How did you reach the certitude about the quran?
-
Hello Elena,
For instance, when you (many of you) want to prove something, you quote quran verses; it seems to me that when somebody uses other sources, sh/e is frowed at, for instance....
I get this impression too.
I think this what happens when you make something absolute truth in your life. Instead of using it as guide to understanding the divine it becomes the source of all truths for all eternity for all mankind. The real danger in this is that in the long run the source itself becomes an obstacle to intellectual and spiritual progress and also it can easily be used to reinforce our prejudices instead of transcending them with understanding.
The only thing we can rely on Elena, in my view, is our God-given Reason, Intuition and Imaginations to arrive at our own understanding of Divine and Divinity...
Regards,
-
peace Elena, All,
No need to apologise sis. the forum is primarily for students of al quran, thus discussions are often (most of them?) based on it. if someone wishes to prove a point, it naturally follows that evidence based on al quran will be regarded as the stronger argument.
the Natural Republic article of the site supports every principle with verses of the quran
That is because its primarily written for Muslims. In my opinion, there is nothing unexpected about that. If one wishes to convince a Muslim, its best to refer to al quran (theoretically).
any person who studies al quran knows it advises us to look at signs/ayatin within it and outwith it. to say consideration of other information is not done is wrong. this approach is against al quran.
perhaps, a clarification is needed... in that we regard al quran as a superior source of evidence, but that does not mean we reject other sources.We will show them Our signs (ayatin) in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord/Owner is witness/testimony over all things?
ayatin is often translated as verses, but this same word is used to describe things outwith al quran. thus, directly implying al quran is full of signs/ayatin, just like the external world. i plan to study as many signs as I can.
Wakas
-
Peace Elena,
I think we can reach a partial certitude with/by the knowledge and this cetitude could remain partial until our death. I also think that some human beings such the prophets reached the certitude.
Personally, I believe that the quran is a guide amongst several guides of the god because of it's content.
I believe it cannot be the word of a human being for the same reason.I am opened to all universal wisdom through or outside the devine books.
Can I ask you the same question, what do you think about the quran as a guide of law...?
Thanks in advance
-
Salam sister Elena,
I believe in the Quran coz of the following reasons- The awesome mathematical miracle of the Quran based on no 19.
- The Quran is the ONLY religious book on the face of the earth which has ever been memorized in it's completely in it's original language by millions of ppl
- The poetic style n logical expressions in the Quran.
- The focus of the Quran on ONE SOURCE OF ULTIOMNATE POWER i.e. GOD n no other things besides Him
- The scientific facts mentioned in the Quran n the fact tht It contains no stament which has been proven false by modern science.
- The amazing no. of attributes it uses 2 describe GOD unlike any other religious book.
- The transitional style of the Quran where it often jumps fropm one account 2 another 2 make it very enjoyable 2 read.
The 1st thing which made me really believe tht the Quran was indeed from GOD was verse 2130 which indicates the big bang n tht every living thing is made from water. But the most important factor 4 me is the mathematical miracle of the Quran. GOD Bless!
-
Peace Marie, all,
Peace Elena,
Can I ask you the same question, what do you think about the quran as a guide of law...?I think one only source or religious sources in general shouldn't be taken as guide of law, but I find the the way proposed here by many of you very wise, studying different sources, verifying, not believing blindly anything even if it is written in this book, using our reason as Lote Tree says, , looking at the nature, science, society, philosophy, life, as Wakas says, holistic way as Idolfree says, not being 100% convinced as TheNabi says -->I find this crucial to not using the sources as obstacle to intellectual and spiritual progress as Lote Tree says, ...
-
as Lote Tree says, , looking at the nature, science, society, philosophy, life, as Wakas says, holistic way as Idolfree says, not being 100% convinced as TheNabi says -->I find this crucial to not using the sources as obstacle to intellectual and spiritual progress as Lote Tree says, ...
As God says...? idea
-
-
Peace Elena,
I think so, but I didn't read anything especifically signed by God.
Thanks for that... It's always much simpler when I know what the other person's beliefs or thought's are, so we can discuss and share more openly. I had made the same mistake with Lote Tree earlier, I apologised to him, and now I apologise to you. I should really stop assuming that people believe that quran is the word of God. oops
PS - God's signature is there for all to see wink
Here's some nice verses I'd like to share with believers and non-believers alike... Peace...
In the name of God, the Almighty, the Most Merciful,
-
This is the narration of truth, there is no god but God; and God is the Noble, the Wise.
-
O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord, and if you do not then you have not delivered His message; and God will protect you from the people. God does not guide the disbelieving people.
Chapter 28
47. Thus, if any disaster strikes them as a consequence of their own deeds they cannot Say ?Our Lord, if only You sent a messenger to us, so that we would follow Your revelations, and we would be of the believers.?
48. But when the truth came to them from Us, they said ?If only he was given the same that was given to Moses!? Had they not rejected what was given to Moses before? They had said ?Two magicians assisting one another.? And they said ?We reject all these things.?
49. Say ?Then bring forth a scripture from God that is better in guidance so I may follow it, if you are truthful.?
50. But if they fail to respond to you, then know that they follow only their desires. And who is more astray than one who follows his desire, without guidance from God? God does not guide the wicked people.
51. And We have delivered the message, perhaps they may take heed.
52. Those whom We gave the Scripture to before this, they will believe in it.
53. And if it is recited to them, they Say ?We believe in it. It is the truth from our Lord. Indeed, we had surrendered before it.? -
-
Peace all,
Interesting thread - my opinion is such that we have already been given conscience, and without being exposed to religion or beliefs of anykind, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to work out that we are supposed to work righteous deeds, and the way Abraham used logical deduction with the heavenly bodies, it is clear that we can easily come to the conclusion that there is only one God without the need of a book to instruct us, we don't need a book to tell us that. The way I see it, we don't need the Quran, but its a great gift for us that we have it, it releases the stress on our consciences D . But as far as the quality of this book goes, (19 or not...) the Quran definitely has something fishy about it that separates it from any other book - the literary quality, the messages, even just the messages in it are enough to tell me that its from God, same with the bible and the torah, (the genuine bits that talk of monotheism and the beauty of montheism). I Appreciate fully how brother LoteTree says that the Quran is a truth, not the truth, that makes sense becuase all truth of everything is not contained, but to me it has definitely come from the guy upstairs...thats what I think at the moment anyway...
-
Peace Elena,
Peace Marie, all,
Peace Elena,
Can I ask you the same question, what do you think about the quran as a guide of law...?I think one only source or religious sources in general shouldn't be taken as guide of law, but I find the the way proposed here by many of you very wise, studying different sources, verifying, not believing blindly anything even if it is written in this book, using our reason as Lote Tree says, , looking at the nature, science, society, philosophy, life, as Wakas says, holistic way as Idolfree says, not being 100% convinced as TheNabi says -->I find this crucial to not using the sources as obstacle to intellectual and spiritual progress as Lote Tree says, ...
My question is simple, it is about the quran as a guide/spiritual guide, not as the only guide.
Looking for your opinion about this spiritual guide; ie positive and negative points according your view.
Thanks
-
Hello Elena,
"...I find this crucial to not using the sources as obstacle to intellectual and spiritual progress..."
I am glad that you have grasped this crucial point! It is hard to convey this simple message to people...
I wish you all the best in your spiritual quest...and I hope you find the certitude of the divine you are looking for...and if you do find any form of certitude then I would love to hear from you... -)
Take care.
Regards,
-
Peace Zenje,
Here's some nice verses I'd like to share with believers and non-believers alike... Peace...
67. O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord, and if you do not then you have not delivered His message; and God will protect you from the people. God does not guide the disbelieving people.
49. Say ?Then bring forth a scripture from God that is better in guidance so I may follow it, if you are truthful.?
50. But if they fail to respond to you, then know that they follow only their desires. And who is more astray than one who follows his desire, without guidance from God? God does not guide the wicked people.Something tells me that you see me now as a non-believer, non-truthful and wicked person
-
Peace Natu, thanks for your input.
Peace Marie,
Marie wroteMy question is simple, it is about the quran as a guide/spiritual guide, not as the only guide.
Looking for your opinion about this spiritual guide; ie positive and negative points according your view.There are things in it that comes to me easily, like 'take care of your parents as they did when you were a small baby'; the verses that end with 'will they reflect?'; verses about no compulsion, seeking knowledge; in general the clarity addressing people, not like the long speeches empty of content (in my view) of Catholics ( I was brought up as Catholic) where I don't find meaning but just words.
I have problems with the parts that talk about hell and heaven, about how bad are some people; I find strange that specific people is mentioned, with their names.Is it something like this what you are asking for? If not, let me know and I will try to answer again.
-
Here's some nice verses I'd like to share with believers and non-believers alike... Peace...
Something tells me that you see me now as a non-believer, non-truthful and wicked person (You shouldn't listen to "something". wink If you notice on my post, that was after I said something on PS to you. That particular sentence was adressed to all members and guests on the board.
Peace be with you, Elena. )
-
Something tells me that you see me now as a non-believer, non-truthful and wicked person (
Very astute observation...
Regards,
-
- And from amongst them is a group that twist their tongues with the Scripture so that you may think it is from the Scripture, while it is not from the Scripture, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.
- It is not for a human that God would give him the Scripture and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!?, rather ?Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.?
-
Peace be upon you Sister Elena, Lote Tree, and all,
Elena, how did you like what Lote Tree said about "meditative Trance"? D
Anyway , Lote Tree, you are definately using good reasoning, this is a message of confirmation, not some brand new religious book.
Yes, meditation is KEY, but most of us cant recognize it in this reading(quran) because it was given to us as some "prayer" and called "salaat". Meditation is about bringing the consciousness and subconcious together, and this is the symbolism of the TIMING of "salaat" at dawn and dusk, the times when day and night MERGE. It is a remarkable thing, meditation, that is. I urge EVERYONE to study it closer. It is truly the process of enlightenment.
