Other Wahi than the quran ?
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Peace be upon you,
The error in this thread comes from not translating words, this always causes a problem. The reson certain words are not translated is because they lose thier "power" once it is done.
The word "quran" only means reading. Anything that is read is a reading. But the God tells us that to know if a reading(quran) is from HIM, we must look for contradictions, if there are any contradictions (that cannot be resolved by the proper perception and verification) then it is not from the God.
SO the question of is there any inspiration other than "quran", no there is not, but not because the physicalbook that is being called "QURAN" is the only truthful speech, but because ANY TRUTHFUL, VERIFYABLE SPEECH is described with the description "God's reading(quran)"
This reading says so itself that it is ONE OF the greatest, not THE GREATEST, and we also know that it confirms other readings that came before it.
Very interesting....but...how do you understand ?
How was the prophet informed ?Peace
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Peace to all
Did my explanation of convince someone ?
For interested people, here is GA Parwez's rendition of these verses.
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O Nabi! Given whatever Allah Almighty has made legal for you, why did you impose prohibitions on yourself just to please your wives? (You have been warned so that) You should not have shortage of protection and development (which would be a natural consequence of declaring things legal or illegal). This is important because your actions do not remain confined to your person. You may leave something because you do not like it; but your followers might think that this thing is intrinsically bad and therefore forbid it for themselves. Therefore you have to be extra cautious.
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(If you have taken an oath in this regard, then do not worry.) The Divine Laws has already made provision to break such oaths and an atonement has be to made (2225; 589). Allah surely is your Protector. (Accordingly He has made provisions in the Law to expiate for mistakes or human emotions.) He is well aware (of such weaknesses) and therefore has based His Law on wisdom.
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(This other episode is also worth mentioning.) The Nabi said something in confidence to one of his wives. (Such conversations between husbands and wives do take place.) The wife divulged it to another woman (although she should not have done so) But Allah made it known to the Nabi (through that other woman). Then he narrated a portion of that to his wife and withheld a part from her. (He made it known to her that he had found out about it but did not disclose the source.) Whereupon she asked him, "Who has told you this?" He said "This has been told to me by the one (that woman) to whom you disclosed the secrecy; and this is how she came to know about it.
. Everything that human beings ordinarily learn or which can be learned by normal means, many a time can be attributed to Allah. For example in 54, the method of training dogs has been attributed to Allah, even though it is common knowledge that any man who has learnt how, can teach the dogs. (Similarly see 2282; 964-5; 554.)
. If Al-Aleem, Al-Khabeer refer to Allah, then it would mean what has been described under the above note.- At this Allah ordered It would be good if both you women (who share this secret) seek Allahs forgiveness, because you have behaved abnormally. However, if both of you team up and oppose the Nabi, then remember (you cannot do any harm to him, as he is right and because) Allah the Almighty, His Law which has been revealed to him through Gabriel, the Jamaat of righteous Momineen and the Malaika, are with him. They all shall support him.
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Peace be upon you JM,
Very interesting....but...how do you understand ?
How was the prophet informed ?As all prophets are INformed, from WithIN, its called INtuition.
How does 663 contradict that in any way?
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Peace be upon you JM,
Very interesting....but...how do you understand ?
How was the prophet informed ?As all prophets are INformed, from WithIN, its called INtuition.
How does 663 contradict that in any way?
You wrote also
SO the question of is there any inspiration other than "quran", no there is not, but not because the physicalbook that is being called "QURAN" is the only truthful speech, but because ANY TRUTHFUL, VERIFYABLE SPEECH is described with the description "God's reading(quran)"
So,
- Can everybody have intuition, or is it a specificity of the prophets ?
- Is there any difference between intuition and inspiration ?
Thanks in advance for your clarifications
Peace
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peace .
So her Lord accepted her a good acceptance, and made her grow into a good growth, and charged Zachariah with her. Every time Zachariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, he found provisions with her. He said O Mary, from where did you get this? She said It is from God, God provides for whom He wishes without reckoning.
Does this verse means that God had turned himself to a human to bring food to Mary ?
God does not have to turm himself into a human to give us food .
And, in , the prophet is implementing the same principle. He guessed his wife has spread the matter of confidence (or he had been informed of this by a companion), and attributes this blessing to God.
guesses and hearsay cannot be attributed to God .
peace .
Peace Saladin
They ask you as to what is allowed to them. Say The good things are allowed to you, and what you have taught the beasts and birds of prey, training them to huntyou teach them of what Allah has taught you-- so eat of that which they catch for you and mention the name of Allah over it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is swift in reckoning.
According to you, does this verse imply that God has taught the believers by revelation how to train their hunting animals to catch food ?
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Peace be upon you JM,
So,
- Can everybody have intuition, or is it a specificity of the prophets ?
Yes, everyone has the POTENTIAL to have intuition, but not everyone does the WORK required to get to that level, and if they do, they don't do it consistently to stay at that level. One who is at that level, AT THAT TIME, is described as a "prophet". Please notice I said described as a "prophet" (lower case p), not given the TITLE "PROPHET". You see, we have taken this description and IDOLIZED IT. It is not a title, it is a simple description of one who reaches the level where they can "talk to the God", that is, recieve intuition. EVERYONE has that potential, the God is fair and just, so it is up to each individual, and they will only reap what they sow.
In the same manner, anyone who passes on information that was intuited is described, not TITLED, messenger(one who is sent).
- Is there any difference between intuition and inspiration ?
It depends on how yo uare defining those words, Inspiration shows the connection of IN + SPIRIT, so I would say that is similar, but again, lets nail down the definitions before we say exactly the same.
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Peace Idolfree,
Thank you for your explanations.
Nevertheless, I have further questions.You wrote
SO the question of is there any inspiration other than "quran", no there is not, but not because the physicalbook that is being called "QURAN" is the only truthful speech, but because ANY TRUTHFUL, VERIFYABLE SPEECH is described with the description "God's reading(quran)"
Assume I say "It rains".
I can guarantee you that, where I am, it really rains ; so it is a TRUTHFUL AND VERIFYABLE SPEECH.
Can I say it is inspiration, that I have talked to God, and that I am a prophet (that I can be described as a prophet) ?And you, can you be described as a prophet ?
Peace
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peace .
So her Lord accepted her a good acceptance, and made her grow into a good growth, and charged Zachariah with her. Every time Zachariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, he found provisions with her. He said ?O Mary, from where did you get this?? She said ?It is from God, God provides for whom He wishes without reckoning.?
Does this verse means that God had turned himself to a human to bring food to Mary ?
God does not have to turm himself into a human to give us food .
And, in , the prophet is implementing the same principle. He guessed his wife has spread the matter of confidence (or he had been informed of this by a companion), and attributes this blessing to God.
guesses and hearsay cannot be attributed to God .
peace .
Peace Saladin
They ask you as to what is allowed to them. Say The good things are allowed to you, and what you have taught the beasts and birds of prey, training them to hunt?you teach them of what Allah has taught you-- so eat of that which they catch for you and mention the name of Allah over it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is swift in reckoning.
According to you, does this verse imply that God has taught the believers by revelation how to train their hunting animals to catch food ?
salam.
not necessarily . 663 is about the nabi muhammad . it is no unusual thing for a nabi to recieve revealation from God . but in 54 the "you" in "what Allah has taught YOU" is plural (correct me if i m wrong , please),ie not only for the nabi . God has taught us many things but not through wahi .
how many people besides a nabi recieve revealtion from God ? not many right ?i can remember only Marium's name right now , who recieved good news of a child from God .by the way , do see any verse in the koran claiming that koran was the only wahi to muhammad . tell me please .
salam. -
salam.
not necessarily . 663 is about the nabi muhammad . it is no unusual thing for a nabi to recieve revealation from God . but in 54 the "you" in "what Allah has taught YOU" is plural (correct me if i m wrong , please),ie not only for the nabi . God has taught us many things but not through wahi .
how many people besides a nabi recieve revealtion from God ? not many right ?i can remember only Marium's name right now , who recieved good news of a child from God .Peace Saladin,
According to you, how does God do to teach someone something without revelation ?
And, why would God have (in ) communicated to Muhammad via revelation, whereas he could have communicated without revelation ?
How do you know God used revelation, in ?by the way , do see any verse in the koran claiming that koran was the only wahi to muhammad . tell me please .
salam.Maybe you could reread this article
http//www.free-minds.org/books/naveed_03.htmPeace
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salam.
salam.
not necessarily . 663 is about the nabi muhammad . it is no unusual thing for a nabi to recieve revealation from God . but in 54 the "you" in "what Allah has taught YOU" is plural (correct me if i m wrong , please),ie not only for the nabi . God has taught us many things but not through wahi .
how many people besides a nabi recieve revealtion from God ? not many right ?i can remember only Marium's name right now , who recieved good news of a child from God .Peace Saladin,
According to you, how does God do to teach someone something without revelation ?
And, why would God have (in ) communicated to Muhammad via revelation, whereas he could have communicated without revelation ?What a question!!! Like ?Why did God send the Koran via revelation when He could have done so without revelation??!!!
A nabi receives revelation . it is no extraordinary thing for a nabi . 663 is straightforward . why are u trying to rationalize it ? u r trying to prove something(that koran was the only revelation) not supported by even a single verse of the Koran .How do you know God used revelation, in ?
because that is the only explanation . u could not provide any good explaination . the best explanation u could give was that Muhammad attributed hearsay to God .
663 When the Prophet confined a secret to one of his
wives, she disclosed this secret to another and
Allah informed him about it, the Prophet made
known to the said wife a part of it and avoided
mentioning the rest. So when he told her about
this disclosure, she asked "Who told you this?"
He replied "I was informed by Him Who is
All-Knowing, All-Aware."What did the wife of nabi ask him ? that who exactly informed him . if it was someone other than God who informed him , for example his friend or someone else , the nabi would have told her wife that . because that is exactly what the wife was asking . if u ask me who emailed me last night and I tell u ?God emailed me? !!! that?s nuts . I would say that only if it was really God who emailed me .
by the way , do see any verse in the koran claiming that koran was the only wahi to muhammad . tell me please .
salam.Maybe you could reread this article
http//www.free-minds.org/books/naveed_03.htmnot a single verse on that page supports your idea that Koran was the only revelation .
salam. -
Salaamun alaikum all,
I have an interesting theory what if Allah had given Muhammad the power of telepathy at that instance and he read his wife's mind and that is how he found out about it. Then as the power of reading mind was given by Allah, he can say that Allah informed him. Any comments?
Peace,
Tanveer
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Peace Saladin
They ask you as to what is allowed to them. Say The good things are allowed to you, and what you have taught the beasts and birds of prey, training them to huntyou teach them of what Allah has taught you-- so eat of that which they catch for you and mention the name of Allah over it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is swift in reckoning.
According to you, does this verse imply that God has taught the believers by revelation how to train their hunting animals to catch food ?
salam.
not necessarily . 663 is about the nabi muhammad . it is no unusual thing for a nabi to recieve revealation from God . but in 54 the "you" in "what Allah has taught YOU" is plural (correct me if i m wrong , please),ie not only for the nabi . God has taught us many things but not through wahi .
how many people besides a nabi recieve revealtion from God ? not many right ?i can remember only Marium's name right now , who recieved good news of a child from God .by the way , do see any verse in the koran claiming that koran was the only wahi to muhammad . tell me please .
salam.Peace Saladin,
You wrote "God has taught us many things but not through wahi".
Could you explain how God concretely did to teach the believers how to train dogs ?
Did God turn into an human being and give them lessons ?
I would like you to explain clearly the process.Thanks in advance,
Peace
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Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear brothers and sisters in Islam,Please allow me to add my understanding regarding the same.
I think there is wahi other than AlQuraan. But one thing is clear that it is not necessary for us to know about that wahi which is other than AlQuraan.
Because, as it is mentioned in AlQuraan - 2185
"Shahru Ramadhanal-laziiy unzila feehi-AlQuraan hudanl-linnasi......" 2185
"Month of Ramadhan in which the Quraan has been revealed, a guidance for the mankind......" 2185
The noted point in this verse is AlQuraan is sent for the purpose of guidance and what so ever is there other than AlQuraan in a form of wahi is not a guidance for us. That is not important for us to know. We will not have to answer regarding that.... So, why we need to know about such wahi?
As Allah said in 2187
"Uhilla lakum lailatas-thiyaami......." 2187
There are two points to note down in this verse...
One is It has been made lawful for you to go to your women in the nights of fasting.
Second is Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He turned to you and forgave you.
From these point it is clear enough to understand that going to our women in the nights of fasting were unlawful. But where was it said? Is it in AlQuraan? As per my knowledge, I dont find it. (if anyone knows about it, please get the reference).
From the above quoted verses itself we understand that it was unlawful before and later with the mercy of Allah, He made it lawful for us. So, we don't need to know how it was mentioned before when it was unlawful. Because that is not important for us to know or else Allah would have mentioned it if was necessary for us.
So, there is possibility of other wahi apart from AlQuraan.
We should not forget that Allah has chosen three (3) ways to communicate with any person. Mentioned in 4251
I think "Ra'aa / Taraa" or "Ilhaam" all are the parts of these three kinds.
This is my personal understanding, it may need varification before believing.
May Allah open our hearts to undertand the Truth and guide us all towards the way that He likes.
Regards,
Mohammed Mahtab Khan
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Peace Saladin,
You wrote "God has taught us many things but not through wahi".
Could you explain how God concretely did to teach the believers how to train dogs ?
Did God turn into an human being and give them lessons ?
I would like you to explain clearly the process.Thanks in advance,
Peace
salam JM.
God can teach us in any way at all . but He does not "turn into a human being" to do that . (who said that God turns ino a human being?) . he can teach us with or without wahi . for example the verses that tell us that Solomon was taught how to make armor and he was also taught the language of birds . that would have been taught with or without wahi . same goes for training the dogs . maybe it was taught through wahi , maybe not . it is no extraordinary thing for a nabi to recieve revelation . -
Peace Saladin,
You wrote "God has taught us many things but not through wahi".
Could you explain how God concretely did to teach the believers how to train dogs ?
Did God turn into an human being and give them lessons ?
I would like you to explain clearly the process.Thanks in advance,
Peace
salam JM.
God can teach us in any way at all . but He does not "turn into a human being" to do that . (who said that God turns ino a human being?) . he can teach us with or without wahi . for example the verses that tell us that Solomon was taught how to make armor and he was also taught the language of birds . that would have been taught with or without wahi . same goes for training the dogs . maybe it was taught through wahi , maybe not . it is no extraordinary thing for a nabi to recieve revelation .Thanks for you endeavors, however it is still not clear enough for me.
I would like to know exactly the way God taught the believers how to train their dogs.What do you think of the following verse
And it is not for any human being that God would speak to him, except through inspiration, or from behind a barrier, or by sending a messenger to inspire whom He wills by His leave. He is the Most High, Most Wise.
salam JM.
why do u think that there was no revelations besides the koran . i have not read any such thing in the koran . tell me please .
salam.Indeed, I think there has not been any revelation to prophet Muhammad outside the quran. But I would like to understand your argumentation to become sure of this.
And I have not read in the quran anything about revelation outside it.
There are just some verse that may lead us to this deduction.
But maybe we do not understand them well...Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear brothers and sisters in Islam,Please allow me to add my understanding regarding the same.
I think there is wahi other than AlQuraan. But one thing is clear that it is not necessary for us to know about that wahi which is other than AlQuraan.
Because, as it is mentioned in AlQuraan - 2185
"Shahru Ramadhanal-laziiy unzila feehi-AlQuraan hudanl-linnasi......" 2185
"Month of Ramadhan in which the Quraan has been revealed, a guidance for the mankind......" 2185
The noted point in this verse is AlQuraan is sent for the purpose of guidance and what so ever is there other than AlQuraan in a form of wahi is not a guidance for us. That is not important for us to know. We will not have to answer regarding that.... So, why we need to know about such wahi?
As Allah said in 2187
"Uhilla lakum lailatas-thiyaami......." 2187
There are two points to note down in this verse...
One is It has been made lawful for you to go to your women in the nights of fasting.
Second is Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He turned to you and forgave you.
From these point it is clear enough to understand that going to our women in the nights of fasting were unlawful. But where was it said? Is it in AlQuraan? As per my knowledge, I dont find it. (if anyone knows about it, please get the reference).
From the above quoted verses itself we understand that it was unlawful before and later with the mercy of Allah, He made it lawful for us. So, we don't need to know how it was mentioned before when it was unlawful. Because that is not important for us to know or else Allah would have mentioned it if was necessary for us.
So, there is possibility of other wahi apart from AlQuraan.
We should not forget that Allah has chosen three (3) ways to communicate with any person. Mentioned in 4251
I think "Ra'aa / Taraa" or "Ilhaam" all are the parts of these three kinds.
This is my personal understanding, it may need varification before believing.
May Allah open our hearts to undertand the Truth and guide us all towards the way that He likes.
Regards,
Mohammed Mahtab Khan
Why do you think sexual relations in the nights of fasting had been made unlawful by a revelation from God ?
There are other possibilities. It could have been made unlawful by the prophet. Or maybe some companions hold the opinion that it was unlawful, so people believed it was.So, to sum up the different opinions
- Wahi other than Quran, but no guidance (mmkhan and saladin)
- Wahi and guidance other than Quran (sunnis)
- Every truthful and verifiable speech are wahi (idolfree)
- No wahi other than Quran (me)
Thanks to all, and Peace
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Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam,Why do you think sexual relations in the nights of fasting had been made unlawful by a revelation from God ?
There are other possibilities.What else do you think brother? The verse explain itself.
It could have been made unlawful by the prophet.
Was Prophet given the authority to make anything lawful or unlawful? I don't think so.
Or maybe some companions hold the opinion that it was unlawful, so people believed it was.
When it is said clearly in 2185 that "Uhilla lakum....." Who is making it lawful in here... Indeed Allah.... As per your understandings, if Prophet made it unlawful or come companions hold the opinion about that, Allah would have send the warnings like in 661.
Because Allah is the only One who can make anything lawful or unlawful.
So, to sum up the different opinions
- Wahi other than Quran, but no guidance (mmkhan and saladin)
- Wahi and guidance other than Quran (sunnis)
- Every truthful and verifiable speech are wahi (idolfree)
- No wahi other than Quran (me)
Thanks to all, and Peace
hmmm....
May Allah guide us all towards the Correct Path.
Regards,
Mohammed Mahtab Khan
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Peace,
What do we, as Quran only follower, to answer to the people who claim that verses , , , , ...etc...prove that there have been Revelation Outside the Quran (ROQ), and that the "sunna" can be (at least partially) inspired by God.
Here is what they say
And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to know who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
=> The first qibla has been given by ROQ.
It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are Gods boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.
=> To approach the women during the night of fasting had been made unlawful by ROQ before the revelation of this verse
And when the prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to some of his wives, then one of them spread it, and God revealed it to him, he recognized part of it and denied part. So when he informed her, she said Who informed you of this? He said I was informed by the Knowledgeable, the Expert.
=> Muhammad has been informed by ROQ
And you said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you Keep your wife and reverence God, and you hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And you feared the people, while it was God you were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.
=> God has commanded the prophet to marry her by ROQ
Those who lagged behind will say, when you venture out to collect the spoils Let us follow you! They want to change Gods words. Say You will not follow us; this is what God has decreed beforehand. They will then Say No, you are envious of us. Alas, they rarely understood anything.
=> God has decreed earlier by ROQ that they would not follow them
Other examples here http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40716#40716
Thanks !