Sun sets in a lake?!

Natu

1885 (free-minds numbering)

So he followed the means. Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said "O Two Eras, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good."

How is this?

unknownuser

Salaams natu,

mistrans/ man!

Gods Blessings.

Andya_Primanda

Transliteration

Hatta itha balagha maghriba alshshamsi wajadaha taghrubu fee AAaynin hami-atin wawajada AAindaha qawman qulna ya tha alqarnayni imma an tuAAaththiba wa-imma an tattakhitha feehim husnan

Y.Ali
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water Near it he found a People We said 'O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.'

R.Khalifa
When he reached the far west, he found the sun setting in a vast ocean, and found people there. We said, 'O Zul-Qarnain, you can rule as you wish; either punish, or be kind to them.'

Pickthal
Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

Shakir
Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.

Literal
Until when he reached the sun's sunset/west , he found it departing/declining (setting) in (at a) water well/spring mixed with black (foul) mud, and he found at it a nation, We said "You (owner) of the two horns/powers/glories, either that you torture, and either you take in them a goodness/beauty."

The key phrase is "'aynin hami-atin"

'aynin (root 'a-y-n) can translated as 'spring' but also 'eye'
http//www.openburhan.com/pages/ob5976.html

While hami-atin (root h-m) is related to 'hamim' which can be translated as 'boiling fluid' and also as 'friend', and related to 'hamiyah', 'blazing'.
http//www.openburhan.com/pages/ob2390.html
http//www.openburhan.com/pages/obd11d.html

It could've been 'eye of (a) friend' or 'blazing eye' but those two don't fit in the context of Dzulqarnain's sight of the sunset.

What do you guys think?

unknownuser

Salaams all,

Heres what i make of it

All these meanings are from lanes and or the quranic dictionary.

Magreb A'shams = The time of sunset.
Tagreb=sets,
He became far ,or distant,from his home or native country;can also mean-He came from the direction of the west.

WaJada=found,to find what was lost,percieve ,obtain,find anyone or anything.
HHa=(make it possessive)
Hameaat = zealotry or tribal pride;scorn,affectation;stubborn disdain.
A'in=Eye,look,hole,spy,spring of water.

1886

Until when he reached the time of sunset he found he was far from home in plain view of scorn/tribal pride/stubborn disdain and found with this people ,we said O Dhul-qarnain either you punish or you treat them with kindness he said as for him who does wrong shall we punish...............

God Bless.

Natu

Lol it makes me wonder now, if in just two posts after just oneday such a big thing can be solved,... couldn't we do this for salaat?!

(I think I'll change my username to "Salat Man")

By the way, how often does the progressive muslims trans get updated? - perhaps this should be put forward.

Good work people - much appreciated! D

truth

This verse is often presented as an example of scientific falsification - ie the sun setting in a pool of water is taken literally.

However the people who received this message knew that the sun did not always set into water but set into sand, mountains etc. that the verse pertains to what was apparent not what is scientific fact.

kzd

1885 (free-minds numbering)

So he followed the means. Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said "O Two Eras, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good."

How is this?

Salaam,
I agree with Turth's post and to add to it

The issue is in not carefully reading to understand the meaning not with the translation or if you like every other translation that has been posted here, or for that matter the Arabic.

If you carefully read, the verse says, ...he found it setting at a boiling lake...
The Quran is faithfully and truthfully reporting what this person found, how it looked to him. It does not say that God says that sun sets in water etc. This is what it looked to the person. In fact considering this a long time ago, he might have very well thought that sun sets in water, God knows. Do you see the difference? Each word of the Quran is chosen with absolute precision.

Peace

Superposition

1885 (free-minds numbering)

So he followed the means. Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said "O Two Eras, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good."

How is this?

Salaam,
I agree with Turth's post and to add to it

The issue is in not carefully reading to understand the meaning not with the translation or if you like every other translation that has been posted here, or for that matter the Arabic.

If you carefully read, the verse says, ...he found it setting at a boiling lake...
The Quran is faithfully and truthfully reporting what this person found, how it looked to him. It does not say that God says that sun sets in water etc. This is what it looked to the person. In fact considering this a long time ago, he might have very well thought that sun sets in water, God knows. Do you see the difference? Each word of the Quran is chosen with absolute precision.

Peace
Now I'm confused. I thought the Qur'an was the word of Allah. Why should Allah put in his book the report of a man, who was not even a prophet? Why did not Allah say explicitly that the earth revolves around the sun, which we know to be the truth? After all, the Qur'an is Allah's word and Allah's word is the truth.

kzd

1885 (free-minds numbering)

So he followed the means. Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said "O Two Eras, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good."

How is this?

Salaam,
I agree with Turth's post and to add to it

The issue is in not carefully reading to understand the meaning not with the translation or if you like every other translation that has been posted here, or for that matter the Arabic.

If you carefully read, the verse says, ...he found it setting at a boiling lake...
The Quran is faithfully and truthfully reporting what this person found, how it looked to him. It does not say that God says that sun sets in water etc. This is what it looked to the person. In fact considering this a long time ago, he might have very well thought that sun sets in water, God knows. Do you see the difference? Each word of the Quran is chosen with absolute precision.

Peace
Now I'm confused. I thought the Qur'an was the word of Allah. Why should Allah put in his book the report of a man, who was not even a prophet? Why did not Allah say explicitly that the earth revolves around the sun, which we know to be the truth? After all, the Qur'an is Allah's word and Allah's word is the truth.

Salaam

Thanks for your reply.

Quran is indeed the word of God. Similar to your question, why should God put quotes from the Pharoah in the Quran? For that matter there are many many people quoted or paraphrased in the Quran, why do that? To first order, the answer is found when considering, why should the sun rise from the East and not the West? Wouldn?t it be a cooler design if the sun rose sometimes from the East and sometimes from the West? The answer is that it is as it is and it is the best design as proven to myself in numerous cases. God?s Reality always beats human imagination. In this case the most important thing to notice is that what I pointed out is in fact how it is. God is reporting how it appeared to the person.
The second order question as to why all of the Quran does not read as God talking to sun directly (do not worship other than God, do not cheat, etc) without using simultudes and explaining previous history, quoting the Pharoah etc, Quran itself answers it in many verses. The answer is that God gives all kinds of examples and uses all kinds of language (direct, quote, paraphrase, simultudes, ?) so that all people can take heed, all can relate to it, yet provide a fully detailed Quran that is full of knowledge incomparable to anything man-made, so that we take lesson from history, ponder and learn or turn unappreciative and turn sour to show our idol worship? Just one example,

12111 In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.

Now if you mean the specific case of just why doesn?t God directly tell us that the earth circulates the Sun then the answer is that we are born in total freedom of choice, totally suspended in midst of freedom of choice to struggle or spend from our trust (volition) and act thus prove to our ownself who we choose as our god, God alone, or others besides him. The answer is that God similarly does not bring us into this world with the knowledge that the earth revolves around the us stamped on our forehead. We are not brought to this world to learn that the earth rotates the sun, we strive for all we have so that in the process we reveal to our own self leaving evidence of it in the material world of whether we choose God as god or we believe others can be god. Do you know how much man has struggled or strived to descover this? Same with the Quran. In the process you will prove to yourself who your God is. On the other hand God does not ask of us to accept what is not true. God does not put nonsense in the Quran and asks us to accept it on faith (the holy spirit nonsense of Paul in the Bible) Instead you will not find large amount of inconsistencies and what is in contradiction with reality in the Quran similar to what is found in every other book that claims to be answering the purpose of life. And the more you strive while not worshiping idols (being biased = worshiping idols) the more you will learn from the Quran.

The day you will see things with eye of certainty is necessarily the day that this life is over. This life with all its wonders were created for us per our own request to be totally free side with God?s position, submit to God alon or Satan?s that there can be other gods beside God.

2210 Are they waiting until GOD Himself comes to them in dense clouds, together with the angels? When this happens, the whole matter will be terminated, and to GOD everything will be returned.

68 They also said, "If only an angel could come down with him!" Had we sent an angel, the whole matter would have been terminated, and they would no longer be respited.
69 Had we sent an angel, we would have sent him in the form of a man, and we would have kept them just as confused as they are confused now.

Finally, why do you use the phrase Allah to refer to God when speaking English?
Peace