=[ Difference between Al-Kitaab and Al-Quraan ]=
-
Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear brothers and sisters,Salam MMKhan,
Wa Alaikum Salaam Marie,
WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn can be broken up in two sentences
- WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum =
- WAMSAHOO arju-LA-kum ilal ka'abaiyn
About the second sentence, it is complete, we can see the verb (masaha), the subject (you) and arju-LA-kum which is (mafAAool bihi) like "waaydiYAkum".
We could read "WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LI-kum" if "ilal ka'abaiyNI" doesn't exist"
"aydi-YA-kum" and "arju-LA-kum" have the same statute (mafAAool bini) in their in their respective sentence.
The verb which concern feet is masaha/wipe and hands is ghasala/wash, it seems logic (1-fiAAl/veb, 2-faAAil/subject and 3-mafAAool bihi).Thats what I believe in, words can be used in either way as you mentioned "We could read "WAMSAHOO bi ru-oo-SI-kum wa arju-LI-kum" if "ilal ka'abaiyNI" doesn't exist"
In this way we can understanding why the specific pattern has been used in 56. That pattern explains us how to understand the setup of words.
Please take a close look and also see the following verse for the use of words or pattern.
"sayaqooloona thalaathatunr raabi'uhum kalbuhum, wa yaqooloona khamsatun saadisuhum kalbuhim rajmam bilghaibi, wa yaqooloona sab-'atun-wa thaaminuhum kalbuhum qulr-rabbiy a'alamu bi-'iddatihim-maa y'alamuhum illaa qaleelun......" 1822
Look at the bold letters how it has been fixed.
"Rajmam bilghaibi" is refering to what is said before it. And "qulr-rabbiy a'alamu bi-'iddatihim-maa y'alamuhum illaa qaleelun......" is refering to what is said before it.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
May Allah open our hearts to understand the truth.
Regards,
MMKhan
-
Salaamun Alaikum,
Dear brothers and sisters in Islam,No replies? I am curious.
Brother MQuran and Sister Marie, are you ignored me?
Please correct me if you find me wrong. I am not just spreading my understandings but also I am seeking and wanting to correct myself if I am wrong.
Regards,
MMKhan
-
Salam Mmkhan,
Brother MQuran and Sister Marie, are you ignored me?
NO and sorry for the delay. I was busy.
I don't change my mind aboutr the verb masaha/wipe, it seems logic it refers both to heads and feets (verb/fiAAl, subject/faAAil and mafAAool bihi which is feets).
I cannot see the connection between 1822 and 56 grammaticallyIf the verb ghasala/wash refers to feets, we should read this
"then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows and your feet to the ankles, and wipe your heads.
The God knows best.
-
Salam Mmkhan,
Wa Alaikum Salaam Marie,
NO and sorry for the delay. I was busy.
I don't change my mind aboutr the verb masaha/wipe, it seems logic it refers both to heads and feets (verb/fiAAl, subject/faAAil and mafAAool bihi which is feets).
I cannot see the connection between 1822 and 56 grammaticallySorry if you were busy. I have not shown you any connection between 1822 and 56 but I was still talking about the pattern to see how the verses had been designed. Every verse got its own form. In 1822 you can see a different pattern. And if you look carefully at it, you will know the figure/number of ashaab-alkahaf in the same verse.
When you understand that, it might be easy for you to understand what I am talking about 56.
If the verb ghasala/wash refers to feets, we should read this
"then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows and your feet to the ankles, and wipe your heads.
The God knows best.
What I think here is there are 2 points to understand
1- Steps by step procedure is shown in 56. Like first washing of face, then hands, then wiping of head, then comes the feet. That's why it has not been used as you said.
2- If the verb masaha/wipe is refering to both heads and feets, then I think it should be written as
"wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum wa arjulikum ilal-ka'baiyni"
Is this wrong gramatically?May Allah open our hearts to understand the truth and increase our knowledge.
Regards,
MMKhan
-
Salam Mmkhan,
What I think here is there are 2 points to understand
1- Steps by step procedure is shown in 56. Like first washing of face, then hands, then wiping of head, then comes the feet. That's why it has not been used as you said.
It is plausible. But it is familiar that the verb/fiAAl is not far from "mafAAool bihi"
Can you quote another similar example from the Reading when the verb is very far from "mafAAool bihi" like in 56?2- If the verb masaha/wipe is refering to both heads and feets, then I think it should be written as
"wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum WA arjulikum ilal-ka'baiyni"
Is this wrong gramatically?I don't know but this sentence is not fluid.
The letter WA between "ru-oosikum" and "arjuLkum" doesn't imply that the letter Bi before "ru-oosikum" concerns arjuLkumru-oosikum and "arjuLkum" do not have the same statute gramatically, another example from 93
anna Allaha baree-on mina almushrikeena WA rasooluhu
Allah and the messenger do not have the same statute gramatically
"wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum wa arjulakum ilal-ka'baiyni" is not wrong gramatically and it is more fluid than "wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum wa arjulikum ilal-ka'baiyni"
Regards
-
Peace be upon you,
Quote
Al kitaab (the Book) is an metaphor for life itself, the universe. The God creates by SPEECH "be" and it becomes. By the WORD. We are all "words" as are all creation. Al kitaab is the GRAND BOOK that we are all part of. It is THIS BOOK that is to be read(quran).I don't find any reference from AlQuraan on your claim. Please do quote with the reference.
What is the "Al Quraan" that you are referencing? The word "quran" means "reading". That which is "read" is the entire visible Universe, which is truly an illusion. From time to time, human beings reach thier Divine Potentials and recieve direct inspiriation from God within. Then this is written down on pages. At no point is there the instruction to NAME certain pages "Al Quran".
There are only writings by humans, MANY OF THEM, which we must listen to and follow the BEST, and the BEST is decided by debate(hajja) and verification.
-
Salaams MMKhan,
"wamsahoo bi-ru-oosikum wa arjulikum ilal-ka'baiyni"
Is this wrong gramatically?It is not wrong. You can read it as Arjulakum or Arjulikum, .
MMKhan I really can't see the connection between the grammar here and the title of this thread. Can you please tell me why do you see that the difference between Al Quran and Al Kitab is something that has to do with grammar?
Peace.
-
Peace Idolfree,
Peace be upon you,
Quote
Al kitaab (the Book) is an metaphor for life itself, the universe. The God creates by SPEECH "be" and it becomes. By the WORD. We are all "words" as are all creation. Al kitaab is the GRAND BOOK that we are all part of. It is THIS BOOK that is to be read(quran).I don't find any reference from AlQuraan on your claim. Please do quote with the reference.
What is the "Al Quraan" that you are referencing? The word "quran" means "reading". That which is "read" is the entire visible Universe, which is truly an illusion. From time to time, human beings reach thier Divine Potentials and recieve direct inspiriation from God within. Then this is written down on pages. At no point is there the instruction to NAME certain pages "Al Quran".
There are only writings by humans, MANY OF THEM, which we must listen to and follow the BEST, and the BEST is decided by debate(hajja) and verification.
What you are saying makes a lot of sense, Kyle. Al Kitab or Al Kitaab can mean the Laws of the Creation (the Universe included). It is what we call in Arabic = Nawamees Al Kown or Nawamees Al Khalq = the Laws of the Creation (the Universe included) that God has set in A Quranun Majeed in A Lawhin Mahfoothe = A Glorified Reading in a Safely Guarded Tablet. The Universe is part of Al Kitaab that is surely a Hudan = Guidance for the Considerate/the Watchful/the Thoughtful , those C/W/T who would look into/"read" the limitlessly, endlessly, the perfectly built Universe and be breathlessly taken by it. The C/W/T who would never stop learning and the more they learn the more their faith in God grows. We hear of some people who have flushed that which we have now as "Al Quran" down the toilet, but Allah comforts the C/W/T by saying that Al Quran is Securely Guarded . The Word of Allah is not for humans to mess up with no matter how hard they try.
Peace.
-
peace be upon you all,
great job Kyle, I been looking at your view and its starting to win me over, here's a few examples of signs that go with your view, there are plenty more though
And there is not a creature in the earth, or a bird that fly?s with its wings, but are nations like you. We did not leave anything out of the book; then to their Lord they will be gathered. (638 )
And with Him are the keys to the unseen, none know them except He. And He knows what is in the land and in the sea; and not a leaf falls except with His knowledge; nor a seed in the darkness of the earth; nor anything moist or anything dry; all is in a clear book. (659)
And any matter you are in, or any recitation you do of the reading, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you undertake it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even an atoms weight on earth or in the skies, nor smaller than that nor larger, but is in a clear book. (1061)
The count of the months with The God is twelve months in The God?s book the day He created the skies and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct obligation ; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that The God is with the righteous. (1236)
it also makes sense why the book is fully detailed now
?Shall I seek other than The God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book fully detailed?? Those to whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt. (6;114)
I find the understanding of the book (kitaab) as the laws of the universe/the universe/the book of life as the most superior understanding I have come across
-
Salam,
All divine books (2285, 4136) are detailled and explain everything according their purposes (7145, 1689).
The Reading, in arabic tongue is a book (4612), confirms the Divine Origin of the earlier books/revelations and it is a detailed exposition of the Book (divine Law) (1037). -
PEACE, IDOL,
Al kitaab (the Book) is an metaphor for life itself, the universe. The God creates by SPEECH "be" and it becomes. By the WORD. We are all "words" as are all creation. Al kitaab is the GRAND BOOK that we are all part of. It is THIS BOOK that is to be read(quran).
2775 And there is nothing concealed in the heaven and the earth but it is in a clear book.
2775 Wama min ghaibatin fee assamai walardi illa fee kitabin mubeen
413 A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;-
413 Kitabun fussilat ayatuhu quranan AAarabiyyan liqawmin yaAAlamoon.
Clearly, then, kitab, is used for both Al-Quran, that body of work from Al-Fathihah to Al-Nas, and , as you've pointed out, the Universe at large. What is important for me is that, both are fully detailed/omitting nothing relative to man's guidance , thus, obivating any need for extra-Quranic sources i.e. sunnah and hadith, for one's guidance.
-
Peace PB, All
The word Kitaab has more than one meaning. One of them is the Divine Laws that Allah has created the universe according to them.
The word Fussilat does not mean detailed. It means cut to the exact (if I would translate it from the dictionary). You can check Fussilat's meaning in most of the Arabic dictionaries (if you know Arabic) in this link http//qamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Sub=%dd%d5%e1%ca
You will not find the words shar7 or Is-hab which both mean detail.
-
salams all,
this thread escaped my attention, or i would have posted sooner.
There is a difference between Al-Kitaab and Al-Quraan.
It can be seen from the following verses
"Thaalika AL-KITAABU laa raiyba feehi, hudan-LILMUTTAQEEN" 22
"Shahru Ramadhaanal-lazee unzila feehi AL-QURAANU hudan-LIN-NAAS" 2185
Al-Kitaab is a guidance for Muttaqeen
Al-Quraan is a guidance for NaasThis both cannot be the same.
You need to look more carefully at the beginning of surah 2. There are 2 groups of people, muttaqeen (those people who wish to save themselves from the various thorns in their path) and those who are not (kuffar). People who are not muttaqeen means people who do not care to save themselves from the various thorns their paths may encounter. They don't care if the path they have taken will lead them straight off of a cliff. They are more interested in immediate joys and immediate rewards, rather than their future rewards/punishments. The Quran says about these people, it is the same whether you warn them or not! And that makes sense, since obviously, if the Quran is meant for those who WANT to protect their future, it will be wasted on someone who does not truly care about their future!
In that verse, it does not say that this book is not for them. It says it makes no difference whether you warn them or not. But, of course this book and this religion has been sent for the guidance of humanity as a whole.
if you read it (Al-Quraan), you may not get the explaination. But if you look at the writing (Al-Kitaab) you will surely get the explaination how it is refering to washing.
I dont know if you're being serious here. Are you saying al-kitaab is inaccessible then, to the blind person or visually impaired?? This distinction you are making is purely artificial and superficial and is not substantiated in the roots. If your knowledge of Arabic is deep, you can interpret verses just by hearing them... there is nothing magical about seeing it in writing with your eyes.
For the time being i'll ignore the rest of the grammatical discussion which is irrelevant to the point at hand.
kitaab is a general word but is very often used to refer to the Quran. The context lets us know what the usage is, and in 22, it refers to the Quran.
413 is another good example.
As far as the meaning for FA-SA-LA, brother Taj, you need to investigate deeper than a dictionary. Because the dictionary will reduce words to a simple explanation like cut, but in reality, fa-sa-la means to separate 2 things in a way that you know where one stops and the other begins. To a simpleton this may sound like cutting, but it reality it entails a great ability to discern between things. You can find a more detailed explanation can be found in any lexicon (since you read Arabic).
-
PEACE, TAJ,
Peace PB, All
The word Kitaab has more than one meaning. One of them is the Divine Laws that Allah has created the universe according to them.
The word Fussilat does not mean detailed. It means cut to the exact (if I would translate it from the dictionary). You can check Fussilat's meaning in most of the Arabic dictionaries (if you know Arabic) in this link http//qamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Sub=%dd%d5%e1%ca
You will not find the words shar7 or Is-hab which both mean detail.
According to the following definition, fussilat, is a deritive of fasala-detailed
Main Entry FASALA/DETAILED expatiate into detail; fully detailed; make clear statements/clearly explained; distinct. page 428.
You wrote fussilat="cut to the exact". I'm having a difficult time distinguishing the difference between "cut to the exact" and fully detailed. When Allah, "cuts something to the exact", what about that thing, then, is not fully detailed?
Given your definition then, what, relative to the following definition of guidance, hasn't Allah, in His Quran, "cut exactly"?
Guidance the instructions on how to live a righteous life (not doing shirk) 2185 & 649, so that, one may pass the test of conduct 187, thus, avoiding Hell and gaining Paradise 649.], thus, obivating any need for extra-Quranic sources i.e. sunnah and hadith, for one's guidance.
2185 Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear Ayats for guidance and the criterion. ...So you may glorify Him that He has guided you; and perchance you shall be grateful.
187 That which is on earth we have made but as a glittering show for the earth, in order that We may test them - as to which of them are best in conduct.
649 The Day that He assembles you (all) for a Day of Assembly,- that will be a Day of mutual loss and gain (among you), and those who believe in Allah and work righteousness,- He will remove from them their ills, and He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever that will be the Supreme Achievement.
-
Greetings with peace,
If it means "cut to the exact", then it must be no more and no less. This meaning also does not allow other sources. In any case, whether it is "cut to the exact" or "fully detailed" in regards to guidance, what has been communicated is sufficient, i.e. the guidance is self-sufficient.
Anwar Azim
Peace PB, All
The word Kitaab has more than one meaning. One of them is the Divine Laws that Allah has created the universe according to them.The word Fussilat does not mean detailed. It means cut to the exact (if I would translate it from the dictionary). You can check Fussilat's meaning in most of the Arabic dictionaries (if you know Arabic) in this link http//qamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Sub=%dd%d5%e1%ca
You will not find the words shar7 or Is-hab which both mean detail.
-
Salaams PB,
PEACE, TAJ,
Peace PB, All
The word Kitaab has more than one meaning. One of them is the Divine Laws that Allah has created the universe according to them.
The word Fussilat does not mean detailed. It means cut to the exact (if I would translate it from the dictionary). You can check Fussilat's meaning in most of the Arabic dictionaries (if you know Arabic) in this link http//qamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Sub=%dd%d5%e1%ca
You will not find the words shar7 or Is-hab which both mean detail.
According to the following definition, fussilat, is a deritive of fasala-detailed
Main Entry FASALA/DETAILED expatiate into detail; fully detailed; make clear statements/clearly explained; distinct. page 428.
Can I ask you Based on what source did you get your translation? Because the link I gave to you
http//qamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_1.asp?Sub=%dd%d5%e1%ca
has Lisaan Al3arab, Al Ghaney, Al Wasee6, Al Mu7ee6.You wrote fussilat="cut to the exact". I'm having a difficult time distinguishing the difference between "cut to the exact" and fully detailed. When Allah, "cuts something to the exact", what about that thing, then, is not fully detailed?
Iwrote It means cut to the exact (if I would translate it from the dictionary). This is the closest I could come up with, but ?detailed? is just not there!
Given your definition then, what, relative to the following definition of guidance, hasn't Allah, in His Quran, "cut exactly"?
Not my definition, PB. Please check the link! Maybe you can translate what is in there better than me. Everything in the Quran is perfectly and exactly put, cut, drawn, designed. But the Quran does not go into details regarding many issues. As a matter of fact what I see is that the Quran is a perfect summary of Al Kitaab.
And I think that the AHadeeth that the traditional Muslims invented and are so badly clinging to is because they are so thirsty for details, details they couldn't find in the Quran, details about Salat, etc..Don't you think?And that is why you see them taking stories from the Bible and Torah.