Mingling with the opposite sex ????
-
ok .. so do ya guys think these kinda tops r alright in the pics ?
http//www.pakstop.com/pmforums/showthread.php?t=7203salam ammar .
what if men were wearing lesser clothing , like the tops in the pics . what is ur opinion . would it look alright ? what do u think ?Well if guys wore lesser clothing it would look Gay .. hehehe but it wouldnt really be bad ...
and men exposing their curves ? of their private parts like females are supposed to . is that ok ? also checkout http//www.geocities.com/rationalreality/women.htm
salam.
-
ok .. so do ya guys think these kinda tops r alright in the pics ?
http//www.pakstop.com/pmforums/showthread.php?t=7203salam ammar .
what if men were wearing lesser clothing , like the tops in the pics . what is ur opinion . would it look alright ? what do u think ?Well if guys wore lesser clothing it would look Gay .. hehehe but it wouldnt really be bad ...
Shamsul I really like ur argument .. I think there is nuthing wrong but when Allah said cover ur bosoms then He did mean cover ur bosoms .. dont u think ?
arent they covering their bosom in the pic ? I think they are...)
-
I have studied in Film and I hope to become a Film producer/director in future. Those are who are really in to art, they dont see any nude body as harmful object. Its natural, this is how God created us. The beauty of creation is in its details. Every single being in this universe is naked. We humans are born naked, nature is also naked.
Do you see animals fighting over dress code ?
We humans have developed all these complicated definition of decency based of how you look rather than how you behave has cause enough problem for our society and pushed each other far away.
We have learned to hate God's creation based on appearance rather than appreciating the beauty of it.
May be we should learn to loosen up a bit and try to get the "don?t care" attitude in this dress code complicacy.
Peace
-
haha they are they are but what bout cleavage ?
what is next after covering the cleavage ? I am sure you will find something else as long as you have the intension to look for such things.... where do you draw the lines ? where is the limit ? Who defines it ?
I hope you get my point ..
peace
-
yea but ALlah has specified in the Quran that we should dress in a certain way ? How can we just ignore His words ?
No, God did not specify all those we desire. God gave some abstract limits.
-
Cover your bosom.
-
Lengthen the garments ( doesnt mention how long)
-
Lower your gaze ( can mean to be decent/appreciative/positive in behavior)
Now where did you find those details of how much curve, how much cloth, how much tight, Should it be body hugging or loose and all those details that we humans fight over ? Can these detailed be found in Quran. I dont think so ..
Those who have negativity in their mind will come up with so much of complexity just because they cant control their mind. This is how life starts to get more complicated and problematic.
Peace
-
-
true life is getting a bit problematic for me .. I mean this trivial things are always going in my mind and i m getting sick of it .. dont know how to stop it !!
just relax and try to see the good things rather than all those negativity. You should learn to appreciate the beauty of creation rather than finding a way to hate it. Be natural.
As long as you don?t harm others and help ppl around you than...there is nothing to fear.
Be true to yourself..) Don?t get in to showing off; If you do than, you will fall in the cycle of negativity.
Peace
-
hehe thanx for the advice man .... yah i do appreciate beauty !
goodluck bro... hey! can I get a free ticket of your hit movies ??D
-
Peace Ammar,
2233 And for those of you who pass away and leave widows behind, then their widows will have a required interim period of four months and ten days. So when they reach their required interim, then there is no sin upon you for what they do to themselves equitably. And God is Expert to what you do.
2234 And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to these women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking of them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say. And do not consummate the marriage until the required interim is reached in the Scripture. And know that God knows what is in your souls, so be aware of Him, and know that God is Forgiving, Compassionate.2234 is about widows which is apparent from the use of "these women". In this ayat Allah is asking believers who have proposed marriage to these widows, not to meet them secretly, unless they have something righteous to say. So Allah is allowing them to meet their fiance secretly provided they meet for righteous reasons and their conversation is righteous.
In 5810 The God again allows believers to meet secretly provided they meet for righteous reasons
5810 O you who believe, if you must meet secretly, then you shall not meet to commit sin, transgression, and to disobey the messenger. You shall meet to work righteousness and piety. And be aware of God, before whom you will be summoned.
Where do you get the idea from that believing men and women cannot "hang out" with each other? Nowhere does Allah say that believers cannot meet each other at all.
973 And the believing men and women, they are allies to one another.
874 Those who have believed and emigrated and strived with their money and lives in the cause of God, and those who sheltered and supported; these are the allies of one another.The word used here is "auliya" which is plural of "wali" which means ally, friend, protector, guardian. So believing men and women can clearly be friends, and can meet each other for righteous reasons.
However believing men and women cannot be friends with rejecters, idolaters, hypocrites etc. as they are all enemies of The God
602 O you who believe, do not take My enemy and your enemy as allies, you extend love to them, even though they have rejected the truth that has come to you.
329 Let not the believers take the rejecters as allies instead of the believers. And whoever does so will have nothing with God; for you are to be cautious of them as they deserve. And God warns you of Himself, and to God is the destiny.
4139 Those who take the rejecters as allies instead of the believers "Do they seek glory with them?" All glory belongs to God.
4144 O you who believe, do not take the rejecters as allies instead of the believers. Do you want God to have a reason against you?Believing men and women can be friends of each other and intermingle with each other provided the following conditions are met as mentioned in my earlier post
IMO intermingling of opposite sexes or same sex, secretly or publicly, is ok as far as following conditions are met
- Lower your gaze and dress appropriately
2431 Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
2432 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
3360 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.- Righteous conversation
2234 And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to these women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking of them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say.
- Be aware of Allah's presence
588 Do you not realise that God knows everything in the heavens and everything on Earth? No three people can meet secretly without Him being their fourth, nor five without Him being the sixth, nor less than that, nor more, without Him being there with them wherever they may be. Then, on the Day of Resurrection, He will inform them of everything they had done. God is fully aware of all things.
- Meet for righteousness and piety and avoid sin and transgression
5810 O you who believe, if you must meet secretly, then you shall not meet to commit sin, transgression, and to disobey the messenger. You shall meet to work righteousness and piety. And be aware of God, before whom you will be summoned.
- Avoid lewd, immoral or indecent acts including adultery/fornication
1733 And do not come near adultery, for it is a sin and an evil path.
2569 And those who do not call on any other god with God, nor do they kill the life that God has made forbidden except in justice, nor do they commit adultery; and whosoever does that will receive the punishment.
6013 O you prophet, if the believing women come to make allegiance to you that they will not set up anything beside God, nor steal, nor commit adultery, nor kill their unborn children, nor fabricate any falsehood, nor disobey you in any matter which is righteous, then you shall accept their allegiance, and ask God to forgive them. God is Forgiver, Merciful.6153 Say "Come let me recite to you what your Lord has forbidden for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and be kind to your parents; and do not kill your unborn children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is plain of it or subtle; and do not kill the soul which God has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
732 Say "My Lord has forbidden all lewd action, what is obvious from them and what is subtle, and sin, and aggression without cause
4235 And those who avoid gross sins and lewdness, and when they are angered, they forgive.
5332 They avoid major sins and lewdness, except for minor offencesIf all above conditions are met then IMO there is no prohibition on intermingling. Allah is Merciful and He will probably forgive minor offences (5332).
-
Peace Shams,
Now where did you find those details of how much curve, how much cloth, how much tight, Should it be body hugging or loose and all those details that we humans fight over ? Can these detailed be found in Quran. I dont think so ..
But you are wrong Shams, the details are there regarding loose or tight
3360 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments (jalabeeb). That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
The word used here is "jalabeeb" which is the plural of "jilbab". Jilbab is a LOOSE OUTER GARMENT like a gown or a cloak worn over the regular clothes. So Allah does instruct the believers to wear LOOSE outer garments in front of those they cannot expose their beauty to so that they would be recognized as righteous and pious people and not be harmed.
Cloak \Cloak\ (?; 110), n.
- A loose outer garment, extending from the neck downwards,
and commonly without sleeves. It is longer than a cape,
and is worn both by men and by women.
Gown \Gown, n. n; cf. OF. gone, prob. of the
same origin.]- A loose, flowing upper garment; especially
(a) The ordinary outer dress of a woman; as, a calico or
silk gown.
(b) The official robe of certain professional men and
scholars, as university students and officers,
barristers, judges, etc.; hence, the dress of peace;
the dress of civil officers, in distinction from
military.
He Mars deposed, and arms to gowns made yield.
--Dryden.
(c) A loose wrapper worn by gentlemen within doors; a
dressing gown.No, God did not specify all those we desire. God gave some abstract limits.
The God does not give ABSTRACT limits. He gives some GENERAL but CONCRETE rules about dress code and not abstract.
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
Abstract \Ab"stract`\ (#; 277), a.
Considered apart from any application to a particular
object; separated from matter; existing in the mind only;
as, abstract truth, abstract numbers. Hence ideal;
abstruse; difficult.Abstract is something that exists only in the mind and is not practical. The God however gave us PRACTICAL and CONCRETE rules about dress code which are GENERAL in nature.
I have studied in Film and I hope to become a Film producer/director in future. Those are who are really in to art, they dont see any nude body as harmful object. Its natural, this is how God created us. The beauty of creation is in its details. Every single being in this universe is naked. We humans are born naked, nature is also naked.
Nowhere does Allah allow being nude for art purposes or for films. The idea is to stay WITHIN THE LIMITS prescribed by Allah and not to transgress them.
Tanveer
- A loose outer garment, extending from the neck downwards,
-
hehe shamsul what do u have to say now ? .. ALlah does prescribe you with Concrete laws regarding dress ... but do u guys think dress should be taken that serisouly ? I mean is it a seriously big issue? ok in the eyes of Allah everything is the same isnt it ?
-
peace tanveer,
thanks for your opinion.....I think I am wrong in using the word "abstract", What I tried to mean is that God gave us general outline, not as detail as we humans have made.
Now in the case of outer garments, I am not sure if yours is the only explanation. Cause it doesn?t make sense, using an outer garments over another garments. Than what role does the inner garments play ? Can they be considered as "under garments" like modern days ?
If we are to interpret those verses strictly like that than it makes most dresses of today to be harmful. Like t-shirts, tops and many other type of cloths which fits with the body. I think there are many ways to see this issue.
Different culture has different type of clothing and its changing everyday.
and my common sense is quite confused on the matter that why would God give beauty and ask us to hide it ? May be we need to investigate, what God means by beauty in this verse.
It has become quite clear to me that "hiding tendency" doesnt bring much good in the long run. It creates more curiosity and encouragement towards negativity. "The more you hide the more you invite.."
I think there is more balanced interpretation which focuses more on to our behavior rather than appearance.
Peace
-
hehe shamsul what do u have to say now ? .. ALlah does prescribe you with Concrete laws regarding dress ... but do u guys think dress should be taken that serisouly ? I mean is it a seriously big issue? ok in the eyes of Allah everything is the same isnt it ?
Oh Ammar - how you going to cope dancing with semi naked girls in Bollywood movies? or doing "wet-saree" routines with your co-star?
How you dress Ammar should be a social thing and it is always a social thing. You want to be free to dress how you want to be. In some culture they dress every woman in black hijabs and I think this is terrible because they have no choice in that matter and it only applies to women. Why not men? Women get aroused by men too!!! So men should be dressed in Hijabs in those cultures!!! (that will teach'em!!! a lesson -) )
But in the end Ammar dress in the way it makes you comfortable -)
Regards,
-
Oh Ammar - how you going to cope dancing with semi naked girls in Bollywood movies? or doing "wet-saree" routines with your co-star?
haha r u implying a negative thing r like 'shouldnt do it' or positive ? hahaha
No. Nothing negative meant honest, Ammar. Hey I will love to dance with semi-naked ladies and do the wet-saree routines with my costar -)
I think it will be fun!!! But I can't dance nor am I body beautiful so that counts me out!! -(
But hey I enjoy those song and dance routines in bollywood cinemas -)Acting is just a skill. Just like carpentary is a skill.
Some people are born to act, others just struggle to act and some are made into acting. So don't think but just do it!!!Regards,