Y is it false 2 think tht GOD created things by evolution?
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Peace everybody,
Excuse me If I've got the wrong end the stick, but I don't think that the pro-evolutionists in this thread are supporting the idea that we came about by chance, but that The God hasn't chosen the things within our universe to come from thin air, but by stages, there are many things that go in progressive cycles, and things that can only be obtained by stages, alcohol for instance, in our universe so its likely that we came about through the same principal. -
Peace everybody,
Excuse me If I've got the wrong end the stick, but I don't think that the pro-evolutionists in this thread are supporting the idea that we came about by chance, but that The God hasn't chosen the things within our universe to come from thin air, but by stages, there are many things that go in progressive cycles, and things that can only be obtained by stages, alcohol for instance, in our universe so its likely that we came about through the same principal.Khi- If by stages u mean first the zagote then the embryonic stage n then onto the formed being then yes tht is wht GOD means by stages. But this is NOT evolution since the code of developement how the individual wld be was already fully coded in the genes. Similarly goes 4 the whole universe. If u dont mean came abt by chance then using the term evolution is unfitting 4 evolution means just tht complex from simple without the aid of any intelligent being. U can ask any evolutionist n he/she will tell u this. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro/sis
Evolution
- A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at development.
- The process of developing.
- Gradual development.
- Biology.
- Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
- The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
- A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements.
- Mathematics. The extraction of a root of a quantity.
This is what I mean, and I assume the others advocating evoltion, we as the faithful ( If indeed we are ) will agree that creation is not in vain.
They remember GOD while standing, sitting, and on their sides, and they reflect upon the creation of the heavens and the earth "Our Lord, You did not create all this in vain. Be You glorified. Save us from the retribution of Hell.
There is a slight difference in connotations when a scientist uses the word evolution and when it's used in different contexts.
The evolution of an organism could well be driven by the most successful organisms meeting a certain critereon to survive, as is a similar case of attaining The God's mercy, another parallel of the universe to ourselves.
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Peace bro/sis
Evolution
- A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
- Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
Khi- Im talking abt the theory of evolution by Charles Darwin n neo- Darwinists. When we talk abt the theory of evolution then in this context it means complex fro simple by mere chanc without the aid of any intelligent source. The prob lies exatly here. Living things dont gradually change into more complex beings. They already have all their features coded in their genes. Changes due 2 random mutations can only coz harm n loss in genetic info n never an iincrease n this is wht the theory of evolution is all abt. The ppl here r trying 2 conciliate Darwin's theory of evolution, which is based on random mutations n natural selection, with belief in GOD although these two view pts r clearly contradictory. GOD Bless!
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Khi- Again this is due 2 ur ignorance. The code of how the universe wld be was already in tht tiny pt from which the universe started expanding. It is not a result of chance as the theory of evolution claims. If theres a code then thts not evolution. For example we cant call unzipping a compressed file evolution if tht is wht u mean. GOD Bless!
If the unfolding of the universe is free of CHANCE and simply an unfolding of a compressed file then why do you think that the development of species on earth through evolution is not a part of that unfolding. Do you believe that it is too difficult for God?
Do you?
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Khi- Again this is due 2 ur ignorance. The code of how the universe wld be was already in tht tiny pt from which the universe started expanding. It is not a result of chance as the theory of evolution claims. If theres a code then thts not evolution. For example we cant call unzipping a compressed file evolution if tht is wht u mean. GOD Bless!
If the unfolding of the universe is free of CHANCE and simply an unfolding of a compressed file then why do you think that the development of species on earth through evolution is not a part of that unfolding. Do you believe that it is too difficult for God?
Do you?
Khi- Unfolodng is different from evolution. Plz underszand this. Evolution says there was no coding be4 but tht it came abt through random mutations n natural selction. Thts the main pt. This means ur confusing the theory of evolution with design. This mistake is committed by many ppl. GOD Bless!
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peace
Khi- Unfolodng is different from evolution. Plz underszand this. Evolution says there was no coding be4 but tht it came abt through random mutations n natural selction. Thts the main pt. This means ur confusing the theory of evolution with design. This mistake is committed by many ppl. GOD Bless!
yes, I agree there must be some confusion of some sort Those with faith will agree that all things happen for a reason as in the verse I quoted earlier. You have to understand that some people mean 'Unfolding' as everything is planned, when they say Evolution.
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yes, I agree there must be some confusion of some sort D Those with faith will agree that all things happen for a reason as in the verse I quoted earlier. You have to understand that some people mean 'Unfolding' as everything is planned, when they say Evolution.
Khi- The term 'variation' is mroe fitting 2 be used when a ceratin animal species results in different races as u mentioned examples of different dogs, cats, etc. As 4 this case also the term 'evolution' shld be avoided since it implies a different meaning in general. GOD Bless!
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Hmm...well the dictionary terms, as well as what I have gained from personal experience is that evolution can be used to explain a progressive/regressive change of something over time. Most of Darwin's theory of evolution is compatible with the view of the quran. It might help to clarify and become closer to the truth if you can explain in summary the alternative to Darwin's theory, though we have already made clear that anyone with faith will accept that the evolution of things has not been brought about through chance, that EVERYTHING happens for a reason.
Peace
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Hmm...well the dictionary terms, as well as what I have gained from personal experience is that evolution can be used to explain a progressive/regressive change of something over time. Most of Darwin's theory of evolution is compatible with the view of the quran. It might help to clarify and become closer to the truth if you can explain in summary the alternative to Darwin's theory, though we have already made clear that anyone with faith will accept that the evolution of things has not been brought about through chance, that EVERYTHING happens for a reason.
Peace )
Khi- Evolution which has not been brough abt through chance n natural selection is NOT evolution in the classical Darwinian sense. When we relate evolution with science there is ONLY one meaning i.e. complex from simpler through random mutations n natural selction. Ofcourse the dic meaning is different but we have 2 see it in the context n in the context of living things devlopement if we use the term evolution immdediately the Darwinaian random n natural sel come up which is wrong.
Also cld u plz tell me how Darwins theory of evolution, which is entirely based on the proncipal of random mustaions n natural selction, be compatible with the Quran. The alternative 4 Darwin's theory is at hand i.e. the code was already perfectly created in the gene n living things formed accordingly 2 tht code. This is known as Intelligent Design. GOD Bless! -
Peace All,
Just a quick point. Last night I was watching an excellent program on African elephants. Interestingly, due to pouching for ivory tusks, it is now evident that 30% of all African elephants are born without tusks. This is due to the fact that those elephants that have no tusks are spared by pouchers and, hence, given a chance to procreate and pass on this mutated gene. If pouching continues at the same rate, almost all elephants will eventually be born without tusks.
Natural selection does in fact exist, and it is part of God's plan. It is an extension of the Law of cause and effect. There's no contradiction in that.
Peace,
Tay -
Just a quick point. Last night I was watching an excellent program on African elephants. Interestingly, due to pouching for ivory tusks, it is now evident that 30% of all African elephants are born without tusks. This is due to the fact that those elephants that have no tusks are spared by pouchers and, hence, given a chance to procreate and pass on this mutated gene. If pouching continues at the same rate, almost all elephants will eventually be born without tusks.
Natural selection does in fact exist, and it is part of God's plan. It is an extension of the Law of cause and effect. There's no contradiction in that.
Peace,
TayKhi- Yes exactly this type of "natural selction" which i wont like 2 call it is due 2 the fact tht the original gene pool which contained all the variations of the elephants i.e. with tusks, without tusks, big teeth, small teeth, etc then divided into different elephant races. It has nothing 2 do with mutation however. Since the original elephant gene pool conatined all these variable gene codes. They were set by GOD in the initial strage. Now if one race, in this case the tusked elephants, is eradicated naturally the others which r not will dominate n those do not contain tht gene code. This however has absolutely nothing 2 do with evolution. All this is due 2 VARIATION in the gene code resulting in different races n this was indeed part of the plan of GOD. GOD Bless!
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Peace Idmkhizar,
I understand that evolution is like a curse word to you. That's fine. But by definition, the case of these elephants is in fact a case of evolving.
I think the point that is agreed upon is that whatever happens, happens within the boundaries of God's Law. The original big-bang, certainly contained all the possibilities that we now live in. But these possibilities had to evolve from their earlier states.
The human body evolves from embryo to full-grown in the span of 20 years or so. A desert evolves from different colored and different sized stones to fine grains of sand. There's nothing wrong with using the word "evolve/evolution". As I quoted in a different thread, even Darwin admitted to the holes in his theory. This does not mean that some if his points were off the mark completely.
Peace,
Tay -
I understand that evolution is like a curse word to you. That's fine. But by definition, the case of these elephants is in fact a case of evolving.
Khi- Wrong! The case of these elephants is in fact VARIATION, not evolution.
I think the point that is agreed upon is that whatever happens, happens within the boundaries of God's Law. The original big-bang, certainly contained all the possibilities that we now live in. But these possibilities had to evolve from their earlier states.
Khi- Note the contradiction in ur statement.< If somethings already there it doesnt have 2 evolve. Evolving is then when something is not yet there. Agaisn this is variation. DONT CONFUSE EVOLUTION WITH VARIATION PLZZZZ.
The human body evolves from embryo to full-grown in the span of 20 years or so. A desert evolves from different colored and different sized stones to fine grains of sand. There's nothing wrong with using the word "evolve/evolution". As I quoted in a different thread, even Darwin admitted to the holes in his theory. This does not mean that some if his points were off the mark completely.
Khi- Plz dont use the world evolve here. It is wrong 4 the complete gene code is already there i.e. it is already complex. Evolve is when something is not there which later comes 2 be there in case of complex things arising from simpler ones. I hope u understood this now. GOD Bless!
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Peace Idmkhizar,
Wrong! The case of these elephants is in fact VARIATION, not evolution.
If somethings already there it doesnt have 2 evolve.
Evolving is then when something is not yet there.
DONT CONFUSE EVOLUTION WITH VARIATION PLZZZZ.
Evolve is when something is not there which later comes 2 be there in case of complex things arising from simpler ones.Had you been the compiler of a dictionary and a proven linguist that could repudiate the current understanding, I might take your words more seriously. Since that is not the case, I cannot.
http//www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=evolution
Main Entry evo?lu?tion
Pronunciation "e-v&-'l?-sh&n, "E-v&-
Function noun
Etymology Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere
1 one of a set of prescribed movements
2 a a process of change in a certain direction unfolding b the action or an instance of forming and giving something off emission c (1) a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state growth (2) a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d something evolved
3 the process of working out or developing
4 a the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) PHYLOGENY b a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations
5 the extraction of a mathematical root
6 a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomenaPeace,
Tay -
Had you been the compiler of a dictionary and a proven linguist that could repudiate the current understanding, I might take your words more seriously. Since that is not the case, I cannot.
http//www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=evolution
Main Entry evo?lu?tion
Pronunciation "e-v&-'l?-sh&n, "E-v&-
Function noun
Etymology Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere
1 one of a set of prescribed movements
2 a a process of change in a certain direction unfolding b the action or an instance of forming and giving something off emission c (1) a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state growth (2) a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d something evolved
3 the process of working out or developing
4 a the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) PHYLOGENY b a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations
5 the extraction of a mathematical root
6 a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomenaPeace,
TayKhi- Ok if u take evolution in tht sense i dont disagree with u. However this is not evolution in the classical Darwinian sense, which is propagated all over the world by "scientists". Since the meaning of this word has been polluted by DArwinism it is better 2 avoid it. Lemme give u an example. Consider the word 'gay'. In the classical sense a very nice word used in English poetry in a phrase like 'hes very happy n gay'. However 2day this word has got another meaning referring 2 male homosexuals, thus becoming polluted n ought not 2 be used in the classical sense anymore. Same is the case with evolution. We now use the term VARIATION. GOD Bless!
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Peace Idmkhizar,
I appreciate your disdain for the word. However, the word "evolution" is far from being only associated with Darwin's theory. It is used in every day English here in the US and there is nothing attached to it when it is used appropriately.
Your example of the word "gay" is not quite equivalent. "Gay" is understood globally as the term for homosexuality. It is rarely used as anything other than this understanding. "Evolve", on the other hand, is used commonly in practically every aspect of life. Companies evolve, relationships evolve, diseases evolve, understandings evolve, and physical matter evolves, all without being attached to the "theory of evolution".
Peace,
Tay -
I understand that evolution is like a curse word to you. That's fine. But by definition, the case of these elephants is in fact a case of evolving.
I think the point that is agreed upon is that whatever happens, happens within the boundaries of God's Law. The original big-bang, certainly contained all the possibilities that we now live in. But these possibilities had to evolve from their earlier states.
The human body evolves from embryo to full-grown in the span of 20 years or so. A desert evolves from different colored and different sized stones to fine grains of sand. There's nothing wrong with using the word "evolve/evolution". As I quoted in a different thread, even Darwin admitted to the holes in his theory. This does not mean that some if his points were off the mark completely.
I appreciate your disdain for the word. However, the word "evolution" is far from being only associated with Darwin's theory. It is used in every day English here in the US and there is nothing attached to it when it is used appropriately.
Your example of the word "gay" is not quite equivalent. "Gay" is understood globally as the term for homosexuality. It is rarely used as anything other than this understanding. "Evolve", on the other hand, is used commonly in practically every aspect of life. Companies evolve, relationships evolve, diseases evolve, understandings evolve, and physical matter evolves, all without being attached to the "theory of evolution".
Exactly what I way trying to get through lol I need to learn to explain myself better!