Other Wahi than the quran ?

loli

Peace /JM/ , loli n all,

First, and I'm not trying to 'downplay' or demean this valid question, but there is no "wahy" in these verses mentioned (as opposed to the headings you both chose).

Second, and I may reaching here, but the question she asks is - "Who informed you of this? What is "this"? What was the information?... was it -probihition and God has already given the law, regarding the cancellation of oaths. (587-89)?

The answer, I believe, is in the very verses you provided. Look again. )

On the other hand, here's some verses that I found about inspiration, to other than messengers, while discussing on another thread. Perhaps this might broaden the understanding?...

Inspiration

And your Lord inspired to the bees ?You shall take homes of the mountains and of the trees and of what they erect.?

And We inspired to Moses? mother ?Suckle him, and when you become fearful for him, then cast him off in the sea, and do not fear nor grieve. We will return him to you and We will make him of the messengers.?

Thus, He then made them into seven universes in two days, and He inspired to every universe its affair. And We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and for protection. Such is the design of the Noble, the Knowledgeable.

And it is not for any human being that God would speak to him, except through inspiration, or from behind a barrier, or by sending a messenger to inspire whom He wills by His leave. He is the Most High, Most Wise.

We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and Jinn devils, to inspire in each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

Peace zenje, all

From what i understand from the context,661-5. The prophet tells something to one of his wife(maybe a secret about another wife;664). Then she spread the "secret". She shouldnt do that, so Allah tells the prophet( by wahy?) about his wife spreading the "Secret". Then the prophet recognized part of it and denied part(does this means that the prophet tell his wife part of it and keep it to himself part of it?). His wife felt weird on how the prophet know that she is spreding the "secret", so she asked him.

I cant see how the law regarding the cancellation of oaths fits into the picture because the law have to be spread out. Not to keep as a secret between the prophet and his wife. So did the prophet receive anything else besides the Quran?

zenje

Salaam loli,

...so Allah tells the prophet( by wahy?) about his wife spreading the "Secret".
See, I'm not so sure about that, but then again, I may be wrong.

I cant see how the law regarding the cancellation of oaths fits into the picture because the law have to be spread out. Not to keep as a secret between the prophet and his wife.
Why not? Try and look 'outside' of what you know. What was "a matter in confidence" that she 'broke'... could that be a 'cancellation of an oath'? idea

So did the prophet receive anything else besides the Quran?
Was the prophet informed of anything, by God, other than quran, I think so. But I don't think - as law, or as words to reveal for mankind. Otherwise it would be in quran. This is my opinion.

Say ?Which is the greatest testimony?? Say ?God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Quran that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!?; Say ?I do not bear witness!?, Say ?He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!?

Peace.

loli

Salam zenje, all

Why not? Try and look 'outside' of what you know. What was "a matter in confidence" that she 'broke'... could that be a 'cancellation of an oath'? idea

Im not very sure, its hard to know the exact meaning of the verse if we don't know in what situation the verse is sent down. Maybe it is the 'cancellation of an oath' or something else. But how 'cancellation of an oath' could make two of the prophet's wife argue with each other?

Was the prophet informed of anything, by God, other than quran, I think so. But I don't think - as law, or as words to reveal for mankind. Otherwise it would be in quran. This is my opinion.

Hmm.. This will be a HUGE point for those who believes in hadith. Don't you think so?

Peace.

Fahad1

Peace everybody

In the article below, we learn that the only wahi the prophet got was the quran.
http//www.free-minds.org/books/naveed_03.htm

But

O you prophet, why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Merciful.
God has already given the law, regarding the cancellation of oaths. And God is your Lord, and He is the Knowledgeable, the Wise.
And when the prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to some of his wives, then one of them spread it, and God revealed it to him, he recognized part of it and denied part. So when he informed her, she said ?Who informed you of this?? He said ?I was informed by the Knowledgeable, the Expert.?

Where is the verse where God informs the prophet ?

Thanks for your help

Peace

peace JM.
the answer is that the prophet recieved revelation other than the koran . but that was personel revelation . there are a number of verses in the koran indicating this . i will post them here God willing.
peace .

Zlatan

Peace loli all!

loli he was informed by the very same verses you have quoted....

i think Quran was very decisive that Quran is the only revelation to him....yes there might be ambiguous places here and there that might be interpreted differently(but that interpretation isnt correct) but thats the case with all the topics...and ithats i believe a trap for the perverted hearts.... see 37

best wishes

loli

Peace loli all!

loli he was informed by the very same verses you have quoted....

Peace Zlatan,

Wow.. i never thought of it that way.. Thanx Zlatan.. )

loli

Peace,

From my understanding, other prophets such as Aaron or Mother of Moses receive their revelation, but not in the form of a Book. So can Muhammad receive such revelation as well?

Fahad1

Peace,

From my understanding, other prophets such as Aaron or Mother if Moses receive their revelation, but not in the form of a Book. So can Muhammad receive such revelation as well?

peace loli.
yes u r right . , Muhammad also recieved revelation other than the koran.

tux

Peace Saladin

Peace,

From my understanding, other prophets such as Aaron or Mother if Moses receive their revelation, but not in the form of a Book. So can Muhammad receive such revelation as well?

peace loli.
yes u r right . , Muhammad also recieved revelation other than the koran.

Verses?

wildguest1956

Peace everybody,

Are there, according to you, different kinds of wahi ?

The Meaning of Wahy
The word awha, from which 'wahy' (revelation) is derived, occurs in a number of shades of meaning in the Qur'an, each of them indicating the main underlying idea of inspiration directing or guiding someone. In each example below, the italicised words in the translation are forms of the root word wahy in the original text of the Qur'an

Guidance in natural intuition
'so we sent this inspiration to the mother of Moses . . .' (287)
Guidance in natural instinct
'and thy Lord taught the bee to build its cells in hills, on trees and in (man's) habitations' (166
Guidance by signs
'So Zakaria came out to his people from his chamber he told them by signs to celebrate God's praises in the morning and in the evening' (1911)
Guidance from evil
'Likewise did we make for every messenger an enemy evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception ...' (6112)
Guidance from God
'Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message) ...' (812)

Means of Revelation
Wahy in the sense of 'revelation' is guidance from God for His creation, brought by the Prophets, who received the word from God through one of the means mentioned in the following Qur'anic verse
'It is not fitting for a man that God should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by sending of a messenger to reveal with God's permission what God wills for He is Most High, Most Wise' (4251)
Means of revelation are

Inspiration, e.g. in a dream (see 37102, where it is related that Ibrahim receives guidance in a vision, while asleep, to sacrifice his son).
Speech hidden away (see 278, where it is related that God spoke to Musa from the fire).
Words (speech) sent through a special messenger from God (see 297, where it is related that God sent the Angel Gabriel as the messenger to Muhammad to reveal His message).

http//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/Denffer_uaq/Ch1S3.htm

loli

peace loli.
yes u r right . , Muhammad also recieved revelation other than the koran.

Peace Saladin,

Maybe it helps to notice that even the private conversation between God and Muhammad is recorded in The Reading. Example for the case of the blind man and the prophet's wife giving away "secrets".

This verses are only meant for Muhammad, was it meant for his followers?
But it is still recorded in the Quran, So if the prophet receive anything else other than the Quran, dont you think that it will be recorded in the Quran? even personal wahy?

Peace

Fahad1

Peace Saladin,

Maybe it helps to notice that even the private conversation between God and Muhammad is recorded in The Reading. Example for the case of the blind man and the prophet's wife giving away "secrets".

This verses are only meant for Muhammad, was it meant for his followers?
But it is still recorded in the Quran, So if the prophet receive anything else other than the Quran, dont you think that it will be recorded in the Quran? even personal wahy?

Peace

peace loli.
the personal wahy doesnt necessarily have to be recorded in the koran ,although a number of them have been recorded . yes , the personel revelation was only for the prophet or sometimes for his contemporary people .

some examples

All?h has certainly helped you at Badr while you were weak. So, fear All?h so that you may be grateful. When you (O Prophet) were saying to the believers, ?Shall it not suffice you that your Lord shall aid you with three thousand angels being sent down? Why not? If you observe patience and fear All?h and they come to you in this their heat, your Lord shall aid you with five thousand angels having distinct marks?? And All?h did not make it but a good news for you so that your hearts might be satisfied. And there is no help except from All?h, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (3123-126)

this good news of sending down angels is not given in the koran . koran only tells that God gave the good news .

And when All?h promised you that one of the two groups shall be for you. (87)

the promise is not found in the koran .

When you were saying to the one whom All?h had blessed and whom you had blessed, (i.e. Zaid, before he divorced Zainab), ?Keep to you your wife and fear All?h,? and you were hiding in your heart what All?h was to disclose and you were fearing people, and All?h has more right to be feared by you. So, when Zaid finished with her, We made you marry her, so that there may remain no restriction on the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when they have finished with them. And the order of All?h had to be done. (3337)

3337 tells that God made Muhammad marry Zaid's former wife . but koran gives no such order to Muhammad . the order was given in some personal revelation .

Those remaining behind will say, when you set forth after spoils to acquire them, ?Let us follow you,?- desiring to change the words of All?h. Say, ?You shall not follow us; so All?h has said earlier.? (4815)

"Allah has said earlier"? where ? not in the koran . but through personal wahy .

peace .
fahad.

loli

arrow Thanx saladin. )

wildguest1956

Peace Saladin,

Maybe it helps to notice that even the private conversation between God and Muhammad is recorded in The Reading. Example for the case of the blind man and the prophet's wife giving away "secrets".

This verses are only meant for Muhammad, was it meant for his followers?
But it is still recorded in the Quran, So if the prophet receive anything else other than the Quran, dont you think that it will be recorded in the Quran? even personal wahy?

Peace

peace loli.
the personal wahy doesnt necessarily have to be recorded in the koran ,although a number of them have been recorded . yes , the personel revelation was only for the prophet or sometimes for his contemporary people .

some examples

All?h has certainly helped you at Badr while you were weak. So, fear All?h so that you may be grateful. When you (O Prophet) were saying to the believers, Shall it not suffice you that your Lord shall aid you with three thousand angels being sent down? Why not? If you observe patience and fear All?h and they come to you in this their heat, your Lord shall aid you with five thousand angels having distinct marks? And All?h did not make it but a good news for you so that your hearts might be satisfied. And there is no help except from All?h, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (3123-126)

this good news of sending down angels is not given in the koran . koran only tells that God gave the good news .

And when All?h promised you that one of the two groups shall be for you. (87)

the promise is not found in the koran .

When you were saying to the one whom All?h had blessed and whom you had blessed, (i.e. Zaid, before he divorced Zainab), Keep to you your wife and fear All?h, and you were hiding in your heart what All?h was to disclose and you were fearing people, and All?h has more right to be feared by you. So, when Zaid finished with her, We made you marry her, so that there may remain no restriction on the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when they have finished with them. And the order of All?h had to be done. (3337)

3337 tells that God made Muhammad marry Zaid's former wife . but koran gives no such order to Muhammad . the order was given in some personal revelation .

Those remaining behind will say, when you set forth after spoils to acquire them, Let us follow you,- desiring to change the words of All?h. Say, You shall not follow us; so All?h has said earlier. (4815)

"Allah has said earlier"? where ? not in the koran . but through personal wahy .

peace .
fahad.

Peace Saladin,

Do you think hadith qudsi can exist ?

Qudsi means holy, or pure. There are some reports from the Prophet Muhammad where he relates to the people what God has said (says) or did (does), but this information is not part of the Qur'an. Such a report is called hadith qudsi, e.g.

Abu Huraira reported that Allah's messenger said
'Allah, Mighty and Exalted is He, said If My servant likes to meet me, I like to meet him, and if he dislikes to meet Me, I dislike to meet him.'
http//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/Denffer_uaq/Ch1S2.htm

salikahDC

Do you think hadith qudsi can exist ?

Qudsi means holy, or pure. There are some reports from the Prophet Muhammad where he relates to the people what God has said (says) or did (does), but this information is not part of the Qur'an. Such a report is called hadith qudsi

Peace JM, all

Although you asked Saladin, I hope you don't mind me responding oops
First of all, I suppose it comes down to a person's definition and perception of "holy" and "pure". For my arguement's sake

Pure-Free of foreign elements.
Containing nothing inappropriate or extraneous

Holy-Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred

In regards to Hadith Qudsi Before we can attribute anything as being "holy" or "pure", we must first prove that it is TRUE. If you have no proof of its validity, then how can you say that it is "pure" ? Anything (idealogies, rituals, cultural norms) extraneous or contradicting Al Qur'an cannot be "holy" (see above definitions).

Personally, the only sayings and actions of The Prophet that I have proven to be 100% accurate, pure, and holy are the words and actions found in the Qur'an...even when Rasullah makes mistakes in his actions (i.e. Surah 80 and the blind man), the report of these actions and sayings are "pure" and "holy" based on the aforementioned definition of these adjectives.
Today, extra Quranic Hadith cannot be "holy" because it's entire existance is extraneous from Al Qur'an and validity is difficult to prove. However, could Hadith Qudsi have existed back in Rasulallah's time? Very interesting question...

wildguest1956

Do you think hadith qudsi can exist ?

Qudsi means holy, or pure. There are some reports from the Prophet Muhammad where he relates to the people what God has said (says) or did (does), but this information is not part of the Qur'an. Such a report is called hadith qudsi

Peace JM, all

Although you asked Saladin, I hope you don't mind me responding ops
First of all, I suppose it comes down to a person's definition and perception of "holy" and "pure". For my arguement's sake

Pure-Free of foreign elements.
Containing nothing inappropriate or extraneous

Holy-Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred

In regards to Hadith Qudsi Before we can attribute anything as being "holy" or "pure", we must first prove that it is TRUE. If you have no proof of its validity, then how can you say that it is "pure" ? Anything (idealogies, rituals, cultural norms) extraneous or contradicting Al Qur'an cannot be "holy" (see above definitions).

Personally, the only sayings and actions of The Prophet that I have proven to be 100% accurate, pure, and holy are the words and actions found in the Qur'an...even when Rasullah makes mistakes in his actions (i.e. Surah 80 and the blind man), the report of these actions and sayings are "pure" and "holy" based on the aforementioned definition of these adjectives.
Extra Quranic Hadith cannot be "holy" because it's entire existance is extraneous from Al Qur'an.

Peace salikahDC,

I'm agreed with you.

But why would God have revealed something outside the quran, without garanteing its preservation ?

Andya_Primanda

I think we can reverse the question

Why would anyone want to claim that something other than the Qur'an is actually God's word?

Fahad1

Peace Saladin,

Do you think hadith qudsi can exist ?

Qudsi means holy, or pure. There are some reports from the Prophet Muhammad where he relates to the people what God has said (says) or did (does), but this information is not part of the Qur'an. Such a report is called hadith qudsi, e.g.

Abu Huraira reported that Allah's messenger said
'Allah, Mighty and Exalted is He, said If My servant likes to meet me, I like to meet him, and if he dislikes to meet Me, I dislike to meet him.'
http//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/Denffer_uaq/Ch1S2.htm

salam JM.
i dont believe in the "hadith qudsi" contained in the hadith books . there were revelations besides the koran but the "hadith qudsi" are not necessarily true . we have no proof for that . nor are we supposed to uphold other teachings besides the koran .

But why would God have revealed something outside the quran, without garanteing its preservation ?

God did send revelations outside the koran as we have seen in the verses . but why do u think it is necessary to guarantee its preservation ?! that shouldnt be a question . God also revealed other books before the koran , but did not preserve them . only koran's preservation was guaranteed , because only koran is to be followed for all times , not other hadiths besides it .

salam.

loli

Peace Saladin

you wrote

All?h has certainly helped you at Badr while you were weak. So, fear All?h so that you may be grateful. When you (O Prophet) were saying to the believers, ?Shall it not suffice you that your Lord shall aid you with three thousand angels being sent down? Why not? If you observe patience and fear All?h and they come to you in this their heat, your Lord shall aid you with five thousand angels having distinct marks?? And All?h did not make it but a good news for you so that your hearts might be satisfied. And there is no help except from All?h, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (3123-126)

this good news of sending down angels is not given in the koran . koran only tells that God gave the good news .

By the wordings in this ayat, it can be said that this ayat was sent down after the Badr.
I think the Good news is the angels coming to help the Prophet itself in the war. As far i can see the "IT" in the ayat refers to the angels coming down helping the Prophet. what do you think?

peace.

jonny_k

By the wordings in this ayat, it can be said that this ayat was sent down after the Badr.
I think the Good news is the angels coming to help the Prophet itself in the war. As far i can see the "IT" in the ayat refers to the angels coming down helping the Prophet. what do you think?

peace.

Khi- The verse talks in past tense indicating tht the Prophet ALREADY delivered tht message be4 it came into Quran. Look at tht verse again
GOD has GRANTED you victory at Badr, despite your weakness. Therefore, you shall observe GOD, to show your appreciation.
When you told the believers, "Is it not enough that your Lord supports you with three thousand angels, sent down?"
So this shows tht this was uttered by the Prophet be4 this very verse was revealed 2 him. I agree tht the Prophet Muhammad received personal revelation/inspiratiion as 2 deliever some good news etc but i dont agree tht Muhammad delievered a command out of Quran. Even if he did
those wld ONLY be 4 his time n location n thts y GOD didnt preserve them but mentioned the important statements in Quran. RK also received personal isnpiration like the miraaj event where he saw Abraham in his dream. But tht is his personal experience n is NOT important 4 us now. GOD Bless!