Do we have to get married?
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Actually, yes, I would. I don't want to get married, but it seems like just to keep my parents "happy", I have to sacrifice my happines, dreams and life. I'd do it without a second thought because my parents have done so much for me and all they expect is to see me get married because in their mind getting married would make my life "happier". I've never considered marriage a holy arrangement in my life. Its all about greed, abuse and lust.
Khi- Salam. Do u want 2 be a Christian Priest who cannot marry? If yes then obviously GOD doesnt like tht. Thts not the way n it is man made. Or is it tht u wanna have sex without marrying. If thts the case then thts against GOD's Law. Or is it tht u dont have any sexual desire? If thts the case then tht is an exception n u shld try 2 get some medication. GOD Bless!
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Thanks for your insulting comments. None of the above criterion mentioned apply to me neither am I gay
Khi- Salam. Neither of my comments were insulting in general but mere possibilities. It's ok if neither apply 2 u. Btw do u believe in Quran Alone?
ifThis is exactly what I have problems with People trying to judge others based on their principles. Why? My life, my rights, I'll be judged at God so why does everyone have to say I will be condemned to hell?? Pathetic indeed is our condition and this is the face of a modern and progressive Islam - give me a break!
Khi- Im not judging u at all. Im just amazed tht y a man who doesnt want 2 commit adultery, aint gay n has sexual desires wld want 2 stay single all his life. How can he manage tht? I just dont understand tht. Does he deliberately want 2 stay away from enjoying himself in a righteous way. Cld u plz explain the reasons as 2 y u wanna live like tht?
The reason, if you care, why I don't want to marry is because in all my life (or at least the miserable culture I come from), I've seen marriage to be a business deal when the groom's family demands material things beyond means from the bride's family. I've seen my aunts get physically beaten up so badly that they were admitted in hospital for weeks. My grandparents begging and taking loans from the banks beyond their means to buy luxury cars for their son in laws. They borrowed so much that my grandfather had to die because he could not afford getting dialysis anymore. This all certainly does'nt make me feel estatic about getting married but perhaps it makes you go visit a doctor and get some medication for stronger sexual desires.
Khi- Wht ur talking abt is cultural marriage. Marriage according 2 Quran means only a contract btw two partners having two eyewitnesses. U do not need 2 go through all tht luxury stuff in order 2 marry if thts wht u wanna abstain from. U can simply marry by the Quranic method n get along.
The next time you so brutally insult someone take a look at yourself and wonder if your harsh words hurt that person. You are no perfect Muslim either. Don't worry about me, you are in more need f God's blessings!
Khi- Im sorry if my qs insulted u. I didnt mean 2 do tht. I thght u wld take them in a general sense. GOD Bless!
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Salaams Dove,
I think I got your point from your first post. I sensed your fears and skepticism and thought that they must have been based on the experiences of the people who are near and dear. I believe that Khizar didn't get that! But men seldom do! Yet I am positively sure that he didn't mean to offend you. It is his way of telling it as it is! Very practical, one plus one equals two! A typical man! To us, women, this sounds awfully harsh! We are so emotional and that is, I believe, is our major problem. We do need to be as practical and decisive as men. But I don?t see that you have a problem in that area. I feel that you are trying to tell this to your parents, that you are strong enough and can make it and live successfully on your own, but it seems that they don?t want to trust that. They don't expect a woman behaving in such a strong and forceful and independent way. To them, this is a new, unexpected attitude coming from their consenting child! Forcing them to walk on untested grounds! And maybe that is why they are pushing you too hard into the marriage direction.
Well, that is how I understand your post and I could be dead wrong!
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Peace dear sisters and brother Khizar.
Contrary to general trend, I'm a male that doesn't really want to get married, but if it needs to be done (to keep my parents happy and the rest of society) its probably going to be done. Now being a male I find it difficult, so I understand how difficult it can be for women.
The way I see it, I want to live my own life, focus and do something in life, and marriage appears to be one big obstruction. However, I must accept that the commitments of married life are a great opportunity to uphold the commitments and keep them pure (e.g. picking up the kids after school, and getting there on time wink ). But this does not mean that we can't live our lifes without getting married.
Having said this, on the surface it looks like happiness is outside the marriage contract (No Khizar, I don't mean sex outside marriage, theres a lot more to life than sex), but then again, we can only gauge the happiness through experience, so it looks like I'm going to sheep along at least with this tradition in this life...
Nonetheless, it appears we all need a bit more freedom on this subject of not getting married.
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Salaams Natu,
Marriage is hard work! Those who choose marriage, they do it unaware of what it holds for them. They mostly marry for the wrong reasons illusion, family pressure, etc...And they never seem to learn from the mistakes of others. Those who, luckily, learn the lesson without going through it, like you and Dove, would of course opt for bachelorism!
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Salam Natu,
Peace dear sisters and brother Khizar.
Contrary to general trend, I'm a male that doesn't really want to get married, but if it needs to be done (to keep my parents happy and the rest of society) its probably going to be done. Now being a male I find it difficult, so I understand how difficult it can be for women.
Khi- Salam. If u dont wanna get married n being a believer i assume tht u wont commit sexual relations outside marriage then this means tht u dont have a desire 4 sex. It is hard 4 me 2 believe tht a man whsoe hormonal funtion is normal 2 control his natural sexual desires all his life. Then again y wld he do tht if he can do otherwise? It doesnt make any sesne 2 me.
The way I see it, I want to live my own life, focus and do something in life, and marriage appears to be one big obstruction. However, I must accept that the commitments of married life are a great opportunity to uphold the commitments and keep them pure (e.g. picking up the kids after school, and getting there on time wink ). But this does not mean that we can't live our lifes without getting married.
Khi- We can but i believe we as believers wld be stupid 2 not get married as then we cant have any sexual relations. Also having a partner in life can be very useful. Most ppl however do not see this.
Having said this, on the surface it looks like happiness is outside the marriage contract (No Khizar, I don't mean sex outside marriage, theres a lot more to life than sex), but then again, we can only gauge the happiness through experience, so it looks like I'm going to sheep along at least with this tradition in this life...
Khi- I still dont get it y n how u wanna manage 2 control ur sexual desires all ur life? Or have u decided 2 take some medical drugs which block those desires? If thts the case i suggest u dont. It will coz more harm than benefit.
Nonetheless, it appears we all need a bit more freedom on this subject of not getting married.
Khi- Ofcourse u r free. Everyone is free. I never said it's prohibited 2 not get married but i cant understand y a believer wont coz of reasons mentioned. GOD Bless!
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Peace.
Welcome back Khizar, I was waiting for you to come back with this kind of material, I was expecting it. Perhaps we might be able to get a few things clear...
Salam. If u dont wanna get married n being a believer i assume tht u wont commit sexual relations outside marriage then this means tht u dont have a desire 4 sex. It is hard 4 me 2 believe tht a man whsoe hormonal funtion is normal 2 control his natural sexual desires all his life. Then again y wld he do tht if he can do otherwise? It doesnt make any sesne 2 me.
I believe that I am a member of the homo-sapien species, not a neanderthal man that has nothing bu a "desire for sex". Obviously, everyone has some form of innate sexual drive, but in no way is that supposed to overcome any other desires, such as those of living your own life, or abstaining from the lifestyle of a married person. If it was as extremely strong as you make it out to be, we would probably have evolved sexual organs in more accessible places like on the hands, so we can go around doing it all the time (Please don't go into an evolution debate here, the subject of this thread is far more important). It appears that you find it hard to believe that someone can't live without having sex Please forgive me for my method of expression, but what the hell do you think people get married for?! The way you've been contributing on this thread it looks like all you see marriage as is a legal contract to have sex! There is much more to being married, and after what Dove told you already I would have thought you'd understand people's feelings. I can safely say that at least 90% of those who (as you said) 'whose hormonal function is normal' would consider other factors besides legal sex before deciding to get married, surely.
Heres something you might want to consider before you write your next post. Sex is enjoyable, so is abseiling, married life can deter some people from getting married, a fear of heights can deter people from climbing up the side of a cliff, and nobody forces you to climb up the side of a mountain, becuase its not compulsory.
We can but i believe we as believers wld be stupid 2 not get married as then we cant have any sexual relations. Also having a partner in life can be very useful. Most ppl however do not see this.
Firstly, lets consider your approach, for everyones benefit. I was half expecting that you would say things like how you believe that people would be stupid by not marrying. Now I'm not one who would take offence at this, becuase I was half expecting language like this from you, but others may find this highly offensive. Please Khizar, expression of views in such a form may roll of smoothly in one of your science/evolution threads, but you must consider peoples feelings when trying to put your opinions across. Dove for example found your posts insulting and originally I wasn't going to participoate but when I read the types of things you were writing, I thoughts this will be worthwhile to get a few points across. Don't get me wrong Khizar, in many instances your enthusiasm and commitments is inspirational, however, you contributions often lack the ingredient of acceptance of peoples views. How can you say such an action is "stupid", even after Dove told you what she did. You could have just said "inappropriate" or "unreasonable", but saying it is "stupid", even after having seen the position people are in, I think has a hint of ignorance in the formula. Saying that most people don't see this doesn't make sense becuase most people get married anyway, no?
I still dont get it y n how u wanna manage 2 control ur sexual desires all ur life? Or have u decided 2 take some medical drugs which block those desires? If thts the case i suggest u dont. It will coz more harm than benefit.
Khizar, I do not crawl on four legs with my tongue hanging out the side of my mouth dribbling with saliva staring and whistling at any female that walks past. This is perhaps your understanding of a 'desire for sex'. Its good to do, but you don't have to. I don't understand how you don't accept this, obviously people can live through the few decades of their lives without having to take drugs or hypnosis to control the 'desire for sex' as you call it. I have already said that I'm going to get married, but I feel that the freedom to choose no to should be established, at least in theory.
And Khizar, before you embarass yourself by suggesting it, nobody here is gay, and nobody here is taking medication, and nobody here needs advice on sexual orientation. You don't have to control yourself to not have sex, you just don't do it. Simple. God Bless! wink
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Welcome back Khizar, I was waiting for you to come back with this kind of material, I was expecting it. Perhaps we might be able to get a few things clear...
Khi- Salam. Yes id really like some clarification here.
I believe that I am a member of the homo-sapien species, not a neanderthal man that has nothing bu a "desire for sex".
Khi- At this pt id like 2 tell u tht Neandertaler is more likely 2 be an old aged human being. It is exactly wht one wld look like if he were 2 reach 900 yrs of age. This has been discussed by Dr. Kent in detail. If u want more injfo i suggest u call n ask him 4 i agree with him on this issue. Neanderthaler aint some kind of monkey. N Quran says tht disbelieveing men were turned into apes n swine n not vide versa. Thts y monkey gened have 96% similarity 2 ours n pigs have 90%. So a Neanderthaler wld rather not have any mor desire 4 he is an aged man n has probably lost all of tht.
Obviously, everyone has some form of innate sexual drive, but in no way is that supposed to overcome any other desires, such as those of living your own life, or abstaining from the lifestyle of a married person. If it was as extremely strong as you make it out to be, we would probably have evolved sexual organs in more accessible places like on the hands, so we can go around doing it all the time (Please don't go into an evolution debate here, the subject of this thread is far more important).
Khi- Then y did u use the term tht we evolve sexual organs. It is an insult 2 me. GOD created them perfectly in the initial stage n it's out fault they r going down now if they r. Now 2 the topic. As i said we can control our sexual desires but wldnt it be stupid 2 abstain from something which can give so much pleasure if done in the righteous manner?
It appears that you find it hard to believe that someone can't live without having sex Please forgive me for my method of expression, but what the hell do you think people get married for?!
Khi- This is exactly the phrase i used as a sunni in regards 2 sex being the main issue of marriage. Now i believe it is a crucial part of marriage amongst others.
The way you've been contributing on this thread it looks like all you see marriage as is a legal contract to have sex!
Khi- No not only tht but tht definitely is a crucial part of marriage.
There is much more to being married, and after what Dove told you already I would have thought you'd understand people's feelings.
Khi- I know there is much more 2 it but i also know tht it is the only way 2 legally have sexual relations in the manner enjoined by GOD.
I can safely say that at least 90% of those who (as you said) 'whose hormonal function is normal' would consider other factors besides legal sex before deciding to get married, surely.
Khi- I agree in a marriage sacrifices have 2 be made 4 each other. But wld anyone want 2 abstain from sex as a believer just coz of those sacrifices which r even good 4 us in our life as we get experience from them? Wld u rather abstain from sex than 2 commit some sacrifices in ur life?
Heres something you might want to consider before you write your next post. Sex is enjoyable, so is abseiling, married life can deter some people from getting married, a fear of heights can deter people from climbing up the side of a cliff, and nobody forces you to climb up the side of a mountain, becuase its not compulsory.
Khi- U honestly compare sex 2 some sport like Abseiling? I believe sex is way more enjoyable tha any other sport or enjoyment in the world. N if someone is afraid of having sex then he needs medical treatment 4 this means he has some problem either mentally or hormone related.
Firstly, lets consider your approach, for everyones benefit. I was half expecting that you would say things like how you believe that people would be stupid by not marrying. Now I'm not one who would take offence at this, becuase I was half expecting language like this from you, but others may find this highly offensive.
Khi- Im sorry if my general statement offended anyone but thts just my opinion.
Please Khizar, expression of views in such a form may roll of smoothly in one of your science/evolution threads, but you must consider peoples feelings when trying to put your opinions across. Dove for example found your posts insulting and originally I wasn't going to participoate but when I read the types of things you were writing, I thoughts this will be worthwhile to get a few points across.
Khi- I didnt even know Dove was a sister be4 i read sister TAJ's post who i thght was male too.
Don't get me wrong Khizar, in many instances your enthusiasm and commitments is inspirational, however, you contributions often lack the ingredient of acceptance of peoples views. How can you say such an action is "stupid", even after Dove told you what she did.
Khi- But my stament was not directed at her. It was a general statement of my n only my opinion.
You could have just said "inappropriate" or "unreasonable", but saying it is "stupid", even after having seen the position people are in, I think has a hint of ignorance in the formula. Saying that most people don't see this doesn't make sense becuase most people get married anyway, no?
Khi- Ok maybe i shldnt have uaed the word 'stupid'.
Khizar, I do not crawl on four legs with my tongue hanging out the side of my mouth dribbling with saliva staring and whistling at any female that walks past. This is perhaps your understanding of a 'desire for sex'.
Khi- How do u know tht this is my understanding of sex? Theres much more 2 it. IMO it starts with romance followed by some tender patting. Tht is much more exciting then the wild animal style u mentioned above.
Its good to do, but you don't have to. I don't understand how you don't accept this, obviously people can live through the few decades of their lives without having to take drugs or hypnosis to control the 'desire for sex' as you call it. I have already said that I'm going to get married, but I feel that the freedom to choose no to should be established, at least in theory.
Khi- They can live but it's very hard or is it easy 4 u? As far as the freedom 2 choose not 2 get married i never said anything against it. U can but i dont understand y anyone wld 4 reasons mentioned.
And Khizar, before you embarass yourself by suggesting it, nobody here is gay, and nobody here is taking medication, and nobody here needs advice on sexual orientation. You don't have to control yourself to not have sex, you just don't do it. Simple. God Bless! wink
Khi- It's not tht simple as ive experienced in myself. It can get out of control. Sex hormones in a normal person r continuously being liberated into the body. It is therefore also possble tht normal ppl who dont have sex 4 a long time may become crazy one day n then indulge in illegal sexual relationships. Therefore it's better 2 marry, IMO. GOD Bless!
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Peace everyone,
You may not want to ever get married (neither did I, because I also didnt want to be married to a stranger my parents thought was nice, and more importantly happened to be from my own race, and related to their family friends, etc, etc), however you never know when you will fall in love with another human being, and find that you want to spend the rest of your life with them, and marriage becomes a real possibility again.
So, never say never. Organised marriage is crap, so keep up your skeptisicm of that practice, dont ever give in to your family's persistence, you shouldnt have to be thrown into a relationship with someone you dont know or dont like, that would definitely displease God. But I wouldnt recommend you rule out marriage out of pure love, one day, it could happen.
Now, to address the first post of this thread, which has kind of been ignored
Salam,
As far as I know, the Quran simply encourages marriage, but does not force it or does it as per the verse that says "...marry away the singles among you..."
If one does not ever get married, would that displease God in any way (I know you all being human won't be able to give me the exact answer, but just wondering).
I honestly dont know about this yet, it does appear to be a given in the Quran. Men and women can create life, but they have to be married to do so, because this becomes a form of making people take on responsibility and live on a straight path. Responsibility is a big theme that continually pops up in the Quran, we have to be responsible for everything we do, because we will be judged in the end, right? So, I'm not sure if not getting married would displease God, as long as you're living right and not sleeping around I think it would be allowed. Marriage means taking on extra responsibility, its not something to be taken lightly.
And neither is love. God guides whom 'He' will...
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This is life and to me as true as it is that there is only one God, it is just that true that there is no such thing as "falling in love". These are all fantasy concepts introudced by hollywood for gulliable people to spend their hard earned money.
I guess I'm just a figment of your imagination then. You may be suffering a form of solipsism.
I lost all faith in humanity, marriage and other such organized BS.
Is Islam ('God alone' as we're debating here, not the form practiced by various sects) 'organised BS' to you too then? Marriage is an important concept that God spends considerable time explaining to muslims, one shouldnt ignore that fact, however much they despise the way marriage is treated in mainstream society.
I had your cynical attitude too once, and I still retain some cynicism in my pysche, but not to love or intimate human relations anymore, a woman changed my life. We're all connected, as much as you'd like to distance yourself from humanity (or relationships), its not possible, you cant control the chain reactions reverberating through us all.
Peace.