Destiny and Free will
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So, brother Fusion. Everyone has a starting point for their test. The rich,poor .disabled,...etc
From that point on and unto the rest of our life we are accountable for our way of life. i.e from our age of responsibility. baring in mind some never reach this cap- Severely disabled, handicapped mentally,... We begin the test.
GOD says we return as individuals for the judgement. Once aware of our capacity,situation and environment,,there is nothing that we can do to change that, so we concentrate on our present and onwards.
Accepting our starting point and moving on from there is part of our submission to the Creator.
Freedom to lead our way of life from the starting point is the "Amana".
We can conform to systems or rebel. We can submit to the Creator of refuse to....
Freedom of choice is the way we decide and choose to lead our adulthood/responsibility in life.
We choose our friends ,our food, our relationships,our work,even change our place ,tradition,...etc.
That is what I would define freedom of choice for us.
As for our Creator ,there is nothing that applies to Him or restrict His ways. He always existed/will exist as complete,all knowledgeable and omnipresent. Everything created was meticulously planned and executed.
He has the video tape of all that happened, happens or will happen.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.@good-logic said in Destiny and Free will:
As for our Creator ,there is nothing that applies to Him or restrict His ways. He always existed/will exist as complete,all knowledgeable and omnipresent. Everything created was meticulously planned and executed.
He has the video tape of all that happened, happens or will happen.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.Thank you Good logic for taking the time and appreciate your explanation.
However, when you say everything was meticulously planned and already exists like a recorded video, that sounds like the entire script is fixed in detail. If that is the case, then what exactly is the nature of our choice? Are we truly deciding between alternatives, or are we simply unfolding what was already written in full detail?
I am not questioning divine knowledge. I am trying to understand how complete pre-planning and genuine responsibility coexist without collapsing into determinism.I also want to say that expressions such as “meticulously planned” and “already existing like a complete recording” are often used in faith language, and I understand their devotional intent. My question is whether this description is explicitly grounded in specific Quranic wording, or whether it is a theological way of expressing divine omniscience. I am asking this not to challenge belief, but to clarify the distinction between what the text states and how we articulate it in faith language.
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Peace Fusion.
What is "Laisa Kamithlihi Chaiun" ?
i.e Cannot be defined or understood completely or imagined.
From what we know GOD has no limits,time restraints or any incapability. He has full knowledge of time, space and creations and everything that exist.
So by that definition GOD knows the past ,present and future.. Is that not the "video tape" of all human life from beginning to end?
Qoran is talking to humans, from our perspective , so that we may grasp what GOD is saying to us and according to our limited knowledge.
Therefore ,as far as we are concerned, we have free will to serve our time here and we become our own judge and jury when we see more evidence at GOD s.
GOD s message is our saviour and guide as a mercy from Him to those who choose right.
As far as GOD is concerned everything is known already and settled.
"Atta Amru Allah Fala Tastajiluh" GOD s command/plan has come/been settled, do not be in a hurry to see it.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Just as God is physically distinct from His servants—having created them from nothing—He has likewise created their selves and wills as distinct from His own. That is, He created them ex nihilo; therefore, we possess free will. However, humans are naturally limited by the program God has designed. Consider modern Chess or Go programs. New-generation chess engines are merely provided with the rules of the game, and they learn everything else independently. For instance, a program plays millions of matches against itself to develop its own unique playing style, formations, systems, tactics, and strategies. They are completely free within the realm of chess; even their developers cannot fully comprehend how they play. Yet, these programs have a limit: they can only play chess. They cannot play backgammon. Humans possess similar boundaries; we are completely free within the domain we were created for, but we are never limitless like God. We are entirely separate from God in both being and will—created from nothing—yet our freedom operates within the parameters of our programming.
By the way, regarding the knowledge of the future: for Allah, there is no distinction between the past and the future. He is timeless, meaning He exists outside of time. Therefore, nothing happens 'later' or sequentially for Him. Events have already occurred and, simultaneously, have not occurred. This is a state that is beyond our imagination. Allah does not travel through time or space. He does not learn anything after the fact; He simply knows
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Ramadan Kareem to all.
@good-logic I understand the distinction you are making. Maybe the difficulty comes from the fact that we are trying to describe something that does not really fit into our human categories of time and sequence. If God is beyond time then “settled” from His side does not automatically mean “compelled” from ours. Perhaps the tension only appears because we are applying time based logic to a reality that is not time bound. From our lived experience, responsibility is real, even if the deeper structure behind it is beyond our full comprehension.As for “Laysa kamithlihi shay’,” I agree it clearly affirms His uniqueness. But in the full context of 42:11, the verse is speaking about His creative power and authority. I do not see it as shutting down reflection on how divine knowledge and human responsibility work together. Saying nothing is like Him establishes that He cannot be compared to creation. It does not mean we cannot think carefully about how decree and choice relate. It only means that whatever explanation we reach, it cannot reduce Him to human limitations.
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@Emre_1974tr Thank you for the clarification and it makes more sense to it and I appreciate the way you explained the distinction and the analogy. It helps frame the discussion more clearly. I will reflect further on the boundaries aspect and the timelessness point.
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If I may continue this reflection, I find the opening verses of Ch: 2:3–20 very relevant here. In 2:3 it says:
“Those who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them.”
Belief in the unseen is placed at the foundation. But when I reflect on this, the unseen does not necessarily mean blind belief in something irrational. It can mean realities that are not immediately visible but become comprehensible through reflection on revelation and history.
Then in 2:4 it says:
“And who believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain.”
This verse raises an important rational question. If earlier revelations were altered over time, how can one believe in what was revealed before? One way to understand this is that belief is not in the altered historical forms, but in the continuity of divine guidance i.e. the underlying message that whenever God’s plan was followed, constructive social order emerged. In that sense, belief is grounded not in blind tradition, but in historical pattern and moral law.
Verse 2:5 then says:
“Those are upon guidance from their Lord, and it is they who are successful.”
Guidance here seems tied to alignment with a structured moral system. It is not arbitrary favoritism.
Later in 2:20 we read:
“If Allah had willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.”
This is significant. It affirms divine power to override human faculties, yet He does not arbitrarily remove them. Human perception, reasoning, and choice remain operative. That suggests that while God is fully capable of compulsion, He allows responsibility to function within the framework He has established. (I think this is what Emre pointed in his last reply)
When read together, these verses reinforce a picture of a law-governed universe. Belief in the unseen includes trust in a moral structure that may not be fully visible at the moment. Belief in prior revelation includes recognition of a consistent divine pattern across history. And divine omnipotence does not cancel human discretion; it frames it.
In that light, divine knowledge need not imply micromanaged determinism. It can mean complete authorship of a coherent system in which freedom operates meaningfully within boundaries. Accountability corresponds to capacity, and consequences unfold according to established law rather than arbitrary intervention. (ref: Emre post)
These reflections help me see belief in the unseen not as blind acceptance, but as confidence in a structured moral reality that transcends immediate perception.
