The BIGGER picture: I'm focused, man!..or am I?
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Peace be upon you Idmkhizar,
YOU have made some errors in your posts, First, you translation of 3340 is incorrect;
It should go like this(3340) Is not one who appreciates(muhammadun) a father (to) anyone from your men, and but The God's messenger, and the prophets' seal , and The God IS with every thing knowledgeable.
"muhammad" is a characteristic, a level to be achieved by men and women who strive to be appreciative of the God's guidance.
As with the other words that start with "MU", it takes on the quality of "HAMD" which is appreciation.JUst like MU+slim is a word describing a person of Peaceful submission (salaam)
Just like we have the words "Mumin", "Musalleen", etc
This is not the name of a literal figure as much as people want to believe false stories(hadith) of history and say there is historical proof. The truth is there is HEARSAY, you can believe it blindly or you can seek the truthful resolution that I am expounding upon. I leave that to your free decision making, weighing of evidence.
Next, "kana" means IS , not WAS. The GOD "IS" knowledgeable , not "WAS".
Next, to be one who appreciates (muhammadun) is to reach the SEAL that prevents the wicked from true understanding. It IN NO WAY implies "END" or "FINAL", the God has expressed ENDING/FINALITY all throughout the reading(quran) with no problem, and this is not the word that is used for such an implication.
Lastly
We say tht the PATTERN in the Quran based on no. 19 is one of GOD's greatest miracles/signs
Ayat does NOT mean miracle, it means SIGN, there is NO MENTION of "miracles" anywhere in this reading.
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Peace be upon you Servant,
I appreciate your understanding of messenger to be the describing the status of delivering truth by any person etc, but I don't agree with this applying to a messenger selected by God to deliver the message.
I respect your disagreement, but the evidence is in my favor. It is only from PRE CONCIEVED IDEAS about a mere WORD (rasool) that keeps us thinking it is something more than what it is. It is only because we are dealing with "religious" matters that t his word is blown out of proportion. Your response is no different from those in the past who expected some kind of "angel" to come down or some kind of special gifts to be showered on "a man LIKE US". This is why it was always stated that "The God suffices as a witness" because it is IMPOSSIBLE for another human to BEAR WITNESS to what is inside another. The people of the past could never except that the message was coming from another human, and this is the state we find ourselves in today. We are busy looking to the PAST, while the God says that there are messengers for ALL children of Adam. Are we to be brainwashed into thinking only people in Middle East and in the PAST get messengers? Well, if that is your understanding, then I respect it for YOU, but I can see clearly that the God is telling ALL READERS who dare take the responsibility
YOU ARE A MESSENGER!
If we follow the God, this world will be a better place and sister Sakinah would not have to rightly question "WHAT IS EVERYONE DOING?"
(1343) And those who reject say "You are not sent (a messenger)." Say "Enough/sufficient with The God (as) a witness/testifier between me and between you, and who at him (is) The Book's knowledge."
The reason is that in reading the message it is clear that the messenger status wasn't turned off and on like a tap. The status clearly applies to that person at all times until the mission is complete (usually with the passing away of the messenger).
No, this is incorrect. The reason you cannot see what I am saying is because you are not taking into consideration that we are shown the example of the "Messenger". What I am saying is this, you do not see "Obey Muhammad, Obey Jesus, Obey Musa, ect." Know why? Because HUMANS ARE NOT PERFECT. Instead we see Obey the Messenger, because it is the ONE MESSAGE that is to be obeyed, not infallible humans. Infallible humans are going through the TEST of this earth and are not reliable at all times. And we even get a glimpse ofthis when the "prophet" (still does not say Muhammad, or Jeses, etc) withheld what he was suppossed to deliver and also when he turned away from the blind man.
Even in the direct example of "Musa" we see that he killed a man, and Jonah tried to reject his mission, and David who failed the test of LOOKING AT BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT and bowed down repenting
(3824) ...And David suspected that We tested him so he asked for forgiveness (from) his Lord, and he fell down bowing, and He repented/obeyed .
The issue of ONE exclusive messenger is as you state wrong. In the reading it is clear from chapter 36 that there can be more than one messenger at any time sent to a community.
Yes, we agree here and that is why Shareef is wrong, there is ALWAYS a succession of messengers because there is ALWAYS a human being calling another to WHAT IS RIGHT, and WHAT IS RIGHT does not have to be pointing to a particluar book, though it can be.
The important thing is that a messenger never asks for acknowledgement. The role of a messenger is to deliver the message and that's it. I see too many examples of 'messengers' who demand to be recognised as such and the webmaster of genuineislam.com is one such example amongst many others.
Yes, we agree here also and it is a clear sign of falsehood. A true messenger lest the God suffice as a witness, but my goal is to make people aware that MESSENGERSHIP is something we can all attain. Our EXAMPLES were messengers. How can we follow thier example if we cannot live up to the example set? It makes no sense. And let me make it clear, I do not claim to be THE MESSENGER, I claim that when I speak the TRUTH, I can be described as a messenger, and when I speak incorrectly, I cannot be described as a messenger, and that goes for all humans.
A true messenger of God asks for no wage. A wage is not simply money; to wish to derive respect or acknowledgement etc is in effect a request for payment. After all, we say that we PAY our respects to someone etc.
That's why claims of messengership which rely upon recognition can be dismissed altogether. That's why Shareef fails the criteria.
I agree partially. While I agree with the premise of your statement, even Shareef is a messenger when he DOES speak the truth, but when he comes out and says that he is the ONE AND ONLY MESSENGER, he is clearly misguided.
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Peace be upon you Sister Majidah,
One question to you all is that how can anyone really reject a person as a messenger if that person claims that he has got advice from God?
I am not rejecting that, I am rejecting his statement that he is the ONE AND ONLY MESSENGER, as if it is a title, rather than a relative description. When you understand this DESCRIPTION, you will see that his claim is false. If it was true, then there is NO OTHER HUMAN IN THIS WORLD that can call another to the TRUTH, to correct behavior. SUrely you don't think SHareef, or any human is given that responsibility alone. NO. The God sends a SUCCESSION of messengers. We ALL have the POTENTIAL of being a messenger. The truth is that Shareef IS a messenger ONLY when TRUTHFUL STATEMENTS come from his mouth, and we can only know what is TRUE by VERIFICATION, by LIVING TRUTH ourselves.
We cannot say that he is wrong or right if we didn't have get the proofs of it inside us.
Yes, we must LIVE TRUTH to verify TRUTH, and that is certainly what I am doing. And the truth about the word "rasool" which means BOTH messenger AND message tells me clearly that his is not a TITLE, but a description, and it is achievable by ALL HUMANS who strive for it. Most parents are messengers to thier children, calling them to right conduct/behavior, but since we have been SCARED into believing that messengers are some superheroes from Jerusulem and Mecca, we are afraid to see the truth of a simple word. I am no longer afraid, fear is not the characteristic of the righteous.
All messengers from God has never been perfect they have always done something wrong and then learnt from it.
So I cannot understand why you think Br Shareef is so wrong!?
Yes, that is correct. And when messengers do wrong, they are not messengers AT THAT TIME. It is a relative description, do right and call to the correct behavior, you are a messenger, do the opposite and you are not a messenger. It is very simple equation thatis in line with the context of teh entire reading(quran), we reap ONLY whay we sow. There is no favoritism with the God, we are treated fairly.
I think people today are so selfish and jelous when someone stick out their nose and want to guide someone because they want to be in his clothes.I doubt that it is many who can witness a messenger from God today and it is due to their lack of humbleness.
I am sorry that your emotions are blinding you to this issue, and I am suprised at that based on our past discussions. I hope you will ponder on my sober view and continue to reflect on this issue.
Respectfully.
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Peace be upon you Sister Majidah and Shareef,
Here is Br Shareef's replies!
Let them know that I have NO personal issue with any
of themI have no personal issue with Shareef. In fact, I did not bring his name up, but must respond to falsehood.
... this is GOD and HIS message... they either
accept it or reject it, and my duty is to EXPOSE them
to themselves and EXPOSE their falsehood, hypocrisy
and crookedness AND LIES about GOD, HIS message, and
HIS messenger.WHat is God's message? WHo is his messenger? Shareef and ALL of the words that come out of his mouth, or ANYONE who speaks truth at that time they are speaking truth? This is what I need updated clarification on. I know in the past he was claiming he was the ONE AND ONLY MESSENGER.
I agree with the discussion on kana and have stated the same things, yet did not claim to be the ONE AND ONLY MESSENGER**
Let me share with you a VERY serious Important FACT...
this is NOT a game, and I'm putting my life on the
line here... be honest and see it from my side
according to GOD'S BOOK.No, its not a game and we SHOULD be putting our lives on the line, the God says so in the reading, Shareef is merely following what we ALL were told to do based on this reading(quran). But we should not FEAR this as fear is not a characteristic of the righteous.
Under the overwhelming logical verifiable undeniable
multiple evidence you have NO reason to argue or
reject... your BEST option is to either accept and/or
wait and continue to sincerely and humbly desire and
seek GOD'S guidance to DESERVE AND GAIN HIS Guidance.You have nothing to loose and obviously much much much
to gain... don't rush and don't say things that you
will soon regret... if you are NOT SURE about this
issue... do your duty and check and verify... and I
extended my invitation to anyone who is SINCERE AND
HUMBLE ENOUGH in his or her desire to seek the
truth... just simply humble and ask simple questions,
and don't worry about the sophistication of the
question, worry about the SINCERITY OF IT... great
intellectual philosophers go astray for their lack of
sincerity.I agree and ask Shareef to do as he is saying and consider his claim as ONE AND ONLY MESSENGER.
I warn you NOT to be mislead by your own deeds, and
don't get recklessly satisfied by what you know now...
I ASSURE YOU THAT THERE IS MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE TO
GOD'S GUIDANCE THAN MOST IF NOT ALL OF YOU REALIZE.Again, This is the honest to GOD TRUTH, I have NO
desire what-so-ever MORE than to be guided, fulfill my
sacred duty, and go to paradiseThe One and Only messenger should already be in paradise, the Garden is a state of mind that is achieved HERE and continues after the physical vehicle returnd to earth. It is not some place with harps and flying children to be waited on after death.
, don't be a victim of
all kinds of baseless conjectures and nonsense,
arrogance, crookedness (makr), jealousy, hypocrisy,
and ignorance... DON' DON'T DON'T.And the same to you RESPECTED brother Shareef.
I have NO idea what will happen next, I only follow
what is being REVEALED to me.As we all should.
MY MISSION IS TO FULFILL GOD'S MESSAGE BY WARNING, AND
ANNOUNCING THE GOOD NEWS, CONVEYING AND CLARIFYING THE
MESSAGE TO ALL HUMAN-KINDS, GUIDE THE BELIEVERS WITH
HIS PERMISSION, AND JUDGE BETWEEN THEM.I'm NOT asking you to believe blindly... I'm asking
you to be sincere and humble enough in desiring and
seeking GOD'S guidance as you check and verify my
claim by the book of GOD.Respected.
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Salaam,
I hope that Br Shareef will come and comment what you have written, I gave him the link to this thread.
Take Care,
Sis Majidah
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Peace be upon you Sister Majidah,
YOur response worries me. It sounds like the response of a sunni who runs to thier Imam and cannot reason for themselves.
I am not used to this from you respected sister. There is nothing wrong with agreeing with the truthful statements that Shareef does bring, but do not be made into a blind follower.
Please share YOUR positions, independant of Shareef, please.
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Salaam,
I hope that Br Shareef will come and comment what you have written, I gave him the link to this thread.
Take Care,
Sis Majidah
Peace Majidah,
Convey to Shareef that he should throw whatever it is he has to throw.
Then it may be possible to determine the truth from the falsehood. There's no need to convince us of the continuity of messengers - that's what he is going to great pains to do (probably for the benefit of traditionalists) but he should just present his information.
There's no need to join him or be required to believe in his claim of messengership to receive information.
Do you think Noah, Saleh or any of the other messengers of the reading required people to join or believe in them before they presented the message?
So let him throw whatever it is he has to throw.
Peace.
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Salaam Br Kyle and Servant
I'm not running after my Imam absolutely not!
You have totally misundertood me cry
I feel to say that I really do like the message of kindness and humbleness and so on that Br Shareef is present on his site because in other sites no one talks about such easy and to me clear issues.
Other sites are more hate of the hadiths and so on and I'm so tired about all those fightings going on between muslims.
I have never said to you that you have to believe and follow Br Shareef as a messenger, my thought was just to remind you that it exist other sites than just Free-Minds.org.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
This is my respond to their nonsense, falsehood,
lies and false accusations.Some of them do not know what they are talking
about, we know from GOD'S book that the hypocrites
are always searching for any other kind of messenger
but the real genuine one!!The saying that I ask for wages for conveying
GOD'S message is Transgressing, unjust LIE!!!According to GOD book, many people will not
hesitate to false accuse GOD'S messenger based on
hearsay and conjectures and that is ENOUGH TO FULLY
EXPOSE THEM TO THE GUIDED ONES!The UNJUST will also say that a messenger does not
ask for recognition, AND THEY WICKEDLY MIX IT WITH THE
CONCEPT OF WAGES... shows their lack of decency and
sheer ignorance of GOD'S book!!!!One of the MAJOR MOST IMPORTANT DUTY for the
messenger is to seek RECOGNITION and he is commanded
to proclaim his messenger-ship (say, say, say)... some
people does not know what they are talking about, they
are arrogant who does not take heed, have respect, and
reverence GOD enough NOT to lie about HIM, HIS
message, AND HIS MESSENGER!They seek self-satisfaction in such arguments...
they are NOT concerned with the TRUTH... they are NOT
free enough to think independently... they are
dominated by Satan and he makes them utterly jealous
to say that I don't deliver any message... how blind,
crooked and jealous can they be!!!... GOD only knows,
but I know that that is just the start and the worst
is yet to come!!!Actually this kind of reaction is just another
confirmation of my messenger-ship, and they have no
idea what I'm facing, they actually don't care...
not until they believe... then and only then they will
realize how ignorant and how astray they were.Being astray, they have a hard time and they can't
distinguish between my FULL TRUST in GOD and FULL
dependent on HIM as a believer, and my duty as a
messenger, and my weaknesses and limitations as a
human-being!!Just pay attention how they, instead of sincerely
and humbly desire and seek GOD'S guidance by sincerely
and humbly and seriously checking and carefully
verifying my claim, they arrogantly and carelessly
RUSH into rejection, and they don't STOP there... they
LIE AND FALSE ACCUSE!!All of that while they claim and they convinced
themselves that they are actually sincerely following
desiring and seeking GOD's guidance and following HIS
book... if that is NOT SHEER HYPOCRISY THEN I DON'T
KNOW WHAT IS!!!They will do just about EVERYTHING and go through
all kinds of tricks just to deceive themselves and
divert others from the TRUTH... THE PURE PLAIN GENUINE
TRUTH THAT IS STARRING THEM RIGHT IN THE EYE.Many of them are no more than careless disrespectful
kids (physically or mentally) who try to get some
satisfaction to challenge the sacred powerful message
I convey... what a shame!!GOD, HIS message, and HIS messenger are TOTALLY
innocent from such people and their arrogance,
crookedness, evil, and falsehood until they repent,
humble and take heed.I assure you, many of the so-called quran alone
followers are NO more than crooked and hypocrites to
say the least, and I ASSURE you that I'm EXPOSING
them more and more every day!!!Instead of having sheer happiness and joy for the
coming of GOD'S messenger, they dive deeper and
deeper into arrogance, crookedness, hypocrisy, and
jealousy... their initial reaction of the claim of a
possible messenger is enough to EXPOSE them to the
bones!!I can FEEL their JEALOUSY and CROOKEDNESS... it is
mind-boggling!!Some of them have a real deep sickness, severely
corrupted souls, and serious twisted mentalities and
complexities.They are infested with evil, and as soon as
they hear someone inviting them to the truth and
conveying GOD's message or inviting them to GOD'S
messenger they burst with all kinds of evil,
falsehood, lies, hatred, and false accusation... I
have been experiencing this for few years now.SO HELP ME GOD, AND HE DOES, MORE AND MORE AND MORE,
AND THE REJECTORS "WILL REALIZE" WHAT WILL BECOME OF
THEM.I constantly try to avoid such low quality evil
degrading arguments... I just took this opportunity to
strongly show and point to them their REAL situation
and refute their evil fales accusations!I also wish this to be a reminder for those who have
a chance to seriously consider and reconsider.Other's are evilly staying quite and enjoying these
false accusation... GOD is FULLY aware of their
intentions.. Surely if they don't repent, they will
be accountable... hiding behind the PC will NOT
shield them from the almighty GOD.Regarding Kyle, he is FAR ASTRAY, and he is literally
hallucinating... and unfortunately he false accuse
too.At the time, I told him that I think that I'm the
only GOD'S messenger, but I'm not in a position to be
SURE YET, and that I don't know of anyone else who is
GOD'S messenger... I know he is not, he is GOD'S enemy
if he does NOT repent from his lies about GOD, HIS
message, and HIS messenger.I try my best NOT to RUSH , I'm commanded NOT
to... So I do my best not to take a stand or make a
final conclusion on any matter until it is fully
revealed and matured.He also crookedly accuse you of being a follower...
another SHEER ignorance of GOD'S book... messenger's
and good imams MUST be followed according to GOD'S
book.True believers of the messenger are VERY sincere and
humble AND free intellectual humans... they don't
follow blindly, they only follow after they carefully
verify, then believe, then follow. And when they
follow they don't worship... they know the difference
VERY well... they even know when to remind or even
correct the fallible messenger in rare certain
occasions.Kyle is inconstant and undisciplined in his study of
the book, and he needs to humble and start examining
the info on my website carefully to realize... he
OWE it to himself.It is NOT my intentions to hurt anyone's feelings...
I just EXPOSE THEM AND THEIR FALSEHOOD, AND REFUTE
THEIR FALSE ACCUSATION... and their fate is in GOD'S
hand.I assure you that the time has come, and the REAL
TEST is just beginning.Peace from me to everyone, and peace from ALMIGHTY GOD
ON THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE GUIDANCE.Peace
Shareefhttp//www.Genuine-Islam.com
And most of them follow nothing but conjectures.
Conjectures does NOT substitute the TRUTH. -
Peace to every one here i think Messanger word is not limited to a specipic special person but it got more than that e.g a
father who teach his son/doughter Quran is a messanger in himself because he was carrying the message n than he delivered to
his childrens , when i was a sunni n submission.org does act to me like a messanger than when i arrived here bro n sis of
free mind act to me like messanger n in the same way when i talk to some one about message than i appeared to be a messanger
to him its not the messanger who is important its the message whicih is important if u r looking for guidence some one will
appear like a messanger to him n will delivered message thats why there is a seal of prophet but there is no seal on
messanger because its meaning is wast ,its not good to just stuck on one verse like sunni did to Islam one verse about
obeying the messanger n they start comlying books n books about the messanger n to stuck to number 19 saying that its agreat
miricle n instead of inviting peoples to the whole message the peoples r stuck to number 19 if u accept 19 as a miricle or
not its ok with me but if u want to forget the whole message n stuck to 19 only than u r doing the same thing whicih sunnis r
doing they r still stuck to obey the messanger n u r still stuck with 19 like them peace
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However, what are some of you guys doing in regards to "being a Muslim"...particularly respective to fighting for basic human and environmental rights?
peace,
i've been writing letters to quite a few politicians regarding oil drilling in pristine areas of Alaska, also against logging in the northwestern US old-growth forests, i've been planting trees, composting, recycling, gave up eating meat, helping to care for an elderly person, handed out literature, joined the Green Party. hmmm, can one be a hippie and a muslim?