Are you a Spiritual Person?
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Peace Fusion.
Mekkah: A focal point for the believers and the messenger- when alive- and a place for gathering to share practice and social functions/duties .Hajj; a set days for GOD s commemoration/ Dhikr and meditation/ plus cultural and social celebrations / thanks giving and thanking GOD for all provisions.
I gave you my reasons why the practice is different and I do not partake with those that do the modern Hajj.Which means I cannot/not able to do Hajj and as far as I know so far, the exception is allowed in the message as I explained. "Limani Istaa Ilaihi Sabeela"
GOD bless you.
Peace. . -
Hi brother Fusion..
Let me chime in with your questions aimed at GL.. We are trios here, unfortunately.If you ask how to perform HAJ, it means you know what Hajj is according to the Quran, but you don't know how to perform it.. It sounds so ritual.. lol.. If you have read my translations where Haj verses occur up to chapter 6, you might notice a clear contrast... Meanwhile, let me add some verses from chapter 22 which I have not yet translated fully.. Glaring verses.. Never you might have read like this before.. Read below..
22:26 And when We did incur to Ibrahim, the awakening stance that not to ascribe with Me a thing, thus, distinctify my awakening to the disseminating ones, and the undertaking ones, yet the persuading of the acknowledging.
22:27 Then, broadcast concerning the chaos at the betaking; as they portray improvisations, yet on every unsophistication; they portray from every wilderness of disparity.
22:28 So that they involve counteractions for them, and consider the Divine attribute during episodes of realities on what He has contented them through a state of enhancement of the blessings. So, internalize through it, yet motivate the rendering of the suffering.
22:29 Accordingly, let them conclude their impurities, thus let them fulfill their avows, then let them permeate with the freedom of the awakening.A keyword here is 'Incurred'.. Yes, the Divine did incur to Ibrahim and it contains lot of hardships that Ibrahim went through.. Then, out of it came the birth of 'AWAKENING/Bayt'.. The stance of the Awakening has its core function.. That is to let people know that never to ASCRIBE with the Divine anything..
So what is the purpose of HAJ, i.e. BETAKING? Betaking for what? Betaking to get the AWAKENING and the stance of awakening is not to ascribe.. But, how to get clarification is done by Ibrahim towards people..
Here in 22:27 'Al Nass' is not the People, but its one of the root meaning is chaos.. Al Nass = the Chaos.. People are filled with chaos.. So, It was Ibrahim's duty initially to 'Broadcast concerning the chaos at the Betaking/Haj.. and then read the self explanatory verses.. The Divine intend that people get rid of impurities and find the truth through the Awakening through events of realities..
Well, if you are good enough to grasp, you will.. Otherwise, you will end up simply doubting.. I understand your position.. Let the Divine open your mind, until then, these verses won't make any sense to you while you have read translations of these verses many times and they are absorbed in your thoughts.
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Dear Good Logic,
I just want to clarify that my question was never about why you personally do or don’t perform Hajj. Everyone has their own reasons and this forum at least the way I see it is for discussing the concept and practice itself not individual choices.From your last message it seems clear that you still regard Makkah the present Makkah City as the geographical place connected to Hajj, since you mentioned the issue lies with how the system and rituals are carried out today and you do not agree on those. That gave me the impression that you see Hajj as something that is geographically linked even if the practice has been corrupted.
What I am trying to understand is: if, hypothetically, the system was pure and sincere again, would you still see Hajj as something tied to that same physical location and the House mentioned in the Quran? Because when you describe Hajj as dhikr, meditation, and social or cultural gatherings, it starts to sound like something that could be done anywhere. If that’s the case, then there would be no real need for travel to Makkah at all.
But if you agree that its a geographically anchored event, then surely there must be certain defined rituals (or structured acts, if not rituals) attached to it like tawaf, standing, or commemoration otherwise people will just create their own versions and it will lose any shared meaning because it is left open to do social gatherings etc as how different groups perform and again there will be disagreement on the practices people do....
So I just wanted to understand your view clearly: do you see Hajj as something purely spiritual and symbolic or as a physical practice that is geographically rooted but corrupted in its current form?
Peace.
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Dear Jkhan,
I honestly see what you mean and in a theological sense the concept you are sharing does make sense that Hajj and Bayt could also represent a deeper awakening or purification of self. I can understand that symbolic layer.But the challenge (not only to me but to all of us I guess-Please folks correct me or do participate in the discussion here) brother is that your translation and linguistic approach to the Quran not just in these verses but across your work is so unique that its very difficult for any ordinary reader to follow or verify. For example, the way you render Bayt as “Awakening,” Hajj as “Betaking,” An-Nas as “Chaos,” ; these are completely different from all known translations or classical lexicons . So if someone wants to agree with your view, he first has to align or calibrate himself entirely with your translation method.
With all respect, thats a big leap because it places your interpretation in contrast with almost every other Quran translation that exists (unless you share any work similar to yours or inspirations).
So yes I get the theological gist you are presenting that Hajj is about awakening and not ascribing partners to the Divine but the question still remains: how do we reconcile this with the plain physical language of the Quran where Ibrahim and Ismail are clearly said to have raised the foundations of the House (2:127) and people are invited to come from every distant pass (22:27)?
Thats why I find your symbolic explanation thought-provoking, touches the intellect of any truth seeking soul, and thank you for your work as its unique and different from rest of the translations.
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I can understand your situation brother.. Cus I was there..
The problem is whoever translated in the past, they had an agenda and they never ASSSENTED/ASLAMA to the Divine with the concept of Relying only in the Divine path.. They looked at the Quran through another lens, that's tradition and culture and hadith books.. So, they would find Haj as those fabrications portray and not as what the Quran, i.e. the Divine teaches us... Rely on the Divine alone, you will know what the truth of this Quran, and this is an amazing book for those who seek truth..
All prophets from the time of Ibrahim did the same thing.. They had a mission of 'AWAKENING' a wider area of people, rather than just delivering to a very minute community as they do daily.. Haj/Betaking was a huge event and only possible once those Messengers/Prophets were well established in the society with a sufficient number of followers..
As Quran states in the story of Ibrahim/Yaqub..
2:132 Moreover, Ibrahim transmitted by it his sons including Yauqub, ‘O my sons, verily the Divine has refined for you the commitment,
so do not die, unless while you are in a state of assenting onesIt is so clear, being a Muslim is almost freed from Hell.. Cus this Muslim has a big meaning as I stated in my earlier threads.. 'ISLAM" is a massive step forward, i.e. an agreement with the Divine subjectively not to follow any path other than the Lord's, the Divine path.. He should maintain this ASSENT, In which there cannot be any Ascribing.. This is the savior from Hell, though he may not get the degree of Janna that the concurred and well-practiced person may get..
Ibrahim's sons and grandsons are not born as Muslims.. Everyone has to have that commitment with the Divine... Unfortunately, we call traditional Muslims or conventional Muslims while they are NOT AT ALL MUSLIMS.. cus they never ASSENTED with the Divine not to follow anything other than the path of the Divine.. They already had their path, which is not at all the path of the Divine.. They are not Muslims.. Though we call them Muslims and they claim they are Muslims.. They believe in God, Yes.. Yet they never assented... Even Iblees believes in God... Believing in God doesn't make a person a MUSLIM.. Their belief is nothing while they don't/won't AGREE with the Divine not to go off track of HIs path..
Time will heal your issues, yet you need to seek vigorously having the faith in the Divine alone..
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Peace Fusion.
GOD has not changed the focal point nor the place /sanctuary.
Of course if the place is cleaned up- GOD Alone and true Islam restored there- Although the restoration that matters is in people s hearts and ways- then I will pay a visit and may be meet you there brother.
Or may be I will just visit the place as a tourist in the future as I travel all over the world to see friends ,family and walk around GOD s earth appreciating history and landmarks. and thanking GOD for His blessings to mankind.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Brother Jkhan I truly appreciate the time and thoughts shared as I find you clearly speak from deep conviction. May the Divine guide us all toward and keep our hearts on the right path. Peace.
Yes brother Fusion.. Let's leave the guidance to the Divine alone.. Let's seek with honesty and integrity.. May the Divine guide us..
I got a message from a member.. He has always thought that a Muslim is someone who follows the religion Islam, or sometimes he thought a Muslim is the one who believes in God, and as you are aware, traditionally, Muslim means or begins with the statement of 'La Ilaha Illah Allah'.. Further, he stated, this thread and the explanation of Muslims makes much sense, and like you, he thanks.. But he wants to know, then what does 'Believe in Allah and do good deeds' mean?
Well, brother, Nothing from the above is Muslim.. You are already aware what it is now..
Let me address the second part of your question.. yes. It is not simply to believe in the Divine.. One has to concur in the Divine, then accompany all good deeds and avoid evils.. Concurring in the Divine doesn't become with words or just cus someone ask you to do.. It comes with lots of reasoning through the Living Scripture.. So you get convinced that the Divine exists, and No other option.. There, you decide to concur in the Divine.. It can happen while reading 'Revelations' of the Divine, too, but without the Living Scripture to buttress it won't happen.. So, that's called in general language, 'Believing in the Divine'.. When you believe in the Divine, you won't become a believer or Mumin.. Mumin is the development of 'FAITH' with many layers, optimistically, where doubts are clarified .. It's full of actions.. But you have to always remain as a MUSLIM until death cus its the agreement with the Divine not to follow any other path and not to associate with the Divine anything.. If you deviate from this manifest agreement, you are not a Muslim anymore.. You can't violate the deal with the Divine.. You may kill a person, and you won't lose your deal with the Divine.. You are still a Muslim.. But, the killing is your evil action for which the Divine has not given permission, unless for the reason given.. So, you have to reform, or you should go through the procedure that you deserve for the killing.. Yet you are still Muslim.. The reason hypocrites are destined to hell, though they believe in the Divine, is that they violated the deal of being a Muslim, plus their ACTIONS were never with faith.. Thank you..NOTE: Brother Good Logic, I sent you a PM in case you have not seen it..
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Peace jkhan.
I have not received any pm Since the update of the forum.
Try again to see if things work .
Sorry brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
@good-logic
I just sent you a Test Message.. Check it.. I am chatting with few people after new version and I am receiving and sending.. anyway check your chats.. If not better you contact Admin.. -
2:136 State! ‘We have concurred in the Divine and what originated upon us and what originated towards Ibrahim, and Ismaeel and Ishac and Yauqub as well the continuity moreover, what rendered Mosa and Eisa and what rendered the illuminating ones from their Lord. Not we differentiate between one among them, while we for Him assenting.’
2:285 Entrusted the dispatcher, in what is revealed unto him from his Lord, even the concurring ones. Everyone concurred in the Divine, and His executors, and His ordainments, and His dispatchers. ‘Not we differentiate between anyone of His dispatchers.’ Even they stated, ‘We heeded and undertook – Our Lord, grace You us, while unto You is the fate.’People asking me to explain then the above two verses.. Here I presented my translations..
These two verses are not accepting Islam or becoming Muslim.. It is the TRUST in the Divine.. you never read anyone's scripture of the past.. You don't know the scripture of Ibrahim and his sons etc.. but you trust that the same message in them. Same you trust in Malaika, you have never seen.. It is not the agreement between the Divine and you to ASSENT.. Muslim is totally different..
Even notice how 2:136 is ending as Muslimun cus they already in the process of Assenting.. Muslim/Muslimun/Muslimeen are related to grammar.. Muslim, someone who assent, Muslimun Assenting one, i.e. the one doing that action, and MusliMeen is the did that action.. all same but grammar wise different..
So, above verses are about TRUST in the Divine and His actions and in His main figures.. You won't become Muslim by trusting these entities.. You should have that AGREEMENT with the Divine.. Then you are a Muslim.. Never ascribe, never follow other paths.. Other paths itself ascribing to the Divine.
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Would you pls send a TEST Message to me in chat... Go to CHATS just below the Notifications symbol.. Let's see whether I receive it.. It is strange that you don't receive Chat Message/PM
Thank you..
