Quran through Hadith
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Salam everyone...
7942 They ask you, , about the Hour when is its arrival?
7943 About what you are to mention of it (The Hour)
Let's explore above verses practically... First of all "They ask you" ..it indicates they literally don't know anything about when such a horrible time occur.. That's why they asked the Messenger perhaps the messenger would be revealed any message... Coz they asked and God replied a lot.... Isn't it.. That's why we see so many places "They ask you" in Quran...
But God directly replied in black and white... "You (Mohamed) have nothing to mention about the Hour.. It means Zero knowledge is passed to him... But God has mentioned many a description /scenario of the Hour in Quran.. Not when..
But, when you read sahih Hadith from Bukhari, you will find many a prediction when it will be and on top of that its signs /descriptioms /scenarios which are not in Quran...I don't want to bring all those hadith here.. You can search in hadith websites ...
Just to enlighten..
One of the Hadiths says Prophet said "The Hour will fall on Friday"... But God says.. you have no knowledge about it / at our have nothing at all to mention about it.. ...
When God said NOTHING it means NOTHING /ZERO..
Now any one who learn Quran through hadith will definitely leave Quran verse aside and take hadith over it... That's what has happened... If you ask any conventional Muslim when the Hour Falls.. They will say on a Friday...This is what great scholars have left for us in the name of Prophet and they have authenticated also.. I know any verse in Quran can be twisted to taste in line with their hadith book.. Coz... Duping master SATAN'S support always with those who falter.. But intelligent believers cannot be hoodwinked.. What did Iblees say to Allah.. Yes.. I will hoodwink all of them.. Except little.. That's why we are called by them Quran Aloners... Though we are Muslims literally who practice only God's book..
May God guide who deserves guidance...
Thank you..
Peace everyone...
Let's make it simple... What's this learned sources or these secondary sources... We know Quran is relevant only to conventional Muslims and those who follow Quran alone and those who seek guidance to enter God's path...
So.. Conventional Muslims(Sunni shia etc etc) faith is based on Hadith books and they take Quran revealed from God as well.. So.. Their learned source to UNDERSTAND Quran is Hadith books and even some scholars who interpreted even hadiths in different ways... Is there any other learned source for them in their practical life...
Second group those who follow Quran alone.. Their only source is Quran...
Third group.. They also learn Quran to understand...
Right...Let me detail about those who follow Quran alone.. Their essence is Quran... But they explore... Everyone is not so gifted with knowledge and everyone is not guided to maximum... But they work hard to seek through Quran itself... So they may reach learned sources.. But they reach only those who explain Quran... For example... They may read article solely written based on Quran... Forgive me for taking names here in case you don't like... For instance one may read Sam Garrens articles... He give his knowledge his understanding within mere Quran.. Nothing outside.. Or else our brother Waqas.. He writes articles only within Quran... His understanding... Or various Quran alone websites.. Or in this forum people who only speak within Quran.. Etc etc.. So.. Is there any harm reading them or listening to them... No.. They are right or wrong is not the question.. But for reader or listner he knows they are presenting their knowledge within Quran non other... So.. Those who are not blessed with knowledge to in depth dig in Quran may facilitate.. So they have only to apply their common sense to perceive... So it's called seeking knowledge... But those who blessed with intellect already, it may not need coz they can directly understand Quran... Is everyone's knowledge same? No. But everyone has common sense unless fool.. That's why in this forum for example... Some people say.. Can anyone clarify this to me? It means they need assistance... But what they looking for is Quran to understand Quran.. So those who understood presents their knowledge.. What harm in it.. Take and leaving it is up to the reader...
.........So when it comes to conventional Muslims... Their path is not like I explained above.. They are dependent even they have knowledge.. They literally don't question but they follow..what they follow.. In fact blindly...
What is their knowledge seeking path? It is Hadith books... Even how much they keep saying like brother Fusion of this Forum.. The in depth comprehensive knowledge what he calls is from non but hadiths books. What these hadiths books after all.. They are hearsay.. In the name of Prophet... Either they saw him doing or heard him saying and on top of that claiming he received another set of revelation/wahi.. That's why he(Mohamed) did or he spoke thus which are not in Quran.. Whatever..
So these sources they take for enriching their understanding of Quran.. Do they really giving an effort to understand the Quran in depth by approaching these sources or do they really discard Quran and bring forth new set of doctrine.. Of course they do bring new dogma into practice.. They don't realize it.. For example.. manifest statement to those when questioned "why you follow hadith " then their only reply is then "how we pray (Salat)" In Quran it is NOT DETAILED.. so. It is obvious they follow other doctrine NOT Quran...
So it never enrich and augment their understanding of Quran by taking other knowledge sources but it only INVENT NEW things in to practice. isn't that clear?
So it is fruitless keep saying looking at other sources to understand Quran will boost understanding Quran.. Never.. Fooling yourself while having own knowledge...Third group.. They always looking at Quran within their capacity and they accept God in life if they satisfied with Quran. Like new converts.. But after accepting these groups infusing them with hadith... Why do you do so... Then why not in the first place give them Hadith book only for them to ponder and accept God... If they could accept God and His system while they were astray, only looking at Quran then why you people force them with Hadith books... Coz you want them to do what you do while they themselves found the truth through Quran alone..
This is the extreme truth.
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Peace all.
Qoran is used as a trick/bait to catch converts by the" so called Muslims who follow hadiths and sunnah of the prophet that were an invention by the enemies of the prophet"
GOD ,however, has detailed and explained all this trickery in His own book ,by His own words to the sincere that seek His guidance from the heart with deep conviction.. GOD has managed to separate His words/book from their books/words for all the generations that followed after Qoran was revealed.GOD has also warned those who follow on their footstep and carry on the trickery and deceit -replacing GOD s words/book by men s words/books -. in HIS own words of HIS one book- Qoran- that will carry on existing to all these generation to the end of times.
GOD is saying in clear Arabic words these clear statements in His one book ,Qoran
1- GOD is ever living ,always present in every generation. The sole power and source of everything that existed/exist and will exist.The all knowledgeable .
2- GOD knows the past ,the present and future of everything. GOD is aware of all that we do.
3- GOD has sent His words ,that are enough and sufficient for our salvation and the sole authority to give laws for all His creations with His own words that will never run out. No other being can replace GOD s laws/words or authority.So those who choose to follow other than GOD and His words and laws have the freedom of choice to do so ,but the pretence that following GOD is also following the prophet and GOD s laws is a trick . Clear and simple explained in GODs one book-Qoran- and in our instinct.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace all.
Qoran is used as a trick/bait to catch converts by the" so called Muslims who follow hadiths and sunnah of the prophetPeace...
That's true with my thorough research... They are so happy that cannot be described by words not coz those converted literally but they have some inner pleasure to show others ... When I look at their comments it is pretty obvious... Anyway... We don't know why one converts and what is his intention... God knows who is guided aright and it only benefit the individual for his own neck to be saved from hell fire...
Thank you for that comment brother...
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I understand that you both hold the belief that the Quran is sometimes used as a means to deceive and lure converts by individuals who claim to follow the hadiths and sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad, whom you consider to be enemies of the Prophet.
In response to your perspective, I would like to share my understanding. While it is true that there are varying interpretations and practices within the Muslim community, it is important to recognize that many Muslims believe in the authenticity and significance of the hadiths and sunnah as sources of guidance alongside the Quran.
Muslims who follow the hadiths and sunnah do so based on their belief that these sources provide valuable insights into the Prophet's life, teachings, and example. They consider the hadiths to be a means of understanding the practical application of the Quranic principles in different aspects of life.
It is also worth mentioning that the Quran itself acknowledges the importance of following the Prophet Muhammad's guidance. In several verses, the Quran instructs believers to obey the Prophet and follow his example (e.g., Quran 332, 3321, 597). Muslims who adhere to the hadiths and sunnah believe that doing so is a way of remaining faithful to the teachings of the Prophet and upholding the Quranic principles.
Regarding your belief that God has warned against those who replace His words with the words of men, it is essential to approach the interpretation of the Quran with care and seek a balanced understanding. Islamic scholarship has developed over centuries, with scholars dedicated to studying and analyzing the Quran, hadiths, and other relevant sources to provide guidance to the Muslim community.
Ultimately, individuals have the freedom to choose their beliefs and paths of religious practice. It is important to engage in respectful dialogue and seek mutual understanding, recognizing that sincere Muslims may hold different perspectives and interpretations.
May God bless you as well, and may peace be upon you.
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Brother Fusion,
Please reflect and ponder these verses- Arabic version included for you-. Believing in GOD is also believing GOD- His words and warnings-No soul can believe except in accordance with God's will. For He places a curse upon those who refuse to understand.
وَما كانَ لِنَفسٍ أَن تُؤمِنَ إِلّا بِإِذنِ اللَّهِ وَيَجعَلُ الرِّجسَ عَلَى الَّذينَ لا يَعقِلونَSay, "Look at all the signs in the heavens and the earth." All the proofs and all the warnings can never help people who decided to disbelieve.
قُلِ انظُروا ماذا فِى السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ وَما تُغنِى الـٔايٰتُ وَالنُّذُرُ عَن قَومٍ لا يُؤمِنونَCan they expect other than the fate of their counterparts in the past? Say, "Just wait, and, along with you, I am also waiting."
فَهَل يَنتَظِرونَ إِلّا مِثلَ أَيّامِ الَّذينَ خَلَوا مِن قَبلِهِم قُل فَانتَظِروا إِنّى مَعَكُم مِنَ المُنتَظِرينَWe ultimately save our messengers and those who believe. It is our immutable law that we save the believers.
ثُمَّ نُنَجّى رُسُلَنا وَالَّذينَ ءامَنوا كَذٰلِكَ حَقًّا عَلَينا نُنجِ المُؤمِنينَSay, "O people, if you have any doubt regarding my religion, I do not follow/serve... what you worship beside God. I follow/worship God alone; the One who will terminate your lives. I am commanded to be a believer."
قُل يٰأَيُّهَا النّاسُ إِن كُنتُم فى شَكٍّ مِن دينى فَلا أَعبُدُ الَّذينَ تَعبُدونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ وَلٰكِن أَعبُدُ اللَّهَ الَّذى يَتَوَفّىٰكُم وَأُمِرتُ أَن أَكونَ مِنَ المُؤمِنينَI was commanded "Keep yourself devoted to the religion of monotheism; you shall not practice idol worship.
وَأَن أَقِم وَجهَكَ لِلدّينِ حَنيفًا وَلا تَكونَنَّ مِنَ المُشرِكينَ"You shall not follow/serve/worship... beside God what possesses no power to benefit you or harm you. If you do, you will be a transgressor."
وَلا تَدعُ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ ما لا يَنفَعُكَ وَلا يَضُرُّكَ فَإِن فَعَلتَ فَإِنَّكَ إِذًا مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَAll Power Belongs To God
If God touches you with a hardship, none can relieve it except He. And when He blesses you, no force can prevent His grace. He bestows it upon whomever He chooses from among His servants. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful.
وَإِن يَمسَسكَ اللَّهُ بِضُرٍّ فَلا كاشِفَ لَهُ إِلّا هُوَ وَإِن يُرِدكَ بِخَيرٍ فَلا رادَّ لِفَضلِهِ يُصيبُ بِهِ مَن يَشاءُ مِن عِبادِهِ وَهُوَ الغَفورُ الرَّحيمُProclaim "O people, the truth has come to you herein from your Lord.- Not from hadiths and sunnah of others- Whoever is guided is guided for his own good. And whoever goes astray, goes astray to his own detriment. I am not a guardian over you."
قُل يٰأَيُّهَا النّاسُ قَد جاءَكُمُ الحَقُّ مِن رَبِّكُم فَمَنِ اهتَدىٰ فَإِنَّما يَهتَدى لِنَفسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّما يَضِلُّ عَلَيها وَما أَنا۠ عَلَيكُم بِوَكيلٍFollow what is revealed to you,- GOD has not revealed Hadiths and Sunnah or explanations other than Qoran- and be patient until God issues His judgment; He is the best judge.
وَاتَّبِع ما يوحىٰ إِلَيكَ وَاصبِر حَتّىٰ يَحكُمَ اللَّهُ وَهُوَ خَيرُ الحٰكِمينَ
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Dear Brother,
Thank you for sharing these verses from Chapter 10 of the Quran. I appreciate your perspective and your emphasis on the importance of reason and reflection in matters of faith. I would like to summarize these verses and also clarify my position regarding hadith literature.Verses 99-100 highlight the concept of human free will and the fact that belief cannot be forced upon anyone. It emphasizes that true faith is attained through the way prescribed by Allah, which includes the use of reason and reflection. Those who disregard reason are unable to perceive the truth.
Verse 101 suggests that reflection upon the workings of Allah's laws in the universe can help make matters clearer. However, those who disdain to reflect cannot benefit from revelation or warnings.
Verses 102-103 indicate that people who persist in their wrongdoings are waiting for history to repeat itself, bringing about the consequences faced by previous nations. The messenger is informed that when punishment comes, Allah's messengers and those who believed in them were saved. The assurance is given that the same will happen again, as Allah has taken upon Himself the responsibility of saving the believers.
Verses 104-107 address the messenger, directing him to proclaim that he will not obey the authorities followed by others besides Allah. He is commanded to obey Allah, who controls life and death, and to be among the believers who adhere to the straightforward path. The messenger is instructed to urge people to obey only Allah, as no one else can truly help or harm them. It is emphasized that all outcomes are governed by Allah's laws, and He is the ultimate Protector and Merciful.
Verse 108 addresses all of mankind, stating that the truth from their Lord has come to them. Those who choose to be guided by it will benefit themselves, while those who go astray will only harm themselves. The messenger clarifies that he is not responsible for protecting people from the consequences of their wrongdoings.
Verse 109 instructs the messenger to proclaim the message to humanity and to follow what has been revealed to him. He is advised to wait patiently until the issue between him and his opponents is resolved by Allah, as He is the best of all judges.
I would like to clarify that while I do not blindly follow hadith, I also recognize the value of scholarly works and the contributions of those who have dedicated their lives to understanding the Quran. I believe in critically analyzing various perspectives and interpretations to deepen my understanding of the message of the Quran. Ultimately, it is my responsibility to seek knowledge, reflect, and make informed judgments based on my own understanding, while seeking guidance from Allah.
Thank you for sharing these verses, and I hope this response clarifies my stance on the matter.
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Brother GL..
Little advice.. Admonish with Quran perhaps people would reflect the truth of God.. Fine... But don't wait or crave for their guidance.. You are not guardian of them... If they not follow hadith blindly, then they follow hadith intentionally with reason. Isn't it.... Isn't everyone responsible for what they do.. So you just chill.. You reminded.. Coz reminding is in fact a duty of believers as Quran commands... Remind wirh what? Yes. Only with God's book..
I leave you GL with below verses.. Reflect deeply.. Is their anything other than VERSES of God for human for certainly of heart?"lest you say, "The SCRIPTURE was only sent down to two groups before us, but we were of their STUDY UNAWARE,"
"Or lest you say, "If only the SCRIPTURE had been revealed to us, we would have been BETTER GUIDED than they." So there has come to you a clear evidence from your Lord and a GUIDANCE and mercy. Then who is more unjust than one who DENIES the VERSES of ALLAH and turns away from them? We will recompense those who turn away from Our verses with the worst of punishment for their having turned away."
"And if We had destroyed them with a punishment before him, they would have said, "Our Lord, why did You not SEND TO US A MESSENGER so we could have FOLLOWED YOUR VERSES before we were humiliated and disgraced?"
Note .... Fellow Hadith followers.. All of you lovely human being who follow hadith.. Reflect...
If hadith books are product of those great scholars life long dedication of understanding Quran and exposition of true QURANs meaning to facilitate later generation. .. Then hadith books should contain only interpretations of Quran with grammar and its true meaning chapter by chapter.. verse by verse.. But unfortunately Hadit books are inventions /fabrications manifestly and totally contrary to QURANs fundamental teachings... Is this what called results of dedication of life long ? Are we fools not being able to understand Hadit books and its meanings ? -
Fellow Hadit followers Salam...
We remind you with Quran not coz we love you coz it is our duty to remind people. Reflect or leave it is your willingness and freedom..
Great Hadith says..
Prophet Mohamed said... I leave you only two things behind.. Quran and my sunna...Well we have Quran a book... Did he really leave a book hadith... How can he say he leaves unless he did some arrangements to write them and preserve and then leave...
Anyway.. If he in fact said he leave Quran and Sunna (Hadith books) then why Mohamed on the day of judgement talks agaisnt his own statement... Why he still say my people deserted Quran alone.. Why can't he sayy people deserted Quran and sunna since he left two things...
Or he forgot on the day of judgement about sunna?
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Peace Fusion.
I can only give you more verses,, let us see what you say this time?Quran No Ambiguity, Does not need Hadith or other explanations.
We have cited for the people every kind of example in this Quran, that they may take heed.
وَلَقَد ضَرَبنا لِلنّاسِ فى هٰذَا القُرءانِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَذَكَّرونَ
An Arabic Quran, without any ambiguity, that they may be righteous.
قُرءانًا عَرَبِيًّا غَيرَ ذى عِوَجٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَّقونَ
God cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners (Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source (Quran). Are they the same? Praise be to God; most of them do not know.
ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا رَجُلًا فيهِ شُرَكاءُ مُتَشٰكِسونَ وَرَجُلًا سَلَمًا لِرَجُلٍ هَل يَستَوِيانِ مَثَلًا الحَمدُ لِلَّهِ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَHadith A Gross Blasphemy, Muhammed left only Qoran.No hadiths or Qoran explanations or any words from him in A book to his followers
You (Muhammad) will surely die, just like they will die.
إِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ وَإِنَّهُم مَيِّتونَ
On the Day of Resurrection, before your Lord, you people will feud with one another.
ثُمَّ إِنَّكُم يَومَ القِيٰمَةِ عِندَ رَبِّكُم تَختَصِمونَ
Who is more evil than one who attributes lies to God, while disbelieving in the truth that has come to him? Is Hell not a just requital for the disbelievers?
فَمَن أَظلَمُ مِمَّن كَذَبَ عَلَى اللَّهِ وَكَذَّبَ بِالصِّدقِ إِذ جاءَهُ أَلَيسَ فى جَهَنَّمَ مَثوًى لِلكٰفِرينَQuran Absolute Truth. Hadiths are fabrications most of them lies about the prophet.
As for those who promote the truth, and believe therein, they are the righteous.
وَالَّذى جاءَ بِالصِّدقِ وَصَدَّقَ بِهِ أُولٰئِكَ هُمُ المُتَّقونَ
They will get everything they wish, at their Lord. Such is the reward for the righteous.
لَهُم ما يَشاءونَ عِندَ رَبِّهِم ذٰلِكَ جَزاءُ المُحسِنينَ
God remits their sinful works, and rewards them generously for their good works.
لِيُكَفِّرَ اللَّهُ عَنهُم أَسوَأَ الَّذى عَمِلوا وَيَجزِيَهُم أَجرَهُم بِأَحسَنِ الَّذى كانوا يَعمَلونَProfound Question, Do you need hadiths or words /explanations of men, or Is GOD and His explanations enough?
Is God not sufficient for His servant? They frighten you with the idols they set up beside Him. Whomever God sends astray, nothing can guide him.
أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِكافٍ عَبدَهُ وَيُخَوِّفونَكَ بِالَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ وَمَن يُضلِلِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن هادٍ
And whomever God guides, nothing can send him astray. Is God not Almighty, Avenger?
وَمَن يَهدِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن مُضِلٍّ أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِعَزيزٍ ذِى انتِقامٍThey Believe in God Yet, They do not believe what GOD is saying!
If you ask them, "Who created the heavens and the earth?" they will say, "God." Say, "Why then do you set up idols beside God? If God willed any adversity for me, can they relieve such an adversity? And if He willed a blessing for me, can they prevent such a blessing?" Say, "God is sufficient for me." In Him the trusters shall trust.
وَلَئِن سَأَلتَهُم مَن خَلَقَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضَ لَيَقولُنَّ اللَّهُ قُل أَفَرَءَيتُم ما تَدعونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ إِن أَرادَنِىَ اللَّهُ بِضُرٍّ هَل هُنَّ كٰشِفٰتُ ضُرِّهِ أَو أَرادَنى بِرَحمَةٍ هَل هُنَّ مُمسِكٰتُ رَحمَتِهِ قُل حَسبِىَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِ يَتَوَكَّلُ المُتَوَكِّلونَBrother I hope you ponder and study GOD s words carefully.
Say, "O my people, do your best and I will do my best; you will surely find out.
قُل يٰقَومِ اعمَلوا عَلىٰ مَكانَتِكُم إِنّى عٰمِلٌ فَسَوفَ تَعلَمونَ
"(You will find out) who has incurred shameful punishment, and has deserved an eternal retribution."
مَن يَأتيهِ عَذابٌ يُخزيهِ وَيَحِلُّ عَلَيهِ عَذابٌ مُقيمٌ
We have revealed the scripture through you for the people, truthfully. Then, whoever is guided is guided for his own good, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own detriment. You are not their advocate.
إِنّا أَنزَلنا عَلَيكَ الكِتٰبَ لِلنّاسِ بِالحَقِّ فَمَنِ اهتَدىٰ فَلِنَفسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّما يَضِلُّ عَلَيها وَما أَنتَ عَلَيهِم بِوَكيلٍGOD has only revealed the scripture-Qoran- through Muhammed. Where do you see, hadiths and sunnah as part of the scripture, GOD does not mention but one book in his revealed scripture?
I suppose people do not like GOD Alone and His words AloneWhen God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.*
وَإِذا ذُكِرَ اللَّهُ وَحدَهُ اشمَأَزَّت قُلوبُ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِالـٔاخِرَةِ وَإِذا ذُكِرَ الَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ إِذا هُم يَستَبشِرونَSome disagree and say to you they believe in the hereafter and accountability, but give GOD s words the sack.
But I give my words also here, ignore them brother if you wish, but ponder GOD s words.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
"And most of them believe not in Allah except that they attribute partners (unto Him).
Brother GL...
Again I reiterate you... What was the duty of any Messenger? Yes.. Deliver without hiding or curtailing or exaggerating anything as it was revealed to him... God explains and God guides.. Then God has communicated and Messengers had done their duty... But every prophet was human so they can advice away from verses but within the their understanding of the message... Advice and kind words are not direct verses of God . . For instance one advises another to keep away from idols and it will not take you anywhere.. . God's message is in it but not God's direct verses... Yes brother advise what is true and right and remind with God's verses and don't feel bad for anyone. But make dua for such you feel bad.. Like Ibrahim follow his way(millah).. But don't feel dissapointed if they don't listen to God's verses ...Those who follow hadith are like...
We worship other gods and deities just to get close to the God... Coz without worshipping these gods /deities they don't feel or they don't know how to near the real God...
Idol worship is so much hidden in man's thought and action. It is not literally a carved idol but anything which they give importance other than the God in place of God.. Even ones ego or desire or doing things against God's command (6121) can be (shirk) idol worship...If hadith followers think and accepted they can only near God and His verses through Hadith book then let them try near God... But it will be far from nearing... But they go far away from God.. Can anyone near with deities to God..? No way.. Would Allah accept even though their intention is to near God.. ? As below verse says..
"We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. "
One can near God from God Himself...
When I was reading Yesterday the verse of spider... It states roughly.. God's parable.. It says None will understand it except those who are knowledgeable. . So. . Quran is not open to all. Only a guidance those Allah willing... As 22 states guidance to those who fear God.. So those who not getting guidance from the Book look for other sources but in vain... Like Jews said.. We don't understand Torah without Tulmad... It is obvious Torah didnt guide them but Talmud did. Are you Hadith followers different to Jews? No.. Same.. We don't understand Quran without Hadith.. How both of you understand Talmud and Hadith while not understand Torah and Quran..
Every hadith follower reflect.. If you have knowledge... Let me advise you with this..
When group of jinn came to the place of Mohamed.. They listened to the verses of Quran and they left saying full of guidance in order to preach their community... They didn't wait for hadith or sunna... What they all wanted is God's verses.. What they said is full of guidance like the book of Musa.. They knew it is enough...brother GL...
My example.. Take it or leave it up to you...
Quran is like a football field in it players playing to score and working hard... Hadith is like spectators... They can never score being a spectator...
Even you score or not one has to be in the field.. If you score you are happy.. But if you could not no problem.. Still you were in the field playing.. Those who scored understood quran in depth.. But those who couldn't score still believed in Quran.. Coz all of them played in the football field not they were spectators... No one who played in the field are losers though their scores are less.. But losers are those who were spectators never wanted to play... But they were only interested in it (Quran) for fun..
Hope you got the parable in its true sense...Thank you... May Allah guide those who deserve..
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Dear GL and JKHAN,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspectives on the role of the Quran and the inclusion of hadiths in our understanding of Islam. I appreciate your passion for seeking the truth and following the guidance of the Quran.
I would like to clarify my position. While I believe that the Quran is the ultimate source of guidance for Muslims, I also value the importance of critical thinking and studying scholarly works, including hadiths, to gain a deeper understanding of the context and teachings of Islam. I approach these additional sources with an open mind, always keeping the Quran as my primary point of reference.
GL, you mentioned that the Quran contains no ambiguity and does not require additional explanations. I agree that the Quran provides clear guidance, but I also acknowledge that the interpretation of its verses can sometimes be complex and subject to different understandings. Therefore, studying hadiths and scholarly works can provide valuable insights into the context and application of the Quranic teachings.
JKHAN, you expressed the view that following hadiths can be likened to idol worship and that the Quran alone is sufficient for guidance. While I respect your perspective, I believe that hadiths, when scrutinized critically and in line with the Quran, can offer valuable historical and practical insights into the life and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
In conclusion, I would like to request that you both respect my personal approach to studying Islam, which involves considering multiple sources while giving priority to the Quran. I am open to engaging in discussions and seeking a deeper understanding of our faith. Let us continue our dialogue with respect and humility, focusing on our shared goal of seeking the truth.
In the spirit of open dialogue and mutual understanding, I would like to suggest that we strive to express our opinions with more humility and respect for others' viewpoints. It's essential to remember that we all have room to learn and grow, and by being open to diverse perspectives, we can foster a more inclusive and enriching environment for discussion. Statements such as take it or leave it or similar ones are not In the spirit of an open debate, let's strive to explore multiple viewpoints rather than resorting to ultimatums.
Thank you for your understanding.
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Peace Fusion.
I can only give you more verses,, let us see what you say this time?Quran No Ambiguity, Does not need Hadith or other explanations.
We have cited for the people every kind of example in this Quran, that they may take heed.
وَلَقَد ضَرَبنا لِلنّاسِ فى هٰذَا القُرءانِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَذَكَّرونَ
An Arabic Quran, without any ambiguity, that they may be righteous.
قُرءانًا عَرَبِيًّا غَيرَ ذى عِوَجٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَّقونَ
God cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners (Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source (Quran). Are they the same? Praise be to God; most of them do not know.
ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا رَجُلًا فيهِ شُرَكاءُ مُتَشٰكِسونَ وَرَجُلًا سَلَمًا لِرَجُلٍ هَل يَستَوِيانِ مَثَلًا الحَمدُ لِلَّهِ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَHadith A Gross Blasphemy, Muhammed left only Qoran.No hadiths or Qoran explanations or any words from him in A book to his followers
You (Muhammad) will surely die, just like they will die.
إِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ وَإِنَّهُم مَيِّتونَ
On the Day of Resurrection, before your Lord, you people will feud with one another.
ثُمَّ إِنَّكُم يَومَ القِيٰمَةِ عِندَ رَبِّكُم تَختَصِمونَ
Who is more evil than one who attributes lies to God, while disbelieving in the truth that has come to him? Is Hell not a just requital for the disbelievers?
فَمَن أَظلَمُ مِمَّن كَذَبَ عَلَى اللَّهِ وَكَذَّبَ بِالصِّدقِ إِذ جاءَهُ أَلَيسَ فى جَهَنَّمَ مَثوًى لِلكٰفِرينَQuran Absolute Truth. Hadiths are fabrications most of them lies about the prophet.
As for those who promote the truth, and believe therein, they are the righteous.
وَالَّذى جاءَ بِالصِّدقِ وَصَدَّقَ بِهِ أُولٰئِكَ هُمُ المُتَّقونَ
They will get everything they wish, at their Lord. Such is the reward for the righteous.
لَهُم ما يَشاءونَ عِندَ رَبِّهِم ذٰلِكَ جَزاءُ المُحسِنينَ
God remits their sinful works, and rewards them generously for their good works.
لِيُكَفِّرَ اللَّهُ عَنهُم أَسوَأَ الَّذى عَمِلوا وَيَجزِيَهُم أَجرَهُم بِأَحسَنِ الَّذى كانوا يَعمَلونَProfound Question, Do you need hadiths or words /explanations of men, or Is GOD and His explanations enough?
Is God not sufficient for His servant? They frighten you with the idols they set up beside Him. Whomever God sends astray, nothing can guide him.
أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِكافٍ عَبدَهُ وَيُخَوِّفونَكَ بِالَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ وَمَن يُضلِلِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن هادٍ
And whomever God guides, nothing can send him astray. Is God not Almighty, Avenger?
وَمَن يَهدِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن مُضِلٍّ أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِعَزيزٍ ذِى انتِقامٍThey Believe in God Yet, They do not believe what GOD is saying!
If you ask them, "Who created the heavens and the earth?" they will say, "God." Say, "Why then do you set up idols beside God? If God willed any adversity for me, can they relieve such an adversity? And if He willed a blessing for me, can they prevent such a blessing?" Say, "God is sufficient for me." In Him the trusters shall trust.
وَلَئِن سَأَلتَهُم مَن خَلَقَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضَ لَيَقولُنَّ اللَّهُ قُل أَفَرَءَيتُم ما تَدعونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ إِن أَرادَنِىَ اللَّهُ بِضُرٍّ هَل هُنَّ كٰشِفٰتُ ضُرِّهِ أَو أَرادَنى بِرَحمَةٍ هَل هُنَّ مُمسِكٰتُ رَحمَتِهِ قُل حَسبِىَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِ يَتَوَكَّلُ المُتَوَكِّلونَBrother I hope you ponder and study GOD s words carefully.
Say, "O my people, do your best and I will do my best; you will surely find out.
قُل يٰقَومِ اعمَلوا عَلىٰ مَكانَتِكُم إِنّى عٰمِلٌ فَسَوفَ تَعلَمونَ
"(You will find out) who has incurred shameful punishment, and has deserved an eternal retribution."
مَن يَأتيهِ عَذابٌ يُخزيهِ وَيَحِلُّ عَلَيهِ عَذابٌ مُقيمٌ
We have revealed the scripture through you for the people, truthfully. Then, whoever is guided is guided for his own good, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own detriment. You are not their advocate.
إِنّا أَنزَلنا عَلَيكَ الكِتٰبَ لِلنّاسِ بِالحَقِّ فَمَنِ اهتَدىٰ فَلِنَفسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّما يَضِلُّ عَلَيها وَما أَنتَ عَلَيهِم بِوَكيلٍGOD has only revealed the scripture-Qoran- through Muhammed. Where do you see, hadiths and sunnah as part of the scripture, GOD does not mention but one book in his revealed scripture?
I suppose people do not like GOD Alone and His words AloneWhen God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.*
وَإِذا ذُكِرَ اللَّهُ وَحدَهُ اشمَأَزَّت قُلوبُ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِالـٔاخِرَةِ وَإِذا ذُكِرَ الَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ إِذا هُم يَستَبشِرونَSome disagree and say to you they believe in the hereafter and accountability, but give GOD s words the sack.
But I give my words also here, ignore them brother if you wish, but ponder GOD s words.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Thank you for sharing these verses from Chapter 39 of the Quran. I appreciate your emphasis on following the Quran as the ultimate source of guidance while I also consider scholarly works and hadiths. Here is a comprehensive response to the verses you have provided
Verses 27-28 These verses highlight the Quran's use of parables and historical episodes to encourage contemplation. The Quran is revealed in clear and precise Arabic to ensure understanding and guidance. While these verses emphasize the clarity of the Quran's message, they do not negate the importance of seeking knowledge from other scholarly works and hadiths that can provide further insights and understanding.
Verses 29-30 These verses present a comparison between someone who serves multiple conflicting masters and someone who serves only one master. The latter, who follows the Divine Code without ambiguity or conflict, is portrayed as leading a more peaceful life. This illustrates the benefits of adhering to the laws of the One God. However, it is important to note that this metaphorical example does not necessarily imply that following other sources of knowledge alongside the Quran is equivalent to serving conflicting masters. Instead, it emphasizes the peace and clarity that come from following a singular, consistent path.
Verses 31-34 These verses discuss the settlement of disputes and the consequences of actions on the Day of Judgment. It emphasizes that the results of one's deeds will reveal who was right and who was wrong. Those who reject the Divine Laws and deny the truth will face the consequences, while those who uphold the truth will be safe. These verses reaffirm the concept of accountability and the importance of following the right path. It does not explicitly dismiss the value of other sources of knowledge but highlights the significance of aligning with the Divine Code.
Verses 35-36 These verses address the consequences of good and wrong deeds. It is mentioned that good deeds can efface the wrongs committed, and individuals will be rewarded based on the best of their actions. Furthermore, the notion of fearing religious leaders and chieftains is questioned, emphasizing that Allah alone is sufficient as a protector. These verses do not invalidate the use of intellect and reasoning but caution against blind adherence to leaders who may deviate from the Divine Code.
Verses 37-38 In these verses, the concept of using intellect and wisdom is highlighted. Those who utilize their intellect and follow the path indicated by the Divine Code will not be led astray. It questions the power of deities invoked by others, emphasizing that Allah is the ultimate creator and controller of the universe. These verses encourage placing trust in Allah while utilizing intellect and reasoning to distinguish the truth.
Verses 39-40 These verses present a challenge to those who oppose the Divine Code. It suggests that everyone should proceed according to their own programs, and the results will demonstrate the outcomes of their choices. The purpose is to establish the distinction between those who face destruction and those who remain on the right path. This challenge does not negate the use of scholarly works or hadiths but rather seeks to prove the superiority of the Divine Code.
Verses 41-45 These verses affirm the factual basis of the Divine Code and its benefits for humanity. It highlights that those who live by it will benefit, while those who ignore it harm themselves. It also criticizes the ignorance and superstitions of those who turn to idols in times of difficulty. The verses remind people that Allah's Law that governs all, and ultimately, everyone will return to Allah. It emphasizes the supremacy of Allah and challenges beliefs in intercession by others.
In conclusion, while the verses you shared emphasize the importance of adhering to the Quran and the Divine Code, they do not explicitly prohibit people from seeking knowledge. In fact, expanding our understanding through various scholarly works and hadiths can provide valuable insights and enhance our comprehension of the Quranic message. It allows us to explore different interpretations, historical contexts, and scholarly opinions, thereby deepening our understanding of the Quran.
Furthermore, in verse 3928, it is mentioned that the Quran was revealed in the Arabic language. If we are to solely rely on the Quran alone, it becomes imperative to fully grasp the Arabic language in all its intricacies, including grammar, vocabulary, and syntax. This ensures that we can directly engage with the Quran without relying solely on translations, which can sometimes be subjective or prone to interpretation.
By studying Arabic, we can access the Quran in its original language and directly engage with its teachings. It provides a more profound and nuanced understanding of the Quranic text, enabling us to extract its true essence without solely relying on the interpretations of translators.
I am not an arabic person but I lived in Arabia most of my life and I can never claim to have mastered or even come close to Arabic language in order to fully grasp the meaning. However when I read Quran, most of time I do not need a translation but again I will be subjected to my own conclusions which is fine but coming on to this site is for me to gain a broader understanding from other folks and also reading works from other scholars enhance my understanding and next time when I read Quran I may have a different or more concise view, still listening to what my heart says as Guidance is from Allah.
In conclusion, while I respect your choice to focus solely on the Quran, I believe that seeking knowledge from other sources and studying the Arabic language can enrich our understanding and provide a more comprehensive perspective on the Quran's message. It allows us to engage with different interpretations and delve deeper into the teachings of the Quran.
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Brother Fusion.
Do you say the following in response to my replies to you?,Quote"In the spirit of open dialogue and mutual understanding, I would like to suggest that we strive to express our opinions with more humility and respect for others' viewpoints. It's essential to remember that we all have room to learn and grow, and by being open to diverse perspectives, we can foster a more inclusive and enriching environment for discussion. Statements such as take it or leave it or similar ones are not In the spirit of an open debate, let's strive to explore multiple viewpoints rather than resorting to ultimatums.
Thank you for your understanding."
If most of my replies are verses from Qoran, then you may have problems with the verses as well, because the verses are telling us in clear Arabic there is no compromise .The verses are giving two choices-follow GOD Alone and His scripture or follow others, not mix and match or compromise.- Or is the interpretation of the verses wrong?Then you are provided with the Arabic version as well.
Say, "Shall I accept other than God as a Lord and Master, when He is the Initiator of the heavens and the earth, and He feeds but is not fed?" Say, "I am commanded to be the most devoted Muslim, and, `Do not be an idol worshiper.' "
قُل أَغَيرَ اللَّهِ أَتَّخِذُ وَلِيًّا فاطِرِ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ وَهُوَ يُطعِمُ وَلا يُطعَمُ قُل إِنّى أُمِرتُ أَن أَكونَ أَوَّلَ مَن أَسلَمَ وَلا تَكونَنَّ مِنَ المُشرِكينَ
Say, "I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of an awesome day.
قُل إِنّى أَخافُ إِن عَصَيتُ رَبّى عَذابَ يَومٍ عَظيمٍSo does this not mean "do not take Muhammed or any other being as Lord? Are hadiths and Traditional islam not taking Muhammed as " Wally-lord- without his consent?
Is GOD not the only Master-sole authority to make laws and give commands-?Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "God's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside God." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."
قُل أَىُّ شَىءٍ أَكبَرُ شَهٰدَةً قُلِ اللَّهُ شَهيدٌ بَينى وَبَينَكُم وَأوحِىَ إِلَىَّ هٰذَا القُرءانُ لِأُنذِرَكُم بِهِ وَمَن بَلَغَ أَئِنَّكُم لَتَشهَدونَ أَنَّ مَعَ اللَّهِ ءالِهَةً أُخرىٰ قُل لا أَشهَدُ قُل إِنَّما هُوَ إِلٰهٌ وٰحِدٌ وَإِنَّنى بَرىءٌ مِمّا تُشرِكونَThose to whom we have given the scripture recognize this as they recognize their own children. The ones who lose their souls are those who do not believe.
الَّذينَ ءاتَينٰهُمُ الكِتٰبَ يَعرِفونَهُ كَما يَعرِفونَ أَبناءَهُمُ الَّذينَ خَسِروا أَنفُسَهُم فَهُم لا يُؤمِنونَWho is more evil than one who lies about God, or rejects His revelations? The transgressors never succeed.
وَمَن أَظلَمُ مِمَّنِ افتَرىٰ عَلَى اللَّهِ كَذِبًا أَو كَذَّبَ بِـٔايٰتِهِ إِنَّهُ لا يُفلِحُ الظّٰلThis verses proclaims the Qoran as the only source of religious guidance. Those who uphold additional sources, such as Hadith & Sunna (lies attributed to the Prophet), are defined as idolaters.
Of course I respect your stand brother. But I am saddened by your choice because I care about all my fellow humans. I also take on GOD s advice about His revelationsWe know that you may be saddened by what they say. You should know that it is not you that they reject; it is God's revelations that the wicked disregard.
قَد نَعلَمُ إِنَّهُ لَيَحزُنُكَ الَّذى يَقولونَ فَإِنَّهُم لا يُكَذِّبونَكَ وَلٰكِنَّ الظّٰلِمينَ بِـٔايٰتِ اللَّهِ يَجحَدونَ
Messengers before you have been rejected, and they steadfastly persevered in the face of rejection. They were persecuted until our victory came to them. Such is God's system that will never change. The history of My messengers thus sets the precedents for you.
وَلَقَد كُذِّبَت رُسُلٌ مِن قَبلِكَ فَصَبَروا عَلىٰ ما كُذِّبوا وَأوذوا حَتّىٰ أَتىٰهُم نَصرُنا وَلا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمٰتِ اللَّهِ وَلَقَد جاءَكَ مِن نَبَإِى۟ المُرسَلينَ
If their rejection gets to be too much for you, you should know that even if you dug a tunnel through the earth, or climbed a ladder into the sky, and produced a miracle for them (they still would not believe). Had God willed, He could have guided them, unanimously. Therefore, do not behave like the ignorant ones.
وَإِن كانَ كَبُرَ عَلَيكَ إِعراضُهُم فَإِنِ استَطَعتَ أَن تَبتَغِىَ نَفَقًا فِى الأَرضِ أَو سُلَّمًا فِى السَّماءِ فَتَأتِيَهُم بِـٔايَةٍ وَلَو شاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَمَعَهُم عَلَى الهُدىٰ فَلا تَكونَنَّ مِنَ الجٰهِلينَThe messenger did not disobey GOD ,he did not leave us his own revelations with GOD s, he obeyed GOD and delivered only GODs revelation/words.His role is clear here
We do not send the messengers except as deliverers of good news, as well as warners. Those who believe and reform have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
وَما نُرسِلُ المُرسَلينَ إِلّا مُبَشِّرينَ وَمُنذِرينَ فَمَن ءامَنَ وَأَصلَحَ فَلا خَوفٌ عَلَيهِم وَلا هُم يَحزَنونَ
As for those who reject our revelations, they incur the retribution for their wickedness.
وَالَّذينَ كَذَّبوا بِـٔايٰتِنا يَمَسُّهُمُ العَذابُ بِما كانوا يَفسُقونَThe message is GOD s revelations only. Nothing else!!! Look here,clarified without looking elsewhere for other explanations
And preach with this (Qoran) to those who reverence the summoning before their Lord - they have none beside Him as a Lord and Master, nor an intercessor - that they may attain salvation.
وَأَنذِر بِهِ الَّذينَ يَخافونَ أَن يُحشَروا إِلىٰ رَبِّهِم لَيسَ لَهُم مِن دونِهِ وَلِىٌّ وَلا شَفيعٌ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَّقونَHow can we possibly add Hadiths and sunnah to GOD s statement?
However brother, GOD accepts our repentance and is forgiver most Merciful if we correct.When those who believe in our revelations come to you, you shall say, "Salãmun `Alaykum (Peace be upon you). Your Lord has decreed that mercy is His attribute. Thus, anyone among you who commits a transgression out of ignorance, and repents thereafter and reforms, then He is Forgiving, Most Merciful."
وَإِذا جاءَكَ الَّذينَ يُؤمِنونَ بِـٔايٰتِنا فَقُل سَلٰمٌ عَلَيكُم كَتَبَ رَبُّكُم عَلىٰ نَفسِهِ الرَّحمَةَ أَنَّهُ مَن عَمِلَ مِنكُم سوءًا بِجَهٰلَةٍ ثُمَّ تابَ مِن بَعدِهِ وَأَصلَحَ فَأَنَّهُ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ
We thus explain the revelations, and point out the ways of the wicked.
وَكَذٰلِكَ نُفَصِّلُ الـٔايٰتِ وَلِتَستَبينَ سَبيلُ المُجرِمينَ
Say, "I am forbidden from following/serving... what you follow besides God." Say, "I will not follow your opinions. Otherwise, I will go astray, and not be guided."
قُل إِنّى نُهيتُ أَن أَعبُدَ الَّذينَ تَدعونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ قُل لا أَتَّبِعُ أَهواءَكُم قَد ضَلَلتُ إِذًا وَما أَنا۠ مِنَ المُهتَدينَI am amazed at GOD s prophecy about Muhammed s people , Subhann Allah
Your people have rejected this-Qoran-, even though it is the truth. Say, "I am not a guardian over you."
وَكَذَّبَ بِهِ قَومُكَ وَهُوَ الحَقُّ قُل لَستُ عَلَيكُم بِوَكيلٍ
Every prophecy herein will come to pass, and you will surely find out.
لِكُلِّ نَبَإٍ مُستَقَرٌّ وَسَوفَ تَعلَمونَSorry to persist with the warnings, I do that to myself as well.
Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace. -
O dear brother GL...keep reminding wuth book of God... Who knows any silent reader who follows hadith get guided... Not necessarily the person you address to. Isn't it.
But Let's put this way also.. .. With their own medince.. No use.. Coz they accepted they don't understand Quran.. So let's speak in a language and source they in fact do understand..Okay let's follow hadith... But not Bukhari.. Let's learn from Bool Alkafi.. One of the well known books of Shia section of conventional Muslim.. I wonder why the 98 % of entire muslim population don't won't to take that scholarly sources to upgrade their knowledge of Quran... Instead they hate it and call them kafir. So what in fact wrong in looking at their books? If book of Bukhari increase knowledge of Quran to another level since they have spent life long in researching and these Alkafi also same.. What makes these people keep away this source of knowledge away? Why this distinction or rather discrimination?
Well.. The reason and the truth is hadith book not augment the knowledge of Quran but following hadith is MANDATORY and failing to do so he is no more a Sunni Muslim... In fact Not at all muslim.. That's what their modern day scholars say.. Coz they say Obey Allah means Quran Meanwhile obey the Messenger means hadith books yani sunna .. So.. Here scholarly works are not literally meant to increase the understanding of Quran but story is different... So.. Some people here play cat and mouse..Honestly GL.. AL Kafi book has more clarity then bukhari.. They say their chain of transmission is through Ahl AL Bayt.. That is to say from immediate family of prophet... Not people like Abu Huraira and crew.. ..when I read their hadith about wudu they explain in a lengthy way but only four steps as given in Quran..
So why these Sunni people don't ever reach AL Kafi hadith.. O my fellow hadith followers (Sunni) .. Ponder.. What if those AL kafi hadiths are right and Bukhari is wrong.. OMG.. What will happen.. So obey messenger is not done by you by following wrong hadith source ie Bukhari... On top of that Bukhari has thrown away 98% of sunna of mohamed on his own choice, while Mohamed told I left two things "Quran and my sunna" ... Well what if Bukhari destroyed most of them.. O pity... What if Bukhari is a liar and AL Kafi is right while you people never want to consider AL kafi... What a mess..
If anyone want I can link all Shia source of hadith ..kidding.. just google you will get.. Lol..
Let's pray GL these hadith followers choose right hadith to understand Quran through hadith since they don't understand Quran..Let me write in my next thread what seeking knowledge is from Quran...
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SEEKING KNOWLEDGE FROM QURAN...
Let me keep it simple...
God says for example.. Don't you see how we created camel ...
So... Reading this verse of Quran won't pave in roads to seek knowledge... Needless to elaborate but we are recommended to look into his creations and ask questions like what, why, how.. So we know what in fact a camel is... It is not in Quran... Yes.. Of course go for other sources... But approach truth... Explore.. So knowledge is in nature.. That's to in God's creation itself... God that's why say.. Is literate and illiterate same? So pre-gained knowledge is essential to reflect on the creation of nature of God at least to certain extent if not expert. So these we go outside Quran.. Can we learn that only through Quran and get guided... Not all possible.. When there are full of signs in the creations /natures of God for any human who has basic knowledge to reflect, then get convinced that there is God, then why we need the book of God / Guidance of God / Communication of God through a book.. Yes.. Nature will let us know that God does exist if rightly perceive. . But nature / Signs of these beautiful creations won't let us know what we have to do and why... Coz there is no Authority, no expectations. No communication from God to do so... That's why why God has communicated through Messengers to tell people what to do and what not to do to achieve a target.. That is a reward... Purpose of creation is explained.. No guesswork.. What if God never communicated to human through Messengers. . He sent us to this earth and just think looking at nature His existence... What for? That's nonsense... We will end up clueless why we have to believe in God in that way while God is hiding without any mesaage... Communication is key.. And God communicated and don't replace God's communication with human infusion... If you want human infusion there are lot of human invited religions solely.. Follow them coz they also provide good knowledge.. Why only approach Quran then..? And to understand it Hadith...
So seeking knowledge is encouraged and it is must.. otherwise human will never be able to perceive truth... But God's verses speak truth and human has no authority to change it...
After all.. You know why this Quran is teaching us every day a new thing coz God has kept this Quran in a way so that life long human keep thinking about God and keep looking at His book... Coz life long study will not be sufficient to get everything in Quran.. Coz it keeps teaching.. So it means we keep occupied in remembrance of God.. Life is a journey and accessing knowledge through Quran is a journey.. Remember through Quran... That's to say understanding God's communication not human communication...
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Hadiths have so much contradictory statements that it leaves us in doubt
Example
How long after revelation commenced did the Prophet (pbuh) live in Mecca and Medina?
There are a number of hadith in Bukhari and Muslim on this subject.peace, to everyone what's the difference in words used?
• سَنَةٍ (sanah or sanatin) - "year" from root س ن و (s-n-w)
• سِنِينَ (sinīna) - years plural of “سَنَة" (sanah)1247 قال said تزرعون thou planting سبع seven سنىن years (lunar/solar?)
• عَامٍ (aam or aamin) - "year" from root word ع م و (a-m-w)
plural is "أَعْوَامٍ" (a'wamin), dual عَامَيْنِ (aamayni)1249 ثم furthermore ىاتى bringeth من from بعد after ذلك such عام year (lunar/solar?)
3114 وفصله and separation (breastfeeding) his (said person) فى in عامىن year two (lunar/solar?)
Is GOD not the only Master-sole authority
peace why post Arabic without verse numbers or which words you’re translating to what unless to make difficult for those perusing the site who are unfamiliar and explain without study of language close to that time period e.g., poetry, inscriptions, hadith etc., how to recite anything including Fatiha?
http//tanzil.net/#14 hit play button to recite
Owner Māliki ? single occurrence
OR
Sovereign Maliki ?
https//youtu.be/-PqP0BCiTlE4 occurrences
1272 صواع cup الملك the sovereign (king)
1276 دىن creed الملك the sovereign (king)
621 الملك the sovereign
1142 ملك sovereign الناس the peoplehttps//youtu.be/gMVvpovqa9w
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Salam all hadith followers .. Of course fellow believers Salam yo you as well..
I know you(hadithers /Sunnis ) won't like what I write, perhaps you despise what I write coz you love what you do... Nevertheless, we remind and reminder benefits who is seeking truly guidance...
OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY THE MESSENGER...
This is what makes you believe in hadith books.. Am I right?... Okay fine..
Here OBEY is crucial word.. What is the opposite of Obey.. Lol Yes in simple language Disobey... Okay then.. let's figure out how to Disobey Allah and disobey the messenger...
Suppose if I don't believe in Allah, then in fact I disobey Allah, not at all needed Messenger ... But point here is not about disbeliiving people.. Focus is on those who believe .. Either God says directly O you who believed, Obey Allah and obey the Messenger or this phrase is a continuation of O you who believed from previous verses.. So.. Instruction is for those believed and not mushrik or kafir or anyone else.. So obedience is expected from believers..
So how those who believed, disobey Allah and the Messenger? Let's sort out..
Suppose when God says don't eat up orphans properties unjustly.. This is a message /risalah and it is a verse literally of God.. So if one listening to it from the mouth/voice/communication of the messenger and implement that in action by not eating up the wealth of orphans. Then he has done two things distinctively.. Yes.. He obeyed Allah and the Messenger.. How. He listened to the messenger first not denied him when he recited the verse.. So obeyed the Messenger.. But later put that in practice.. So obeyed God coz message is from God.. Got me?
That's why as I explained in my previous thread verse 480 those who obeys the messenger, indeed obeyed the God. .. How can Allah put it in reverse order? Order is to Obey Allah and obey messenger but in Action it should come exactly like in verse 480..Nobody can / would obey Allah unless he obeys His message..If still not clear let me put in different angle..
God spoke to malaika and told to sujud to Adam.. You know that.. A Mesaage without any mediator /messenger.. But had the message to sujud came through a Messenger(typically) then iblees disobeyed the Messenger and Disobeyed God.. Had the message come from a messenger and iblees obeyed the message and fulfilled sujud to Adam, then iblees obeyed the messenger and obeyed God..
Here issue for you guys is where the message comes from.. And through whom the message comes.. Still not getting.. ?Let me put this way if so.. .
Suppose no messengers at all. God sent down written complete physical book (the same quran) came to a town in Arabia and everyone witnessed that complete physical book came down through an angel and angel left.. So people witnessed. So obey messenger factor is not anymore an issue here.. Coz no human messenger is involved.. What you have to obey now in this scenario if you happen to read the book which came from the heaven..? Obey God alone. Is it not God alone. ? Any doubt? God is the only one to obey and that's why He communicates with us? No other reason..Still not able to grasp obey Allah and obey the Messenger..
Okay let me put it this way.. Everyone knows Musa's people and slaughter a cow.. Don't you.. Yes refer verses 267-71.. He messenger is Musa.. Mesaage provider is Allah.. Agree? Who are to obey? Yes people of Musa.. What they say.. O Musa call upon your Lord, let him clarify.. Roughly.. In that manner so how messages were passed to Musa and Musa revealed them to people. Never Musa gave his own opinion.. Coz they said call upon your Lord. It means they knew Musa is the messenger of God who is a mediator to herald the word of God to people unless and otherwise no message at all will come to them from God.. So in the end clear information came from God and Musa delivered and people received... So literally They obeyed Allah and the Messenger.. Without obeying the messenger they can never obey Allah.. It doesn't mean they obey Musa (person) .. No way near truth that is ... If they want to obey Musa then they don't want to say call upon your Lord.. Every time people won't say call upon your Lord. But in reality God knows what to send and God sends what He wants and Messengers receive them and they herald the message to people. Obey or not obey up to us.People O people! what's wrong with your logic. Is God and prophet Mohamed same, in order for God to say Obey Allah and obey Mohamed.. Is that the Mission of God? Or. .Obey Allah and obey Musa. But that's what you have taken.. Here you completly disregarding the fact that a messenger plays a role of heralding the message of God so that people give a thought to the message and obey God..
Read again and again perhaps God opens at least half a dozen people's mind who read what I have written.. ...
Yes.. I know blinded perhaps hearts are sealed.. But not everyone's hearts are sealed.. Coz we opened heart while following hadith or while being Sunni .. So not all people are same.. Not all people whose hearts are sealed.. So reflect if you want to obey your Master / Lord / Creator / Sustainer / Ilah . . -
Salam all hadith followers .. Of course fellow believers Salam yo you as well..
I know you(hadithers /Sunnis ) won't like what I write, perhaps you despise what I write coz you love what you do... Nevertheless, we remind and reminder benefits who is seeking truly guidance...
OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY THE MESSENGER...
This is what makes you believe in hadith books.. Am I right?... Okay fine..
Here OBEY is crucial word.. What is the opposite of Obey.. Lol Yes in simple language Disobey... Okay then.. let's figure out how to Disobey Allah and disobey the messenger...
Suppose if I don't believe in Allah, then in fact I disobey Allah, not at all needed Messenger ... But point here is not about disbeliiving people.. Focus is on those who believe .. Either God says directly O you who believed, Obey Allah and obey the Messenger or this phrase is a continuation of O you who believed from previous verses.. So.. Instruction is for those believed and not mushrik or kafir or anyone else.. So obedience is expected from believers..
So how those who believed, disobey Allah and the Messenger? Let's sort out..
Suppose when God says don't eat up orphans properties unjustly.. This is a message /risalah and it is a verse literally of God.. So if one listening to it from the mouth/voice/communication of the messenger and implement that in action by not eating up the wealth of orphans. Then he has done two things distinctively.. Yes.. He obeyed Allah and the Messenger.. How. He listened to the messenger first not denied him when he recited the verse.. So obeyed the Messenger.. But later put that in practice.. So obeyed God coz message is from God.. Got me?
That's why as I explained in my previous thread verse 480 those who obeys the messenger, indeed obeyed the God. .. How can Allah put it in reverse order? Order is to Obey Allah and obey messenger but in Action it should come exactly like in verse 480..Nobody can / would obey Allah unless he obeys His message..If still not clear let me put in different angle..
God spoke to malaika and told to sujud to Adam.. You know that.. A Mesaage without any mediator /messenger.. But had the message to sujud came through a Messenger(typically) then iblees disobeyed the Messenger and Disobeyed God.. Had the message come from a messenger and iblees obeyed the message and fulfilled sujud to Adam, then iblees obeyed the messenger and obeyed God..
Here issue for you guys is where the message comes from.. And through whom the message comes.. Still not getting.. ?Let me put this way if so.. .
Suppose no messengers at all. God sent down written complete physical book (the same quran) came to a town in Arabia and everyone witnessed that complete physical book came down through an angel and angel left.. So people witnessed. So obey messenger factor is not anymore an issue here.. Coz no human messenger is involved.. What you have to obey now in this scenario if you happen to read the book which came from the heaven..? Obey God alone. Is it not God alone. ? Any doubt? God is the only one to obey and that's why He communicates with us? No other reason..Still not able to grasp obey Allah and obey the Messenger..
Okay let me put it this way.. Everyone knows Musa's people and slaughter a cow.. Don't you.. Yes refer verses 267-71.. He messenger is Musa.. Mesaage provider is Allah.. Agree? Who are to obey? Yes people of Musa.. What they say.. O Musa call upon your Lord, let him clarify.. Roughly.. In that manner so how messages were passed to Musa and Musa revealed them to people. Never Musa gave his own opinion.. Coz they said call upon your Lord. It means they knew Musa is the messenger of God who is a mediator to herald the word of God to people unless and otherwise no message at all will come to them from God.. So in the end clear information came from God and Musa delivered and people received... So literally They obeyed Allah and the Messenger.. Without obeying the messenger they can never obey Allah.. It doesn't mean they obey Musa (person) .. No way near truth that is ... If they want to obey Musa then they don't want to say call upon your Lord.. Every time people won't say call upon your Lord. But in reality God knows what to send and God sends what He wants and Messengers receive them and they herald the message to people. Obey or not obey up to us.People O people! what's wrong with your logic. Is God and prophet Mohamed same, in order for God to say Obey Allah and obey Mohamed.. Is that the Mission of God? Or. .Obey Allah and obey Musa. But that's what you have taken.. Here you completly disregarding the fact that a messenger plays a role of heralding the message of God so that people give a thought to the message and obey God..
Read again and again perhaps God opens at least half a dozen people's mind who read what I have written.. ...
Yes.. I know blinded perhaps hearts are sealed.. But not everyone's hearts are sealed.. Coz we opened heart while following hadith or while being Sunni .. So not all people are same.. Not all people whose hearts are sealed.. So reflect if you want to obey your Master / Lord / Creator / Sustainer / Ilah . .Peace..
Whenever I have time, I watch some videos in which some groups of sunnis interrogate those who follow Quran alone in public places.. If you search in YouTube by typing hadith rejectors or Quranist etc you will find such videos..
These sunnis in such videos they have set of questions pre-planned to aim at those followers of Quran.. But it is commendable every follower of Quran alone(mislims) with modesty and they reply within Quran .. But these sunnis never allow them to speak..
One of the foremost trump card these sunni debators ask from them is.. Quran and hadith came from same people and then why you believe in Quran and reject hadith?
Do you realise how nonsensical the question itself...Where is the proof first of all, that Quran and Hadith came from same people? Just sheer assumptions.. With what evidence you say that? To prove that also they refer hadiths... So hilarious... They make a complaint and they prove it from their own hadith stating prophet said Prophet said.. Bla bla... Prove it outside Hadith that Quran and hadith came from same people, since the concern itself about quran and hadith, how can you take Hadith to substantiate your claim..
It is like in the market fake currency and of course genuine currency... Can one say fake and genuine currency both came from same people. Though both in the market?
Genuine never comes from those who are faking.. Genuine has its origin.. Though it is in the hand and of those who fake.. Common sense is, to fake you need the genuine.. Can anyone fake without genuine of its identical. Otherwise make a new invention/fabrication... Hadith is fake and Quran is genuine..and fake has its origin and genuine has its origin.. Not both from same..Ask with your own logic O Sunni Muslims... If hadith and Quran came from the same people, then logically question why then you need authentication for hadith and NO need any authentication for Quran? But both came from same people as you claim. What a contradiction. Why differentiation? Hmm... You yourself knew something fishy in hadith. Don't you? Coz make it or break it, you guys also have knowledge. Right.. That prompted authentication is required.. Fine.. So.. Eventhough as you claim it came from same people, you are not ready to trust the same people literally.. That's why authentication factor cones into picture. That's why your ulamas authenticate time and time again hadiths.. So why do you say Quran came from same people.. Ha? . Some filthy, Satanic people also involved in hadith... So Quran didn't come from same.. Coz Quran is different and no need authentication but God has password protected it.. Yes God may not have preserved physical quran which existed eversince and it is impossible.. Bring me a single physical Quran which always preserved from the hand of prophet itself.. After all it is paper and prone to be faded off.. But God has preserved His reminder and that stands high and handsome.. Lol
Still you want to say Quran and hadith came from same people. .
Both came from same people is so fallible. It is like saying Ibrahim came from an idolworshiping father so Ibrahim also idolworshiper. People are not same .. Just coz she(Phorou wife) lived in King pharou palace she was not obeying pharou but it was only show.. Though the one who hid lived with pharou, he is not same people.. Yes.. Same people lived in same palace. But not same nature of people..Suppose examination department print exam papers.. Just coz one who work in exam department leaks a paper, can we call it was leaked from examination Department as a whole. So Did it came from same people.. ? People are not same. Only those who does are wrong..
Or why you Sunni Muslims say bible erroneous and not worthy following.. While it came from same people of Jesus but when it comes to hadith different logic .. Wow.. Just coz it came from same people in your assumptions it won't become truth .. Note (we also say many things in bible is wrong like we say hadith is wrong)
So don't bring as evidence through your speculations that Quran came from same people.. Quran never ever came from same people who brought hadith.. Coz truth will never come from satanic inventors.. Truth only come from true/genuine sources... Quran is not word of Satan.. Not a word of poet either...
Note it is your hadith it says Quran came into book form and written by such and such people but not Allah says it .. Keep your hadith and assumptions to your evidecce not for us.. We bring evidence only from Quran with logic..
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Salam..
Everytime God reminds me I will come with the same logic here to remind people coz I am sure there are at least half a dozen people in this forum who are looking guidance only with Quran though they may be classified sunni Muslims by birth. So let me remind and let those who reflect go ahead with their willingness.. Let God guide..
We have a clear verse in Quran in which the immediate people of Mohamed said "They hear they OBEYED" ... reflect on this statement.. they don't say "We SEE we obey"... If theyin fact followed sunna then they should have said "We heard and Seen and we obeyed" There is massive difference to hearing ones words live and seeing a person live.. So.. Sunna can only be SEEN and cannot be heard... If you hear a sunna that can only be a hearsay.. So according to Quran those followers of Quran, only Heard verses of God and they Obeyed.. 2285 and 2451 proves their statement..
Once they have already obeyed hearing verses of God, then why they need Sunna to see how Prophet did... Is there any verse in Quran stating "How to do" and for that Prophet is the instructor... DIY Do It Yourself ... "How to" is common to the one who was revealed the message and for the recipients of message.. They all should do what QURAN says.. No point of asking how to from Messenger since how to do or what to do is explained by God alone .. Quran was not sent to COPY and PASTE prophet but Quran was sent to follow by every individual with the guidance of God by reflecting upon its verses...Let me turn to popular phrase again..
Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and if they turn away, then your duty is only to convey .. Refer 6512
Similarly.. God restructuring the same verse into... Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and if they turn away Allah doesn't love disbelivers... Refer 332
So let's ponder.. Whether obey Allah and obey the Messenger is only meant for live people with living messenger or all time.
Let me clarify.. After saying Obey Allah and obey the Messenger... Allah says IF THEY TURN AWAY... THEN what? Yes.. If they turn away your(Messenger's) duty is only to convey...so this is happening while delivering.. This absolutely proves the phrase(Obey Allah and obey the Messenger) is only for those who were living with living Messenger.. That's why God says if they turn away from obeying then just you do what you are commanded that's to deliver/convey the message.. Their Turning away cannot stop the Mission of God and the Messenger cannot cease.. Their obedience is not compulsion. .. Let them or let them not.. Who cares.. But Allah has delivered.. That's evidence against them on the Day of judgement... So this obey Allah and obey the Messenger not at all relevant to us.. What is relevant to us is the pure message and just follow and in fact you obey God and you not turned away blind and deaf from message..
Now let me explain the other part " .... If they turn away, THEN ALLAH DOESN'T LOVE DISBELIVERS.. " ...
so what literally we get if one doesn't obey Allah and the Messenger then he is a DISBELIEVER.. That's why Allah said immediately after the phrase Allah doesn't love disbelievrs..
so.. Those who lived with Mohamed if they TURNED AWAY from obeying Allah and the Messenger then they were Disbelilievers... Yes or No? God is verdict.. Yes..
So how to apply that scenario to us.. Yes.. If we don't obey Allah and not follow His Quran /Mesaage which was placed on the Messenger THEN indeed we TURNED AWAY.. Thus we are disbelivers and Allah doesn't love disbelievrs.. That's why God says those who don't believe in the verses of God are disbelievers... So simple...So it is not coz one become disbeliever for not accepting Another human book in which alleged hadith and sunna is detailed, but one became / becomes disbeliver for turning away from God's message...
I am not saying this God is telling in His book...
Verify verses..Thank you.
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379 "It is not for a human that Allah should give him the Scripture and wisdom and prophethood and then he would say to the people, "Be servants to me rather than Allah ," but "Be scholars / Masters (Rabbaniyun) in that you teach of the Scripture and in that you study "
The above verse is verse exposes lots of misconceptions.... Don't be like a servant to Prophet... But become a Master in the BOOK (quran and God revealed books) coz they TEACH the book and they STUDY... nothing else... Book is what all about... God's guidance is on the book.. If you look for it somewhere else that is the path of Satan...
So those who master the book of God.. Don't be silent.. Teach people.. And you keep studying... Let people reflect... Coz as verse chapter 373 says .."Inna AlHuda, Huda Allah" .. "Verily The Guidance, guidance of God".. So wisdom is gift of Allah, seek for it and get the guidance from Allah.. If you have it.. Teach the Quran, only Quran and keep studying... Preach people the Quran and remind them... Let God guide people. You just simply relax by delivering what you understand ...dont ever listen to those who preach books other than God's. ..never will Allah mercy decends on you.. Mercy is the Quran and not human books..Verse is clear Be a Master in what you teach and in what you study... Spend loads of time day and night until God teaches with truth...
Thank you..
