Quran through Hadith

jkhan

"And most of them believe not in Allah except that they attribute partners (unto Him).

Brother GL...
Again I reiterate you... What was the duty of any Messenger? Yes.. Deliver without hiding or curtailing or exaggerating anything as it was revealed to him... God explains and God guides.. Then God has communicated and Messengers had done their duty... But every prophet was human so they can advice away from verses but within the their understanding of the message... Advice and kind words are not direct verses of God . . For instance one advises another to keep away from idols and it will not take you anywhere.. . God's message is in it but not God's direct verses... Yes brother advise what is true and right and remind with God's verses and don't feel bad for anyone. But make dua for such you feel bad.. Like Ibrahim follow his way(millah).. But don't feel dissapointed if they don't listen to God's verses ...

Those who follow hadith are like...
We worship other gods and deities just to get close to the God... Coz without worshipping these gods /deities they don't feel or they don't know how to near the real God...
Idol worship is so much hidden in man's thought and action. It is not literally a carved idol but anything which they give importance other than the God in place of God.. Even ones ego or desire or doing things against God's command (6121) can be (shirk) idol worship...

If hadith followers think and accepted they can only near God and His verses through Hadith book then let them try near God... But it will be far from nearing... But they go far away from God.. Can anyone near with deities to God..? No way.. Would Allah accept even though their intention is to near God.. ? As below verse says..

"We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. "

One can near God from God Himself...

When I was reading Yesterday the verse of spider... It states roughly.. God's parable.. It says None will understand it except those who are knowledgeable. . So. . Quran is not open to all. Only a guidance those Allah willing... As 22 states guidance to those who fear God.. So those who not getting guidance from the Book look for other sources but in vain... Like Jews said.. We don't understand Torah without Tulmad... It is obvious Torah didnt guide them but Talmud did. Are you Hadith followers different to Jews? No.. Same.. We don't understand Quran without Hadith.. How both of you understand Talmud and Hadith while not understand Torah and Quran..

Every hadith follower reflect.. If you have knowledge... Let me advise you with this..
When group of jinn came to the place of Mohamed.. They listened to the verses of Quran and they left saying full of guidance in order to preach their community... They didn't wait for hadith or sunna... What they all wanted is God's verses.. What they said is full of guidance like the book of Musa.. They knew it is enough...

brother GL...
My example.. Take it or leave it up to you...
Quran is like a football field in it players playing to score and working hard... Hadith is like spectators... They can never score being a spectator...
Even you score or not one has to be in the field.. If you score you are happy.. But if you could not no problem.. Still you were in the field playing.. Those who scored understood quran in depth.. But those who couldn't score still believed in Quran.. Coz all of them played in the football field not they were spectators... No one who played in the field are losers though their scores are less.. But losers are those who were spectators never wanted to play... But they were only interested in it (Quran) for fun..
Hope you got the parable in its true sense...

Thank you... May Allah guide those who deserve..

Fusion

Dear GL and JKHAN,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspectives on the role of the Quran and the inclusion of hadiths in our understanding of Islam. I appreciate your passion for seeking the truth and following the guidance of the Quran.

I would like to clarify my position. While I believe that the Quran is the ultimate source of guidance for Muslims, I also value the importance of critical thinking and studying scholarly works, including hadiths, to gain a deeper understanding of the context and teachings of Islam. I approach these additional sources with an open mind, always keeping the Quran as my primary point of reference.

GL, you mentioned that the Quran contains no ambiguity and does not require additional explanations. I agree that the Quran provides clear guidance, but I also acknowledge that the interpretation of its verses can sometimes be complex and subject to different understandings. Therefore, studying hadiths and scholarly works can provide valuable insights into the context and application of the Quranic teachings.

JKHAN, you expressed the view that following hadiths can be likened to idol worship and that the Quran alone is sufficient for guidance. While I respect your perspective, I believe that hadiths, when scrutinized critically and in line with the Quran, can offer valuable historical and practical insights into the life and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

In conclusion, I would like to request that you both respect my personal approach to studying Islam, which involves considering multiple sources while giving priority to the Quran. I am open to engaging in discussions and seeking a deeper understanding of our faith. Let us continue our dialogue with respect and humility, focusing on our shared goal of seeking the truth.

In the spirit of open dialogue and mutual understanding, I would like to suggest that we strive to express our opinions with more humility and respect for others' viewpoints. It's essential to remember that we all have room to learn and grow, and by being open to diverse perspectives, we can foster a more inclusive and enriching environment for discussion. Statements such as take it or leave it or similar ones are not In the spirit of an open debate, let's strive to explore multiple viewpoints rather than resorting to ultimatums.

Thank you for your understanding.

Fusion

Peace Fusion.
I can only give you more verses,, let us see what you say this time?

Quran No Ambiguity, Does not need Hadith or other explanations.

We have cited for the people every kind of example in this Quran, that they may take heed.
وَلَقَد ضَرَبنا لِلنّاسِ فى هٰذَا القُرءانِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَذَكَّرونَ
An Arabic Quran, without any ambiguity, that they may be righteous.
قُرءانًا عَرَبِيًّا غَيرَ ذى عِوَجٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَّقونَ
God cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners (Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source (Quran). Are they the same? Praise be to God; most of them do not know.
ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا رَجُلًا فيهِ شُرَكاءُ مُتَشٰكِسونَ وَرَجُلًا سَلَمًا لِرَجُلٍ هَل يَستَوِيانِ مَثَلًا الحَمدُ لِلَّهِ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَ

Hadith A Gross Blasphemy, Muhammed left only Qoran.No hadiths or Qoran explanations or any words from him in A book to his followers

You (Muhammad) will surely die, just like they will die.
إِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ وَإِنَّهُم مَيِّتونَ
On the Day of Resurrection, before your Lord, you people will feud with one another.
ثُمَّ إِنَّكُم يَومَ القِيٰمَةِ عِندَ رَبِّكُم تَختَصِمونَ
Who is more evil than one who attributes lies to God, while disbelieving in the truth that has come to him? Is Hell not a just requital for the disbelievers?
فَمَن أَظلَمُ مِمَّن كَذَبَ عَلَى اللَّهِ وَكَذَّبَ بِالصِّدقِ إِذ جاءَهُ أَلَيسَ فى جَهَنَّمَ مَثوًى لِلكٰفِرينَ

Quran Absolute Truth. Hadiths are fabrications most of them lies about the prophet.

As for those who promote the truth, and believe therein, they are the righteous.
وَالَّذى جاءَ بِالصِّدقِ وَصَدَّقَ بِهِ أُولٰئِكَ هُمُ المُتَّقونَ
They will get everything they wish, at their Lord. Such is the reward for the righteous.
لَهُم ما يَشاءونَ عِندَ رَبِّهِم ذٰلِكَ جَزاءُ المُحسِنينَ
God remits their sinful works, and rewards them generously for their good works.
لِيُكَفِّرَ اللَّهُ عَنهُم أَسوَأَ الَّذى عَمِلوا وَيَجزِيَهُم أَجرَهُم بِأَحسَنِ الَّذى كانوا يَعمَلونَ

Profound Question, Do you need hadiths or words /explanations of men, or Is GOD and His explanations enough?

Is God not sufficient for His servant? They frighten you with the idols they set up beside Him. Whomever God sends astray, nothing can guide him.
أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِكافٍ عَبدَهُ وَيُخَوِّفونَكَ بِالَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ وَمَن يُضلِلِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن هادٍ
And whomever God guides, nothing can send him astray. Is God not Almighty, Avenger?
وَمَن يَهدِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن مُضِلٍّ أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِعَزيزٍ ذِى انتِقامٍ

They Believe in God Yet, They do not believe what GOD is saying!

If you ask them, "Who created the heavens and the earth?" they will say, "God." Say, "Why then do you set up idols beside God? If God willed any adversity for me, can they relieve such an adversity? And if He willed a blessing for me, can they prevent such a blessing?" Say, "God is sufficient for me." In Him the trusters shall trust.
وَلَئِن سَأَلتَهُم مَن خَلَقَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضَ لَيَقولُنَّ اللَّهُ قُل أَفَرَءَيتُم ما تَدعونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ إِن أَرادَنِىَ اللَّهُ بِضُرٍّ هَل هُنَّ كٰشِفٰتُ ضُرِّهِ أَو أَرادَنى بِرَحمَةٍ هَل هُنَّ مُمسِكٰتُ رَحمَتِهِ قُل حَسبِىَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِ يَتَوَكَّلُ المُتَوَكِّلونَ

Brother I hope you ponder and study GOD s words carefully.

Say, "O my people, do your best and I will do my best; you will surely find out.
قُل يٰقَومِ اعمَلوا عَلىٰ مَكانَتِكُم إِنّى عٰمِلٌ فَسَوفَ تَعلَمونَ
"(You will find out) who has incurred shameful punishment, and has deserved an eternal retribution."
مَن يَأتيهِ عَذابٌ يُخزيهِ وَيَحِلُّ عَلَيهِ عَذابٌ مُقيمٌ
We have revealed the scripture through you for the people, truthfully. Then, whoever is guided is guided for his own good, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own detriment. You are not their advocate.
إِنّا أَنزَلنا عَلَيكَ الكِتٰبَ لِلنّاسِ بِالحَقِّ فَمَنِ اهتَدىٰ فَلِنَفسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَإِنَّما يَضِلُّ عَلَيها وَما أَنتَ عَلَيهِم بِوَكيلٍ

GOD has only revealed the scripture-Qoran- through Muhammed. Where do you see, hadiths and sunnah as part of the scripture, GOD does not mention but one book in his revealed scripture?
I suppose people do not like GOD Alone and His words Alone

When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.*
وَإِذا ذُكِرَ اللَّهُ وَحدَهُ اشمَأَزَّت قُلوبُ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِالـٔاخِرَةِ وَإِذا ذُكِرَ الَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ إِذا هُم يَستَبشِرونَ

Some disagree and say to you they believe in the hereafter and accountability, but give GOD s words the sack.
But I give my words also here, ignore them brother if you wish, but ponder GOD s words.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thank you for sharing these verses from Chapter 39 of the Quran. I appreciate your emphasis on following the Quran as the ultimate source of guidance while I also consider scholarly works and hadiths. Here is a comprehensive response to the verses you have provided

Verses 27-28 These verses highlight the Quran's use of parables and historical episodes to encourage contemplation. The Quran is revealed in clear and precise Arabic to ensure understanding and guidance. While these verses emphasize the clarity of the Quran's message, they do not negate the importance of seeking knowledge from other scholarly works and hadiths that can provide further insights and understanding.

Verses 29-30 These verses present a comparison between someone who serves multiple conflicting masters and someone who serves only one master. The latter, who follows the Divine Code without ambiguity or conflict, is portrayed as leading a more peaceful life. This illustrates the benefits of adhering to the laws of the One God. However, it is important to note that this metaphorical example does not necessarily imply that following other sources of knowledge alongside the Quran is equivalent to serving conflicting masters. Instead, it emphasizes the peace and clarity that come from following a singular, consistent path.

Verses 31-34 These verses discuss the settlement of disputes and the consequences of actions on the Day of Judgment. It emphasizes that the results of one's deeds will reveal who was right and who was wrong. Those who reject the Divine Laws and deny the truth will face the consequences, while those who uphold the truth will be safe. These verses reaffirm the concept of accountability and the importance of following the right path. It does not explicitly dismiss the value of other sources of knowledge but highlights the significance of aligning with the Divine Code.

Verses 35-36 These verses address the consequences of good and wrong deeds. It is mentioned that good deeds can efface the wrongs committed, and individuals will be rewarded based on the best of their actions. Furthermore, the notion of fearing religious leaders and chieftains is questioned, emphasizing that Allah alone is sufficient as a protector. These verses do not invalidate the use of intellect and reasoning but caution against blind adherence to leaders who may deviate from the Divine Code.

Verses 37-38 In these verses, the concept of using intellect and wisdom is highlighted. Those who utilize their intellect and follow the path indicated by the Divine Code will not be led astray. It questions the power of deities invoked by others, emphasizing that Allah is the ultimate creator and controller of the universe. These verses encourage placing trust in Allah while utilizing intellect and reasoning to distinguish the truth.

Verses 39-40 These verses present a challenge to those who oppose the Divine Code. It suggests that everyone should proceed according to their own programs, and the results will demonstrate the outcomes of their choices. The purpose is to establish the distinction between those who face destruction and those who remain on the right path. This challenge does not negate the use of scholarly works or hadiths but rather seeks to prove the superiority of the Divine Code.

Verses 41-45 These verses affirm the factual basis of the Divine Code and its benefits for humanity. It highlights that those who live by it will benefit, while those who ignore it harm themselves. It also criticizes the ignorance and superstitions of those who turn to idols in times of difficulty. The verses remind people that Allah's Law that governs all, and ultimately, everyone will return to Allah. It emphasizes the supremacy of Allah and challenges beliefs in intercession by others.

In conclusion, while the verses you shared emphasize the importance of adhering to the Quran and the Divine Code, they do not explicitly prohibit people from seeking knowledge. In fact, expanding our understanding through various scholarly works and hadiths can provide valuable insights and enhance our comprehension of the Quranic message. It allows us to explore different interpretations, historical contexts, and scholarly opinions, thereby deepening our understanding of the Quran.

Furthermore, in verse 3928, it is mentioned that the Quran was revealed in the Arabic language. If we are to solely rely on the Quran alone, it becomes imperative to fully grasp the Arabic language in all its intricacies, including grammar, vocabulary, and syntax. This ensures that we can directly engage with the Quran without relying solely on translations, which can sometimes be subjective or prone to interpretation.

By studying Arabic, we can access the Quran in its original language and directly engage with its teachings. It provides a more profound and nuanced understanding of the Quranic text, enabling us to extract its true essence without solely relying on the interpretations of translators.

I am not an arabic person but I lived in Arabia most of my life and I can never claim to have mastered or even come close to Arabic language in order to fully grasp the meaning. However when I read Quran, most of time I do not need a translation but again I will be subjected to my own conclusions which is fine but coming on to this site is for me to gain a broader understanding from other folks and also reading works from other scholars enhance my understanding and next time when I read Quran I may have a different or more concise view, still listening to what my heart says as Guidance is from Allah.

In conclusion, while I respect your choice to focus solely on the Quran, I believe that seeking knowledge from other sources and studying the Arabic language can enrich our understanding and provide a more comprehensive perspective on the Quran's message. It allows us to engage with different interpretations and delve deeper into the teachings of the Quran.

good_logic

Brother Fusion.
Do you say the following in response to my replies to you?,Quote

"In the spirit of open dialogue and mutual understanding, I would like to suggest that we strive to express our opinions with more humility and respect for others' viewpoints. It's essential to remember that we all have room to learn and grow, and by being open to diverse perspectives, we can foster a more inclusive and enriching environment for discussion. Statements such as take it or leave it or similar ones are not In the spirit of an open debate, let's strive to explore multiple viewpoints rather than resorting to ultimatums.

Thank you for your understanding."

If most of my replies are verses from Qoran, then you may have problems with the verses as well, because the verses are telling us in clear Arabic there is no compromise .The verses are giving two choices-follow GOD Alone and His scripture or follow others, not mix and match or compromise.- Or is the interpretation of the verses wrong?Then you are provided with the Arabic version as well.

Say, "Shall I accept other than God as a Lord and Master, when He is the Initiator of the heavens and the earth, and He feeds but is not fed?" Say, "I am commanded to be the most devoted Muslim, and, `Do not be an idol worshiper.' "
قُل أَغَيرَ اللَّهِ أَتَّخِذُ وَلِيًّا فاطِرِ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ وَهُوَ يُطعِمُ وَلا يُطعَمُ قُل إِنّى أُمِرتُ أَن أَكونَ أَوَّلَ مَن أَسلَمَ وَلا تَكونَنَّ مِنَ المُشرِكينَ
Say, "I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of an awesome day.
قُل إِنّى أَخافُ إِن عَصَيتُ رَبّى عَذابَ يَومٍ عَظيمٍ

So does this not mean "do not take Muhammed or any other being as Lord? Are hadiths and Traditional islam not taking Muhammed as " Wally-lord- without his consent?
Is GOD not the only Master-sole authority to make laws and give commands-?

Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "God's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside God." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."
قُل أَىُّ شَىءٍ أَكبَرُ شَهٰدَةً قُلِ اللَّهُ شَهيدٌ بَينى وَبَينَكُم وَأوحِىَ إِلَىَّ هٰذَا القُرءانُ لِأُنذِرَكُم بِهِ وَمَن بَلَغَ أَئِنَّكُم لَتَشهَدونَ أَنَّ مَعَ اللَّهِ ءالِهَةً أُخرىٰ قُل لا أَشهَدُ قُل إِنَّما هُوَ إِلٰهٌ وٰحِدٌ وَإِنَّنى بَرىءٌ مِمّا تُشرِكونَ

Those to whom we have given the scripture recognize this as they recognize their own children. The ones who lose their souls are those who do not believe.
الَّذينَ ءاتَينٰهُمُ الكِتٰبَ يَعرِفونَهُ كَما يَعرِفونَ أَبناءَهُمُ الَّذينَ خَسِروا أَنفُسَهُم فَهُم لا يُؤمِنونَ

Who is more evil than one who lies about God, or rejects His revelations? The transgressors never succeed.
وَمَن أَظلَمُ مِمَّنِ افتَرىٰ عَلَى اللَّهِ كَذِبًا أَو كَذَّبَ بِـٔايٰتِهِ إِنَّهُ لا يُفلِحُ الظّٰل

This verses proclaims the Qoran as the only source of religious guidance. Those who uphold additional sources, such as Hadith & Sunna (lies attributed to the Prophet), are defined as idolaters.
Of course I respect your stand brother. But I am saddened by your choice because I care about all my fellow humans. I also take on GOD s advice about His revelations

We know that you may be saddened by what they say. You should know that it is not you that they reject; it is God's revelations that the wicked disregard.
قَد نَعلَمُ إِنَّهُ لَيَحزُنُكَ الَّذى يَقولونَ فَإِنَّهُم لا يُكَذِّبونَكَ وَلٰكِنَّ الظّٰلِمينَ بِـٔايٰتِ اللَّهِ يَجحَدونَ
Messengers before you have been rejected, and they steadfastly persevered in the face of rejection. They were persecuted until our victory came to them. Such is God's system that will never change. The history of My messengers thus sets the precedents for you.
وَلَقَد كُذِّبَت رُسُلٌ مِن قَبلِكَ فَصَبَروا عَلىٰ ما كُذِّبوا وَأوذوا حَتّىٰ أَتىٰهُم نَصرُنا وَلا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمٰتِ اللَّهِ وَلَقَد جاءَكَ مِن نَبَإِى۟ المُرسَلينَ
If their rejection gets to be too much for you, you should know that even if you dug a tunnel through the earth, or climbed a ladder into the sky, and produced a miracle for them (they still would not believe). Had God willed, He could have guided them, unanimously. Therefore, do not behave like the ignorant ones.
وَإِن كانَ كَبُرَ عَلَيكَ إِعراضُهُم فَإِنِ استَطَعتَ أَن تَبتَغِىَ نَفَقًا فِى الأَرضِ أَو سُلَّمًا فِى السَّماءِ فَتَأتِيَهُم بِـٔايَةٍ وَلَو شاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَمَعَهُم عَلَى الهُدىٰ فَلا تَكونَنَّ مِنَ الجٰهِلينَ

The messenger did not disobey GOD ,he did not leave us his own revelations with GOD s, he obeyed GOD and delivered only GODs revelation/words.His role is clear here

We do not send the messengers except as deliverers of good news, as well as warners. Those who believe and reform have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
وَما نُرسِلُ المُرسَلينَ إِلّا مُبَشِّرينَ وَمُنذِرينَ فَمَن ءامَنَ وَأَصلَحَ فَلا خَوفٌ عَلَيهِم وَلا هُم يَحزَنونَ
As for those who reject our revelations, they incur the retribution for their wickedness.
وَالَّذينَ كَذَّبوا بِـٔايٰتِنا يَمَسُّهُمُ العَذابُ بِما كانوا يَفسُقونَ

The message is GOD s revelations only. Nothing else!!! Look here,clarified without looking elsewhere for other explanations

And preach with this (Qoran) to those who reverence the summoning before their Lord - they have none beside Him as a Lord and Master, nor an intercessor - that they may attain salvation.
وَأَنذِر بِهِ الَّذينَ يَخافونَ أَن يُحشَروا إِلىٰ رَبِّهِم لَيسَ لَهُم مِن دونِهِ وَلِىٌّ وَلا شَفيعٌ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَّقونَ

How can we possibly add Hadiths and sunnah to GOD s statement?
However brother, GOD accepts our repentance and is forgiver most Merciful if we correct.

When those who believe in our revelations come to you, you shall say, "Salãmun `Alaykum (Peace be upon you). Your Lord has decreed that mercy is His attribute. Thus, anyone among you who commits a transgression out of ignorance, and repents thereafter and reforms, then He is Forgiving, Most Merciful."
وَإِذا جاءَكَ الَّذينَ يُؤمِنونَ بِـٔايٰتِنا فَقُل سَلٰمٌ عَلَيكُم كَتَبَ رَبُّكُم عَلىٰ نَفسِهِ الرَّحمَةَ أَنَّهُ مَن عَمِلَ مِنكُم سوءًا بِجَهٰلَةٍ ثُمَّ تابَ مِن بَعدِهِ وَأَصلَحَ فَأَنَّهُ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ
We thus explain the revelations, and point out the ways of the wicked.
وَكَذٰلِكَ نُفَصِّلُ الـٔايٰتِ وَلِتَستَبينَ سَبيلُ المُجرِمينَ
Say, "I am forbidden from following/serving... what you follow besides God." Say, "I will not follow your opinions. Otherwise, I will go astray, and not be guided."
قُل إِنّى نُهيتُ أَن أَعبُدَ الَّذينَ تَدعونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ قُل لا أَتَّبِعُ أَهواءَكُم قَد ضَلَلتُ إِذًا وَما أَنا۠ مِنَ المُهتَدينَ

I am amazed at GOD s prophecy about Muhammed s people , Subhann Allah

Your people have rejected this-Qoran-, even though it is the truth. Say, "I am not a guardian over you."
وَكَذَّبَ بِهِ قَومُكَ وَهُوَ الحَقُّ قُل لَستُ عَلَيكُم بِوَكيلٍ
Every prophecy herein will come to pass, and you will surely find out.
لِكُلِّ نَبَإٍ مُستَقَرٌّ وَسَوفَ تَعلَمونَ

Sorry to persist with the warnings, I do that to myself as well.
Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace.

jkhan

O dear brother GL...keep reminding wuth book of God... Who knows any silent reader who follows hadith get guided... Not necessarily the person you address to. Isn't it.
But Let's put this way also.. .. With their own medince.. No use.. Coz they accepted they don't understand Quran.. So let's speak in a language and source they in fact do understand..

Okay let's follow hadith... But not Bukhari.. Let's learn from Bool Alkafi.. One of the well known books of Shia section of conventional Muslim.. I wonder why the 98 % of entire muslim population don't won't to take that scholarly sources to upgrade their knowledge of Quran... Instead they hate it and call them kafir. So what in fact wrong in looking at their books? If book of Bukhari increase knowledge of Quran to another level since they have spent life long in researching and these Alkafi also same.. What makes these people keep away this source of knowledge away? Why this distinction or rather discrimination?
Well.. The reason and the truth is hadith book not augment the knowledge of Quran but following hadith is MANDATORY and failing to do so he is no more a Sunni Muslim... In fact Not at all muslim.. That's what their modern day scholars say.. Coz they say Obey Allah means Quran Meanwhile obey the Messenger means hadith books yani sunna .. So.. Here scholarly works are not literally meant to increase the understanding of Quran but story is different... So.. Some people here play cat and mouse..

Honestly GL.. AL Kafi book has more clarity then bukhari.. They say their chain of transmission is through Ahl AL Bayt.. That is to say from immediate family of prophet... Not people like Abu Huraira and crew.. ..when I read their hadith about wudu they explain in a lengthy way but only four steps as given in Quran..

So why these Sunni people don't ever reach AL Kafi hadith.. O my fellow hadith followers (Sunni) .. Ponder.. What if those AL kafi hadiths are right and Bukhari is wrong.. OMG.. What will happen.. So obey messenger is not done by you by following wrong hadith source ie Bukhari... On top of that Bukhari has thrown away 98% of sunna of mohamed on his own choice, while Mohamed told I left two things "Quran and my sunna" ... Well what if Bukhari destroyed most of them.. O pity... What if Bukhari is a liar and AL Kafi is right while you people never want to consider AL kafi... What a mess..

If anyone want I can link all Shia source of hadith ..kidding.. just google you will get.. Lol..
Let's pray GL these hadith followers choose right hadith to understand Quran through hadith since they don't understand Quran..

Let me write in my next thread what seeking knowledge is from Quran...

jkhan

SEEKING KNOWLEDGE FROM QURAN...

Let me keep it simple...

God says for example.. Don't you see how we created camel ...

So... Reading this verse of Quran won't pave in roads to seek knowledge... Needless to elaborate but we are recommended to look into his creations and ask questions like what, why, how.. So we know what in fact a camel is... It is not in Quran... Yes.. Of course go for other sources... But approach truth... Explore.. So knowledge is in nature.. That's to in God's creation itself... God that's why say.. Is literate and illiterate same? So pre-gained knowledge is essential to reflect on the creation of nature of God at least to certain extent if not expert. So these we go outside Quran.. Can we learn that only through Quran and get guided... Not all possible.. When there are full of signs in the creations /natures of God for any human who has basic knowledge to reflect, then get convinced that there is God, then why we need the book of God / Guidance of God / Communication of God through a book.. Yes.. Nature will let us know that God does exist if rightly perceive. . But nature / Signs of these beautiful creations won't let us know what we have to do and why... Coz there is no Authority, no expectations. No communication from God to do so... That's why why God has communicated through Messengers to tell people what to do and what not to do to achieve a target.. That is a reward... Purpose of creation is explained.. No guesswork.. What if God never communicated to human through Messengers. . He sent us to this earth and just think looking at nature His existence... What for? That's nonsense... We will end up clueless why we have to believe in God in that way while God is hiding without any mesaage... Communication is key.. And God communicated and don't replace God's communication with human infusion... If you want human infusion there are lot of human invited religions solely.. Follow them coz they also provide good knowledge.. Why only approach Quran then..? And to understand it Hadith...

So seeking knowledge is encouraged and it is must.. otherwise human will never be able to perceive truth... But God's verses speak truth and human has no authority to change it...

After all.. You know why this Quran is teaching us every day a new thing coz God has kept this Quran in a way so that life long human keep thinking about God and keep looking at His book... Coz life long study will not be sufficient to get everything in Quran.. Coz it keeps teaching.. So it means we keep occupied in remembrance of God.. Life is a journey and accessing knowledge through Quran is a journey.. Remember through Quran... That's to say understanding God's communication not human communication...

Nom_de_plume

Hadiths have so much contradictory statements that it leaves us in doubt

Example

How long after revelation commenced did the Prophet (pbuh) live in Mecca and Medina?
There are a number of hadith in Bukhari and Muslim on this subject.

peace, to everyone what's the difference in words used?

‎• سَنَةٍ (sanah or sanatin) - "year" from root س ن و (s-n-w)
‎• سِنِينَ (sinīna) - years plural of “سَنَة" (sanah)

‎1247 قال said تزرعون thou planting سبع seven سنىن years (lunar/solar?)

‎• عَامٍ (aam or aamin) - "year" from root word ع م و (a-m-w)
plural is "أَعْوَامٍ" (a'wamin), dual عَامَيْنِ (aamayni)

‎1249 ثم furthermore ىاتى bringeth من from بعد after ذلك such عام year (lunar/solar?)

‎3114 وفصله and separation (breastfeeding) his (said person) فى in عامىن year two (lunar/solar?)

Is GOD not the only Master-sole authority

peace why post Arabic without verse numbers or which words you’re translating to what unless to make difficult for those perusing the site who are unfamiliar and explain without study of language close to that time period e.g., poetry, inscriptions, hadith etc., how to recite anything including Fatiha?

http//tanzil.net/#14 hit play button to recite

Owner Māliki ? single occurrence
OR
Sovereign Maliki ?
https//youtu.be/-PqP0BCiTlE

4 occurrences
‎1272 صواع cup الملك the sovereign (king)
‎1276 دىن creed الملك the sovereign (king)
‎621 الملك the sovereign
‎1142 ملك sovereign الناس the people

https//youtu.be/gMVvpovqa9w

jkhan

Salam all hadith followers .. Of course fellow believers Salam yo you as well..

I know you(hadithers /Sunnis ) won't like what I write, perhaps you despise what I write coz you love what you do... Nevertheless, we remind and reminder benefits who is seeking truly guidance...

OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY THE MESSENGER...

This is what makes you believe in hadith books.. Am I right?... Okay fine..

Here OBEY is crucial word.. What is the opposite of Obey.. Lol Yes in simple language Disobey... Okay then.. let's figure out how to Disobey Allah and disobey the messenger...

Suppose if I don't believe in Allah, then in fact I disobey Allah, not at all needed Messenger ... But point here is not about disbeliiving people.. Focus is on those who believe .. Either God says directly O you who believed, Obey Allah and obey the Messenger or this phrase is a continuation of O you who believed from previous verses.. So.. Instruction is for those believed and not mushrik or kafir or anyone else.. So obedience is expected from believers..

So how those who believed, disobey Allah and the Messenger? Let's sort out..
Suppose when God says don't eat up orphans properties unjustly.. This is a message /risalah and it is a verse literally of God.. So if one listening to it from the mouth/voice/communication of the messenger and implement that in action by not eating up the wealth of orphans. Then he has done two things distinctively.. Yes.. He obeyed Allah and the Messenger.. How. He listened to the messenger first not denied him when he recited the verse.. So obeyed the Messenger.. But later put that in practice.. So obeyed God coz message is from God.. Got me?
That's why as I explained in my previous thread verse 480 those who obeys the messenger, indeed obeyed the God. .. How can Allah put it in reverse order? Order is to Obey Allah and obey messenger but in Action it should come exactly like in verse 480..Nobody can / would obey Allah unless he obeys His message..

If still not clear let me put in different angle..
God spoke to malaika and told to sujud to Adam.. You know that.. A Mesaage without any mediator /messenger.. But had the message to sujud came through a Messenger(typically) then iblees disobeyed the Messenger and Disobeyed God.. Had the message come from a messenger and iblees obeyed the message and fulfilled sujud to Adam, then iblees obeyed the messenger and obeyed God..
Here issue for you guys is where the message comes from.. And through whom the message comes.. Still not getting.. ?

Let me put this way if so.. .
Suppose no messengers at all. God sent down written complete physical book (the same quran) came to a town in Arabia and everyone witnessed that complete physical book came down through an angel and angel left.. So people witnessed. So obey messenger factor is not anymore an issue here.. Coz no human messenger is involved.. What you have to obey now in this scenario if you happen to read the book which came from the heaven..? Obey God alone. Is it not God alone. ? Any doubt? God is the only one to obey and that's why He communicates with us? No other reason..

Still not able to grasp obey Allah and obey the Messenger..
Okay let me put it this way.. Everyone knows Musa's people and slaughter a cow.. Don't you.. Yes refer verses 267-71.. He messenger is Musa.. Mesaage provider is Allah.. Agree? Who are to obey? Yes people of Musa.. What they say.. O Musa call upon your Lord, let him clarify.. Roughly.. In that manner so how messages were passed to Musa and Musa revealed them to people. Never Musa gave his own opinion.. Coz they said call upon your Lord. It means they knew Musa is the messenger of God who is a mediator to herald the word of God to people unless and otherwise no message at all will come to them from God.. So in the end clear information came from God and Musa delivered and people received... So literally They obeyed Allah and the Messenger.. Without obeying the messenger they can never obey Allah.. It doesn't mean they obey Musa (person) .. No way near truth that is ... If they want to obey Musa then they don't want to say call upon your Lord.. Every time people won't say call upon your Lord. But in reality God knows what to send and God sends what He wants and Messengers receive them and they herald the message to people. Obey or not obey up to us.

People O people! what's wrong with your logic. Is God and prophet Mohamed same, in order for God to say Obey Allah and obey Mohamed.. Is that the Mission of God? Or. .Obey Allah and obey Musa. But that's what you have taken.. Here you completly disregarding the fact that a messenger plays a role of heralding the message of God so that people give a thought to the message and obey God..

Read again and again perhaps God opens at least half a dozen people's mind who read what I have written.. ...
Yes.. I know blinded perhaps hearts are sealed.. But not everyone's hearts are sealed.. Coz we opened heart while following hadith or while being Sunni .. So not all people are same.. Not all people whose hearts are sealed.. So reflect if you want to obey your Master / Lord / Creator / Sustainer / Ilah . .

jkhan