Questions on Ritual Salah

jkhan

Some are asking me that 2945 is salah or not?... Let me explain..

2945
"Recite (tā lām wāw ت ل و what is revealed to you of the Book and establish connection / integrity Indeed, connection (salah) prevents immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater, and Allah knows that which you do."

If you look at the above verse, most would say yes read Quran and perform salah... That's how we are programmed..
If you take word tā lām wāw as RECITE here ..fine.. Of course this word has a meaning of RECITE... but it has other meanings as well which Quran specifically used.. But actual meaning in this verse is PURSUE like in some other verses of Quran..

"Pursue what is revealed to you of the book, and establish connection / integrity (salah), indeed connection/integrity (salah) prevents immoralities and evils, and the remembrance of Allah is greater and Allah knows that what you do."

Ritual salah never even has the capacity to prevent immoralities and evils.. It's just a movement of body... But this (salah) connection / integrity with Allah is a powerful weapon and its truthful and stands as a barricade in your heart and thus it keeps away immoralities and evils... But in the same verse Allah states more than the Connection /Salah, the Remembrance / Zikr Allah is great.. Cuz connection is kind of fear and respect but remembering Allah is indeed greater...

Note I don't see those who do ritual salah are with pure characters void of immoralities and evils.. It doesn't help.. At least I have seen people who try hard to prevent some basic evils from dawn to dusk while doing fasting just to safeguard their fasting but they do all evils cuz they not even aware what immoralities and evils are.. They are restricted only with sex but all evils in business and in general life and in heart never faded off..

Nothing prevents immoralities and evils except Connection (Salah) to Allah... And Allah didn't even mention that Siyam prevents immoralities and evils..
** some conventional Muslims do have Connection / salah with Allah for sure but they never believed in Allah without associating to Allah. . That's unfortunate..

Fusion

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that verse and the bigger picture about Salah and remembering Allah. It really got me thinking about how deep and complex our faith is, and how we're all trying to better understand and live by its teachings.

You made a good point about how just going through the motions with rituals isn't enough if we're not truly feeling it in our hearts. It's all about that real, deep connection with Allah, which is what really guides us to be better.

But, I also think that the physical side of these rituals, like doing Ritual Salah, has its own importance. It's not just about moving our bodies; it's a way to show our love and respect for Allah with both our minds and our physical actions. Like in the Quran, in Chapter 73, Verses 1 to 3, it talks about the special vibe of praying at night and how it's a quiet time for reflection. It shows how our physical actions in worship can really support our spiritual growth.
73
O you wrapped ˹in your clothes˺!
Stand all night except a little
half the night, or a little less,
or a little more—and recite the Quran in a measured way
We will soon send upon you a weighty revelation.
Indeed, worship in the night is more impactful and suitable for recitation.

Also, it's key we don't lump all Muslims together or think we're all the same, which can end up dividing us. It's like how some people might have a narrow view of Muslims based on stereotypes based on our own personal observations alone. We should remember that what really matters is what's in our hearts, and Allah knows that best. Sometimes, even when we're trying to get it right, we might end up feeling like we know better than others, but really, it's about being sincere and doing our best to follow Allah's guidance.

About the verse you mentioned (2945), when you look into it, it's really about how following Allah's guidance isn't just about personal rituals but about setting up a way of life that helps everyone. It's about being fair, kind, and looking out for each other, which is what Islam is all about.

The way you explained that verse really highlights how Islam teaches us to live in a way that's not just good for us but good for everyone around us. It's about stopping selfishness and making sure we're all working together for the greater good.

So, yes, our faith is about finding that balance between feeling that connection with Allah in our hearts and also living it out in our actions and how we treat others.

Let's keep the conversation going and keep learning from each other. It's all about getting closer to Allah and understanding the true meaning of our faith.

jkhan

Some are asking me that 2945 is salah or not?... Let me explain..

2945
"Recite (tā lām wāw ت ل و what is revealed to you of the Book and establish connection / integrity Indeed, connection (salah) prevents immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater, and Allah knows that which you do."

If you look at the above verse, most would say yes read Quran and perform salah... That's how we are programmed..
If you take word tā lām wāw as RECITE here ..fine.. Of course this word has a meaning of RECITE... but it has other meanings as well which Quran specifically used.. But actual meaning in this verse is PURSUE like in some other verses of Quran..

"Pursue what is revealed to you of the book, and establish connection / integrity (salah), indeed connection/integrity (salah) prevents immoralities and evils, and the remembrance of Allah is greater and Allah knows that what you do."

Ritual salah never even has the capacity to prevent immoralities and evils.. It's just a movement of body... But this (salah) connection / integrity with Allah is a powerful weapon and its truthful and stands as a barricade in your heart and thus it keeps away immoralities and evils... But in the same verse Allah states more than the Connection /Salah, the Remembrance / Zikr Allah is great.. Cuz connection is kind of fear and respect but remembering Allah is indeed greater...

Note I don't see those who do ritual salah are with pure characters void of immoralities and evils.. It doesn't help.. At least I have seen people who try hard to prevent some basic evils from dawn to dusk while doing fasting just to safeguard their fasting but they do all evils cuz they not even aware what immoralities and evils are.. They are restricted only with sex but all evils in business and in general life and in heart never faded off..

Nothing prevents immoralities and evils except Connection (Salah) to Allah... And Allah didn't even mention that Siyam prevents immoralities and evils..
** some conventional Muslims do have Connection / salah with Allah for sure but they never believed in Allah without associating to Allah. . That's unfortunate..

Salam everyone..
Just reflect.. No compulsion at all.. I only remind with Quran..

3117
(Luqman said) "O my son! establish CONNECTION / INTEGRITY (SALAH), and carry out what is good and restrain what is evil, and be perseverant over whatever befalls you. Indeed, that is the conduct of determination"

In fact the wise Luqman was instructing and teaching his son who Allah is and His strength and abilities and then he instructs with the above statement (3117) and not directly command his son to do ritual prayer... Luqman already explained what God is to his son. .
Now luqman politely instructs his son to cultivate CONNECTION / INTEGRITY (salah) with Allah and to carry out good and restrain evil.. Of course while doing so much difficulties would encounter and wisely advised to be patient and persevere with self determination and that tests a will power of a person.
Luqman introduced Allah to his son in a perfect and wise manner...

If I ever have sons or daughters in my life God willing I would do the same and it is perfect kick off for a kid... And not take him or her to Masjeds and do rituals.. No way..

Note before reading verse 3117 pls read Luqman's advices to his son in previous verses and also continue reading up to 3119 for better clarity.. ...

Wakas

peace all,

A common objection to the traditional understanding of salat=prayer is does it really prevent immorality and bad deeds? The argument is given that if done right/sincerely then yes it should prevent such. Perhaps but here is a better translation of 2945

Recite what has been revealed to you of the writ/book and uphold the salat, Indeed the salat forbids from the immorality and bad deeds; and surely the remembrance/mentioning of God is greatest and God knows what you do.

Clearly if salat forbids XYZ then it must involve information relay i.e. conveying what is forbidden. It then begins to make sense, see articles below.

Background
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran_on_salat.htm
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html

Emre_1974tr

Yes, physical salaat also purifies people physically and helps to keep them away from evil. You get a similar effect when you consume superfoods like ginseng. But the effect of salaat in this regard is completely different.

Physical salah is also our daily food. Anyone who does not perform this act of worship is doing himself a disservice in every sense of the word, he is persecuting himself.

An atheist I know in Turkey started salah just because of these benefits.

Salah purifies and cleanses you from the narcissistic energy network also. It reduces the effects of human and jinn demons on you.

jkhan

1081-2
"Verily we have given you (AlKawzhar) the treasure."
"So, get connected (salli) to your Lord and be upfront"

Here the treasure is Quran which is abundance of knowledge and wisdom and guidance... So have the connection to the Lord and be upfront in order that you can dismantle enemies (satan and men)

@Waqas..
Forbid instead of refrain / desist / prevent ??

Emre_1974tr

Yes, physical salaat also purifies people physically and helps to keep them away from evil. You get a similar effect when you consume superfoods like ginseng. But the effect of salaat in this regard is completely different.

Physical salah is also our daily food. Anyone who does not perform this act of worship is doing himself a disservice in every sense of the word, he is persecuting himself.

An atheist I know in Turkey started salah just because of these benefits.

Salah purifies and cleanses you from the narcissistic energy network also. It reduces the effects of human and jinn demons on you.

Physical salaat not only treats and develops your character, but also makes a positive contribution to your physical health and happiness.

He/she who does not salah loses a lot. I have not even mentioned prayer, obligation and other parts.

Mazhar

http//haqeeqat.pk/banners/time.png

Sociality is the fundamental characteristic of the created realm, matter and life both. Nothing can exist in isolation and at its own. However, Man needs to be given training and skills required for functioning successfully in the society. The par excellent social activity - event is the socialization of the Subject with the Lord-King-Sovereign. The affectionate Sovereign is he who affords opportunities to his subjects to be in his presence occasionally for sometime for paying homage and seeking blessings of him. The subjects gain strength, feel of security and confidence by being in the House of the Sovereign. It becomes subject's pride.

We as social beings living in societies and states are well aware of the protocols of Subject-Lord Contact. Timings are determined by the Lord. The Subject is required to follow the prescribed dress code and manners of speech and gestures while in the premises of Lord.

Universe is the State of the Sustainer Lord of all the created realm and we are the resident subjects of it. The Sustainer Lord, Allah the Exalted has prescribed and made it mandatory for us to contact Him everyday at intervals. This is called in ArabicAsSalat The time bound Protocol of Servitude and Allegiance.

http//haqeeqat.pk/Salat.htm

good_logic

Peace All.
Those who accept the Qoran will go on to read/study it

Read, and your Lord, Most Exalted.
اقرَأ وَرَبُّكَ الأَكرَمُ
Teaches by means of the pen.
الَّذى عَلَّمَ بِالقَلَمِ
He teaches the human what he never knew.
عَلَّمَ الإِنسٰنَ ما لَم يَعلَم

Then ask for guidance, Your Lord tests everyone

Indeed, the human transgresses.
كَلّا إِنَّ الإِنسٰنَ لَيَطغىٰ

The most important basis is our works , social responsibilities and intentions /behaviour. Freedom of choice is paramount and a right to each one of us from our Lord.
What harm comes from prayer and fasting since they are personal and do not infringe on anyone s right? Are we still debating like the past generations and not learning on what is dividing us?

I rather highlight the things that unite and refrain from what divides. Our understanding of GOD s message is subject to GOD s knowledge not ours. GOD is the teacher of Qoran

Then each can follow their own guidance according to their own assessment by the Lord only

To your Lord is the ultimate destiny.
إِنَّ إِلىٰ رَبِّكَ الرُّجعىٰ
Have you seen the one who enjoins.
أَرَءَيتَ الَّذى يَنهىٰ
Others from "Salla"?
عَبدًا إِذا صَلّىٰ
Is it not better for him to follow the guidance?
أَرَءَيتَ إِن كانَ عَلَى الهُدىٰ
Or advocate righteousness?
أَو أَمَرَ بِالتَّقوىٰ

However , the debate continues for those who think there are issues with personal relationships with the Lord and His subjects.
Once on the straight path ,one follows righteousness first and advocate it as a priority. This is what unites all the believers.
The devotion to GOD and the personal relationships with the Lord come in stages to consolidate the belief and the character and is ongoing.

I benefit from fasting and connecting daily with my Lord. I do not see it as a rigid task/ritual . My Lord has no needs and everything I try to do is for my benefit or detriment.

Since I am entitled to my freedom of choice I have to accept that others have theirs also.
GOD bless you all.
Peace

jkhan

Salam everyone..

8714 Certainly succeeded he who purified (Zaka).

8715 And remembered name of his Lord and got connected (Salla)

Most would connect with God but for self benefit and to crave for their distress and then connection is disconnected and they are not constant in their connection... Just pretending / showing off.. Selfish.. That's why Allah said woe to those who got connected..

Through the constant connection with Allah, souls /self get purified and that's why Allah has always used Sala and zaka... Allah could have said Akimu salah wa'athu sadaqa at least once... Allah knows what the word is what He meant.. Allah has used establish connection and they spend from what we have provided.. That's absolutely fine.. But never Akim sala wa'athu sadaqa... Cuz zaka is not a charity it's purity / purification ...and the one who truly establishes connection with Allah indeed bringsforth purity..

@brother GL..
I understand your statement.. Everyone's action is in Allah's hand.. He knows the guided ones.. But my lovely brother Quran is guidance for those conscious.. When Allah has stated something in Quran it has its unique meaning and it cannot be taken for granted.. The believers will be guided with it for sure.. Cuz Allah won't misguide true believers.. If one takes salah as ritual bodily movement with few arabic statements from Quran and from their own as well and uttering them in salah and another takes it as Connection ie strong relationship / bond of integrity with Allah.. There cannot be done division in Allah's guidance.. Question is what did Allah mean by Salah? Just Believing in Allah and cultivated connection with Allah has huge difference..
Indeed Salah keeps immoralities and evils at bay.. Cuz of this connection / bond / relationship with Allah truely..
One can have connection with anyone.. Connections are common.. But when that connection is utmost and real, then story is different.. Let me bring few analogy to bring to light better..
For example.. If a husband has cultivated true connection / bond / relationship which is full of integrity then even any woman try to seduce him, would not work out cuz his wife's face will come infront of him cuz the connection is too strong.. His heart not allow to betray and sever connection.. He refrains..
Similarly.. If two guys truly became friends and their connection cultivated to its pristine quality and everything is transparent then their bond / relationship is inseparable and genuine and falsehood won't creep in.. But imagine connection is selfish or transitory or target oriented etc etc so this connection won't last and even it lasts it's not real...
Salah to Allah should be constant and humble and with integrity so that Allah gets connected with us even Malika ...
So to cultivate such a connection one doesn't need to do a ritual .okay don't call it ritual if you prefer but still we do bodily postures to get connected to Allah . Why? it won't work out.. Our heart should get connected 24/7 ... Thus we should feel we are not betraying our connection when attempting an evil.. Cuz the one we are connected with doesn't like evil be performed.. So why we refrain that evil cuz of our relationship with Allah.. If one is constant like that indeed he will get purified impulsively...

7023 "They upon their Connection (Salah) constant "

Moreover brother GL.. It's not about harming others.. Yes rituals of anyone won't harm mostly others and so personal but question is has Allah commanded and is that a guidance?

Sometimes my brother GL.. You might have connected well and truly with God but not with five times bodily movement but in reality you are already connected OR cultivating a true bond OR relationship but unfortunately something is propelling you to do rituals too... You have already connection...
Seek guidance... And nourish the soul.

Emre_1974tr

Physical salaat not only treats and develops your character, but also makes a positive contribution to your physical health and happiness.

He/she who does not salah loses a lot. I have not even mentioned prayer, obligation and other parts.

It is heresy to deny and avoid Physical salaat

Especially if you say negative things against it, it shows that you are not really a Muslim anyway.

By the way, another benefit of salaat is that it protects you from the effects of narcissistic energy vampires.

jkhan

245
"And seek help through perseverance /patience and connection (salah) and certainly, it is difficult except for the humbled ones (Khashiun) "

The Arabic word Khashiun is directly used in 232 with salah like "they are who in their connection (Salah) are humble" and here in 245 directly used to the character of the person itself..

Here perseverance /patience is correlated with Salah (connection) when it comes to seek Help from Allah.. Life is a journey with full of tests.. Believers point of view, If you lose patience it can create havoc.. Losing patience means your connection to Allah can be disconnected ...
Allah says at the end it is difficult but not for those Khashiun (humbled people) ..
Is performing ritual salah difficult?.. Very intricate and tough rituals are practiced by most religious people in the world.. They walk on knees, they role around on their bodies rounding their deities and even they harm their own physic.. Most easier to pray five times a day hardly five to 10 mints for a session.. But word used by Allah is (Kabeer) ie painstakingly difficult / utmost hard.. Not only salat but combination of both Salah and Sabr (Connection + patience).. Yes indeed it is difficult to those who love this world's life... Cuz tests of life will deviate them from whatever patience and connection they would have... Burdens of tests / life can easily slacken the connection and patimce.. But the humbled ones will maintain connection and perseverance constantly in all his tests.. There can be level of how one maintains and it depends how strong his Iman / Faith in God... All believers level is not same..

Now look at the verse again and reflect ... Is PATIENCE a ritual ? NO... Then why SALAH a ritual? Does Allah say us to seek HELP (whatever) through Non-ritual PATIENCE and Ritual salah ie bodily postures ? Nope..
Allah instructs us to seek help with full commitment of patience and constant connection to Allah and in the end in black and white finished the verse stating it's DIFFICULT... Except a group of people.. They know well it is not difficult. It could have been sort of difficult but not after they cultivated strong bond with Allah..

jkhan

314
"Those who establish connection (salah) and bringforth purity (zakah), and they, in the Hereafter are certain"

Okay... I brought the above verse in order to unearth logic perhaps.. we can reflect.. Let's take it in conventional translation.. So it says those pray and give obligatory charity ARE CERTAIN IN THE HEREAFTER.. Question is why? Does that mean rich people who pray and give Zakath are certain of hereafter? Not others? Every laymen can perform ritual salah /prayers but not everyone can give Zakath whatever it is and no clue from Quran what to give as Zakath while sadaqa is detailed in black and white.. Not giving any sense to me while the successful one is who purifies his soul 919...

Okay let's see whether the above true translation makes sense. Connection is cultivated with Allah and he became a purified soul and this person is indeed certain in the hereafter... Doesn't it make sense?

To make translation of conventional belief even worse, Allah has revealed a verse like below ..

417

"Those who do not bringforth purity (zakah), and they, in the Hereafter are disbelieving."

Now let's take the above verse in conventional way... Yes.. Not giving obligatory charity then you disbeliever in the hereafter.. Why only Zakath becomes criteria to deduce disbelievers in the hereafter.. ?
Unconditionally, not classifying rich or poor Allah has stated those who not GIVE ZAKATH they disbelievers in the hereafter...
The truth is as 919 states regardless rich or poor everyone has to purify (zaka) his soul and failing to bring forth purification in indeed in the hereafter disbelievers... Their only life is Dunya...

Note the wording of both verses and it's last statement.. As under

314 " ...they in the hereafter certain.. " = Purified person
417 " ... they in the hereafter disbelieving" = Not purified one

good_logic

brother jkhan.

Arabic is used by GOD for Qoran for a precise and specific reason. Definitions of words that come from the same root can vary and may mean a different thing altogether.
Why translate "Salat", "The Salat" or "Aquimi Salat" as the same thing? For example

Here are three verses that have these 3 words, yet different context and meanings
1-7320
Your Lord knows that you stay up/meditate... تَقومُ أَدنىٰ مِن ثُلُثَىِ الَّيلِ , or half of it, or one-third of it, and so do some of those who believed with you. God has designed the night and the day, and He knows that you cannot always do this. He has pardoned you. Instead, you shall read what you can of the Quran. He knows that some of you may be ill, others may be traveling in pursuit of God's provisions, and others may be striving in the cause of God. You shall read what you can of it, and observe the Salat, give the Zakat , and lend God a loan of righteousness. Whatever good you send ahead on behalf of your souls, you will find it at God far better and generously rewarded. And implore God for forgiveness. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
إِنَّ رَبَّكَ يَعلَمُ أَنَّكَ تَقومُ أَدنىٰ مِن ثُلُثَىِ الَّيلِ وَنِصفَهُ وَثُلُثَهُ وَطائِفَةٌ مِنَ الَّذينَ مَعَكَ وَاللَّهُ يُقَدِّرُ الَّيلَ وَالنَّهارَ عَلِمَ أَن لَن تُحصوهُ فَتابَ عَلَيكُم فَاقرَءوا ما تَيَسَّرَ مِنَ القُرءانِ عَلِمَ أَن سَيَكونُ مِنكُم مَرضىٰ وَءاخَرونَ يَضرِبونَ فِى الأَرضِ يَبتَغونَ مِن فَضلِ اللَّهِ وَءاخَرونَ يُقٰتِلونَ فى سَبيلِ اللَّهِ فَاقرَءوا ما تَيَسَّرَ مِنهُ وَأَقيمُوا الصَّلوٰةَ وَءاتُوا الزَّكوٰةَ وَأَقرِضُوا اللَّهَ قَرضًا حَسَنًا وَما تُقَدِّموا لِأَنفُسِكُم مِن خَيرٍ تَجِدوهُ عِندَ اللَّهِ هُوَ خَيرًا وَأَعظَمَ أَجرًا وَاستَغفِرُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ

What is this "The Salat" here? Can you see this "The Salat" is extra as well as giving the Zakat, doing good...etc. righteousness , reading Qoran.
Acknowledge is a general term and can be done in righteousness or any other mentioned here or not mentioned. The salat is something defined ,specific and can be identified by studying other verses with "The Salat" in them.
2- 1187
They said, "O Shu`aib, does your "Salawat" dictate upon you that we must abandon our parents' religion, or running our businesses in any manner we choose? Surely, you are known for being clement, wise."
قالوا يٰشُعَيبُ أَصَلوٰتُكَ تَأمُرُكَ أَن نَترُكَ ما يَعبُدُ ءاباؤُنا أَو أَن نَفعَلَ فى أَموٰلِنا ما نَشٰؤُا۟ إِنَّكَ لَأَنتَ الحَليمُ الرَّشيدُ

Again this "Salawat" is not "Aquimi Salat" or "The Salat" ,so the meaning is different.

3- Or this, which is completely different to both above
3343
He is the One who Yusalli on you, together with His angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. He is Most Merciful towards the believers.
هُوَ الَّذى يُصَلّى عَلَيكُم وَمَلٰئِكَتُهُ لِيُخرِجَكُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ وَكانَ بِالمُؤمِنينَ رَحيمًا

Here the context and meaning are given in the verse- Encourage/help you to come out of darkness into the light- message-.

However ,those who know GOD and seek His path will know for sure that GOD knows everything and are in acknowledgement 24/7

You do not get into any situation, nor do you recite/study any Qoran, nor do you do anything, without us being witnesses thereof as you do it. Not even an atom's weight is out of your Lord's control, be it in the heavens or the earth. Nor is there anything smaller than an atom, or larger, that is not recorded in a profound record.
وَما تَكونُ فى شَأنٍ وَما تَتلوا مِنهُ مِن قُرءانٍ وَلا تَعمَلونَ مِن عَمَلٍ إِلّا كُنّا عَلَيكُم شُهودًا إِذ تُفيضونَ فيهِ وَما يَعزُبُ عَن رَبِّكَ مِن مِثقالِ ذَرَّةٍ فِى الأَرضِ وَلا فِى السَّماءِ وَلا أَصغَرَ مِن ذٰلِكَ وَلا أَكبَرَ إِلّا فى كِتٰبٍ مُبينٍ

GOD bless you.
Peace.

jkhan