To 'Andya Primanda' n his 'evolution deceit'

jonny_k

First of all, I'm male. You got confused about my gender I guess...

To briefly answer your post--

Evolution can be observed. I can show it to you either experimentally or in the fossil record.

Khi- Salam. Oh sorry. Anyways Id like 2 see u do tht. N dont present me fake n manipulated fossils where the jaw of an orang uttan was attached 2 a human skeleton.

Evolution is not abiogenesis.

Khi- As i said evolution is the process in which complex substances supposedly emerge from the simpler over time by chance. I think i made tht clear.

There had been lots of experiment results that prove that the genome can increase in size and information content.

Khi- Lets say we have a zipped file which is compressed. Yet it contains all the info in it already. We cant call the expansion evolution. All the info necessary 4 the devlopement of a certain animal or human is already present in it. So ur egs here is wrong.

Archaeopteryx also had teeth and long tail, and a head like a lizard's, and it lived before there were birds.

Khi- This fake claim has even been refuted by evolutionists themselves. I see tht ur missing a lot of info. Plz go n see the clip 'Collapse of Evolution' at harunyahya.com n see the last part where the evolutionist scienitist himself admits tht archeopterix cannot be considered a trfans form. Then well talk.

Coelacanth--Do you know that there are actual fossils (not mentioned by Harun Yahya) of fish with legs?

Khi- If ppl have fakes so many fossils be4 wht guaratee is there tht those rnt fakes too? By simple logic if evoultion was true then there wld be countless fossils of such trans forms which i cld even find in my backyard. Yet this is not the case n hence all these r fakes, fraud n rubbish.

Quotes are inferior to evidence. I prefer evidence.

Khi- Evidence of fraud n manipulkation by evolutionists has been given in tht clip. Evolutionists themselves had 2 give up these false claims.

Lots of transitional forms have been found. If you're interested I'll show you some.

Khi- I guess they r all fakes but anyway u can show them 2 me. Once a lie always a lie. If evoutionists have presented so many lies y shld i trust them now n as i said there shld be countless trans forms if tht theory be true. If there r just a few then by logic we can see tht these r faked.

The traits found in Homo erectus and Homo ergaster skeletons fall outside modern human limits.

Khi- Another false claim n even the evoltuionists had 2 admit tht the diffrence in these is ONLY racial. Plz refer 2 the clip again.

Evolution does not need propaganda if it can stand by itself on the available evidence. Oh, and evolution is not just humans descended from ancient apes. It's about the whole history of life after it began (but not how it began).

Khi- The probability tht apes evolved into humans by chance is zero nil. Consider the following
We learn from the Quran that evolution is a divinely designed fact
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Life began in water "From water we initiated all living |
| things." (2130, 2445) |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Humans not descendants of monkeys "He started the creation of man|
| from mud." (327) |
|Man created from "aged" mud "I am creating the human being from |
| `aged' clay." (152 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
The laws of probablity preclude the possibility of haphazard evolution between species. A fish cannot evolve into a bird; a monkey can never evolve into a human.

Probability Laws Preclude Darwin's Evolution

In this computer age, we have mathematical laws that tell us whether
a certain event is probable or not. If we throw five numbered cubes up
in the air and let them fall into a guided straight line, the
probability laws tell us the number of possible combinations we can
get 1x2x3x4x5=120 combinations. Thus, the probability of obtaining
any combination is 1 in 120, or 1/120, or 0.0086. This probability
diminishes fast when we increase the number of cubes. If we increase
them by one, the number of combinations becomes 1x2x3x4x5x6=720, and
the probability of getting any combination diminishes to 1/720,
0.0014. Mathematicians, who are very exacting scientists, have agreed
that the probability diminishes to "Zero" when we increase the number
of cubes to 84. If we work with 84 cubes, the probability diminishes
to 209x10 (raised to the power of) -50, or
0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000209

Darwin's famous statement that "life began as a `simple' cell" is
laughable. As recently as 50 years ago, Wells, Huxley, and Wells wrote
in their classic textbook that "nothing can be seen inside the nucleus
but clear fluid." We know now that the cell, is an extremely complex
unit, with billions of nucleotides in the gene material inside the
nucleus, and millions of biochemical reactions. The probability laws
tell us that the probability of the haphazard creation of the exacting
sequences of nucleotides into DNA is Zero, many times over. We are not
talking about 84 nucleotides; we are talking about billions of
nucleotides that must be arranged in a specific sequence.

Some evolutionists have stated that the human gene and the monkey's
gene are 90% similar. However, even if the similarity was 99%, we are
still talking about 300,000,000 nucleotides that must be haphazardly
re-arranged to change the monkey into a human. The probability laws
preclude this as an utter impossibility. The human gene contains
30,000,000,000 nucleotides; 1% of that is 300,000,000.

A fitting quote here is that of Professor Edwin Conklin; he stated
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|The probability of life originating from accident is comparable to|
|the probability of the Unabridged Dictionary resulting from an|
|explosion in a printing factory. |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+

So get these false ideas out of ur mind once n 4 all.

It would be useful if you learn something about evolution from biologists and not from Harun Yahya. But if you don't want to then I respect your belief.

Khi- U r welcome 2 discuss any pt with me n i suggest u go through the article the refute of evolution in 20 qs. Almost all false pts of evolutionists r addressed there. GOD Bless!

PS Dont let urself deceived by matter 4 everything u n i see is nothing but a copy of the actual original thing formed in our brain n this is a scientific fact.

Andya_Primanda

Khizar, I don't think I can argue about anything with you. You yourself said that everything is just an illusion, so anything factual I throw at you will be dismissed as just illusion.

Peace.

jonny_k

Khizar, I don't think I can argue about anything with you. You yourself said that everything is just an illusion, so anything factual I throw at you will be dismissed as just illusion.

Peace.

Khi- Tht everything is a copy formed in our brain is a fact which nobody can deny 2day. I gave u an example of a dream where u see, hear n even smell things yet u have no connection with the external world. Similar is the case with this world. We can never reach the original. We see only images as GOD pleases. Now i clearly told u tht evolutionists in the past came up with many forged n faked fossils so if u showed me some more how can u guarantee me they r not further deceits. Shld i trust ppl who have been lying throughout since the time of Darwin. Darwin himself said tht in order 4 his evolution theory 2 be proved there ought 2 be countless transitional forms in the earth. So it doesnt make sense tht evolutionists try hard 2 find some every now n then. We can clearly see the fraud in there. Ive also stated the utter impossibility of apes evolving into man. Another qs Y dont we see a single trans form alive 2day? Has evolution reached it's end stage acc 2 the evolutionists? If yes how come? There is nothing like absolute perfection so trans forms shld go on logically. False n misleading concepts like these allow 4 fairy tale creatures lie mermaids, vampires, etc. In fact y havent some humans started 2 evolve into vampires in ceratin regions of violence 2 adopt 2 the nature by the so called "natural selection" theory. All this is just rubbish n a big fraud. There is no bigger fairy tale then the theory of evolution. Yet ppl have got the nerve 2 call it science. GOD Bless!

Andya_Primanda

Tht everything is a copy formed in our brain is a fact which nobody can deny 2day. I gave u an example of a dream where u see, hear n even smell things yet u have no connection with the external world. Similar is the case with this world. We can never reach the original. We see only images as GOD pleases. Now i clearly told u tht evolutionists in the past came up with many forged n faked fossils so if u showed me some more how can u guarantee me they r not further deceits.

This is why I'm reluctant to discuss this with you. You already decided that you will listen to Harun Yahya and you will say that everything I see is only an illusion. So even if I tried to meet you in person and we decide to go fossil-hunting in Africa or Greenland and find a fossil fish with legs, you'll still call it an illusion! And I guess if I take you to the large museums where they store a really huge amount of fossils you'll dismiss them by saying all are fake, illusions. Even if I tried to show you that it's real rock and bones from millions of years ago. They're just illusions.

jonny_k

This is why I'm reluctant to discuss this with you. You already decided that you will listen to Harun Yahya and you will say that everything I see is only an illusion. So even if I tried to meet you in person and we decide to go fossil-hunting in Africa or Greenland and find a fossil fish with legs, you'll still call it an illusion! And I guess if I take you to the large museums where they store a really huge amount of fossils you'll dismiss them by saying all are fake, illusions. Even if I tried to show you that it's real rock and bones from millions of years ago. They're just illusions.

Khi- U exist 4 me coz GOD wants it. Therefore communication is possible coz my n ur conscience is set on 'on' at the infinity pt which can only come from GOD. Yet wht i see n write n wht u see n write is only an image in the brain, NOT the original. This is a proven scientific fact. N secondly im open mided. If we went 4 hunting or any other palce n in a remote place we dig out some trans form then ill ofcourse rethink on tht n study the fossil carefully. GOD Bless!

Kashif

Salam Andya Primanda

I would love to see some of your arguments against Harun Yahya evolution deceit.

I was also duped by his websites and his books. He has written many books in wide area of subjects, but one can see all his books are nothing but allusion disguised into pictures and irrelavant photos. First of all, after reading several books of his, I came to conclusion he has done no actual research on any of these subject, basically he pulling other people works and quoting them in his books with his comments. there u go another book. I.E in "Miracle of Atom" he tries to show Allah sign but none of the work is his all he did present research made of other scientist and present this whole thing as his work. And the fact he believed in so called 'Mandhi' and 'Jesus return' give so much importance in his work got me out of allusions. The point is I don't believe any evolution agruments that coming from Harun Yahya anymore.

I am not a biologist but a Electrical Engineer by profession and studying physics for my MS. I did studying biology in HS.

I do believe there might be some form of limited evolution.

I don't believe that humans are desended from monkeys. Is there any proof out there?

I don't believe species can evolve into another species. I would love to see your agruments of that.

I dont' believe that evolution occur by chance. that's just impossible. Do you agree.

peace
Kashif

jonny_k

Salam Andya Primanda

I would love to see some of your arguments against Harun Yahya evolution deceit.

I was also duped by his websites and his books. He has written many books in wide area of subjects, but one can see all his books are nothing but allusion disguised into pictures and irrelavant photos. First of all, after reading several books of his, I came to conclusion he has done no actual research on any of these subject, basically he pulling other people works and quoting them in his books with his comments. there u go another book. I.E in "Miracle of Atom" he tries to show Allah sign but none of the work is his all he did present research made of other scientist and present this whole thing as his work. And the fact he believed in so called 'Mandhi' and 'Jesus return' give so much importance in his work got me out of allusions. The point is I don't believe any evolution agruments that coming from Harun Yahya anymore.

I am not a biologist but a Electrical Engineer by profession and studying physics for my MS. I did studying biology in HS.

I do believe there might be some form of limited evolution.

I don't believe that humans are desended from monkeys. Is there any proof out there?

I don't believe species can evolve into another species. I would love to see your agruments of that.

I dont' believe that evolution occur by chance. that's just impossible. Do you agree.

peace
Kashif

Khi- Forget his books n view the clips at his site 4 a change at
http//www.harunyahya.com/m_video_index.php
There ull understand better. I also posted an article 'The theory of evolution disproved in 20 qs' on the forum. But i prefer if u go through some important clips 1st like 'The collapse of Evolution', 'The secret beyond matter' n ' THE DISASTERS DARWINISM BROUGHT TO HUMANITY'. All these contain QUOTES of reknown EVOLUTIONARY SCIENTISTS admitting tht they were not right in many instances. If u doubt the quotes go n mail those scientists urself or do a web search. If anything on the clips is wrongly quoted u have the chance 2 pt it out on the forum but dont just make baseless claims. Another thing is i n many others know tht all this work is obviously not Harun Yahya's alone. It is a selected compilation which is done by him. Like i said quotes, discoveries, all scientific observations n facts compiled 2gether. 2ndly i dont agree with everything HY claims especially not in the hadith besides Quran which he endorses but wht is right is right. The truth stands out clear from falsehood. GOD Bless!

Andya_Primanda

Peace Kashif,

For the sake of accuracy, no, humans don't evolve from monkeys. Humans evolve from apes. There is genetic evidence for this like the overall 95% DNA similarity, shared broken genes (like the gene coding for vitamin C and the gene controlling the sense of smell), similar Y chromosome banding pattern.

For the fossil record of humans
http//www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs

And here's a picture (hope this works)
http//www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/images/hominids2.jpg
http//www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html#morphological_intermediates_ex3

(A) Pan troglodytes, chimpanzee, modern
(B) Australopithecus africanus, STS 5, 2.6 My
(C) Australopithecus africanus, STS 71, 2.5 My
(D) Homo habilis, KNM-ER 1813, 1.9 My
(E) Homo habilis, OH24, 1.8 My
(F) Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, 1.8 My
(G) Homo erectus, Dmanisi cranium D2700, 1.75 My
(H) Homo ergaster (early H. erectus), KNM-ER 3733, 1.75 My
(I) Homo heidelbergensis, "Rhodesia man," 300,000 - 125,000 y
(J) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Ferrassie 1, 70,000 y
(K) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Chappelle-aux-Saints, 60,000 y
(L) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Le Moustier, 45,000 y
(M) Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I, 30,000 y
(N) Homo sapiens sapiens, modern

I don't believe I could convince anyone with this... not those ones who already 'decided to know' what's happening back then. But if you wish, we can discuss it.

Evolution occur by chance alone? I also disagree. There is an element of determinism in evolution, namely natural selection.

If you mean that evolution rules out God, I also disagree. God's in charge of everything, including evolution.

ps Not sure if I still have it, but here's something I write a while ago for a conference. About Harun Yahya creationism.
http//redrival.com/evolusi/YOGYA2004.pdf

jonny_k