Introduction to HJJ
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peace be upon you All,
From PRL
= Haa-Jiim-Jiim
to intend to a certain target, aim at, repair, undertake, repaired/betook himself to or towards a person / place / object of veneration/respect/honour, went/visit frequently/repeatedly, pilgrimage.
overcome another by/in argument/evidences/proofs/testimonies, plead, contend/argue/dispute.
refrain/abstain.Its clear, by the way its used in al/the quran/reading it primarily means debate.
Secondly, it is often used to describe a special event.
Based on an analysis of the root meanings, its clear all meanings related to the voice are not ordinary everyday usages, like a mundane chat. It also describes a specific/special kind of talk.
"argument/evidences/proofs/testimonies, plead, contend/argue/dispute."
If this is linked to the other significant meanings
"to intend to a certain target, aim at, repair, undertake, repaired/betook himself to or towards a person / place / object of veneration/respect/honour, went/visit frequently/repeatedly, pilgrimage."
Its clear its about travel, to a worthy target/cause.
Al Quran clearly talks about a centralised / well-known location.
Thus, my prelimanary understanding is
core HJJ = debate
al HJJ = the conference/symposium
http//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=conference.
A meeting for consultation or discussion.
An exchange of views.
A meeting of committees to settle differences between two legislative bodies.
An assembly of clerical or of clerical and lay members from a particular district in various Protestant churches.
Sports. An association of teams.
The act of conferring, as of an academic degree.http//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=symposium
A meeting or conference for discussion of a topic, especially one in which the participants form an audience and make presentations.
A collection of writings on a particular topic, as in a magazine.
A convivial meeting for drinking, music, and intellectual discussion among the ancient Greeks.
This type of HJJ is similar to what goes on today, e.g. when academics/specialists in a particular field meet to debate/plan/advance/lecture on their area of interest. Even perhaps such things as the U.N. It is simply a gathering of like-minded people with the intention to progress/benefit.
NB The above understanding in no way promotes one sacred location for al HJJ.
All feedback is appreciated.
God bless.
Wakas
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Peace be upon you Wakas,
This has also been my understanding, I agree.
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My understanding is that Hajj is a pre-Islamic pagan ritual that have incorporated in the Traditional Islam. Because Hajj was important source of revenue for the meccan clans in them days...
Regards,
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Because Hajj was important source of revenue for the meccan clans in them days...
'The pilgrimage' still is. For one, Saudi Arabian Airlines would be dead without it.
Yes, I forgot zenje. Hajj has become very big business now!!! -)
Regards,
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Greetings,
Yeah, don't forget the "Zamzam" water!
Anwar Azim
Because Hajj was important source of revenue for the meccan clans in them days...
'The pilgrimage' still is. For one, Saudi Arabian Airlines would be dead without it.
Yes, I forgot zenje. Hajj has become very big business now!!! -)
Regards,
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Peace,
I have always thought that Hajj would be a place where all kinds of people from all over the world meet, to commemorate and praise GOD. Not neccesserily debate, I am not sure where I picked this up from but I thought it was something the believers did, although this Debate concept is very good and keeps us up to date and open minded and in the front line of knowledge and arguements.
This sound more Quranic and lets nature and truth be the most important thing, I like debate because falsehood becomes clear eventually, this concept is quite good but how sure are you that this is Hajj in Quran? Does the meaning fit other verses?
Nural
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Salaam Nural,
The quran is a reading of particular concepts. When you can piece the concept together you can come to an understanding that is most worthy. As it has been described before, the puzzle must be put together, the right pieces put in the correct places so that the final result will be clear.
Joe
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peace All,
The following post provides additional points of consideration
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=47870#47870As a side note, unfortunately, my HDD died recently and I lost a significant portion of my BYT article (which discussed HJJ), so dont expect anything from me for a while (in terms of an article).
Wakas
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Peace be upon you Nural,
I have always thought that Hajj would be a place where all kinds of people from all over the world meet, to commemorate and praise GOD. Not neccesserily debate, I am not sure where I picked this up from but I thought it was something the believers did, although this Debate concept is very good and keeps us up to date and open minded and in the front line of knowledge and arguements.
The God does not require us to get together to "praise" Him as an "object". Nor does the God need "praise" individually. The God is in need of nothing whatsoever.
The God uses the human vessel to come itno the world, therefore we SERVE the One as vessels. So our goal is to purify our selves so that we do not disrupt the "transmission". We must SUBMIT our wills to the God's will.
This sound more Quranic and lets nature and truth be the most important thing, I like debate because falsehood becomes clear eventually, this concept is quite good but how sure are you that this is Hajj in Quran? Does the meaning fit other verses?
It absolutely fits all verses regarding hajj.
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SaLaM idolfree1
The God uses the human vessel to come itno the world, therefore we SERVE the One as vessels. So our goal is to purify our selves so that we do not disrupt the "transmission". We must SUBMIT our wills to the God's will.
Thats what christian say. And why does God need humans to come to the world?
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
Quote
The God uses the human vessel to come itno the world, therefore we SERVE the One as vessels. So our goal is to purify our selves so that we do not disrupt the "transmission". We must SUBMIT our wills to the God's will.Thats what christian say.
This is a confirmation of what came before.
And why does God need humans to come to the world?
Not NEED, but USES man to come into the world. Its like you putting your jeans and shirt on to go outside, you dont need that pair of jeans, you can put on another pair if you want.
Its better to think of human as a mental creation of the God. Just like you can create mental characters in your mind in order to create a story. You do not NEED the mental creation, you can create another character just as easily.
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Salaam Jaxal,
the follwing link could bring an answer to your question
And why does God need humans to come to the world?
http//www.sufism.ru/eng/txts/a_tao_of_islam.htm
Also quite interesting article because of the parallels drawn between islamic and chinese philosophy.
Peace all,
Elke
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salaam Br Kyle and Br Wakas,
You two guys are so great
You just opened my eyes of this difficult word hajj, I have never really understood it.
But this sounds so clear that it must be an debate, conferance between truebelievers.
I mean people comes from different locations and gather and discuss, it doesn't have to be more complicated than this.
God will show us a good but not difficult way.
And all those rituals then must be either manmade or misunderstood right!?
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Salaam Sister Elke,
Well a sort of.
But it would be good to meet people and shake hands and/or kiss eachother on the cheeks etc.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Peace be upon you,
Thanks Majidah D
Yes, Elke, we are instituting "hajj" right here. Hopefully we can follow the verse that says no arguing(jidala) in the debate(hajj).
But I do think there is a GREAT DEBATE that we must still figure out.
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Salam Jax,
you asked
But why are you expecting sufism to have the right answer? Why not sunnis?I don't expect anybody to have the right answer. I'm looking for insight in many places and then form my own opinion. My basis is the quran though.
Have a good day!
LK
