being417 الذىن the ones لا not ىوتون giving الزكوه az-zakāata
وهم and they بالاخره in the afterlife its هم themselves كفرون rejecting -
did you not understand this?
quote author=Nom de plume link=topic=9612271.msg440774#msg440774 date=1681986265
they decided to call it "zakat"other tax they called "khums" and 1/5 doesn't mean tax
other tax they called "jizyah" and it does not mean taxlikewise, what were they giving / not giving?
273 314 وىوتون and giving الزكوه az-zakāata
وهم and they بالاخره in the afterlife its هم themselves ىوقنون assured being417 الذىن the ones لا not ىوتون giving الزكوه az-zakāata
وهم and they بالاخره in the afterlife its هم themselves كفرون rejectingJizya is not tax or anything drawn from them by force...
Jiizya befits in my understanding is restoration/amendment ..oncw they produce /bringforth amendment on their own willingness...
No need to fight for money.. Lol... It is coz they don't respect the rules or system (Deen) under the governement which is established by pure Muslims do they have to accept basic rules.. If they willingly bringforth the amendment then leave them as they are... Whatever the meaning of the verse 929 Jizya is not tax or anything but amendment.. -
Salam bro,
Salam bro,
But hadith itself needs explanations. How can can it be its an explanation of the Quran, when sometimes itself needs explanation
Now if the hadith explains the Quran why do we have reports that people like Abu Bakr was burning the hadiths.
Secondly if as they claim that the Quran was put together in a book by uthman why he left out the hadiths which are suppose to be the explanation of the Quran.
We also know they are many verses and chapters that have no hadith explanation. Now who will explain those chapters.
Hadiths have so much contradictory statements that it leaves us in doubt
Example
How long after revelation commenced did the Prophet (pbuh) live in Mecca and Medina?
There are a number of hadith in Bukhari and Muslim on this subject.Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 747
Narrated Rabia bin Abi Abdur-Rahman
I heard Anas bin Malik describing the Prophet saying, "He was of medium height amongst the people, neither tall nor short; he had a rosy color, neither absolutely white nor deep brown; his hair was neither completely curly nor quite lank. Divine Inspiration was revealed to him when he was forty years old. He stayed ten years in Mecca receiving the Divine Inspiration, and stayed in Medina for ten more years. When he expired, he had scarcely twenty white hairs in his head and beard." Rabi'a said, "I saw some of his hairs and it was red. When I asked about that, I was told that it turned red because of scent."
Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 748
Narrated Anas
Allah's Apostle was neither very tall nor short, neither absolutely white nor deep brown. His hair was neither curly nor lank. Allah sent him (as an Apostle) when he was forty years old. Afterwards he resided in Mecca for ten years and in Medina for ten more years. When Allah took him unto Him, there was scarcely twenty white hairs in his head and beard.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 190
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas
Allah's Apostle was inspired Divinely at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, and then was ordered to migrate, and he migrated to Medina and stayed there for ten years and then died.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 242
Narrated Ibn Abbas
Allah's Apostle started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 741
Narrated Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas
The Prophet stayed for ten years in Mecca with the Qur'an being revealed to him and he stayed in Medina for ten years.'
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 742
Narrated 'Aisha
Allah's Apostle died when he was sixty-three years of age.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5794
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was neither very conspicuously tall nor short-statured, and his color was neither glaringly white nor brown; his hair was neither very curly nor very straight; Allah commissioned him (as a Prophet) when he had reached the age of forty years, and he stayed in Mecca for ten years and for ten years in Medina; Allah took him away when he had just reached the age of sixty, and there had not been twenty white hair in his head and beard.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5805
'Ammar, the freed slave of Banu Hashim, reported I asked Ibn 'Abbas how old was he when death overtook the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said I little know that such a thing is not known to a man like you who belong to his people. He said I asked people about it but they differed with me, and I liked to know your opinion about it. He said Do you know counting? He said Yes. He then said Bear this in mind very well that he was commissioned (as a Prophet) at the age of forty, and he stayed in Mecca for fifteen years; sometime in peace and sometime in dread, and (lived) for ten years after his migration to Medina.
Contradictions within Bukhari
How old was the Prophet (pbuh) when he died?
Bukhari 456747 and 456748 - He was 40+10+10=60 years old.Bukhari 558242 and 559742 – He was 63 years old.
How long did the Prophet (pbuh) stay in Mecca after revelation commenced?
Bukhari 456747 and 456748 – He stayed in Mecca for 10 years.Bukhari 558190 and 559741 – He stayed in Mecca for 13 years.
What about the hadith of suckling a ground up man and which is reported by Aisha
What about the hadith of Prophet Muhammad marrying aisha at the age of 9.
What is it that made Prophet Muhammad got attracted to a kid? Really!
What about the the hadith of doing a french kiss with his grandson hassan. If you can't believe in this hadith why would you believe In other hadiths narrated by these same people?
You will see hadith proponents trying to explain these hadiths. So in other words hadith in itself need an explanation.
May Allah guide as all
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Salam bro,
Salam bro,
But hadith itself needs explanations. How can can it be its an explanation of the Quran, when sometimes itself needs explanation
Now if the hadith explains the Quran why do we have reports that people like Abu Bakr was burning the hadiths.
Secondly if as they claim that the Quran was put together in a book by uthman why he left out the hadiths which are suppose to be the explanation of the Quran.
We also know they are many verses and chapters that have no hadith explanation. Now who will explain those chapters.
Hadiths have so much contradictory statements that it leaves us in doubt
Example
How long after revelation commenced did the Prophet (pbuh) live in Mecca and Medina?
There are a number of hadith in Bukhari and Muslim on this subject.Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 747
Narrated Rabia bin Abi Abdur-Rahman
I heard Anas bin Malik describing the Prophet saying, "He was of medium height amongst the people, neither tall nor short; he had a rosy color, neither absolutely white nor deep brown; his hair was neither completely curly nor quite lank. Divine Inspiration was revealed to him when he was forty years old. He stayed ten years in Mecca receiving the Divine Inspiration, and stayed in Medina for ten more years. When he expired, he had scarcely twenty white hairs in his head and beard." Rabi'a said, "I saw some of his hairs and it was red. When I asked about that, I was told that it turned red because of scent."
Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 748
Narrated Anas
Allah's Apostle was neither very tall nor short, neither absolutely white nor deep brown. His hair was neither curly nor lank. Allah sent him (as an Apostle) when he was forty years old. Afterwards he resided in Mecca for ten years and in Medina for ten more years. When Allah took him unto Him, there was scarcely twenty white hairs in his head and beard.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 190
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas
Allah's Apostle was inspired Divinely at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, and then was ordered to migrate, and he migrated to Medina and stayed there for ten years and then died.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 242
Narrated Ibn Abbas
Allah's Apostle started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 741
Narrated Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas
The Prophet stayed for ten years in Mecca with the Qur'an being revealed to him and he stayed in Medina for ten years.'
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 742
Narrated 'Aisha
Allah's Apostle died when he was sixty-three years of age.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5794
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was neither very conspicuously tall nor short-statured, and his color was neither glaringly white nor brown; his hair was neither very curly nor very straight; Allah commissioned him (as a Prophet) when he had reached the age of forty years, and he stayed in Mecca for ten years and for ten years in Medina; Allah took him away when he had just reached the age of sixty, and there had not been twenty white hair in his head and beard.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5805
'Ammar, the freed slave of Banu Hashim, reported I asked Ibn 'Abbas how old was he when death overtook the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said I little know that such a thing is not known to a man like you who belong to his people. He said I asked people about it but they differed with me, and I liked to know your opinion about it. He said Do you know counting? He said Yes. He then said Bear this in mind very well that he was commissioned (as a Prophet) at the age of forty, and he stayed in Mecca for fifteen years; sometime in peace and sometime in dread, and (lived) for ten years after his migration to Medina.
Contradictions within Bukhari
How old was the Prophet (pbuh) when he died?
Bukhari 456747 and 456748 - He was 40+10+10=60 years old.Bukhari 558242 and 559742 – He was 63 years old.
How long did the Prophet (pbuh) stay in Mecca after revelation commenced?
Bukhari 456747 and 456748 – He stayed in Mecca for 10 years.Bukhari 558190 and 559741 – He stayed in Mecca for 13 years.
What about the hadith of suckling a ground up man and which is reported by Aisha
What about the hadith of Prophet Muhammad marrying aisha at the age of 9.
What is it that made Prophet Muhammad got attracted to a kid? Really!
What about the the hadith of doing a french kiss with his grandson hassan. If you can't believe in this hadith why would you believe In other hadiths narrated by these same people?
You will see hadith proponents trying to explain these hadiths. So in other words hadith in itself need an explanation.
May Allah guide as all
Salam everyone...
7942 They ask you, , about the Hour when is its arrival?
7943 About what you are to mention of it (The Hour)
Let's explore above verses practically... First of all "They ask you" ..it indicates they literally don't know anything about when such a horrible time occur.. That's why they asked the Messenger perhaps the messenger would be revealed any message... Coz they asked and God replied a lot.... Isn't it.. That's why we see so many places "They ask you" in Quran...
But God directly replied in black and white... "You (Mohamed) have nothing to mention about the Hour.. It means Zero knowledge is passed to him... But God has mentioned many a description /scenario of the Hour in Quran.. Not when..
But, when you read sahih Hadith from Bukhari, you will find many a prediction when it will be and on top of that its signs /descriptioms /scenarios which are not in Quran...I don't want to bring all those hadith here.. You can search in hadith websites ...
Just to enlighten..
One of the Hadiths says Prophet said "The Hour will fall on Friday"... But God says.. you have no knowledge about it / at our have nothing at all to mention about it.. ...
When God said NOTHING it means NOTHING /ZERO..
Now any one who learn Quran through hadith will definitely leave Quran verse aside and take hadith over it... That's what has happened... If you ask any conventional Muslim when the Hour Falls.. They will say on a Friday...This is what great scholars have left for us in the name of Prophet and they have authenticated also.. I know any verse in Quran can be twisted to taste in line with their hadith book.. Coz... Duping master SATAN'S support always with those who falter.. But intelligent believers cannot be hoodwinked.. What did Iblees say to Allah.. Yes.. I will hoodwink all of them.. Except little.. That's why we are called by them Quran Aloners... Though we are Muslims literally who practice only God's book..
May God guide who deserves guidance...
Thank you..
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Salam everyone...
7942 They ask you, , about the Hour when is its arrival?
7943 About what you are to mention of it (The Hour)
Let's explore above verses practically... First of all "They ask you" ..it indicates they literally don't know anything about when such a horrible time occur.. That's why they asked the Messenger perhaps the messenger would be revealed any message... Coz they asked and God replied a lot.... Isn't it.. That's why we see so many places "They ask you" in Quran...
But God directly replied in black and white... "You (Mohamed) have nothing to mention about the Hour.. It means Zero knowledge is passed to him... But God has mentioned many a description /scenario of the Hour in Quran.. Not when..
But, when you read sahih Hadith from Bukhari, you will find many a prediction when it will be and on top of that its signs /descriptioms /scenarios which are not in Quran...I don't want to bring all those hadith here.. You can search in hadith websites ...
Just to enlighten..
One of the Hadiths says Prophet said "The Hour will fall on Friday"... But God says.. you have no knowledge about it / at our have nothing at all to mention about it.. ...
When God said NOTHING it means NOTHING /ZERO..
Now any one who learn Quran through hadith will definitely leave Quran verse aside and take hadith over it... That's what has happened... If you ask any conventional Muslim when the Hour Falls.. They will say on a Friday...This is what great scholars have left for us in the name of Prophet and they have authenticated also.. I know any verse in Quran can be twisted to taste in line with their hadith book.. Coz... Duping master SATAN'S support always with those who falter.. But intelligent believers cannot be hoodwinked.. What did Iblees say to Allah.. Yes.. I will hoodwink all of them.. Except little.. That's why we are called by them Quran Aloners... Though we are Muslims literally who practice only God's book..
May God guide who deserves guidance...
Thank you..
Peace everyone...
Let's make it simple... What's this learned sources or these secondary sources... We know Quran is relevant only to conventional Muslims and those who follow Quran alone and those who seek guidance to enter God's path...
So.. Conventional Muslims(Sunni shia etc etc) faith is based on Hadith books and they take Quran revealed from God as well.. So.. Their learned source to UNDERSTAND Quran is Hadith books and even some scholars who interpreted even hadiths in different ways... Is there any other learned source for them in their practical life...
Second group those who follow Quran alone.. Their only source is Quran...
Third group.. They also learn Quran to understand...
Right...Let me detail about those who follow Quran alone.. Their essence is Quran... But they explore... Everyone is not so gifted with knowledge and everyone is not guided to maximum... But they work hard to seek through Quran itself... So they may reach learned sources.. But they reach only those who explain Quran... For example... They may read article solely written based on Quran... Forgive me for taking names here in case you don't like... For instance one may read Sam Garrens articles... He give his knowledge his understanding within mere Quran.. Nothing outside.. Or else our brother Waqas.. He writes articles only within Quran... His understanding... Or various Quran alone websites.. Or in this forum people who only speak within Quran.. Etc etc.. So.. Is there any harm reading them or listening to them... No.. They are right or wrong is not the question.. But for reader or listner he knows they are presenting their knowledge within Quran non other... So.. Those who are not blessed with knowledge to in depth dig in Quran may facilitate.. So they have only to apply their common sense to perceive... So it's called seeking knowledge... But those who blessed with intellect already, it may not need coz they can directly understand Quran... Is everyone's knowledge same? No. But everyone has common sense unless fool.. That's why in this forum for example... Some people say.. Can anyone clarify this to me? It means they need assistance... But what they looking for is Quran to understand Quran.. So those who understood presents their knowledge.. What harm in it.. Take and leaving it is up to the reader...
.........So when it comes to conventional Muslims... Their path is not like I explained above.. They are dependent even they have knowledge.. They literally don't question but they follow..what they follow.. In fact blindly...
What is their knowledge seeking path? It is Hadith books... Even how much they keep saying like brother Fusion of this Forum.. The in depth comprehensive knowledge what he calls is from non but hadiths books. What these hadiths books after all.. They are hearsay.. In the name of Prophet... Either they saw him doing or heard him saying and on top of that claiming he received another set of revelation/wahi.. That's why he(Mohamed) did or he spoke thus which are not in Quran.. Whatever..
So these sources they take for enriching their understanding of Quran.. Do they really giving an effort to understand the Quran in depth by approaching these sources or do they really discard Quran and bring forth new set of doctrine.. Of course they do bring new dogma into practice.. They don't realize it.. For example.. manifest statement to those when questioned "why you follow hadith " then their only reply is then "how we pray (Salat)" In Quran it is NOT DETAILED.. so. It is obvious they follow other doctrine NOT Quran...
So it never enrich and augment their understanding of Quran by taking other knowledge sources but it only INVENT NEW things in to practice. isn't that clear?
So it is fruitless keep saying looking at other sources to understand Quran will boost understanding Quran.. Never.. Fooling yourself while having own knowledge...Third group.. They always looking at Quran within their capacity and they accept God in life if they satisfied with Quran. Like new converts.. But after accepting these groups infusing them with hadith... Why do you do so... Then why not in the first place give them Hadith book only for them to ponder and accept God... If they could accept God and His system while they were astray, only looking at Quran then why you people force them with Hadith books... Coz you want them to do what you do while they themselves found the truth through Quran alone..
This is the extreme truth.
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Peace all.
Qoran is used as a trick/bait to catch converts by the" so called Muslims who follow hadiths and sunnah of the prophet that were an invention by the enemies of the prophet"
GOD ,however, has detailed and explained all this trickery in His own book ,by His own words to the sincere that seek His guidance from the heart with deep conviction.. GOD has managed to separate His words/book from their books/words for all the generations that followed after Qoran was revealed.GOD has also warned those who follow on their footstep and carry on the trickery and deceit -replacing GOD s words/book by men s words/books -. in HIS own words of HIS one book- Qoran- that will carry on existing to all these generation to the end of times.
GOD is saying in clear Arabic words these clear statements in His one book ,Qoran
1- GOD is ever living ,always present in every generation. The sole power and source of everything that existed/exist and will exist.The all knowledgeable .
2- GOD knows the past ,the present and future of everything. GOD is aware of all that we do.
3- GOD has sent His words ,that are enough and sufficient for our salvation and the sole authority to give laws for all His creations with His own words that will never run out. No other being can replace GOD s laws/words or authority.So those who choose to follow other than GOD and His words and laws have the freedom of choice to do so ,but the pretence that following GOD is also following the prophet and GOD s laws is a trick . Clear and simple explained in GODs one book-Qoran- and in our instinct.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace all.
Qoran is used as a trick/bait to catch converts by the" so called Muslims who follow hadiths and sunnah of the prophetPeace...
That's true with my thorough research... They are so happy that cannot be described by words not coz those converted literally but they have some inner pleasure to show others ... When I look at their comments it is pretty obvious... Anyway... We don't know why one converts and what is his intention... God knows who is guided aright and it only benefit the individual for his own neck to be saved from hell fire...
Thank you for that comment brother...
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I understand that you both hold the belief that the Quran is sometimes used as a means to deceive and lure converts by individuals who claim to follow the hadiths and sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad, whom you consider to be enemies of the Prophet.
In response to your perspective, I would like to share my understanding. While it is true that there are varying interpretations and practices within the Muslim community, it is important to recognize that many Muslims believe in the authenticity and significance of the hadiths and sunnah as sources of guidance alongside the Quran.
Muslims who follow the hadiths and sunnah do so based on their belief that these sources provide valuable insights into the Prophet's life, teachings, and example. They consider the hadiths to be a means of understanding the practical application of the Quranic principles in different aspects of life.
It is also worth mentioning that the Quran itself acknowledges the importance of following the Prophet Muhammad's guidance. In several verses, the Quran instructs believers to obey the Prophet and follow his example (e.g., Quran 332, 3321, 597). Muslims who adhere to the hadiths and sunnah believe that doing so is a way of remaining faithful to the teachings of the Prophet and upholding the Quranic principles.
Regarding your belief that God has warned against those who replace His words with the words of men, it is essential to approach the interpretation of the Quran with care and seek a balanced understanding. Islamic scholarship has developed over centuries, with scholars dedicated to studying and analyzing the Quran, hadiths, and other relevant sources to provide guidance to the Muslim community.
Ultimately, individuals have the freedom to choose their beliefs and paths of religious practice. It is important to engage in respectful dialogue and seek mutual understanding, recognizing that sincere Muslims may hold different perspectives and interpretations.
May God bless you as well, and may peace be upon you.
-
Brother Fusion,
Please reflect and ponder these verses- Arabic version included for you-. Believing in GOD is also believing GOD- His words and warnings-No soul can believe except in accordance with God's will. For He places a curse upon those who refuse to understand.
وَما كانَ لِنَفسٍ أَن تُؤمِنَ إِلّا بِإِذنِ اللَّهِ وَيَجعَلُ الرِّجسَ عَلَى الَّذينَ لا يَعقِلونَSay, "Look at all the signs in the heavens and the earth." All the proofs and all the warnings can never help people who decided to disbelieve.
قُلِ انظُروا ماذا فِى السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ وَما تُغنِى الـٔايٰتُ وَالنُّذُرُ عَن قَومٍ لا يُؤمِنونَCan they expect other than the fate of their counterparts in the past? Say, "Just wait, and, along with you, I am also waiting."
فَهَل يَنتَظِرونَ إِلّا مِثلَ أَيّامِ الَّذينَ خَلَوا مِن قَبلِهِم قُل فَانتَظِروا إِنّى مَعَكُم مِنَ المُنتَظِرينَWe ultimately save our messengers and those who believe. It is our immutable law that we save the believers.
ثُمَّ نُنَجّى رُسُلَنا وَالَّذينَ ءامَنوا كَذٰلِكَ حَقًّا عَلَينا نُنجِ المُؤمِنينَSay, "O people, if you have any doubt regarding my religion, I do not follow/serve... what you worship beside God. I follow/worship God alone; the One who will terminate your lives. I am commanded to be a believer."
قُل يٰأَيُّهَا النّاسُ إِن كُنتُم فى شَكٍّ مِن دينى فَلا أَعبُدُ الَّذينَ تَعبُدونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ وَلٰكِن أَعبُدُ اللَّهَ الَّذى يَتَوَفّىٰكُم وَأُمِرتُ أَن أَكونَ مِنَ المُؤمِنينَI was commanded "Keep yourself devoted to the religion of monotheism; you shall not practice idol worship.
وَأَن أَقِم وَجهَكَ لِلدّينِ حَنيفًا وَلا تَكونَنَّ مِنَ المُشرِكينَ"You shall not follow/serve/worship... beside God what possesses no power to benefit you or harm you. If you do, you will be a transgressor."
وَلا تَدعُ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ ما لا يَنفَعُكَ وَلا يَضُرُّكَ فَإِن فَعَلتَ فَإِنَّكَ إِذًا مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَAll Power Belongs To God
If God touches you with a hardship, none can relieve it except He. And when He blesses you, no force can prevent His grace. He bestows it upon whomever He chooses from among His servants. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful.
وَإِن يَمسَسكَ اللَّهُ بِضُرٍّ فَلا كاشِفَ لَهُ إِلّا هُوَ وَإِن يُرِدكَ بِخَيرٍ فَلا رادَّ لِفَضلِهِ يُصيبُ بِهِ مَن يَشاءُ مِن عِبادِهِ وَهُوَ الغَفورُ الرَّحيمُProclaim "O people, the truth has come to you herein from your Lord.- Not from hadiths and sunnah of others- Whoever is guided is guided for his own good. And whoever goes astray, goes astray to his own detriment. I am not a guardian over you."
قُل يٰأَيُّهَا النّاسُ قَد جاءَكُمُ الحَقُّ مِن رَبِّكُم فَمَنِ اهتَدىٰ فَإِنَّما يَهتَدى لِنَفسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّما يَضِلُّ عَلَيها وَما أَنا۠ عَلَيكُم بِوَكيلٍFollow what is revealed to you,- GOD has not revealed Hadiths and Sunnah or explanations other than Qoran- and be patient until God issues His judgment; He is the best judge.
وَاتَّبِع ما يوحىٰ إِلَيكَ وَاصبِر حَتّىٰ يَحكُمَ اللَّهُ وَهُوَ خَيرُ الحٰكِمينَ
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Dear Brother,
Thank you for sharing these verses from Chapter 10 of the Quran. I appreciate your perspective and your emphasis on the importance of reason and reflection in matters of faith. I would like to summarize these verses and also clarify my position regarding hadith literature.Verses 99-100 highlight the concept of human free will and the fact that belief cannot be forced upon anyone. It emphasizes that true faith is attained through the way prescribed by Allah, which includes the use of reason and reflection. Those who disregard reason are unable to perceive the truth.
Verse 101 suggests that reflection upon the workings of Allah's laws in the universe can help make matters clearer. However, those who disdain to reflect cannot benefit from revelation or warnings.
Verses 102-103 indicate that people who persist in their wrongdoings are waiting for history to repeat itself, bringing about the consequences faced by previous nations. The messenger is informed that when punishment comes, Allah's messengers and those who believed in them were saved. The assurance is given that the same will happen again, as Allah has taken upon Himself the responsibility of saving the believers.
Verses 104-107 address the messenger, directing him to proclaim that he will not obey the authorities followed by others besides Allah. He is commanded to obey Allah, who controls life and death, and to be among the believers who adhere to the straightforward path. The messenger is instructed to urge people to obey only Allah, as no one else can truly help or harm them. It is emphasized that all outcomes are governed by Allah's laws, and He is the ultimate Protector and Merciful.
Verse 108 addresses all of mankind, stating that the truth from their Lord has come to them. Those who choose to be guided by it will benefit themselves, while those who go astray will only harm themselves. The messenger clarifies that he is not responsible for protecting people from the consequences of their wrongdoings.
Verse 109 instructs the messenger to proclaim the message to humanity and to follow what has been revealed to him. He is advised to wait patiently until the issue between him and his opponents is resolved by Allah, as He is the best of all judges.
I would like to clarify that while I do not blindly follow hadith, I also recognize the value of scholarly works and the contributions of those who have dedicated their lives to understanding the Quran. I believe in critically analyzing various perspectives and interpretations to deepen my understanding of the message of the Quran. Ultimately, it is my responsibility to seek knowledge, reflect, and make informed judgments based on my own understanding, while seeking guidance from Allah.
Thank you for sharing these verses, and I hope this response clarifies my stance on the matter.
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Brother GL..
Little advice.. Admonish with Quran perhaps people would reflect the truth of God.. Fine... But don't wait or crave for their guidance.. You are not guardian of them... If they not follow hadith blindly, then they follow hadith intentionally with reason. Isn't it.... Isn't everyone responsible for what they do.. So you just chill.. You reminded.. Coz reminding is in fact a duty of believers as Quran commands... Remind wirh what? Yes. Only with God's book..
I leave you GL with below verses.. Reflect deeply.. Is their anything other than VERSES of God for human for certainly of heart?"lest you say, "The SCRIPTURE was only sent down to two groups before us, but we were of their STUDY UNAWARE,"
"Or lest you say, "If only the SCRIPTURE had been revealed to us, we would have been BETTER GUIDED than they." So there has come to you a clear evidence from your Lord and a GUIDANCE and mercy. Then who is more unjust than one who DENIES the VERSES of ALLAH and turns away from them? We will recompense those who turn away from Our verses with the worst of punishment for their having turned away."
"And if We had destroyed them with a punishment before him, they would have said, "Our Lord, why did You not SEND TO US A MESSENGER so we could have FOLLOWED YOUR VERSES before we were humiliated and disgraced?"
Note .... Fellow Hadith followers.. All of you lovely human being who follow hadith.. Reflect...
If hadith books are product of those great scholars life long dedication of understanding Quran and exposition of true QURANs meaning to facilitate later generation. .. Then hadith books should contain only interpretations of Quran with grammar and its true meaning chapter by chapter.. verse by verse.. But unfortunately Hadit books are inventions /fabrications manifestly and totally contrary to QURANs fundamental teachings... Is this what called results of dedication of life long ? Are we fools not being able to understand Hadit books and its meanings ? -
Fellow Hadit followers Salam...
We remind you with Quran not coz we love you coz it is our duty to remind people. Reflect or leave it is your willingness and freedom..
Great Hadith says..
Prophet Mohamed said... I leave you only two things behind.. Quran and my sunna...Well we have Quran a book... Did he really leave a book hadith... How can he say he leaves unless he did some arrangements to write them and preserve and then leave...
Anyway.. If he in fact said he leave Quran and Sunna (Hadith books) then why Mohamed on the day of judgement talks agaisnt his own statement... Why he still say my people deserted Quran alone.. Why can't he sayy people deserted Quran and sunna since he left two things...
Or he forgot on the day of judgement about sunna?
-
Peace Fusion.
I can only give you more verses,, let us see what you say this time?Quran No Ambiguity, Does not need Hadith or other explanations.
We have cited for the people every kind of example in this Quran, that they may take heed.
وَلَقَد ضَرَبنا لِلنّاسِ فى هٰذَا القُرءانِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَذَكَّرونَ
An Arabic Quran, without any ambiguity, that they may be righteous.
قُرءانًا عَرَبِيًّا غَيرَ ذى عِوَجٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَّقونَ
God cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners (Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source (Quran). Are they the same? Praise be to God; most of them do not know.
ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا رَجُلًا فيهِ شُرَكاءُ مُتَشٰكِسونَ وَرَجُلًا سَلَمًا لِرَجُلٍ هَل يَستَوِيانِ مَثَلًا الحَمدُ لِلَّهِ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَHadith A Gross Blasphemy, Muhammed left only Qoran.No hadiths or Qoran explanations or any words from him in A book to his followers
You (Muhammad) will surely die, just like they will die.
إِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ وَإِنَّهُم مَيِّتونَ
On the Day of Resurrection, before your Lord, you people will feud with one another.
ثُمَّ إِنَّكُم يَومَ القِيٰمَةِ عِندَ رَبِّكُم تَختَصِمونَ
Who is more evil than one who attributes lies to God, while disbelieving in the truth that has come to him? Is Hell not a just requital for the disbelievers?
فَمَن أَظلَمُ مِمَّن كَذَبَ عَلَى اللَّهِ وَكَذَّبَ بِالصِّدقِ إِذ جاءَهُ أَلَيسَ فى جَهَنَّمَ مَثوًى لِلكٰفِرينَQuran Absolute Truth. Hadiths are fabrications most of them lies about the prophet.
As for those who promote the truth, and believe therein, they are the righteous.
وَالَّذى جاءَ بِالصِّدقِ وَصَدَّقَ بِهِ أُولٰئِكَ هُمُ المُتَّقونَ
They will get everything they wish, at their Lord. Such is the reward for the righteous.
لَهُم ما يَشاءونَ عِندَ رَبِّهِم ذٰلِكَ جَزاءُ المُحسِنينَ
God remits their sinful works, and rewards them generously for their good works.
لِيُكَفِّرَ اللَّهُ عَنهُم أَسوَأَ الَّذى عَمِلوا وَيَجزِيَهُم أَجرَهُم بِأَحسَنِ الَّذى كانوا يَعمَلونَProfound Question, Do you need hadiths or words /explanations of men, or Is GOD and His explanations enough?
Is God not sufficient for His servant? They frighten you with the idols they set up beside Him. Whomever God sends astray, nothing can guide him.
أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِكافٍ عَبدَهُ وَيُخَوِّفونَكَ بِالَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ وَمَن يُضلِلِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن هادٍ
And whomever God guides, nothing can send him astray. Is God not Almighty, Avenger?
وَمَن يَهدِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن مُضِلٍّ أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِعَزيزٍ ذِى انتِقامٍThey Believe in God Yet, They do not believe what GOD is saying!
If you ask them, "Who created the heavens and the earth?" they will say, "God." Say, "Why then do you set up idols beside God? If God willed any adversity for me, can they relieve such an adversity? And if He willed a blessing for me, can they prevent such a blessing?" Say, "God is sufficient for me." In Him the trusters shall trust.
وَلَئِن سَأَلتَهُم مَن خَلَقَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضَ لَيَقولُنَّ اللَّهُ قُل أَفَرَءَيتُم ما تَدعونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ إِن أَرادَنِىَ اللَّهُ بِضُرٍّ هَل هُنَّ كٰشِفٰتُ ضُرِّهِ أَو أَرادَنى بِرَحمَةٍ هَل هُنَّ مُمسِكٰتُ رَحمَتِهِ قُل حَسبِىَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِ يَتَوَكَّلُ المُتَوَكِّلونَBrother I hope you ponder and study GOD s words carefully.
Say, "O my people, do your best and I will do my best; you will surely find out.
قُل يٰقَومِ اعمَلوا عَلىٰ مَكانَتِكُم إِنّى عٰمِلٌ فَسَوفَ تَعلَمونَ
"(You will find out) who has incurred shameful punishment, and has deserved an eternal retribution."
مَن يَأتيهِ عَذابٌ يُخزيهِ وَيَحِلُّ عَلَيهِ عَذابٌ مُقيمٌ
We have revealed the scripture through you for the people, truthfully. Then, whoever is guided is guided for his own good, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own detriment. You are not their advocate.
إِنّا أَنزَلنا عَلَيكَ الكِتٰبَ لِلنّاسِ بِالحَقِّ فَمَنِ اهتَدىٰ فَلِنَفسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّما يَضِلُّ عَلَيها وَما أَنتَ عَلَيهِم بِوَكيلٍGOD has only revealed the scripture-Qoran- through Muhammed. Where do you see, hadiths and sunnah as part of the scripture, GOD does not mention but one book in his revealed scripture?
I suppose people do not like GOD Alone and His words AloneWhen God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.*
وَإِذا ذُكِرَ اللَّهُ وَحدَهُ اشمَأَزَّت قُلوبُ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِالـٔاخِرَةِ وَإِذا ذُكِرَ الَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ إِذا هُم يَستَبشِرونَSome disagree and say to you they believe in the hereafter and accountability, but give GOD s words the sack.
But I give my words also here, ignore them brother if you wish, but ponder GOD s words.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
"And most of them believe not in Allah except that they attribute partners (unto Him).
Brother GL...
Again I reiterate you... What was the duty of any Messenger? Yes.. Deliver without hiding or curtailing or exaggerating anything as it was revealed to him... God explains and God guides.. Then God has communicated and Messengers had done their duty... But every prophet was human so they can advice away from verses but within the their understanding of the message... Advice and kind words are not direct verses of God . . For instance one advises another to keep away from idols and it will not take you anywhere.. . God's message is in it but not God's direct verses... Yes brother advise what is true and right and remind with God's verses and don't feel bad for anyone. But make dua for such you feel bad.. Like Ibrahim follow his way(millah).. But don't feel dissapointed if they don't listen to God's verses ...Those who follow hadith are like...
We worship other gods and deities just to get close to the God... Coz without worshipping these gods /deities they don't feel or they don't know how to near the real God...
Idol worship is so much hidden in man's thought and action. It is not literally a carved idol but anything which they give importance other than the God in place of God.. Even ones ego or desire or doing things against God's command (6121) can be (shirk) idol worship...If hadith followers think and accepted they can only near God and His verses through Hadith book then let them try near God... But it will be far from nearing... But they go far away from God.. Can anyone near with deities to God..? No way.. Would Allah accept even though their intention is to near God.. ? As below verse says..
"We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. "
One can near God from God Himself...
When I was reading Yesterday the verse of spider... It states roughly.. God's parable.. It says None will understand it except those who are knowledgeable. . So. . Quran is not open to all. Only a guidance those Allah willing... As 22 states guidance to those who fear God.. So those who not getting guidance from the Book look for other sources but in vain... Like Jews said.. We don't understand Torah without Tulmad... It is obvious Torah didnt guide them but Talmud did. Are you Hadith followers different to Jews? No.. Same.. We don't understand Quran without Hadith.. How both of you understand Talmud and Hadith while not understand Torah and Quran..
Every hadith follower reflect.. If you have knowledge... Let me advise you with this..
When group of jinn came to the place of Mohamed.. They listened to the verses of Quran and they left saying full of guidance in order to preach their community... They didn't wait for hadith or sunna... What they all wanted is God's verses.. What they said is full of guidance like the book of Musa.. They knew it is enough...brother GL...
My example.. Take it or leave it up to you...
Quran is like a football field in it players playing to score and working hard... Hadith is like spectators... They can never score being a spectator...
Even you score or not one has to be in the field.. If you score you are happy.. But if you could not no problem.. Still you were in the field playing.. Those who scored understood quran in depth.. But those who couldn't score still believed in Quran.. Coz all of them played in the football field not they were spectators... No one who played in the field are losers though their scores are less.. But losers are those who were spectators never wanted to play... But they were only interested in it (Quran) for fun..
Hope you got the parable in its true sense...Thank you... May Allah guide those who deserve..
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Dear GL and JKHAN,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspectives on the role of the Quran and the inclusion of hadiths in our understanding of Islam. I appreciate your passion for seeking the truth and following the guidance of the Quran.
I would like to clarify my position. While I believe that the Quran is the ultimate source of guidance for Muslims, I also value the importance of critical thinking and studying scholarly works, including hadiths, to gain a deeper understanding of the context and teachings of Islam. I approach these additional sources with an open mind, always keeping the Quran as my primary point of reference.
GL, you mentioned that the Quran contains no ambiguity and does not require additional explanations. I agree that the Quran provides clear guidance, but I also acknowledge that the interpretation of its verses can sometimes be complex and subject to different understandings. Therefore, studying hadiths and scholarly works can provide valuable insights into the context and application of the Quranic teachings.
JKHAN, you expressed the view that following hadiths can be likened to idol worship and that the Quran alone is sufficient for guidance. While I respect your perspective, I believe that hadiths, when scrutinized critically and in line with the Quran, can offer valuable historical and practical insights into the life and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
In conclusion, I would like to request that you both respect my personal approach to studying Islam, which involves considering multiple sources while giving priority to the Quran. I am open to engaging in discussions and seeking a deeper understanding of our faith. Let us continue our dialogue with respect and humility, focusing on our shared goal of seeking the truth.
In the spirit of open dialogue and mutual understanding, I would like to suggest that we strive to express our opinions with more humility and respect for others' viewpoints. It's essential to remember that we all have room to learn and grow, and by being open to diverse perspectives, we can foster a more inclusive and enriching environment for discussion. Statements such as take it or leave it or similar ones are not In the spirit of an open debate, let's strive to explore multiple viewpoints rather than resorting to ultimatums.
Thank you for your understanding.
