fifty thousand years and revelation

born_again

The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years.

How could Jibreel bring revelations in 23 years if this ayat is to be taken literally?

Any help appreciated ( ? roll

zenje

Salaam Born Again,

How could Jibreel bring revelations in 23 years if this ayat is to be taken literally?

Could you please clarify the question? I'm not sure what the verse has to do with revelation.

Thanks,

Chapter 70

Someone asked about the inevitable retribution.
For the rejecters, there is nothing that will stop it.
From God, Possessor of the ascending portals.
The Angels and the Spirit ascent to Him in a day which is equivalent to fifty thousand years.

born_again

Salaam zenje

7004 suggests that it takes 50.000 years (as we understand) for spirit and angels to ascend to Allah. How did Jibreel (I hope I'm spelling it right) bring revelations in 23 years?

Someone asked me this question I was puzzled at first. But I think he was a little strict thinking that jibreel had to ascend to Allah to bring every revelation. Lol

Peace...

born_again

We have indeed revealed this (Message) in the Night of Power
And what will explain to thee what the night of power is?
The Night of Power is better than a thousand months.
Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by Allah's permission, on every errand
Peace!...This until the rise of morn!

If it takes 50.000 years how can angels come down in the Night of Power?

born_again

PLEASEEE ANYONE I SEARCHED EVERYWHERE BUT COULDN'T FIND AN ANSWER!

Answering-islam asks similar questions to mine, i looked for the answer on answering-christianity but couldn't find. Here's the article please help or i'm going to go crazy (

He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days;
then He mounted the Throne. ... (Pickthall Translation)
-- Sura 574
It was We Who created man,
and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him
for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. (Yusuf Ali)
-- Sura 5016

Is the throne of Allah at your jugular vein? That question is silly, so it seems. Obviously one can easily understand these verses to mean, that Allah is near to you and to everyone equally since he is not in any location in particular. Allah is "everywhere" in the sense that there is no place that is without his presence. What about the throne? The throne symbolizes the power and sovereignty of Allah's rule. One does not need to understand it as a physical location. And in fact, Yusuf Ali translates it as if it is not an act of sitting down on the throne (which is the literal meaning of the Arabic), but as a metaphorical expression for his power.

He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days,
and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). ...
This would solve the question if each mentioning of Allah's throne could always be understood metaphorically. But what then do we make of this following ayat?

And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days -
and His Throne was upon the water -
that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. ...
-- Sura 117
Is the water also metaphorical? Even if it might not be entirely clear where this water was (the ocean, the rain clouds, ...?), this seems to be clearly a statement of location for this throne and no longer to be metaphorical. Also, the Arabic is past tense, and the question is then Is the throne still upon the water, and if not, where has it moved to? And then there is this verse

He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth
in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day,
the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning."
-- Sura 325
The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day
the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years
-- Sura 704

If Allah is nearer to us than our jugular vein, why is there any need for the "affairs" (?), angels and the spirit to travel at all to reach Allah? Is there any interpretation of Sura 325 and 704 which does not involve a physical "distance" between the earth and Allah that has to be bridged?

Sura 5016 could be understood that Allah is equally near everywhere, and there is no place you can go to be nearer to Him than were you are at this time.

Then why does anyone or anything have to travel to reach Allah?

Daniyar

2 born_again

hi!

I think you've got the idea about Throne allegorically expressing the Authority right.

There's an interesting moment with translation of 117. I suggest that Khalifa's translation should be used, because it's the only one that makes sense

Khalifa
He is the One who created the heavens and the earth in six days - and His (earthly) domain was completely covered with water - in order to test you, to distinguish those among you who work righteousness. Yet, when you say, "You will be resurrected after death," those who disbelieve would say, "This is clearly witchcraft."

http//www.submission.org/quran/webqt.php?&indata=11-7&t[]=1&t[]=2&t[]=3&t[]=4&t[]=5&t[]=6

This verse basically points out that Earth at the beginning was covered with liquid, which is, I guess, in accordance with modern science.

The next troubling point is about time. Taking into consideration that there's allegorical ayats as well as staightforward ayats (37) we can come to the conclusion that those frightening numbers like "50.000 years" are used to show the relativity of time, which is again in complete accordance with modern science. There's some info about this matter at Harun Yahya's site - http//www.harunyahya.com/refuted19.php in part named "Relativity in the Qur'an".

Daniyar

And, by the way, in Shabir Ahmad's "Quran as it explains itself" there is exact the same thing about 117, which should be linked with 2130 that recites about the origins of Life beginning in water.

unknownuser

Salaams born again,

sorry but this is my undretsanding using the dictionary and some common sense

325
He arranges the command/affairs from the heaven to the earth then will go up to Him in a day is determined for /set for collected behaviour/conduct of what you transgress.

And the others follow similer line - i think , no 50000 years and stuff,believe it - other then this we will be creating stark contraditions and all.

Although i could be wrong .

God is a Blessing.

born_again

Thank you for your help. I thought nobody's going to help me I found another of the problem at www.submission.com.

The concept of God the Omnipresent who is everywhere at the same time means that He is as close as the jugular vein (5016) and also beyond the furthest boundaries of the universe, at the highest height

"GOD; Possessor of the highest Height." 703

It is very clear here that the author is making up any old nonsense to attack the Quran, for it can be demonstrated that the idea of the Omnipresent God, who is present everywhere at the same time, is also to be found in the Bible. Why is he attacking a Quranic concept that is also confirmed in the Bible?

Furthermore, it is necessary to confirm that verses do not say what the author claims. These verses do not say that it takes between 1,000 and 50,000 years to reach God ! This claim is merely a work of the author's imagination. The words of these verses are as follows

"All matters are controlled by Him from the heaven to the earth. To Him, the day is equivalent to one thousand of your years." 325

"The angels, and the ruh, climb to Him in a day that equals fifty thousand years." 704

As mentioned in claim 21, these verses speak of a scientific theory called 'Time Dilation'. They do not speak of the time taken to reach God !

And I had found one more explanation it suggested that 704 is about the Day of Judgement (can't remember which site it was).

Maybe when everyone dies and as we are resurrected again it will take 50.000 world years to reach to God. But because of time relativity we are going to perceive it shorter of course. Yet this still cannot explain the angels coming down in a specific night, does it?

Mz357 how would you translate 704?

Thanks again and bye....

unknownuser

Salaams Born again,

325
He arranges the command from heaven to the earth then will go up to Him in a day (that) is set for the conduct of your transgressions.

1992
not all who are in the heavens and the earth but comes (unto) the most Gracious as a slave.

704
(will) incline the angels and the spirit to him in Day is determined/set up - armies united in conduct.

078.038
YUSUFALI The Day that the Spirit and the angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (Allah) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right.

This is using Quranic Dictionary and lanes lex. But we must use our own judgment ? finally.

God Bless.