A question regarding 11:114
-
Salamun alaikum all,
My question is particularly to those who share the views of brother Ayman's insightful analysis on 2 salats per day.
The word "Zulafun" according to my reading of it in Arabic with the proper tashkeel is no doubt in the plural form, thus I do not wish to argue on this point here.
However, the word "Tarafai an nahar" is stated in the dual form of Taraf indicating both ends of the day (thus 2 prayers) where as "Zulafun" is not used in the dual form, but refers to 3 or more parts.
Why not? IF the understnading is that "Zulafun" is in reference to the previously mentioned 2 prayers indicating that htey should be done in the near part of the night, then why isnt the dual form "Zulafaan" or "Zulfataan" also used instead of the plural indicating 3 or more instances? I may have understood this incorrectly which is why I ask this quesiton. Thanks.
Peace,
Omar
-
11112-15
So stand straight as you were commanded and those who repented with you and do not transgress. He is watcher over what you do.And you shall not lean towards those who have wronged else you will incur the Fire; and you will not have besides the god any allies, and you will not be victorious.
And thou shall keep the relation straight at both parts of the day and the near part of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.
And be patient, for the god does not waste the reward of the good doers.
Peace omar_e19,
The above is my personnal translation from the arabic verses. I hope you will compare it to other translations if you don't read arabic, and read all the context to have a better view.
I hope this provides an answer to your question.
--
-
Peace,
Your translation is incorrect as I indicated the word "Zulafan" is referring to a minimum of "3 near parts of the night." The arguement presented by some liek brother Ayman and Edip, is that it is referring to the salat being done at both ends of the day and that these should also be done at the closer part of the night... in other words before sunrise when it is still dark and before it completely night after sunset. My problem is that this is referring to 3 near parts and not 2. But thanks for trying to help out. Peace,
Omar
-
in one of my dics i have read that anaa layli we atrafa nahari might denote continuity/persistence- an idiom meaning again and again or continous upholding of something and not literal times....
given the context of 11114 tarafayinehari wa zulafan minalayli might well mean the same...
there are other idioms in the book for example mornings and evenings ( bil guduwi wal asal or bil ashiyyi wal ibkar or bukratan we aseela )etc.)that mean again and again and not the times in literal sense
best wishes
Zlatan
-
Peace,
In examining the idiom of 'again and again' I can't see why you don't see the natural implication of the extra shade of meaning. You are trying to create a non timed salat - which fits with your desire to make this a non physical event.
It means at the two ends of the day again and again and again. That is to say it is not the two ends of one day, or one week or one month - but continuously throughout one's life.
Each and every day, twice a day.
Regards.
-
2437 Men who are not distracted by business or sale from remembering God, and observing the Salaah, and giving the Zakaah. They fear a Day when the hearts and sight shall be overturned.
I think, that this verse makes it clear, why the view of upholding Salaah twice a day is wrong. Simply becasue before sun rise and before sun set there is no time for trade/sale/business/commerce,etc... These activities are usually during the day-light
-
Peace sabo,
629 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
6210 Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek GOD's bounties, and continue to remember GOD frequently, that you may succeed.
6211 When some of them come across a business deal, or some entertainment, they rush to it and leave you standing! Say, "What GOD possesses is far better than the entertainment or the business. GOD is the best Provider."
Salat al-Jumuah -> The Salat Gathering
A communal salat to which one is called requires the leaving of business. Doesn't matter if it's Friday or any other agreed day or time. Suffice to say it is from the context within the daytime.
So the verse you have presented does not invalidate or nullify the requirement of a timed salat.
Regards.
-
Salaam
2437 Men who are not distracted by business or sale from remembering God, and observing the Salaah, and giving the Zakaah. They fear a Day when the hearts and sight shall be overturned.
I think, that this verse makes it clear, why the view of upholding Salaah twice a day is wrong. Simply becasue before sun rise and before sun set there is no time for trade/sale/business/commerce,etc... These activities are usually during the day-light
How can giving zekaah distract someone's business? I mean, prayer can but zekaah can not. You can ask someone to give it for you too. That makes no sense. Therefore zekaah is purification in this verse.
024.036 (Lit is such a Light) in houses, which Allah hath permitted to be raised to honour; for the celebration, in them, of His name In them is He GLORIFIED in the mornings and in the evenings, (again and again),-
024.037 By men whom neither traffic nor merchandise can divert from the Remembrance of Allah, nor from the commitment (of glorifying Allah), nor from the purification Their (only) fear is for the Day when hearts and eyes will be transformed (in a world wholly new),-
Peace....
-
Salaam
629 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
6210 Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek GOD's bounties, and continue to remember GOD frequently, that you may succeed.
6211 When some of them come across a business deal, or some entertainment, THEY RUSH TO IT AND LEAVE YOU STANDING! Say, "What GOD possesses is far better than the entertainment or the business. GOD is the best Provider."
Where did they leave the prophet standing? In his prayers or in his oration?
I don't know maybe Arabs had some traditions in the late hours of the night or something.Peace...
-
Salaam once again
It means at the two ends of the day again and again and again. That is to say it is not the two ends of one day, or one week or one month - but continuously throughout one's life.
But that ayat is addressed to the prophet.
033.045 O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner,-
005.067 O Messenger! proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.
068.004 And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character.
Why do you think that 11114 is for all believers but the ayats I listed are not. According to the ayats above we are all prophets of a very high character HE had to do it throughout his life, not us.
Peace...
-
Salam Servant,
So the verse you have presented does not invalidate or nullify the requirement of a timed salat.
I didn't mean that, I was adressing the issue of two timed salaah per day, and this is according to my understanding of 2437 wrong. I think its more than twice per day.
Best regards,
sabo -
peace omar, all,
Please see the following thread in which a possible answer was given
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=971
Secondly
2437 Men who are not distracted by business or sale from remembering God, and observing the Salaah, and giving the Zakaah. They fear a Day when the hearts and sight shall be overturned.
I think, that this verse makes it clear, why the view of upholding Salaah twice a day is wrong. Simply becasue before sun rise and before sun set there is no time for trade/sale/business/commerce,etc... These activities are usually during the day-light
This statement makes no sense to me. Before sunset is still regarded as day-light as far as I'm aware.
In any case, my view is it should be done before & after the working day, and this is individual. It is an oration/reading (public or private).
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/slw.htmWakas
-
Salam Wakas,
my view is it should be done before & after the working day
Well, I don't agree with this statement because it contradicts 2437. 2437 implies that its also during the working hours of the day, which is the reason why work/business shouldn't distract us from salaah
Best regards,
sabo -
peace be upon you sabo,
Well, I don't agree with this statement because it contradicts 2437. 2437 implies that its also during the working hours of the day, which is the reason why work/business shouldn't distract us from salaah
Thats what I thought you meant, however your initial comment made no sense (to me). I can understand your thoughts but the following has to be considered
the previous sign mentions "morning & evening", not during the middle of the working day. This weakens your understanding. Unless one takes it as an idiomatic expression meaning "again & again" which is also plausible.
I do not think that every occurrence of salaah refers to the timed/regular oration/reading/salaah. Thus, for me, its an assumption to apply it in this sign, but I think its possible to do so.
Even if it is 2x per day, like I said "before & after the working day" it is still possible to be distracted by trade/sale from upholding the regular/timed slw. I can easily imagine a trader wishing to open earlier and capture the early business or stay open later for the same reason. This happens in the UK, in which the usual working day is 9am-5pm but some businesses open slightly earlier & later than this, for this very reason.
There are countries (mainly extreme North) in which the working day is not determined by the daylight hours, and an artificial "working day" is set.
For your understanding to work, you must also accept "giving the zakaah" is only done during the working hours of the day.
For these reasons, I personally wouldn't call 2437 "clear" in contradicting the 2x per day argument. Its a possibility.
I respect your opinion however.
Wakas
-
in one of my dics i have read that anaa layli we atrafa nahari might denote continuity/persistence- an idiom meaning again and again or continous upholding of something and not literal times....
given the context of 11114 tarafayinehari wa zulafan minalayli might well mean the same...
there are other idioms in the book for example mornings and evenings ( bil guduwi wal asal or bil ashiyyi wal ibkar or bukratan we aseela )etc.)that mean again and again and not the times in literal sense
best wishes
Zlatan
Peace Zlatan, all
Indeed, we are to be straight all the day and some part of the night, not only at a specific moment for a limited period.
The VERB "aqimoo" in 11114 is the one defining the ACTION. And the action is "to keep straight" or "to straighten".
There is no praying in that verse nor any form of ritual. It's asking us to keep THE RELATION straight. One may ask, which relation is it?
--
-
Peace all,
The salat is a timed Book for the believer. Tthe salat at dawn and at dusk is one of the aspect of the salat concept.
Innasalata kanat alal muminiina kitaban mawqoota dont have necessary to reffer to dawn and dusk...
imo it can mean, and i have heard it from mirgani hamad, a relatively good knower of arabic, a few years ago...
the(that,this, mentioned) salat has become prescribed to believers at certain point of time
more clearly ....
at certain point of the time(one day) the salat has become prescribed....
possible meaning in context
the(mentioned) commitement/duty/obligation/upholding of fighting (or hijra)has become duty of believers at certain point of time....
best wishes
Zlatan
excuse my poor english
-
4100-103
--
Peace,
We should keep the context in mind while deriving a meaning of a word.
Please, do also have a look at the different meanings of the 2 verbs "qada'" (to rule, decree, judge))and "aqa'ma" (to straighten).
"Mawqoutan" on the other hand can also mean "concordant / coherent" or "well-tuned" or maybe even "tunable capable of being tuned".
Just some observations.
--
-
Peace,
4101 When you are traveling through the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the congregations of prayers (alssalati), if you fear that the rejecters of the Truth may attack you. Verily, the rejecters are an open enemy to you.
In 4103 O Messenger! When you are with them reffers to the believers not the disbelievers, the salat is a scheleded book only for the believers.
4103 So when you have finished/completed (qadaytumu) the salat, then remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. And when you are once again secure, establish (aqeemoo) the congregations of Salat. Joining the congregations of Salat at the times appointed by the Central Authority is a duty unto believers.
The verb qada is also used in 2200, 4629
-
When you have completed (qadaytum) your rites, then remember God as you remember your fathers or even greater. From among the people are those who Say ?Our Lord, give us from this world!?, but in the Hereafter he has no part.
-
And We sent to you a small number of Jinn, in order to let them listen to the Quran. So when they arrived there, they said ?Pay attention.? Then, when it was finished(qudiya), they returned to their people, to warn them.
629 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When the salat is announced on the Day of the Congregation, hasten to the remembrance of Allah and leave your commerce. That is for your own good if you use your knowledge to understand.
6210 And when the salat is ended (qudiyati), disperse freely in the land and seek of Allah?s Bounty. And remember Allah often so that you may prosper.
The salat is a schelded book could refer both to the salat on the Day of the Congregation and the salat at dawn and dusk, IMHO.
The goal is to remember the God during the salat and after it."and the remembrance of God is the greatest"
-
