Debunking the Flat Earth theory
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Samuel Rowbotham's work "The Earth is Not a Globe", first published in 1865, and William Carpenter's "100 Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe", first published in 1885, gained attention within flat Earth communities in the 19th century. These texts became foundational to the flat Earth movement, which promotes crazy and absurd conspiracy theories. However, the impact of these books on mainstream science was limited. Modern scientific evidence, including satellite imagery and footage from the International Space Station (ISS), clearly shows the Earth's curvature. Furthermore, scientific findings show that the Earth's curvature becomes noticeable at altitudes as low as 5 to 6 kilometers above sea level, factors that Rowbotham's observations did not account for. These advancements in technology and empirical research contradict the conclusions drawn by Rowbotham and Carpenter and support the scientific consensus that the Earth is spherical.
Technological advances, including satellite imagery, space exploration, and physical experiments, provide strong evidence for the Earth's round shape. For example, footage from space, GPS systems, and satellite data all show the Earth's curvature. This body of evidence suggests that the arguments put forward by Rowbotham and Carpenter are inconsistent with current scientific understanding and are crazy and absurd conspiracy theories.
Historically, some flat-Earth proponents claim to have filmed the horizon from altitudes above 6 kilometers using drones, balloons, airplanes, and from high mountains, arguing that it appears flat (straight and level). Several such videos can be found on YouTube and other online video-sharing platforms. In some cases, flat-Earth proponents also claim to have filmed the horizon from distances of more than 30 kilometers, arguing that it appears flat at eye level, with their cameras held approximately at human height. These videos are frequently referenced to support the flat Earth theory. At these altitudes and distances, Earth's curvature should be clearly visible. Because scientific measurements, supported by broad consensus among scientists, show that Earth's curvature becomes detectable from altitudes as low as 5–6 kilometers or over distances of 10–20 kilometers, as revealed by phenomena like the gradual disappearance of a ship's hull over the horizon. The appearance of a flat horizon in the aforementioned videos can be influenced by factors like the use of fisheye lenses or wide-angle cameras, which distort the view and make the horizon seem flat (straight and level). Atmospheric refraction can also affect how distant objects appear, which further influences perceptions of the horizon. Lastly, some of these older videos might be CGI-generated, while some of the newer ones could be AI-generated or digitally manipulated, which further casts doubt on their credibility.
Many of the videos about the shape of the earth on online video-sharing platforms are manipulated, misinterpreted, or mislabeled, which ignores the fact that the Earth's curvature is clearly visible under the right conditions. Furthermore, satellite data and GPS systems confirm that Earth's oceans follow a curved surface. This is evident in the disappearing hull effect, where a ship's hull is the first part to vanish as it sails over the horizon, something that would be impossible on a flat Earth.
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Continuing from the previous post, flat-Earth proponents often point to ancient mythological and cosmological descriptions as evidence for a flat Earth. They refer to Babylonian texts like the "Enuma Elish", which depict the Earth as a flat disc surrounded by waters and covered by a solid dome. They also cite Hebrew scriptures such as Genesis and Job, which describe the Earth as resting on foundations beneath a firmament. Additionally, they draw attention to Greek thinkers like Homer, Thales, and Anaximander, who imagined a circular flat world. Flat-Earth proponents further point to certain Buddhist and Indian cosmological models, which place Mount Meru at the center of a flat plane of continents and oceans, as detailed in the Abhidharmakosabhasyam text and accompanying cosmological diagrams that depict Jambudvipa (the central continent in traditional Buddhist cosmology) on a flat disk. They also reference Norse mythology, which portrays Midgard (the human-inhabited world) as a land encircled by the world serpent Jormungandr, with a sky-vault above. Furthermore, ancient Egyptian cosmology depicts the Earth god Geb lying flat beneath the arching sky goddess Nut. Early Chinese texts describe Heaven as a solid dome over a flat Earth. Mesoamerican myths from Aztec and Mayan sources portray the Earth as a flat plane supported by deities, with layered heavens and underworlds. Similarly, the Dogon people of Mali describe the sky as a layered canopy above the world. Lastly, pre-Islamic Arabian poetry and some early Qur'anic exegesis envision a vault-like sky over a flat earth.
In the centuries that followed, Islamic thinkers also considered these cosmological ideas and debated the shape of the Earth. Dr. Omar Anchassi's 2022 study, "Against Ptolemy? Cosmography in Early Kalam", examines how Islamic theologians (mutakallimun) engaged with two competing models. The first was the traditional Near Eastern view of a flat Earth with layered heavens and a firmament. The second was the Aristotelian-Ptolemaic spherical model. The shape of the Earth remained a subject of debate through the 12th century. Some theologians favored the traditional scriptural cosmography, which could be interpreted as a flat Earth, while others adopted Greek-influenced spherical models. Ancasshi pointed out that there was no unified "flat-Earth school of thought." Instead, the debate was pluralistic, shaped by individual interpretation of Qur'anic verses, exposure to Greek science, and personal inclination, rather than reflecting a dominant flat-Earth doctrine.
Maps, such as the Piri Reis Map (1513), The mercator map (1569) the T and O maps (from about 5th to 15th century), The Hereford Mappa Mundi (1300s), the Daedalus Map (16th century), the Ferro Map (16th century), and certain Buddhist cosmological diagrams, including the so-called Japanese Buddhist Flat Earth Map reported in 1907 by the Hawaiian Gazette as discovered by Dr. Kobayashi's brother in a Buddhist temple, which is allegedly a thousand years old and depicts several continents beyond Antarctica, are also referenced by flat-Earth proponents as evidence of a flat, continuous world. However, all of these maps were either symbolic, limited by the geographic knowledge of their time, or designed for religious or navigational purposes, and the Japanese Buddhist Flat Earth Map is widely considered a hoax. None of these maps represent literal observations of Earth's shape. Modern cartography, satellite imagery, and measurements of longitude, latitude and planetary motion confirm that the Earth is spherical. So flat-Earth interpretations of these maps are a total misreading of history.
Some of these ancient cultures also depict the Sun and Moon as small, local objects moving close above the Earth, sometimes travelling across the sky in chariots or along fixed paths. Modern flat-Earth proponents assign specific heights to these bodies, and claim that the Sun and Moon are roughly 4,800 kilomters (about 3000 miles) above the Earth, much closer than in the heliocentric, spherical model. However, modern astronomy shows that this is not accurate. The Sun is about 150 million kilometers away, and the Moon about 384,000 kilometers away, as measured through parallax, radar ranging, and orbital mechanics. Their observed sizes, ecplises, and gravitational interactions all require these vast distances. Ancient symbolic depictions of the Sun and Moon were therefore not literal measurements but metaphorical cosmological concepts.
In light of these ancient cultures, texts and maps, many flat-Earth proponents present them as cross-cultural confirmation that ancient humans believed the Earth was flat. However, most of these texts and myths are symbolic, poetic, or metaphorical, rather than literal descriptions of physical geography. In fact, the same cultures that produced these myths later developed strong evidence for a spherical Earth. Greek philosophers observed ships disappearing hull-first over the horizon, noticed that stars shift with latitude, and recorded the consistently circular shadow the Earth casts on the Moon during lunar eclipses. Eratosthenes even measured the Earth's circumference with remarkable accuracy. Indian and Buddhist astronomers used shadows and celestial geometry to model a spherical Earth. Historical maps, including the Piri Reis map, show distortions and incomplete coastlines consistent with limited understanding of a spherical Earth rather than actual flatness.
In short, the strongest ancient flat-Earth arguments rely on symbolic texts, early speculation, and selective interpretation of maps. The strongest refutations, however, come from careful observation, geometry, and the predictive sciences later developed by some of the same cultures. This shows that the flat earth theory is based on a complete misreading of history rather than irrefutable evidence.
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When I ask flat-earthers, 'Why can't we see the sun at night even with a telescope?', they can't answer. Years later, as a response to my question, they had to make up things like 'objects cannot be seen after a certain distance, their light scatters.
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Peace Emre_1974 and everyone,
Emre, thank you for your thoughtful reply.
I thought I'd share an article about Islamic views on the shape of the Earth here. I consider this article to be important. It's probably the most comprehensive article on the topic out there.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Views_on_the_Shape_of_the_Earth
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Peace everyone,
Flat Earthers frequently bring up several early explorers to support their claims of hidden lands or alternative Earth models. Marco Polo (1271–1295) is often referenced for his reports of unexplored territories, which flat Earthers link to secret lands beyond the known world. Christopher Columbus (1492) is used to argue that he either didn't believe in a spherical Earth or that his discoveries were suppressed. Sir Francis Drake (1577–1580) is mentioned for his circumnavigation, which flat Earthers claim challenges the globe model. Vasco Núñez de Balboa (1513) is mentioned for his discovery of the Pacific Ocean, which they speculate hints at unknown lands. Finally, James Cook (1772–1775) is referenced for his Antarctic expeditions (voyages), which they suggest were deliberately obstructed to hide Antarctica's true boundaries and the supposed lands beyond. However, all of these claims are based on misinterpretations and selective readings of historical records. All these explorers were operating under the understanding of a spherical Earth, and there is no credible evidence to support the idea of hidden lands or suppressed discoveries beyond the explored territories.
Modern explorers like Admiral Byrd, Félix Rodríguez de la Fuente, Paul-Émile Victor, and Mike Brown are also mentioned by flat Earthers to support the idea that Antarctica hides secret lands or that certain discoveries were suppressed to maintain the spherical Earth model. However, these claims are based on misinterpretations of the statements of the explorers, and no credible evidence exists to support the idea of hidden lands or a secret Antarctic ice wall. These explorers were conducting scientific research or exploring well-understood geographical boundaries, with no findings to suggest a flat Earth or cover-up. Research shows the Earth is spherical, and Antarctica is a well-documented, isolated continent. These explorers were simply working with the best knowledge of their time.
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Peace;
By the way, there might actually be something hidden in Antarctica. The Earth could be larger than we're told, and there might be hidden continents. But these aren't related to the Flat Earth theory.
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I agree that flat-earth claims do not hold up under observation (for example, lunar eclipses), but I am uncomfortable with reducing people to insults.
There was a member here Jkhan who held flat-earth views and debated this topic extensively (You can search in archives). I disagreed with his conclusions but I would never describe him as “moronic” or “psychotic.” He was articulate well-read, and sincere in his attempt to reconcile texts with his understanding of reality. Unfortunately, he hasn’t been active here for some time.
Disagreement even strong disagreement does not require dehumanization. If an idea is false, it can be refuted with evidence and reasoning alone. Ridicule adds nothing and undermines the tone of a Quran-centered discussion.
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Peace all!
Flat Earth proponents argue that the horizon appears flat, not curved, even at high altitudes, and they claim that this supports the idea of a flat Earth. However, the Earth's curvature can be observed at higher altitudes, especially from airplane windows, where the curvature is sometimes visible. Flat Earth proponents also contend that water always finds its level and doesn't curve, and claim that this further supports the idea of a flat Earth. But this ignores the fact that gravity pulls water toward the center of the Earth, and creates a curved surface over large distances. Lastly, they point to the lack of observable curvature from airplanes as evidence for a flat Earth. However, all these claims are debunked by science. Airplane flight paths follow great circle routes, which only make sense on a spherical Earth. Additionally, photos from airplanes at cruising altitude sometimes show the Earth's curve. Furthermore, the Earth's round shadow on the Moon during a lunar eclipse provides further evidence of its spherical shape. The idea of a spherical Earth has been accepted for centuries, dating back to ancient Greece, and is consistently confirmed by modern scientific fields such as physics, astronomy, and space exploration. This long-standing scientific consensus has thoroughly debunked the flat Earth theory and renders it obsolete.
There is a small but vocal group within certain Christian circles, particularly in online communities, who promote flat Earth ideas. These individuals often claim that the scientific consensus about the Earth being round is part of a conspiracy to suppress the teachings of the Bible. Having read their views, I have encountered claims that lack strong evidence and are impossible to support with established scientific understanding.
Flat Earth proponents often mention explorers like Admiral Byrd, Félix Rodríguez de la Fuente, Paul-Émile Victor, and Mike Brown as evidence for hidden lands or a giant ice wall that surrounds the entire Earth and blocks access to a mysterious, illusory, and fantasy-fueled outer world. Additionally, flat Earth proponents claim that the discoveries of these explorers were suppressed to maintain the spherical Earth model. However, all these claims are based on gross misrepresentations of the statements of these aforementioned explorers. Antarctica is a continent, not a giant ice wall, and the flat Earth theory's claims of vast, secret lands beyond it are nonsensical, absurd and baseless.
Flat Earth proponents also claim that the South Pole is not a true geographic pole, but rather an arbitrary point where the Earth's edge meets an ice barrier, which prevents further exploration. This idea is not supported by science. The South Pole is a well-documented and accessible location, regularly visited by researchers and explorers, with no evidence of any secret, hidden lands beyond it. The only barriers to access are environmental protections, not any conspiracy to hide the Earth's true shape.
Furthermore, flat Earth proponents nonsensically argue that access to Antarctica is tightly controlled, with only approved tours and limited routes, to prevent the public from discovering the supposed giant ice wall, which they claim marks the edge of the world and blocks access to hidden lands. This idea is absurd and unsupported by modern science. Access to Antarctica is regulated primarily for environmental protection, not to hide a fictitious giant ice wall or fictitious hidden lands. Additionally, flat Earth proponents claim that data about Antarctica (such as maps, satellite imagery, and climate records) has been manipulated or suppressed to conceal the Flat Earth model. To top it off, there is a segment among flat Earth proponents who promote the absurd notion of an endless or infinite landmass and waters, where the Earth extends indefinitely in all directions without any physical boundary. It's obvious that all of these claims are baseless, absurd and contradict centuries of scientific observation and exploration.
Flat Earth proponents also claim that planets are actually stars, not solid, spherical bodies. This is contradicted by centuries of astronomical observation, which shows planets as distinct objects with their own orbits, separate from stars. The observed phases of planets, their atmospheric properties, and their reflection of sunlight clearly differentiate them from stars, which further validates the scientific consensus on their true nature.
Moreover, flat Earth proponents often claim that the Moon is self-illuminating (generates its own light) rather than reflecting sunlight. They argue that the Moon's light diminishes or changes during different phases, particularly when it's a crescent or half-moon, and suggest it emits less light at those times. However, this claim is easily debunked by science. The Moon doesn't emit light and instead reflects sunlight. The apparent dimming during different phases is simply due to the changing angle at which sunlight hits the Moon as it orbits the Earth. During a full moon, the entire face of the Moon is fully illuminated, while in a crescent or new moon phase, only a small portion is lit, which makes the Moon appear dimmer. This phenomenon is a natural result of the Moon's orbit and the physics of reflection. Through careful observation and understanding of the movement of light, we know that the Moon's phases are a predictable, well-understood aspect of our solar system. The Flat Earth theory fails to account for these observations, relies on misconceptions, and ignores the vast body of scientific evidence that consistently supports the model of a round Earth (planet).
In short, the arguments made by flat Earth proponents, whether about Antarctica or other flat Earth-related claims, are based on misunderstandings and misinterpretations, as well as wild, crazy and unsupported claims. The overwhelming scientific data consistently supports the Earth's spherical shape. Case closed.
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As shown in this thread, the flat Earth theory has been thoroughly debunked by science. In the future, I might create a "Debunking Toolkit" (or Philosophical Combat Kit) specifically designed to disprove flat Earth arguments based on Islamic interpretations of Qur'anic verses. This "Debunking Toolkit" (or Philosophical Combat Kit) might include a dialogue and debate between a "Rational monotheist" and an "Islamic flat earther."
