=[ Difference between Al-Kitaab and Al-Quraan ]=
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Salam brother Mohammed Mahtab Khan,
Thank you for your informative post.
We must have to look at the usage of words and the pattern of writing.
I totally agree with you
For example
"....... faghsilu wujoohakum wa aydiyakum ilal maraafiqi wamsahoo bi ru-oosikum wa arjulakum ilal ka'abaiyn....." 56
Most of the poeple to whom I met think that washing of foot is not mentioned in this verse only touching the feet or clearning it with wet hands is enough. But if you read it (Al-Quraan), you may not get the explaination. But if you look at the writing (Al-Kitaab) you will surely get the explaination how it is refering to washing.
Your analysis makes sence but I have some questions
Please look at the capitalized letters below
"....... FAGHSILU wujoo-HA-kum wa aydi-YA-kum ilal maraafiqi WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn......." 56
Faghsilu - is refering to "HA", "YA" and also "LA"
Wamsahoo - is refering to "SI" (please note that it is not as above form or pattern "SA")And "LA" from "arjuLAkum" is refering to faghsilu (wash) and it is not refering to wamsahoo.
If we isolate this sentence "WAMSAHOO arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn / wipe your feet to the ankles" from the context, is it grammaticaly correct?
Can we read "WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LI-kum ilal ka'abaiyn" like in "FAMSAHOO bi wujoo-HI-kum wa ayyd-IE-kum minhu/you shall wipe your faces and your hands"?
Can we read "wa ayyd-YA-kum" instead of "wa ayyd-IE-kum" like " wa arjuLAkum"
Let us suppose that there is two possibilities of vowels "Tashkeel",
If the verb masaha/to wipe refers to faces and hands, it could also refers to heads and feets.Let us note that "Bi" is just before heads and faces. Grammatrically we can say "WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum" or "WAMSAHOO ru-oo-SA-kum" like "FAGHSILU wujoo-HA-kum"
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Salam brother Mohammed Mahtab Khan,
Wa Alaiki Salaamun Sister Marie,
If we isolate this sentence "WAMSAHOO arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn / wipe your feet to the ankles" from the context, is it grammaticaly correct?
Can we read "WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LI-kum ilal ka'abaiyn" like in "FAMSAHOO bi wujoo-HI-kum wa ayyd-IE-kum minhu/you shall wipe your faces and your hands"?
Can we read "wa ayyd-YA-kum" instead of "wa ayyd-IE-kum" like " wa arjuLAkum"
Let us suppose that there is two possibilities of vowels "Tashkeel",
If the verb masaha/to wipe refers to faces and hands, it could also refers to heads and feets.Let us note that "Bi" is just before heads and faces. Grammatrically we can say "WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum" or "WAMSAHOO ru-oo-SA-kum" like "FAGHSILU wujoo-HA-kum"
Grammatically I am not sure... We may need more help from our brothers and sisters in here to clarify this.
But from the context it is not correct because the framing of sentences is solely depends upon the pattern of words. So, from the context it is wrong.
One more point is the usage of "BI" just after "Masaha" that is only for the first word and not for the second one as
Famsahoo BIwujooHIkum wa AydIEkum... After "WA" "BI" is not used. But in 1723 "BI" is used just after "WA".
This means the pattern of words chosen for 56 is different than 1723. So, the pattern or flow of words in 56 is clear that "Arjulakum ilal ka'abaiyn" is refering to washing not to wiping.
What do you understand sister Marie?
I want some brothers and sisters to put some light of their Arabic knowledge with grammer.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Regards,
Mohammed Mahtab Khan... in short 'MMKhan'
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Peace be upon you,
Al kitaab (the Book) is an metaphor for life itself, the universe. The God creates by SPEECH "be" and it becomes. By the WORD. We are all "words" as are all creation. Al kitaab is the GRAND BOOK that we are all part of. It is THIS BOOK that is to be read(quran).
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Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear brothers and sisters in Islam,Peace be upon you,
May peace be upon you brother,
Al kitaab (the Book) is an metaphor for life itself, the universe. The God creates by SPEECH "be" and it becomes. By the WORD. We are all "words" as are all creation. Al kitaab is the GRAND BOOK that we are all part of. It is THIS BOOK that is to be read(quran).
I don't find any reference from AlQuraan on your claim. Please do quote with the reference.
May Allah guide us all towards the right path.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Salaamun alaikum brother MMKhan,
Many thanks for bringing up this topic. My question is as w.r.t.
"....... FAGHSILU wujoo-HA-kum wa aydi-YA-kum ilal maraafiqi WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn......." 56
Faghsilu - is refering to "HA", "YA" and also "LA"
Wamsahoo - is refering to "SI" (please note that it is not as above form or pattern "SA")And "LA" from "arjuLAkum" is refering to faghsilu (wash) and it is not refering to wamsahoo.
I dont understand your reasoning. Why does 'amsahoo' require a kasrah or 'ii' sound ?
Is there any Arabic grammar guide which you refer to for this rule ?
thanks and peace
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Salam MMKhan,
WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn can be broken up in two sentences
- WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum =
- WAMSAHOO arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn
About the second sentence, it is complete, we can see the verb (masaha), the subject (you) and arju-LA-kum which is (mafAAool bihi) like "waaydiYAkum".
We could read "WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LI-kum" if "ilal ka'abaiyNI" doesn't exist"
"aydi-YA-kum" and "arju-LA-kum" have the same statute (mafAAool bini) in their in their respective sentence.
The verb which concern feet is masaha/wipe and hands is ghasala/wash, it seems logic (1-fiAAl/veb, 2-faAAil/subject and 3-mafAAool bihi). -
Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear brothers and sisters in Islam,Salaamun alaikum brother MMKhan,
Wa Alaika Salaamun brother MQuran,
Many thanks for bringing up this topic. My question is as w.r.t.
....... FAGHSILU wujoo-HA-kum wa aydi-YA-kum ilal maraafiqi WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn......." 56
Faghsilu - is refering to "HA", "YA" and also "LA"
Wamsahoo - is refering to "SI" (please note that it is not as above form or pattern "SA")And "LA" from "arjuLAkum" is refering to faghsilu (wash) and it is not refering to wamsahoo.
I dont understand your reasoning. Why does 'amsahoo' require a kasrah or 'ii' sound ?
Is there any Arabic grammar guide which you refer to for this rule ?
thanks and peace
No brother, I am trying to explain that all the verses in Al-Quraan got a specific pattern or form or flow where all the words of such verse is designed or fitted.
In that way, when we see the flow of 56 we will come to the conclusion that washing of feet is compulsory either than wiping it.
Like the one below
".... Faghsiloo wujoohakum WA aiydiyakum ilal maraafiqi WA wamsahoo bi ru-oosikum WA arjulakum ilal ka'abaieeni..... " 56
We understand the meaning of "WA" is as "AND" but in
"..... Fazkuroo Allaha qayaaman WA qu-oodan WA 'ala junoobikum...." 4103
What do you understand with "WA" in this verse? It is not "AND".
This the flow or pattern of verses I am trying to explain.
Please think at it carefully and correct me if I am wrong.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear brothers and sisters,Salam MMKhan,
Wa Alaikum Salaam Marie,
WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn can be broken up in two sentences
- WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum =
- WAMSAHOO arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn
About the second sentence, it is complete, we can see the verb (masaha), the subject (you) and arju-LA-kum which is (mafAAool bihi) like "waaydiYAkum".
We could read "WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LI-kum" if "ilal ka'abaiyNI" doesn't exist"
"aydi-YA-kum" and "arju-LA-kum" have the same statute (mafAAool bini) in their in their respective sentence.
The verb which concern feet is masaha/wipe and hands is ghasala/wash, it seems logic (1-fiAAl/veb, 2-faAAil/subject and 3-mafAAool bihi).Thats what I believe in, words can be used in either way as you mentioned "We could read "WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LI-kum" if "ilal ka'abaiyNI" doesn't exist"
In this way we can understanding why the specific pattern has been used in 56. That pattern explains us how to understand the setup of words.
Please take a close look and also see the following verse for the use of words or pattern.
"sayaqooloona thalaathatunr raabi'uhum kalbuhum, wa yaqooloona khamsatun saadisuhum kalbuhim rajmam bilghaibi, wa yaqooloona sab-'atun-wa thaaminuhum kalbuhum qulr-rabbiy a'alamu bi-'iddatihim-maa y'alamuhum illaa qaleelun......" 1822
Look at the bold letters how it has been fixed.
"Rajmam bilghaibi" is refering to what is said before it. And "qulr-rabbiy a'alamu bi-'iddatihim-maa y'alamuhum illaa qaleelun......" is refering to what is said before it.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
May Allah open our hearts to understand the truth.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear brothers and sisters in Islam,No replies? I am curious.
Brother MQuran and Sister Marie, are you ignored me?
Please correct me if you find me wrong. I am not just spreading my understandings but also I am seeking and wanting to correct myself if I am wrong.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Salam Mmkhan,
Brother MQuran and Sister Marie, are you ignored me?
NO and sorry for the delay. I was busy.
I don't change my mind aboutr the verb masaha/wipe, it seems logic it refers both to heads and feets (verb/fiAAl, subject/faAAil and mafAAool bihi which is feets).
I cannot see the connection between 1822 and 56 grammaticallyIf the verb ghasala/wash refers to feets, we should read this
"then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows and your feet to the ankles, and wipe your heads.
The God knows best.
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Salam Mmkhan,
Wa Alaikum Salaam Marie,
NO and sorry for the delay. I was busy.
I don't change my mind aboutr the verb masaha/wipe, it seems logic it refers both to heads and feets (verb/fiAAl, subject/faAAil and mafAAool bihi which is feets).
I cannot see the connection between 1822 and 56 grammaticallySorry if you were busy. I have not shown you any connection between 1822 and 56 but I was still talking about the pattern to see how the verses had been designed. Every verse got its own form. In 1822 you can see a different pattern. And if you look carefully at it, you will know the figure/number of ashaab-alkahaf in the same verse.
When you understand that, it might be easy for you to understand what I am talking about 56.
If the verb ghasala/wash refers to feets, we should read this
"then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows and your feet to the ankles, and wipe your heads.
The God knows best.
What I think here is there are 2 points to understand
1- Steps by step procedure is shown in 56. Like first washing of face, then hands, then wiping of head, then comes the feet. That's why it has not been used as you said.
2- If the verb masaha/wipe is refering to both heads and feets, then I think it should be written as
"wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum wa arjulikum ilal-ka'baiyni"
Is this wrong gramatically?May Allah open our hearts to understand the truth and increase our knowledge.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Salam Mmkhan,
What I think here is there are 2 points to understand
1- Steps by step procedure is shown in 56. Like first washing of face, then hands, then wiping of head, then comes the feet. That's why it has not been used as you said.
It is plausible. But it is familiar that the verb/fiAAl is not far from "mafAAool bihi"
Can you quote another similar example from the Reading when the verb is very far from "mafAAool bihi" like in 56?2- If the verb masaha/wipe is refering to both heads and feets, then I think it should be written as
"wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum WA arjulikum ilal-ka'baiyni"
Is this wrong gramatically?I don't know but this sentence is not fluid.
The letter WA between "ru-oosikum" and "arjuLkum" doesn't imply that the letter Bi before "ru-oosikum" concerns arjuLkumru-oosikum and "arjuLkum" do not have the same statute gramatically, another example from 93
anna Allaha baree-on mina almushrikeena WA rasooluhu
Allah and the messenger do not have the same statute gramatically
"wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum wa arjulakum ilal-ka'baiyni" is not wrong gramatically and it is more fluid than "wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum wa arjulikum ilal-ka'baiyni"
Regards
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Peace be upon you,
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Al kitaab (the Book) is an metaphor for life itself, the universe. The God creates by SPEECH "be" and it becomes. By the WORD. We are all "words" as are all creation. Al kitaab is the GRAND BOOK that we are all part of. It is THIS BOOK that is to be read(quran).I don't find any reference from AlQuraan on your claim. Please do quote with the reference.
What is the "Al Quraan" that you are referencing? The word "quran" means "reading". That which is "read" is the entire visible Universe, which is truly an illusion. From time to time, human beings reach thier Divine Potentials and recieve direct inspiriation from God within. Then this is written down on pages. At no point is there the instruction to NAME certain pages "Al Quran".
There are only writings by humans, MANY OF THEM, which we must listen to and follow the BEST, and the BEST is decided by debate(hajja) and verification.
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Salaams MMKhan,
"wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum wa arjulikum ilal-ka'baiyni"
Is this wrong gramatically?It is not wrong. You can read it as Arjulakum or Arjulikum, .
MMKhan I really can't see the connection between the grammar here and the title of this thread. Can you please tell me why do you see that the difference between Al Quran and Al Kitab is something that has to do with grammar?
Peace.
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Peace Idolfree,
Peace be upon you,
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Al kitaab (the Book) is an metaphor for life itself, the universe. The God creates by SPEECH "be" and it becomes. By the WORD. We are all "words" as are all creation. Al kitaab is the GRAND BOOK that we are all part of. It is THIS BOOK that is to be read(quran).I don't find any reference from AlQuraan on your claim. Please do quote with the reference.
What is the "Al Quraan" that you are referencing? The word "quran" means "reading". That which is "read" is the entire visible Universe, which is truly an illusion. From time to time, human beings reach thier Divine Potentials and recieve direct inspiriation from God within. Then this is written down on pages. At no point is there the instruction to NAME certain pages "Al Quran".
There are only writings by humans, MANY OF THEM, which we must listen to and follow the BEST, and the BEST is decided by debate(hajja) and verification.
What you are saying makes a lot of sense, Kyle. Al Kitab or Al Kitaab can mean the Laws of the Creation (the Universe included). It is what we call in Arabic = Nawamees Al Kown or Nawamees Al Khalq = the Laws of the Creation (the Universe included) that God has set in A Quranun Majeed in A Lawhin Mahfoothe = A Glorified Reading in a Safely Guarded Tablet. The Universe is part of Al Kitaab that is surely a Hudan = Guidance for the Considerate/the Watchful/the Thoughtful , those C/W/T who would look into/"read" the limitlessly, endlessly, the perfectly built Universe and be breathlessly taken by it. The C/W/T who would never stop learning and the more they learn the more their faith in God grows. We hear of some people who have flushed that which we have now as "Al Quran" down the toilet, but Allah comforts the C/W/T by saying that Al Quran is Securely Guarded . The Word of Allah is not for humans to mess up with no matter how hard they try.
Peace.
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peace be upon you all,
great job Kyle, I been looking at your view and its starting to win me over, here's a few examples of signs that go with your view, there are plenty more though
And there is not a creature in the earth, or a bird that fly?s with its wings, but are nations like you. We did not leave anything out of the book; then to their Lord they will be gathered. (638 )
And with Him are the keys to the unseen, none know them except He. And He knows what is in the land and in the sea; and not a leaf falls except with His knowledge; nor a seed in the darkness of the earth; nor anything moist or anything dry; all is in a clear book. (659)
And any matter you are in, or any recitation you do of the reading, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you undertake it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even an atoms weight on earth or in the skies, nor smaller than that nor larger, but is in a clear book. (1061)
The count of the months with The God is twelve months in The God?s book the day He created the skies and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct obligation ; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that The God is with the righteous. (1236)
it also makes sense why the book is fully detailed now
?Shall I seek other than The God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book fully detailed?? Those to whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt. (6;114)
I find the understanding of the book (kitaab) as the laws of the universe/the universe/the book of life as the most superior understanding I have come across
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Salam,
All divine books (2285, 4136) are detailled and explain everything according their purposes (7145, 1689).
The Reading, in arabic tongue is a book (4612), confirms the Divine Origin of the earlier books/revelations and it is a detailed exposition of the Book (divine Law) (1037).