Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. 'S J D ' with clarity - indeed not Prostration

'S J D ' with clarity - indeed not Prostration

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
81 Posts 7 Posters 2.7k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • J Offline
    J Offline
    jkhan
    wrote on last edited by
    #17

    124
    "when Yousuf said to his father, "O my father, indeed I have seen eleven stars and the sun and the moon. I saw them to me Honoring/acknowledging ."

    12100

    "And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they paid/showed honor /acknowledgement (SJD) to him. And he said, "O my father, this is the explanation of my vision of before. ....."

    The above two verses are very familiar to everyone but not in this translations.. Do you remember Yaqub, the father of Yousuf said that not to disclose his dream to his brothers.. You know why.. Yes.. The reason is HONOR in dream and the brothers already was fed up of HONOR cuz they considered their father showed all the respect to Yousuf alone...
    Here what Yousuf saw was not PROSTRATION physically by Stars and the Sun and the Moon but what he saw is indeed they (SJD) / HONOR /acknowledge Him...
    That's what in the end resulted... Yousuf was separated for ages and once He became literally and possibly a King they were united so his parents and brothers HONORED him thus acknowledged him after long lapse..

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • J Offline
      J Offline
      jkhan
      wrote on last edited by
      #18

      7206

      "Indeed, those who are in the presence of your Lord do not disdain from serving (Ibada) Him, and they glorify Him, and to Him they ACKNOWLEDGE / HONOR (SJD)."

      Now let's convert it to traditional translation the end of the verse and reflect..
      "And to Him they PROSTRATE "
      Now question is if the Malaika and whoever near to Allah are PROSTRATING Him alone then why Allah commanded them to PROSTRATE to Adam.. Total contradiction...
      In reality no contradiction... What they SJD is acknowledge /Honor God in the manner He deserve with their intent like we acknowledge God in life.. But what was commanded in the case of Adam was to acknowlwdge /Honor him not in the manner as God but acknowlwdge with due honor.. But if the word Is PHYSICAL PROSTRATION then only ONE WAY.. got me? Remember and compare now God said DO NOT (SJD) honor /acknowlwdge to the Sun or the Moon...if one can prostrate to Allah and Adam then why NOT prostrate to the Sun.. The reason is word SJD is just acknowledge / honor but with what intent you do depends but if PROSTRATION physically it depicts one object ie WORSHIPING.. no way.. It won't make sense. If you can PROSTRATE to everyone and everything regardless who they are then PROSTRATION to God would make a piece of joke.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • J Offline
        J Offline
        jkhan
        wrote on last edited by
        #19

        I researched a lot on how SUN WORSHIPING is performed and in what posture etc in various cultures be ut Ancient Egyptian or Indo or Mayan or Babylonians etc and strangely non of them give any priority to a physical posture which is identical to Muslim Prayer posture commonly called Sujud /Prosstration...
        So, what I realized is God states do not SJD can never mean a physical posture but the HONOR / ACKNOWLEDGEMENT to the Sun... Mainly sacrifices are ritually performed in Sun worshipping along with certain ritual postures looking at the Sun...

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • J Offline
          J Offline
          jkhan
          wrote on last edited by
          #20

          I researched a lot on how SUN WORSHIPING is performed and in what posture etc in various cultures be ut Ancient Egyptian or Indo or Mayan or Babylonians etc and strangely non of them give any priority to a physical posture which is identical to Muslim Prayer posture commonly called Sujud /Prosstration...
          So, what I realized is God states do not SJD can never mean a physical posture but the HONOR / ACKNOWLEDGEMENT to the Sun... Mainly sacrifices are ritually performed in Sun worshipping along with certain ritual postures looking at the Sun...

          2724
          "I found her and her people acknowledging / Honoring (SJD) to the sun instead of Allah , and Satan has made their deeds pleasing to them and averted them from the Path, so they will not be guided"

          Just to clarify... To acknowledge something one should do something to make it a viable, true acknowledgement like Honor or respect or dignify or incline or submit or else they should have been commanded to acknowledge something or else they should self realize certain things or else it should come to them as heritage from ancestors so they literally ACKNOWLEDGE anything..

          So the sun worshipping is an anceint ritualistic faith ACKNOWLEDGING the Sun as god... And their rituals could vary place to places in many ways... God here not mentioned that they PROSTRATE physically to The Sun but clearly said SJD /Acknowledge / honor the Sun and of course as god.. Needles for God to say what they do in their rituals.. For example even Ibrahim also was confused at certain point assuming that the Sun was his god but wisely he didn't ACKNOWLEDGE (SJD) to it..
          Nabi Sulaiman's bird didn't find them PROSTRATING to the Sun but instead it found they had Acknowledged the Sun as god leaving Allah...once their Lord is the Sun whatever the nonsensical rituals they do is irrelevant ...

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • J Offline
            J Offline
            jkhan
            wrote on last edited by
            #21

            1315

            "And to Allah Acknowledge / Honor whoever is in the heavens and the earth, intentionally or by compulsion,........"

            This is a very interesting statement... Needless to say that most on Earth as human DO NOT PROSTRATE to Allah... But what exactly Allah confirms here while reality is other way around.. No... Alah is right in His above statement... Reason is everyone HONOR / ACKNOWLEDGE (SJD) to Allah but by compulsion...How? What is Honoring Allah here? For example if someone admire the beauty of mountains whole heartedly then indeed he or she is HONORING thus acknowledging Allah and His creations... But in vain is their HONORING cuz they disbelive in Allah.. The reason Allah used two specific words at the end of the statement INTENTIONALLY and UNINTENTIONALLY..... People do honor God's creations regardless of their faith thus indeed acknowlwdge God... No prostration.. Never...

            Now compare God's above statement with the below statement..

            383
            "So is it other than the Direction (Deen) of Allah they desire, while to Him have surrendered (Aslama) those in the heavens and earth, intentionally or by compulsion, ..... "

            It's no SJD verse but same statement using another word ASLAM / surrender or submit.. What indeed surrender or submit ? Needless to explain to you all.. But does everyone in the heavens and earth surrender/submit to Allah intentionally or unintentionally? Believers surrender/submit intentionally but those who deny Allah surrender /submit unintentionally... Everything is God's creations.. So anyone who love and yeild to any of God's creations is indeed surrendering to Allah but unintentionally... If someone dreaming of living a beautiful life in Earth then indeed he submit to Allah but he doesn't believe in God.. ACTIONS may reflect their surrender /submission to Allah but not with INTENT.. Life itself a submission.. Caring parents or looking after children all submission to Allah.. Or give charity to poor etc.. But they don't believe Allah.. They didn't surrender /submit to Allah with INTENT save their actions.. so in vain.. Read the verse carefully 383 ... They don't like the Deen/Direction of Allah but they all Somehow submit /surrender (Aslama) to Allah..

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • J Offline
              J Offline
              jkhan
              wrote on last edited by
              #22

              4829

              "Muhammad is A Messenger of Allah, and those with him are intense over the disbelievers, amicable among themselves. You observe them humbly acknowledging/honoring (SJD), seeking grace / preference from Allah and pleasure. Their characteristics (Seema) are on their countenances / expressions (wajha) from the effects (Azthar) of HONORING /ACKNOWLEDGING (SJD) . ......"

              The above verse is quite famous amongst conventional Muslims as well to come to a resolute conclusion that Sujud is physical.. But indeed No.. SJD is not PROSTRATION... Allah elaborates the life style of Mohamed (messenger of Allah) and his believing companions.. They were very intense but they have quality of being amicable as well. And they had quality of humility thus HONORING God.. Why? Yes they seek Grace / Preference of Allah and thus His pleasure.. Indeed a believer can gain by humbling and HONORING the God, the grace and pleasure of Allah.. That's how they were.. Cuz of this they were different. Their appearance/behaviour all ... How..? They had characteristics visible in their complete expressions as a result of constant effects of truly ACKNOWLEDGING / HONORING Allah... Easy to recognise them as true believers by looking at them cuz their every action resonates it... Simply in a nutshell TRUTHFUL people.. Yeah.. Like you can easily recognise hypocrites when you are with them mingling in life... Actions speak louder...

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • J Offline
                J Offline
                jkhan
                wrote on last edited by
                #23

                399
                " Is one who is subservient, in periods of the night, acknowledging / honoring, and mindful (Qaima) of safeguarding the Hereafter and he is hoping for the mercy of his Lord. Say, "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" people who are reflecting only will remember."

                This is a very straight forward verse but traditional translations easily manipulated either knowingly or with misguidance prostrating and standing..

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • J Offline
                  J Offline
                  jkhan
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #24

                  3872
                  "So when I have proportioned him (Adam) and breathed into him of My soul (Ruh) then it is incumbent (Faqa'uu) to him acknowledging /honoring."

                  Traditionally here it is translated Stating "Fall down to him prostrating " as a command... No... We know God commanded Malika to SJD / acknowledge to Adam..thats obvious.. but in this verse God explains Himself how he created and then breathed from His Ruh and once Adam became a living being God confirms he deserved to be ACKNOWLEDGED / HONORED... word used is Faqauu/incumbent .. So in next verse 3873 Allah doesn't talk about usual COMMAND to Malika to SJD.. But Allah says they acknowledged..
                  How differently God describes His verses... Then Iblees became DENIER /kafir... Cuz Iblees didn't acknowledge God's creation for which it is incumbent in the first place... Secondly indeed God commanded too to acknowledge and refused as well..

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • J Offline
                    J Offline
                    jkhan
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #25

                    2646
                    "So extended / drew in (Fa'ulkiya) the magicians in acknowledgement"

                    The above almost everyone translated the Fa'ulqya to FALLEN... NO..word itself has nothing to do with FALLEN... but the meaning indeed EXTENDED... Literally on that day it was a competition between Musa and Magicians and once they performed their best magic and it was disintegrated by Musa's real Sign.. So these magicians REALIZED it that is TRUTH.. this realisation is ACKNOWLEDGEMENT here. But once they acknowledged within themselves they began to talk verbally... What they said.. Read next verses... Indeed they said They believe in Allah... Even King pharou immediately replied "Did you believe " and the King pharou didn't say "Did you PROSTRATE" cuz their acknowledgement (SJD) was a personal realisation / acceptance ..
                    Word ulkya has meaning of receive, throw, extend, draw place etc.. But not Fall..

                    Note.. Now one question.. Okay Fa'ulkya is not FALLEN, but in another verse Kharra is used and Kharra meaning of FALLEN.. yes Kharra has meaning of physical falling too.. But it is a phrase clearly.. Read my kharra reply my list of verses above... Kharr is simply mean "to concur with " or " to harmonise with" as well phrase fall in..

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • J Offline
                      J Offline
                      jkhan
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #26

                      1958
                      "Those are they, Allah bestowed favor from among the prophets of the descendants of Adam and of those We carried with Nuh, and of the descendants of Ibraham and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose. When the verses/revelations of Ar'Rahman were recited to them, they concurred with / harmonized with (Kharru) acknowledgement (SJD) and weeping."

                      Take the example of above verse with word Kharru and SJD.. Here every previous Nabbi indeed when the revelations were recited they were not arrogant they harmonized with acknowledgement and made them weep... They didn't fall physically in prostration whenever verses were recited to them every time .. Nonsensical.. Cuz revelation /verses are full of truth, knowledge and wisdom and reminders and hearing them, they could not resist and they concurred with their minds and thus acknowledged and it made them weep.. It happens with any true believer when we read ourselves or recited to us. It happens with me too.. Heart cringes in servile manner..

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • J Offline
                        J Offline
                        jkhan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #27

                        9112
                        "those the repenting, the serving, the praising, the straitness freeing, the humbling, the acknowledging, the enjoining with the good and the refraining from the evil, and those the guarding to limits of Allah. And give glad tidings to the believing."

                        These are some of the key characteristics of true believers.. Please read following and preceding verses for better clarity.. These are not rituals but immaculate actions in life...

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • J Offline
                          J Offline
                          jkhan
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #28

                          I know majority of you won't agree with my understanding but no harm... My intention only to present my understanding and absolutely satisfied with it after comprehensive research...
                          In that line allow me to submit another couple of SJD verses..

                          2125 And when we made the system / charter (AlBayt) a recompense to the people and an assurance, and to take from establishment / direction of Ibrahim a connection (Musalla). And we covenanted to Ibrahim and Ismail to clarify My System / Charter to the dutiful, the devoted, and the Humbling the acknowledging /honoring."

                          2226 And when we steadied / resolved to Ibrahim plan (makan) of the System / Charter (AlBayt), "that not to associate with Me anything and clarify my system / charter (bayt) for those the dutiful and the upholding / firm and the humbling the acknowledging /honoring ".

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #29

                            Root س ج د

                            Affectionate surrender of one's will and freedom/liberty-Forehead on the ground.

                            Words from this Root in the Grand Qur’ān

                            a) Total occurrences 92

                            b) No of constructions 33

                            Nouns 16; Recurrence 57; Verbs 17; Recurrence 35

                            Related concepts

                            Root ر ك ع Kneeling

                            Root ص ل و

                            Semantic components

                            1. Basic initial meanings Feel of reverence and its expression through physical gesture-body language-lowering of head in state chin moving towards chest and gaze going down. It is a relational word-a relationship between the Reverent and the Revered. Reverent and the Revered could be any object or person.

                            2. Advanced meanings in the changed relational field when the Revered is the Only One-The Absolute-The Only Independent-The Self Subsisting-The Creator-The Supreme Exalted-Sovereign Sustainer Lord of the Universes, and the Reverent are all objects and living-all that exists in the created realm. Here the meanings, while retaining the basic perception, advance into its extreme limits-Prostration.

                            3. Sublime and sincere Prostration of human beings-Bowing and curving to lay the forehead on the Earth denoting absolute surrender and sublime adoration.

                            4. Laying of Forehead on ground relays non-verbal signal of surrender of granted Freedom and Will of decision and self governing to the Sustainer Lord.

                            5. The Laying of Forehead on ground yields bridging the distance to get nearer to the Sustainer Lord.

                            It may be seen that the original, fundamental meanings are the feel of lowliness, humility, submissiveness by one for someone else, which is manifested by lowering of one's head in the state chin moving towards chest along with eyes going downwards, or bending oneself down. The basic perception unfolds that this is a relational word-it happens or takes existence only when there are two entities. Moreover, evidently it is not an abstract or theoretical proposition but a physical act; something expressed, conveyed, and submitted through body language instead of verbal expression. This act signifies and demonstratively portrays-parallels one's thought of surrender and submission reflecting acceptance of his relative humble state and position as against the exalted, honoured, elevated stature, and glory of other. This gives us its initial perception and meanings as obeisance, homage, respectful, saluting gesture and behaviour towards/for someone else.

                            The relational aspect, physical nature and the reflection of the relativity in stature, position and elevation of the subject and the one for whom this act is done is explained at first instance of use of this Root in the Qur’ān

                            https//haqeeqat.pk/roots/(63.htm

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • J Offline
                              J Offline
                              jkhan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #30

                              Allow me to present this beautiful verse..
                              5040

                              "And of the night exalt/glorify Him and pondering /reflecting the acknowledgement."

                              Glorifying the God is not mere words but reflecting a lot about Allah and that's literally a way of Exalting Allah thus with every reflection /pondering do the acknowledgement in heart...
                              Beautiful... I do... I am sure true believers indeed do...

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • J Offline
                                J Offline
                                jkhan
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #31

                                I have been presenting SJD verses for sometime now where it means acknowlwdge but when the word is MASJID or MASAJID from the same root what it means.. You must be curious... No difference.. Same meaning... But it has its own meaning... Let's begin with below verse very familiar with the story of people of Cave.. ..

                                1821

                                ".... ....Construct (Abnu) over them a structure (Bunyanan). Their Lord was well knowing about them. Said those who prevailed in the affair, "We will indeed take over them a state of acknowledgement (Masjid) / state of honor"

                                It's pretty clear what they did on behalf of the people of cave... They found it very strange and specific... So it seems they argued and a group prevailed and decided to raise something in acknowledgement of them... In simple language for example a monument or memorial or sanctuary whatever but in honor of or in acknowledgement of.. But one of themeanings of Masjid is "state of acknowledgement"...

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  jkhan
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #32

                                  I have been presenting SJD verses for sometime now where it means acknowlwdge but when the word is MASJID or MASAJID from the same root what it means.. You must be curious... No difference.. Same meaning... But it has its own meaning... Let's begin with below verse very familiar with the story of people of Cave.. ..

                                  1821

                                  ".... ....Construct (Abnu) over them a structure (Bunyanan). Their Lord was well knowing about them. Said those who prevailed in the affair, "We will indeed take over them a state of acknowledgement (Masjid) / state of honor"

                                  It's pretty clear what they did on behalf of the people of cave... They found it very strange and specific... So it seems they argued and a group prevailed and decided to raise something in acknowledgement of them... In simple language for example a monument or memorial or sanctuary whatever but in honor of or in acknowledgement of.. But one of themeanings of Masjid is "state of acknowledgement"...

                                  This Bunyan / Structure could be even nonphysical.. Like abnu (raise) an organization /composition (Bunyanan)...

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • J Offline
                                    J Offline
                                    jkhan
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #33

                                    As I elaborated above MASJID means "state of acknowledgement or state of honor".. Accordingly in honor of, people raised various things and one such aspect is SANCTUARY... So this sanctuary is not formed or called just sanctuary without a reason. It has a valid reason to be called a SANCTUARY be it a natural or man-made structure ... The Reason is it is formed in honor of or rather in acknowledgement of and that state of acknowledgement makes the sanctuary specific where people flock in total freedom regardless of faith..
                                    But there could be such SANCTUARIES formed in ill intention as the following verse portrays...

                                    Let's compare the above Masjid verse with below one.. But compulsorily read 9107 before reading 9108 for better clarity and without reading 9107 you perhaps won't get the cream and essence of the verse 9108.. Also read 9109 very essential..

                                    9108
                                    "Do not be in it ever. On a state of acknowledgement formed upon conciousness from the very inception is more worthy for you to stand in it. In it are men who love to purify themselves; and Allah loves those who purify themselves.

                                    So when you read following and preceding verses it is very manifest that evil hearted people raised or formed Bunyanan / structure (man-made or natural) in an acknowledgement of their evil purposes and indeed they formed it in honor of those who waged war against Allah... But they called it a SANCTUARY for good purpose... No way... God confirms they are liars and the Sanctuary they raised is not at all worthy enter...

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • J Offline
                                      J Offline
                                      jkhan
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #34

                                      731

                                      "O children of Adam, take your splendours /magnificence at every Sanctuary (Masjid), and eat and drink, but be not excessive. Indeed, He likes not those who commit excess."

                                      Closely look at the above verse... Allah Addressed "O children of Adam" so regardless of faith.. The only place all are welcome is Allah's SANCTUARIES where God's name glorified / remembered / reflected a lot. A Sanctuary formed /founded "in acknowledgement of / in honor of true purpose... And normally in sanctuaries things are in abundance...

                                      That's why God confirms that SANCTUARIES belong to Him..

                                      7218
                                      And that the SANCTUARIES (Masaajids) are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone.
                                      "

                                      Sanctuaries founded for good intent is always a place belong to Allah, so in such sanctuaries as believers never invoke or associate with Allah... Cuz as a believer once you are in a SANCTUARY you are in a state of acknowledgement / honor cuz SANCTUARY itself was found in honor of / in acknowledgement of good purpose.. .. It's not a place for evil...

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        jkhan
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #35

                                        729
                                        Say, "My Lord has commanded with justice and that you be firm in your expressions / countenances in the presence of every (Masjid) SANCTUARY (ie under state of acknowledgement), and invoke Him, sincerely to Him of the direction (Deen)."

                                        When you are in a God's Sanctuary yiu are bound to be evil free not only in your actions visible or spiritually...

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • J Offline
                                          J Offline
                                          jkhan
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #36

                                          Now allow me to explain what "Al Masjid AL Haram " means... If you have read my old topic Haj verses with clarity you would have known already...

                                          AL Masjid AL Haram = The Sanctuary the Sanctioned / Forbidden " . Here AL masjid is not formed in vain but "in a state of acknowledgement " which is pure purpose to hold the Haj (Debate).. As I explained in my earlier threads Sanctuaries won't get founded without specific purpose.. AL Masjid AL Haram was indeed founded in honor or in acknowledgement of Haj where it takes place.. If I present an analogy it will be like.. Olympics = Haj, and Destination Olympics takes place is equal Sanctuary (Masjid)..

                                          I presebt one Quran verse where AL masjid AL haram apears..
                                          2191

                                          " ..... .... And do not fight them in the presence of The Sanctuary The Forbidden (al-Masjid al- Haram) until they fight you there. In case if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users