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  4. Forensic Analysis of Qur'an

Forensic Analysis of Qur'an

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • Emre_1974trE Offline
    Emre_1974trE Offline
    Emre_1974tr
    wrote on last edited by
    #4

    بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْـمَٟنِ ٱلرَّحِيـمِ

    "Linguistic Components
    بِسْمِ (Bismi) This prepositional phrase, "In the name of," sets a tone of reverence and purpose, indicating that the following actions are undertaken with divine endorsement and blessing.

    ٱللَّهِ (Allah) The proper noun for God in Islam, denoting the supreme, singular deity. It is unique in its usage, carrying connotations of ultimate authority and sanctity.

    ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ (Ar-Rahman) Translated as "The Most Gracious," it emphasizes a boundless, encompassing mercy. This attribute suggests a universal compassion that permeates all of creation.

    ٱلرَّحِيمِ (Ar-Rahim) Meaning "The Most Merciful," it focuses on a more intimate, personal mercy. This attribute reflects God’s specific, continuous care for His creation.

    Theological Implications
    Invocation of Divine Presence Starting any act with this phrase invites the divine presence, making the act sacred and blessed. It establishes a spiritual context, transforming mundane activities into acts of worship.

    Mercy as Central to Divinity By invoking two attributes related to mercy, the phrase emphasizes that God's nature is fundamentally compassionate. This sets a framework for believers to emulate these qualities in their own lives.

    Philosophical Reflections
    Human Dependency on Divine Support This phrase acknowledges the human need for divine assistance and guidance. It reflects an inherent humility, recognizing human limitations and the necessity of divine intervention.

    Moral and Ethical Guidance Beginning actions with this phrase acts as a moral compass, reminding individuals to align their actions with the principles of mercy and compassion.

    Practical Applications
    Daily Invocation Muslims commonly use this phrase at the beginning of daily activities, such as eating, traveling, and important tasks. It serves as a constant reminder of God's presence and blessings.

    Mindfulness It promotes mindfulness and intentionality, ensuring that actions are carried out with consciousness of their spiritual and ethical dimensions.

    Conclusion
    "بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ" is more than a ritualistic phrase; it encapsulates core Islamic beliefs about God's nature and human interaction with the divine. Its regular recitation fosters a life led with purpose, compassion, and divine awareness, transforming everyday acts into spiritual practices.

    Spiritual Significance
    Foundation of Islamic Practice This phrase serves as the cornerstone of Muslim daily life and worship.

    Holistic Approach to Life By integrating this phrase into daily routines, Muslims maintain a holistic approach to life where spiritual awareness permeates all actions, fostering a balanced and mindful lifestyle.

    Psychological Perspective
    Positive Reinforcement Reciting this phrase can have a calming effect, instilling a sense of peace and security. It reinforces the believer's trust in a compassionate higher power, reducing anxiety and promoting mental well-being.

    Focus and Clarity Beginning tasks with this invocation helps to center one’s thoughts and intentions, leading to greater focus and clarity. It serves as a mental reset, aligning the individual’s actions with their spiritual goals.

    Social and Ethical Dimensions
    Community Bonding Shared recitation of this phrase in communal settings, such as prayers or gatherings, strengthens social bonds and collective identity. It unifies participants under a common spiritual banner.

    Ethical Conduct The emphasis on mercy and compassion within the phrase encourages ethical behavior. It reminds individuals to act with kindness and consideration, reflecting divine attributes in their interactions.

    Modern Implications
    Integration with Contemporary Life In a fast-paced modern world, this phrase offers a moment of pause and reflection, encouraging mindfulness. It provides a counterbalance to the stress and distractions of contemporary life.

    Cross-Cultural Resonance While rooted in Islamic tradition, the universal values of mercy and compassion expressed in this phrase can resonate with people of different cultures and faiths, promoting interfaith understanding and respect.

    Conclusion
    "Bismillahirrahmanirrahim" is a multifaceted phrase that embodies the essence of Islamic spirituality. It acts as a bridge between the divine and the mundane, infusing daily life with purpose and ethical guidance. Its regular recitation fosters a sense of peace, mindfulness, and social cohesion, making it a powerful tool for personal and communal growth."

    GPT - 4o

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #5

      Very useful input by dear Emre.

      Surface structure analysed

      بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْـمَٟنِ ٱلرَّحِيـمِ

      "Linguistic Components
      بِسْمِ (Bismi) This prepositional phrase, "In the name of," sets a tone of reverence and purpose, indicating that the following actions are undertaken with divine endorsement and blessing.

      ٱللَّهِ (Allah) The proper noun for God in Islam, denoting the supreme, singular deity. It is unique in its usage, carrying connotations of ultimate authority and sanctity.

      ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ (Ar-Rahman) Translated as "The Most Gracious," it emphasizes a boundless, encompassing mercy. This attribute suggests a universal compassion that permeates all of creation.

      ٱلرَّحِيمِ (Ar-Rahim) Meaning "The Most Merciful," it focuses on a more intimate, personal mercy. This attribute reflects God's specific, continuous care for His creation.

      Chapter 1; Ayahs= 7 (Prime), Words 31 (Prime). Letters and vowel markers= 263 (Prime)
      https//haqeeqat.pk/sohail/g1

      Ayah 1
      Statistical Information

      1. Preposition 1 بـِ Inseparable preposition

      2. All words are Nouns 4 (i) One common noun (ii)Two Proper Nouns; (iii) One Hyperbolic Participle/Intensive Adjective

      3. Prepositional Phrase 1

      4. Possessive Phrase 1

      5. Adjectival Phrase 1

      6. Grammatical Units 2

      Features
      Elliptical sentence
      Simple; Declarative of universal import beyond time and space.

      The first orthographic word of Qur’ān is بِسْمِ; it occurs three times. With same pronouncing sound, four times its orthography is بِٱسْمِ.

      The prefix ortho means “proper” or “correct,” while graph means “writing.” Writing (writing-system) is the method of representing the sounds of a language by written or printed symbols. It is the first ever Sound-recorder. Thus "reading" firstly means to convert written word into sound. Meanings are in the sound.

      I have termed it as first "orthographic word" of Qur’ān; otherwise these are two words prefix بـِ is a Particle word; and noun سْمِ; it comprises of consonant ب of Alphabet and under it is a small stroke which is a vowel sign called كسرةٌ carrying sound like "i" in English words "Sip-Bit". And this vowel on the last consonant of a noun reflects its state in genitive which determines its grammatical function in the sentence. In the category of particles, it is called Preposition, and in Arabic حرف الجر. It is Inseparable preposition meaning it is always a prefix. Its suffix is called its object noun. It exercises influence and affects the attached noun by changing its default nominative state to genitive state, which is then called genitive noun اِسم مَجرُور.

      بِسْمِ1 ٱللَّهِ

      https//haqeeqat.pk/sohail/1

      The words that have prefix بـِ is noun and both constitute a Prepositional Phrase, in Arabic (جار و مجرور). There are 2509 Prepositional Phrases with prefixed بـِ. Skim them in this link

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        Mazhar
        wrote on last edited by
        #6

        The words that have prefix بـِ is noun and both constitute a Prepositional Phrase, in Arabic (جار و مجرور). There are 2509 Prepositional Phrases with prefixed بـِ. Skim them in this link
        https//haqeeqat.pk/sohail/w1

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #7

          Grand Quran has 86972 words =86942 words parts of speech and 30 comprising of letters of alphabet. Recurrence and Root mentioned with other references also

          https//haqeeqat.pk/sohail/quranwords

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Mazhar
            wrote on last edited by
            #8

            I think Emre_1974tr AI will help removing this deficiency.

            Scrutiny of available translations reveals inadequacy of Ad-verbum and Ad-sensum theory of translation for Arabic.

            31.1. It has vividly been pronounced that the translation of Qur’ān is not possible by resorting to Ad Verbum (word by word) and Ad Sensum i.e. sentence by sentence Theories of translation. These theories are also not relevant for the reason Arabic is written like a continuous string of words resembling the single string of protein encoding genes of Messenger RNA in human genome. And also because the writer has free and wide choice of arranging the word order to add rhetorical meanings much over and above the collective meanings of individual words and elements of sentences. Moreover, Arabic is a pro-drop language.

            31.2. For proving this point, scrutiny of translations of very first Ayah would suffice. The Divine Discourse begins with these words
            بِسۡمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْـمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيـمِ ١

            31.3. Semantics in simple words is the study of the meaning of words and sentences. The first to study is the surface structure. The first Ayah comprises of a simple elliptical sentence (total eclipse-subject and predicate blocked) since it starts with a prepositional phrase and there is neither a verb nor a noun in nominative and accusative case to identify subject, predicate or object. Its four orthographic words comprise of a preposition and four nouns in genitive. Pedagogical lesson is to first learn about prepositions; and nouns and their mutual differences. It has all the three more common phrases in languages. The second pedagogical lesson is to learn identifying phrases in the Divine Discourse which can conveniently be distinguished visually. The moment we see dozens and dozens of translations, available on line(https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/1/1/default.htm), we notice they all are just word by word translation of individual words and phrases.

            31.4. I have not seen in all the translations the mention of the theory and methodology they selected for their effort. But their works reveal they just did it word by word adding a copula to give sense of a sentence. We may select few, firstly giving the translation by George Sale and Rodwell since both seem to have influence on later translations.
            George Sale (London, 1734) In the name of the most merciful God.
            John Medows Rodwell (London, 1861) In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
            Sahih International In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
            Pickthall In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
            Yusuf Ali In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
            Shakir In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
            Sher Ali In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
            Muhammad Ali (Lahori Qadiani) In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

            31.5. We should first determine the accuracy or otherwise of the translated text
            i. Whether this English "sentence" is a complete sentence or is lacking in linkages.
            ii. If it is not a complete sentence, what will be the meanings or connotation of "In the name of God"
            (a) In behalf of;
            (b) By the authority of;
            (c) With appeal to; in appeal or reference to; or
            (d) Just a swearing;
            (e) Invocation a calling upon Allah.
            31.6. The translated "sentence" is incomplete and suffers ambiguity. English grammar tells A sentence is a group of words which starts with a capital letter and ends with a full stop (.), question mark (?) or exclamation mark (!). A sentence contains or implies a predicate and a subject. There has to be a verb in it.

            31.7. Translated text can be termed as a sentence fragment. It fails to be a sentence in the sense that it cannot stand by itself. It does not contain even one independent clause. It may locate something in time and place with a prepositional phrase or a series of such phrases, but it is still lacking a proper subject-verb relationship within an independent clause. Hence Sale and Rodwell's translation is patently incorrect. Since others have just copied-plagiarized, they neither seem to have given a thought nor seem to have revisited the Arabic text to parse it and then translate. Unfortunate!
            31.8. Except George Sale all have have rendered the Adjectival Phrase ٱلرَّحْـمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيـم, as two non-restrictive appositives by setting off by commas. Non-restrictive appositives are not crucial to the meaning of the sentence. The Restrictive appositive, also called essential is one which narrows down the noun it modifies. A Restrictive appositive noun or phrase is necessary to the meaning of the sentence and it is not set off by commas.
            31.9. Grand Qur’ān is perhaps the only book about which majority of scholars, both believing and non-believing, quite often opt not to adhere to otherwise well accepted norms of behaviour - academic discipline of transferring a book of one language to another language. Just one example suffices to prove this unusual practice. One of the basic obligations of a Translator, who has self-assigned the task of translating a book into another language, is that he should firstly thoroughly study it to locate the Proper Nouns and identify them whether it is name of a person/sentient, or his title; place, or organization. We have in academics means and methods to distinguish a Proper Noun - Personal Name in a lengthy text. None seems to have cared to resolve whether Ar'Reh'maan is the Proper Noun - Name of Allah the Exalted, despite the fact that it finds mention for fifty-seven times (https//haqeeqat.pk/sohail/3) in the text of Grand Qur’ān; fully declinable in all cases, genitive 21; nominative 21 times, accusative 3; and with prefixed preposition 12 times.

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            • Emre_1974trE Offline
              Emre_1974trE Offline
              Emre_1974tr
              wrote on last edited by
              #9

              Yes, dear Mazhar, absolutely... With the full release of GPT o1 coming soon, the first step towards this solution can be taken. And right after that, GPT 5 will bring even deeper analysis and creative solutions from AI. We are at a historic moment in technology, and if there are no setbacks and development continues at this pace, we will soon have the assistants we have dreamed of, insha'Allah.

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Mazhar
                wrote on last edited by
                #10

                Yes, dear Mazhar, absolutely... With the full release of GPT o1 coming soon, the first step towards this solution can be taken. And right after that, GPT 5 will bring even deeper analysis and creative solutions from AI. We are at a historic moment in technology, and if there are no setbacks and development continues at this pace, we will soon have the assistants we have dreamed of, insha'Allah.

                I have added two paragraphs in chapter 3 of my book on translation which are crucial for accurate translation. It need to be fed also in AI software.

                3.14. Translator must always keep in mind "Arabic is a pro-drop language".
                Since Grand Qur’ān is for the humanity, its first audience was the people of Mecca and surrounding localities. Further, while reading Grand Qur’ān, it must be kept in mind that it was gradually-intermittently revealed to the Messenger who then communicated it to the people of those days. Therefore, while conveying an Ayah—unitary verbal passage wherein some element is elided, it was so because it was already in their knowledge and they were quite familiar about it. Its mentioning would have cost redundancy.
                Arabs dislike using larger quantity of words and like to convey voluminous information by employing minimum words. It also reflects that the Arabic language regards its listener and reader as a responsible, attentive and intelligent person who focuses his listening and perception faculties on that which is being stated. Thus the placing of words which could compromise the literary par excellence of the text along with offence to the first listeners, it is elided. The elisions are conspicuous by grammatical structures; and for the readers of later time-frame the semantics of the elided element are also mentioned at another place with repetition of key words in the elliptical sentences.
                It will be unfair on the part of the translator; it could even indicate that the translator has directly started translating without firstly having critically read the entire discourse, not to render the ellipses in the target language text because the reader is not aware about the nature and style of ellipses in Arabic. The reader is, however, conversant with the kinds of ellipses in English language which are found in dependent clauses. In Arabic, the ellipses also occur in the independent clauses. Lapse of translator in this regard can affect the semantic value of the original source text; and it can even distort the text, or render it vague.
                Therefore, the Translator should render the semantic content of elisions in the target language and give the reference of Sura and Ayah from where the semantic information is taken by brackets, like . The key to understand ellipses is to always keep in mind that the message is geared to be consonant with the audience's prior knowledge and assumptions.

                3.15. Anaphora resolution is a must.

                Arabic is an agglutinative language, the pronouns can occur as suffixes of nouns, verbs or prepositions. Therefore, Anaphora Resolution is vital to understanding the meaning of Grand Qur’ān. It means the problem of resolving what a pronoun refers to. In written or oral text anaphora can be thought of as “pointing back or referring to something or someone mentioned earlier”. The entity to which it refers is called its antecedent. The process of determining the antecedent of an anaphor—lexical entity is called anaphora resolution. It is contrasted with cataphora that refers forwards, not backwards.
                Pleonastic pronouns are considered non-anaphoric since they are not interpreted as linked to any expression (antecedent). For example, in English the pronoun "it" could be pleonastic, e.g., "It is important".
                Pronouns form a special class of anaphors because of their empty semantic structure; they do not have an independent meaning from their antecedent. Thus they will refer a singular entity. Grand Qur’ān is characterized by very frequent use of anaphors. The majority of anaphoric devices in it appear around pronominal anaphors. Hence, the ability to resolve pronoun antecedent is vital to understanding the Qur’ān. Grand Qur’ān relies on the reader's world knowledge and intuition when using pronouns without explicitly including any antecedent information. For example a good number of second person pronouns in the Qur’ān refer to exalted Messenger Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam with no prior mention of his name as we firstly notice in 24.
                Similarly, the second person pronoun "you" is understood in command verbs in English. The pronoun "you" can refer a single person, either male or female, two persons or a group of persons. But in Arabic the second person pronouns make distinction between singular male and female, dual, and plural masculine and feminine. Therefore, this peculiar aspect must be reflected in translation.

                Third person pronouns can refer both to persons, inanimate objects and fact. The inanimate/non-living objects have also gender distinction. Therefore, we will refer the feminine inanimate object by "she" and masculine by "he, that" and "it" can be used to refer some specific situation and point of view. The referent of other pronouns will be mentioned in parenthesis for the convenience of the reader.

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                • C Offline
                  C Offline
                  centi50
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #11

                  Salam to all,

                  What are your thoughts on this? It is related to translation. It is from Arab Christian and an evangelical Christian and Islam critic Dr. Jay Smith

                  https//youtu.be/1dQJPkau-xY

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #12

                    Salam to all,

                    What are your thoughts on this? It is related to translation. It is from Arab Christian and an evangelical Christian and Islam critic Dr. Jay Smith

                    https//youtu.be/1dQJPkau-xY

                    Firstly he talked about ٱلْأَسْبَاطِ; ٱلْأَسْبَاطَ.

                    This is used four times; 3 genitive and 1 accusative.

                    At all four places it begins with the name of the Ancestor إِبْرَٟهِيـمَ alahisalam. The last name at all four places is يَعْقُوبَ alahisalam. يَعْقُوبَ alahisalam is the grandson of إِبْرَٟهِيـمَ alahisalam.

                    Thus ٱلْأَسْبَاطِ a plural definite noun relates to يَعْقُوبَ alahisalam whose other name is Israel and the community Jews are called Children of Israel.

                    Its Root is س ب ط
                    Ibn Faris stated

                    (مقاييس اللغة)

                    السين والباء والطاء أصلٌ يدلُّ على امتداد شيء، ً

                    That it leads to the perception of extension, prolongation of a thing.

                    Lane's Lexicon A tribe of the Jews pl. أَسْبَاطٌ (M, Msb, K سِبْطٌ (M) and أَسْبَاطٌ (S, Msb) in relation to the Jews, (M, Msb,) or the Children of Israel, (S,) being like قَبِيلَةٌ (M) and قَبَائِلُ (S, Msb) in relation to the Arabs (S, M, Msb and the former are thus called to distinguish them from the children of Ishmael.
                    https//haqeeqat.pk/roots/(631).htm

                    Qur'an itself is best lexicon for its words. Fifth time use further explains the meanings that 12 sons of يَعْقُوبَ alahisalam had become twelve generations/tribes with different parental root.

                    وَ قَطَّعْنَٟهُـمُ ٱثْنَتَىْ عَشْـرَةَ أَسْبَاطًا أُمَمًۭاۚ

                    So the talk is superfluous.

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                    • G Offline
                      G Offline
                      good_logic
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #13

                      Peace centi50

                      So what is the problem ? Are not most traditional translations problematic?
                      Why worry about someone finding traditional Islam wrong if you do not follow their religion?

                      The irony is that those making the criticism have the same or worse approach towards Qoran. It is the kettle calling the pot black.

                      So you have a problem with Qoran too brother?

                      For example this verse is simple and straight forward
                      قولوا ءامَنّا بِاللَّهِ وَما أُنزِلَ إِلَينا وَما أُنزِلَ إِلىٰ إِبرٰهـۧمَ وَإِسمٰعيلَ وَإِسحٰقَ وَيَعقوبَ وَالأَسباطِ وَما أوتِىَ موسىٰ وَعيسىٰ وَما أوتِىَ النَّبِيّونَ مِن رَبِّهِم لا نُفَرِّقُ بَينَ أَحَدٍ مِنهُم وَنَحنُ لَهُ مُسلِمونَ

                      Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the "Patriarchs- Jacob s sons that are mentioned in the time of Moses as the twelve tribes of Israel-
                      This verse is saying there was no religions of Judaism or Christianity with Abraham to Jesus apart from "true Islam" i.e GOD s religion is only "Islam-submission to Him Alone- GOD has not sent different religions .

                      "Asbat" are the leaders/patriarchs of the twelve tribes of Israel.
                      Elesewhere in Qoran we read
                      "Wa Kattahnahum Ithnatay Ashrata "Asbatan" Un=mama." They were divided into the 12 tribes of Israel.

                      There are many sites making a mockery of criticising Traditional Islam and with it Qoran without study or context, just assumptions and ignorance of the book itself and using its false interpretations by the Muslim scholars and their followers.

                      Here is another example of pretending they understand Arabic better that anyone else and falling into their own trap
                      سُبحٰنَ الَّذى أَسرىٰ بِعَبدِهِ لَيلًا مِنَ المَسجِدِ الحَرامِ إِلَى المَسجِدِ الأَقصَا الَّذى بٰرَكنا حَولَهُ لِنُرِيَهُ مِن ءايٰتِنا إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّميعُ البَصيرُ

                      They say GOD is glorifying Himself and "Innahu" stands for "Abdahu" making the Messenger all hearing and all seeing. i.e an idol. They add the book says it explains itself yet has many issues/ contradictions.

                      The verse, to me is saying
                      Most glorified is the One who summoned His servant at night, from Al Masjid Al Haram to Al Masjid Al Aqsa which is blessed, to show him some of our signs. He- GOD- is the Hearer, the Seer.

                      Two subjects here, GOD and the servant. From the context "Innahu stands for one of them only-GOD-.
                      If we also look elsewhere in Qoran the servant is the one who received Qoran through Gabriel All at once- soul- then slowly released into his memory over a period of time for him to pass it on.

                      When Qoran is pondered as a whole and one uses it as a tool to compare and analyse its verses ,we find that GOD has used many verses to explain others or give similar words that need context for interpretation.

                      Let me give you this similar verse with two subjects issue (Surah Qasas, Moses helping the Hebrew man
                      and killing the Egyptian)

                      وَدَخَلَ المَدينَةَ عَلىٰ حينِ غَفلَةٍ مِن أَهلِها فَوَجَدَ فيها رَجُلَينِ يَقتَتِلانِ هٰذا مِن شيعَتِهِ وَهٰذا مِن عَدُوِّهِ فَاستَغٰثَهُ الَّذى مِن شيعَتِهِ عَلَى الَّذى مِن عَدُوِّهِ فَوَكَزَهُ موسىٰ فَقَضىٰ عَلَيهِ قالَ هٰذا مِن عَمَلِ الشَّيطٰنِ إِنَّهُ عَدُوٌّ مُضِلٌّ مُبينٌ

                      Here "Fawakasahu Mussa Fagada Alaih" from the context it can only stand for the Egyptian

                      Once he entered the city unexpectedly, without being recognized by the people. He found two men fighting; one was from his people, and the other was from his enemies. The one from his people called on him for help against his enemy. Moses punched him, killing him. He said, "This is the work of the devil; he is a real enemy, and a profound misleader."

                      Brother,it is futile to try and answer people with made up minds and agendas,
                      Study Qoran and see what you can make of it yourself. others can make /do with Qoran whatever they wish to do with it.
                      GOD bless you.
                      Peace.

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                      • C Offline
                        C Offline
                        centi50
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #14

                        Firstly he talked about ٱلْأَسْبَاطِ; ٱلْأَسْبَاطَ.

                        This is used four times; 3 genitive and 1 accusative.

                        At all four places it begins with the name of the Ancestor إِبْرَٟهِيـمَ alahisalam. The last name at all four places is يَعْقُوبَ alahisalam. يَعْقُوبَ alahisalam is the grandson of إِبْرَٟهِيـمَ alahisalam.

                        Thus ٱلْأَسْبَاطِ, a plural definite noun, relates to يَعْقُوبَ alahisalam, whose other name is Israel, and the community Jews are called Children of Israel.

                        Its Root is س ب ط
                        Ibn Faris stated

                        (مقاييس اللغة)

                        السين والباء والطاء أصلٌ يدلُّ على امتداد شيء، ً

                        It leads to the perception of the extension or prolongation of a thing.

                        Lane's Lexicon A tribe of the Jews pl. أَسْبَاطٌ (M, Msb, K سِبْطٌ (M) and أَسْبَاطٌ (S, Msb) in relation to the Jews, (M, Msb,) or the Children of Israel, (S,) being like قَبِيلَةٌ (M) and قَبَائِلُ (S, Msb) in relation to the Arabs (S, M, Msb and the former are thus called to distinguish them from the children of Ishmael.
                        https//haqeeqat.pk/roots/(631).htm

                        The Qur'an itself is the best lexicon for its words. Fifth-time use further explains the meaning that 12 sons of يَعْقُوبَ alahisalam had become twelve generations/tribes with different parental roots.

                        وَ قَطَّعْنَٟهُـمُ ٱثْنَتَىْ عَشْـرَةَ أَسْبَاطًا أُمَمًۭاۚ

                        So the talk is superfluous.

                        Peace centi50

                        So what is the problem? Are not most traditional translations problematic?
                        Why worry about someone finding traditional Islam wrong if you do not follow their religion?

                        The irony is that those making the criticism have the same or worse approach towards Qoran. It is the kettle calling the pot black.

                        So you have a problem with Qoran, too, brother?

                        For example this verse is simple and straight forward
                        قولوا ءامَنّا بِاللَّهِ وَما أُنزِلَ إِلَينا وَما أُنزِلَ إِلىٰ إِبرٰهـۧمَ وَإِسمٰعيلَ وَإِسحٰقَ وَيَعقوبَ وَالأَسباطِ وَما أوتِىَ موسىٰ وَعيسىٰ وَما أوتِىَ النَّبِيّونَ مِن رَبِّهِم لا نُفَرِّقُ بَينَ أَحَدٍ مِنهُم وَنَحنُ لَهُ مُسلِمونَ

                        Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the "Patriarchs- Jacob's sons that are mentioned in the time of Moses as the twelve tribes of Israel-
                        This verse is saying there were no religions of Judaism or Christianity with Abraham to Jesus apart from "true Islam", i.e. GOD's religion is only "Islam-submission to Him Alone- GOD has not sent different religions.

                        "Asbat" are the leaders/patriarchs of the twelve tribes of Israel.
                        Elsewhere in Qoran, we read
                        "Wa Kattahnahum Ithnatay Ashrata "Asbatan" Un=mama." They were divided into the 12 tribes of Israel.

                        Many sites are making a mockery of criticising Traditional Islam an,d with i,t Qoran without study or context, just assumptions and ignorance of the book itself and using its false interpretations by the Muslim scholars and their followers.

                        Here is another example of pretending they understand Arabic better that anyone else and falling into their own trap
                        سُبحٰنَ الَّذى أَسرىٰ بِعَبدِهِ لَيلًا مِنَ المَسجِدِ الحَرامِ إِلَى المَسجِدِ الأَقصَا الَّذى بٰرَكنا حَولَهُ لِنُرِيَهُ مِن ءايٰتِنا إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّميعُ البَصيرُ

                        They say GOD is glorifying Himself, and "Innahu" stands for "Abdahu", making the Messenger all-hearing and all-seeing. i.e. an idol. They add the book says it explains itself, yet it has many issues/ contradictions.

                        The verse, to me, is saying
                        Most glorified is the One who summoned His servant at night from Al Masjid Al Haram to Al Masjid Al Aqsa, which is blessed, to show him some of our signs. He- GOD- is the Hearer, the Seer.

                        Two subjects here, GOD and the servant. From the context, "Innahu stands for one of them only-.
                        If we also look elsewhere in Qoran the servant is the one who received Qoran through Gabriel All at once- soul- then slowly released into his memory over a period of time for him to pass it on.

                        When Qoran is pondered as a whole and one uses it as a tool to compare and analyse its verses, we find that GOD has used many verses to explain others or give similar words that need context for interpretation.

                        Let me give you this similar verse with two subject issuesSurah Qasas, Moses helping the Hebrew man
                        and killing the Egyptians)

                        وَدَخَلَ المَدينَةَ عَلىٰ حينِ غَفلَةٍ مِن أَهلِها فَوَجَدَ فيها رَجُلَينِ يَقتَتِلانِ هٰذا مِن شيعَتِهِ وَهٰذا مِن عَدُوِّهِ فَاستَغٰثَهُ الَّذى مِن شيعَتِهِ عَلَى الَّذى مِن عَدُوِّهِ فَوَكَزَهُ موسىٰ فَقَضىٰ عَلَيهِ قالَ هٰذا مِن عَمَلِ الشَّيطٰنِ إِنَّهُ عَدُوٌّ مُضِلٌّ مُبينٌ

                        Here "Fawakasahu Mussa Fagada Alaih" from the context it can only stand for the Egyptian

                        Once he entered the city unexpectedly, without being recognized by the people. He found two men fighting; one was from his people, and the other was from his enemies. The one from his people called on him for help against his enemy. Moses punched him, killing him. He said, "This is the work of the devil; he is a real enemy and a profound misleader."

                        Brother, it is futile to try and answer people with made-up minds and agendas,
                        Study Qoran and see what you can make of it yourself. Others can make /do with Qoran whatever they wish to do with it.
                        GOD bless you.
                        Peace.

                        mentions

                        Salam bro logic,

                        I don't have a problem with the Quran. I posted this only for learning and to have answers when someone can point out things like this to me.

                        I noticed the Arab Christians's tendency to work so hard to criticize the Quran.

                        God bless

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                          Bajram_Hoxhaj
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #15

                          Salam to all,

                          What are your thoughts on this? It is related to translation. It is from Arab Christian and an evangelical Christian and Islam critic Dr. Jay Smith

                          https//youtu.be/1dQJPkau-xY

                          Salaam,

                          2136 2140 384 4163 وَالْأَسْبَاطَ

                          7160 and sever (divide) we them twelve أَسْبَاطًا 'Asbāţāan/Nations of أُمَمًا 'Umamāan/Communities of

                          In classical Arabic dictionaries such as Lisan al-Arab (لسان العرب) by Ibn Manzur, Taj al-Arus (تاج العروس) by al-Zabidi, and Al-Qamus al-Muhit (القاموس المحيط) by Al-Fayruzabadi, the term "الأسباط" primarily refers to the twelve tribes of Israel (descendants of Jacob's sons), although it can also refer to descendants through both sons and daughters in a broader sense of lineage.

                          569 الْمَشْأَمَةِ the left (misfortune/negativity) non-literal meaning (see 37)

                          2192 indeed this community yours community single (unified)

                          1731 and not thou slay ye of 'Awlādakum/offspring yours fright أملق pauperism

                          The word أملق in Arabic (based on the above context) means 'to be poor' or impoverished. In some contexts, it can imply 'to stray' or 'to deviate' from a path (which is clearly not the case in this context).

                          It is true that many cultures prefer having sons over daughters, which pagans have deified.

                          1846 the wealth وَالْبَنُونَ and the sons being adornment the life the world
                          37149 so ask them does to lord your the daughters and for them الْبَنُونَ the sons being
                          5239 or for Him the daughters and for you الْبَنُونَ the sons being

                          6100 ... and attribute they of to Him بَنِينَ sons وَبَنَاتٍ and daughters in other than knowledge ...
                          6101 ... how being to Him وَلَدٌ (walad/offspring) does not imply 'son' (see above; otherwise, it allows for daughters).

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                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #16

                            The most amazing resonance with unique hidden realities is also embedded in the statistical analysis of First Ayah. Apparently, it has 19 letters but Pronounced (Seen + Heard) Letters are 23.
                            Breakdown (Seen + Heard)
                            بِسْمِ → 3 letters (ب، س، م)
                            ٱللَّهِ → 5 letters (ا، ل، ل، ه, and the heard alif after the first ل)
                            ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ → 8 letters (ا، ل، ر، ح، م, dagger alif, ن, and the pronounced elongation for the first رَ)
                            ٱلرَّحِيمِ → 7 letters (ا، ل، ر، ح, ي, م, and the pronounced elongation for the first رَ)
                            Total (Seen + Heard) = 23 letters.
                            This fascinating alignment with the number 23 reflects the divine precision in the Qur'an composition, further emphasizing its harmony with natural and spiritual patterns.
                            16. The serial publication and final composition of Divine Discourse expanded over a span of 23 years. Its Biological Significance is that Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes (46 in a cell), which carry all genetic information while one set comes from each parent's sex cell which has only 23. Thus 23 is central to genetics and human life. 23 is the ninth prime number and has properties that make it fundamental in number theory and it is part of a unique class of primes where 2p + 1 is also prime (here, 47). Further the sum of the first 23 primes equals 874, which is divisible by 23, an unusual property. Some Human Biorhythms theories suggest a 23-day cycle influences physical and emotional health.

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