'S J D ' with clarity - indeed not Prostration
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I have been thinking about this thread talk on what "sujood" means in the Quran. It is an interesting to see different views. Jkhan says "sujood" means following what Allah tells us in the Quran, not the action of bowing down. Mazhar believes it's about the physical act of bowing down, like when we pray.
Both of you have good points. But let's remember, whether it's bowing down or following Allah's words, both ways show our love and respect for Allah. It's like two sides of the same coin. Bowing down is a way to show humility and respect physically. Following Allah's guidance in our daily lives shows respect and love in our hearts and actions.
The main thing is, both ways are about listening to Allah and trying our best to do as He asks. That's what brings us together and what's most important.
Let's appreciate our different views.
Arabic language has explicit concepts. Its words are explicit.
The basic perception infolded and signification conveyed by this Root, in the words of Ibne Faris , and others is as under
(سجد) السين والجيم والدال أصلٌ واحدٌ مطّرد يدلّ على تطامُن وذلّ. يقال سجد، إذا تطَامَنَ. وكلُّ ما ذلَّ فقد سجد. قال أبو عمرو أسْجَدَ الرَّجُل، إذا طأطأَ رأسَهُ
سجد (الصّحّاح في اللغة)
سَجَدَ خضعأَسْجَدَ الرَجُلُ طَأْطَأَ رَأْسَهُ وانْحَنى
ومنه سُجودُ الصلاة، وهو وضع الجَبْهة على الأَرْضِ
Semantic components
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Basic initial meanings Feel of reverence and its expression through physical gesture-body language-lowering of head in state chin moving towards chest and gaze going down. It is a relational word-a relationship between the Reverent and the Revered. Reverent and the Revered could be any object or person.
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Advanced meanings in the changed relational field when the Revered is the Only One-The Absolute-The Only Independent-The Self Subsisting-The Creator-The Supreme Exalted-Sovereign Sustainer Lord of the Universes, and the Reverent are all objects and living-all that exists in the created realm. Here the meanings, while retaining the basic perception, advance into its extreme limits-Prostration.
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Sublime and sincere Prostration of human beings-Bowing and curving to lay the forehead on the Earth denoting absolute surrender and sublime adoration.
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Laying of Forehead on ground relays non-verbal signal of surrender of granted Freedom and Will of decision and self governing to the Sustainer Lord.
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The Laying of Forehead on ground yields bridging the distance to get nearer to the Sustainer Lord.
Acknowledgement falls under category of feeling. Prostration is its expression.
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I have been thinking about this thread talk on what "sujood" means in the Quran. It is an interesting to see different views. Jkhan says "sujood" means following what Allah tells us in the Quran, not the action of bowing down. Mazhar believes it's about the physical act of bowing down, like when we pray.
Both of you have good points. But let's remember, whether it's bowing down or following Allah's words, both ways show our love and respect for Allah. It's like two sides of the same coin. Bowing down is a way to show humility and respect physically. Following Allah's guidance in our daily lives shows respect and love in our hearts and actions.
The main thing is, both ways are about listening to Allah and trying our best to do as He asks. That's what brings us together and what's most important.
Let's appreciate our different views.
It's obvious, you have not comprehended what I have written nor what SUJUD is in Quran and it is obvious SUJUD is physical for you but you are trying to be in between just in your confusion.. .. I have no issues whatever you do with Quran... Your actions are recorded and you are accountable .. But let me be clear to what you have written.. There is no two meaning to one word in one sentence in one place at a time.. And Allah has meant a meaning and look for it and it is our duty if we seek guidance... Guidance is not gonna reach us without our interest and our honesty towards it..
There is no BOTH here as you are trying to be in no man's land.. Remember.. I have no issues in your path and it is your life.. But I am explaining what Quran says.. Cuz you are not saying what Quran states cuz you say both (physically prostrating and Compliance) are good and both are right.. Impossible.. Allahs path is ONE.. We can't force a meaning to Allah's verses just thinking it is good since people are practicing and if we do so it will collapse whole concept of Quran .. ..
And I have brought almost all verses of SJD and explained what it means... So in case if you point any verses and claim it is physical I would probably address your concern but you have stated nothing from Quran but you are breaking the bread into two and share it... That's not me in my research of Quran... Look for truth and be firm on it and keep researching until certainity reaches to heart...
Again I reiterate.. I have nothing to do on what you do with the word of SJD in your life that's personal to you but word SJD is not personal but if there is a debate I will engage until I get clarity from the one who is in opposition.. Cuz truth is one..SJD is acknowledge / comply in entire Quran and it is simple word for any acknowledgement but with context it can become a hefty word..
... Pls next time bring your evidence and comprehensive research to substantiate your own point on the word SJD and not your allegiance to everything OR to appreciate ... It won't help at all.. Don't try to be a father in the church.. Your appreciation won't become the meaning of the word. Bring verses and speak what it means... That's debate.. That's worthy.. Note.. There is difference in opinion in life and in many subjects but Allah's Quran is not subjected to opinions but it's straight path and cannot blend differences... Seek that guidance from Allah.. Now.. One who is arrogant would say.. So are you right and we are wrong? That's the puzzle you need to solve if you are seeking guidance.. Check whether you are on right track.. doesn't Allah know who on right track is..
Don't feel bad on what I have written buy take the postie aspects..@ Mazhar...
Unfortunately it's not Shin... It's all about "Calamity is disclosed " -
Thank you, Jkhan, for your detailed insights and explanation regarding "sujood" in the Quran. I appreciate the depth of your understanding and the importance you place on grounding our discussions in Quranic evidence and thorough scholarship. My intention in exploring the concept of "sujood" was to highlight the various dimensions of submission to Allah, both in physical form and spiritual obedience.
Your emphasis on a singular interpretation based on comprehensive study reminds us of our collective pursuit of knowledge and guidance. -
8420-21 "So what is with them they do NOT BELIEVE,
And when the Qur'an is read to them, they do not SUJUD?"What does this verse state?
I do repeat a verse which I already brought in this topic.. Just reflect deeply and apply logic and beg for guidance ... Let the falsehood be exposed.. Isn't it what you want as a believer.. Let your falsehood come out and let the truth prevail in your life.. Don't be a hamper to your own guidance... Don't let Satan grip you... Allow your soul to reach well deserved Allah's guidance and don't chase it while it knocks your heart..
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4829
"Muhammad is A Messenger of Allah, and those with him are intense over the disbelievers, amicable among themselves. You observe them humbly acknowledging/honoring (SJD), seeking grace / preference from Allah and pleasure. Their characteristics (Seema) are on their countenances / expressions (wajha) from the effects (Azthar) of HONORING /ACKNOWLEDGING (SJD) . ......"
The above verse is quite famous amongst conventional Muslims as well to come to a resolute conclusion that Sujud is physical.. But indeed No.. SJD is not PROSTRATION... Allah elaborates the life style of Mohamed (messenger of Allah) and his believing companions.. They were very intense but they have quality of being amicable as well. And they had quality of humility thus HONORING God.. Why? Yes they seek Grace / Preference of Allah and thus His pleasure.. Indeed a believer can gain by humbling and HONORING the God, the grace and pleasure of Allah.. That's how they were.. Cuz of this they were different. Their appearance/behaviour all ... How..? They had characteristics visible in their complete expressions as a result of constant effects of truly ACKNOWLEDGING / HONORING Allah... Easy to recognise them as true believers by looking at them cuz their every action resonates it... Simply in a nutshell TRUTHFUL people.. Yeah.. Like you can easily recognise hypocrites when you are with them mingling in life... Actions speak louder...
Salam..
One questions me that above verse is so obvious they have physical mark on their forehead and I am adament and changing the clear meaning.. Nope..trry to grasp it within Quran and not outside..If the mark is physical, would only those who prostrate to Allah get this mark? Would not those who prostrate to other deities on a daily basis get this MARK on forehead? Whats wrong with your logic?
But true believers to Allah alone would get what the verse states and none other.. -
In understanding the full verse provides clearer insight into the intentions and outcomes expected when following God’s message.
4829...."Thus are they described in the Torah. And their parable in the Gospel is that of a tilth that puts forth its shoot, then strengthens it so that it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem. This is a sight pleasing to the sowers and one by which the unbelievers will be enraged. As for those who believe and do righteous deeds, Allah has promised them forgiveness and a great reward".
Indeed, the verse 4829 emphasizes the characteristics and personalities of the Prophet's companions. The inner peace and real happiness that they obtain as a result of this are apparent from their faces
Likes of which is also seen here 8324 "You will recognize in their faces the radiance of pleasure"So its definitely not talking about a "prayer bump" or zebibah, a patch of hardened skin that can develop on the forehead from the frequent contact with the ground during Islamic prayers.
From even conventional Islamic sources, I was not able to find any authentic hadith that explicitly mention the Prophet Muhammad having a prayer bump (zebibah) on his forehead.
That being said, it's important to clarify that these points do not invalidate the Islamic prayers that Muslims perform daily, whether three or five times. This conversation should not lead us to question the validity of the physical prayers practiced by many Muslims. I firmly believe that as I stand in physical form of prayer before my creator, the rituals only truly make sense when I consistently apply God's message to my daily life.
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In understanding the full verse provides clearer insight into the intentions and outcomes expected when following God’s message.
4829...."Thus are they described in the Torah. And their parable in the Gospel is that of a tilth that puts forth its shoot, then strengthens it so that it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem. This is a sight pleasing to the sowers and one by which the unbelievers will be enraged. As for those who believe and do righteous deeds, Allah has promised them forgiveness and a great reward".
Indeed, the verse 4829 emphasizes the characteristics and personalities of the Prophet's companions. The inner peace and real happiness that they obtain as a result of this are apparent from their faces
Likes of which is also seen here 8324 "You will recognize in their faces the radiance of pleasure"So its definitely not talking about a "prayer bump" or zebibah, a patch of hardened skin that can develop on the forehead from the frequent contact with the ground during Islamic prayers.
From even conventional Islamic sources, I was not able to find any authentic hadith that explicitly mention the Prophet Muhammad having a prayer bump (zebibah) on his forehead.
That being said, it's important to clarify that these points do not invalidate the Islamic prayers that Muslims perform daily, whether three or five times. This conversation should not lead us to question the validity of the physical prayers practiced by many Muslims. I firmly believe that as I stand in physical form of prayer before my creator, the rituals only truly make sense when I consistently apply God's message to my daily life.
Yes... Of course QURAN never invalidates any ritualistic prayers people have invented and needless too...
Quran is Allahs message and unique and the path to follow and didn't descend to correct each and every human religion but to herald the Path Allah in order for those who believe in Allah to follow so impulsively they will realize what is path of Satan..
It's like, Quran never invalidates following Hadith but QURAN has the path then decide whether Hadith is path or not ... Quran speaks the truth and believers are to realize them and choose and follow thus they naturally invalidate all falsehood cuz they follow path of Allah from His communication.. When following PATH OF ALLAH falsehood is invalidated naturally.. I know my explanation won't give any weight to people who ritually pray but definitely who understood the true meaning of SUJUD would.. I don't blame.. I was one of those who did physically sujud for ages... May Allah guides to His true path.. That's all I wish for my fellow believers.. I may sound little awkward while you people have different opinions and that too much loved and embraced options and practices... It's okay.. When Allah opens His mercy falsehood can be easily detached..Thank you wonderful people. Keep researching..
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In below verses Allah is not surprised that the disbelievers not PROSTRATE PHYSICALLY but Allah definitely questions why they not ACKNOWLEDGE the Quran while it is the truth...
Quran 8420-21
"So, what is with them they do not believe, and when the Qur'an is read to them, they do not ACKNOWLEDGE / HONOR (SJD) ?"So.. As a believer when Quran is read to them it is imperative that they should acknowledge /honor.... Isn't it.. Believers are not same like disbelievrs? That's why in famous salah verse 4102 it is stated as under
"And when you are among them and lead for them Salah (Connection ie Quran revelation session) , let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have acknowledged /honored (SJD) , let them be BEHIND you ....... .. "
It is indeed mandatory to acknowledge when Quran is recited or read ... The main purpose of Salah is to reveal Quran to believers and the Quran revelation session (salah) ends with acknowlwdgement / Honoring by believers and not with denial. ..
In below verses Allah is not surprised that the disbelievers not PROSTRATE PHYSICALLY but Allah definitely questions why they not ACKNOWLEDGE the Quran while it is the truth...
Quran 8420-21
"So, what is with them they do not believe, and when the Qur'an is read to them, they do not ACKNOWLEDGE / HONOR (SJD) ?"So.. As a believer when Quran is read to them it is imperative that they should acknowledge /honor.... Isn't it.. Believers are not same like disbelievrs? That's why in famous salah verse 4102 it is stated as under
"And when you are among them and lead for them Salah (Connection ie Quran revelation session) , let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have acknowledged /honored (SJD) , let them be behind you ....... .. "
It is indeed mandatory to acknowledge when Quran is recited or read ... The main purpose of Salah is to reveal Quran to believers and the Quran revelation session (salah) ends with acknowlwdgement / Honoring by believers and not with denial. ..
Very crucial point I was wondering.. Apply all your sense people.. Word BEHIND in the verse 4102...Do you get what I am trying to say.. Well.. Let me explain.. Conevtionally taken two groups.. One is praying with the Leader the messenger and others Alert standing..
But conventionally prayers are performed the leader stand upfront and those who pray with the leader stands BEHIND him.. But in this verse command to those who are to be ALERT to be BEHIND the leader (messenger)... That's too weird..it seems everyone (two groups) are behind the messenger.. Lol..
But extreme truth is Quran revelation session is in process... Messenger is leading facing a group who are facing him... And the Alert group is BEHIND the messenger patrolling and if anyone to attack the only path is to come from behind the messenger but group is guarding...I know the word min waraikum is plural .... Further. Verse doesn't say let the praying group be behind YOU... but stated min ma'aKA.. with you... It shows a gathering face to faces..
Anyway you have your understanding.. -
Peace jkhan,
Interesting thread, when folks during prayer put their foreheads on their prayer rugs,
what do you call that position. Just asking handshakeGod bless you
peace
Salam..
Nothing interesting in the topic.. It's all about understanding truth..As you are well aware.. It's called PHYSICAL PROSTRATION.. in Arabic they call SUJUD.. Regardless any religious faith if they do such positions it is same. ..
