Psilocybin Mushrooms
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Peace be upon everyone,
Do you think that Psilocybin Mushrooms can bring about experiences like those that are talked about when people have Near Death Experiences? Have any of you had an experience with a natural growing psychadelic drug (not LSD or anything like that)? If so, how would you describe your experience? -
Peace Peace oops
Do you think that Psilocybin Mushrooms can bring about experiences like those that are talked about when people have Near Death Experiences?
I think that any drug can bring on any experience, we are limited in our experience when we harbour that heavy fear that keeps us grounded as though our wings were clipped.
When we remove the veils of fear we begin to experience greater things, as our perception now is open to more light, more sight and more vision.
peace,
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Peace be upon you Khalil ) ,
I agree with you in that our experiences with natural drugs can be limited when we harbour fear, or when we have to confront psychological issues that we are not yet ready to confront. However, I'm not too sure that any drug can bring on any experience, for instance, alcohol doesn't really bring you any new insight into your mind or the world, rather, it dulls your mind.
My interest has been kindled though, with regards to entheogen's, as they seem to bring about life changing, spiritual experiences. Unfortunately, I myself have not tried any of these drugs (aside from cannabis), and I'd like to gain more knowledge before I choose to do so. What I find fascinating, is that these plants have the ability to shatter our view of the world, moreover, many people have experienced a complete loss of ego. Unfortunately, others have experienced hell on earth. Have you personally had any experience with these plants? Do you think they are showing us the reality of our mind, or instead merely creating delusions like those suffered by schizophrenia?Peace,
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Peace peace, ?
I'd advise you against trying narcotics... Why would you want to be in an altered mind state? To escape everyday life and reality? That's not the way out if that's what you're looking for.
I know that in the past people used hallucinogens to attain some kind of 'spiritual trance' shamans, some monks, witch doctors use them.
If there is any 'reality of mind' experienced in drug-induced trances, I'd say they are just products of the brain circuitry thrown off track by chemicals. They're not some kind of hidden spiritual state or anything, just cerebral confusion.
But I might be too materialist in my outlook; I know some people need to get 'high', get out of reality to satisfy thir so-called spiritual needs. I might be unsympathetic to their needs just because I myself rarely feel that need.
Anyway, don't start.
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Peace
If there is any 'reality of mind' experienced in drug-induced trances, I'd say they are just products of the brain circuitry thrown off track by chemicals. They're not some kind of hidden spiritual state or anything, just cerebral confusion.
Its true the strate of your mind becomes altered, but this can allow people to see things from a different perspective. Some of the greatest modern songs have been created through altered mental states. And some of the worst!
I'd advise you against trying narcotics...
Well I'd be very careful with psychadelics, you have to know what to expect and to be prepared otherwise things will go terribly wrong.
I think its a mistake to depend on any drugs your body doesn't produce, but the occassional meaningful use can be helpful. I've seen some people end up as zombies ?
I intend to try some psilocybin mushrooms in the near future, but the likelyhood of this happening has decreased as there's talk of them being made Illegal in the UK (
Still, I'll make a post if I do.
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Peace be upon you Andya,
I appreciate your concern, and I understand. However, I'm not trying to escape every day life at all, I'm trying to understand both it and this reality. I think of these plants as tools, not weapons.
If there is any 'reality of mind' experienced in drug-induced trances, I'd say they are just products of the brain circuitry thrown off track by chemicals. They're not some kind of hidden spiritual state or anything, just cerebral confusion.
Perhaps... but that's your opinion, and I respect it. My opinion, is that they produce different states of consciousness, and display the reality of our minds. I guess I look at them as 'Waking Dreams' (I've read that term before), where we delve into our subconscious.
But I might be too materialist in my outlook; I know some people need to get 'high', get out of reality to satisfy thir so-called spiritual needs. I might be unsympathetic to their needs just because I myself rarely feel that need
Once again, I wouldnt be doing it for the feeling, I'd be doing it for the understanding that I believe it brings. As I said, I am going to try things like meditation first, before trying any plants.
I'm actually quite scared to tell you the truth about ever trying things like mushrooms, because in reality its very easy to have the worst feeling in your entire life. One of my friends did it, and I remember him being terrified. He was unfortunately, doing it because he thought it would bring him a good feeling, a high. But, he hasn't done it again since.
Peace
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Peace be upon you Buzzor,
You're right, you have to be very careful when using entheogens. Also, what you said about seeing people end up as zombies, is definitely something that can happen; we humans can become slaves to anything. I think you have to approach these plants with the right mindset, that you are using them to gain a greater understanding, not to get a 'high'. They definitely are not toys. Anyway, if you do end up trying them, let me know how your experience went.Peace
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Salams Peace
I agree with you in that our experiences with natural drugs can be limited when we harbour fear, or when we have to confront psychological issues that we are not yet ready to confront.
My words were not as clear as they should have being. I intented to convey that when we harbour fear often drugs break down the barrier for a few suttle moments. As we remove our fear's we have the awareness to experience the depths within without an outter substance.
However, I'm not too sure that any drug can bring on any experience, for instance, alcohol doesn't really bring you any new insight into your mind or the world, rather, it dulls your mind.
Thats a great point which I overlooked.
I do feel that we make drugs 'neccessarry' when we have fear, when we remove or face our fears we are able to achieve a state that we thought we could only through drugs, without the aftermath of hangovers.
My interest has been kindled though, with regards to entheogen's, as they seem to bring about life changing, spiritual experiences.
I think it is best to look at what goes on during the use of these particular drugs. For example I presume that when one takes these drugs they would give up the shackles of a limited idea that has yoked their freedom like a noose upon one's neck, that is to say that they have given up certain laws that they were to fearful to when they were not on a substance.
It is far more liberating to save the body and experience this 'high' by doing what brings you joy regardless of what religion, scripture and others tell you.
When I do my art I feel as though I am above my body often, as though I am liberated and just flowing like rivers, when you remove judgements from your actions you will be able to soar and touch the sky (and your heart) without having to destroy your body.
Unfortunately, I myself have not tried any of these drugs (aside from cannabis), and I'd like to gain more knowledge before I choose to do so.
That is a greater way to go about than others, if you are curious and have done the research I would not tell you not to try it, through experience we learn. Do take note on the effects and see if this is something you would like to put your body through or not each time.
What I find fascinating, is that these plants have the ability to shatter our view of the world, moreover, many people have experienced a complete loss of ego.
Bingo, there's your key. Loss of ego can be achieved without drugs.
Unfortunately, others have experienced hell on earth.
It reminds me of what I read about meditation. When people confront their selves they will often face the satan of their self first before they are able to delve deeper, it is like digging for treasure.
Have you personally had any experience with these plants?
Only a few times. I can recall several years ago back in grade 8 when my best friend at the time became hooked on drugs, I was depressed to see him in such a state so I only try'd it with him one time to try and spend time with him and I didn't feel any different honestly, just sad to see what he was doing to himself. I haven't seen him for a long time but around last year I passed by the old neighbourhood and he hadn't changed from what I'd heared, no spiritual awaking that one is suppoused to experience.
Do you think they are showing us the reality of our mind, or instead merely creating delusions like those suffered by schizophrenia?
I think 'delusion's' from the mind are the same as the reality of the mind, why would they be any different ?
peace,
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Peace be upon you.
You don't need me or anyone else telling you not to use these chemicals, but I would strongly recommend against it. There has not been enough research into their long term effects for anything to be said, apart from subjective reports from users, and biopsies etc.
Can I ask - what is it that you are REALLY looking for?
I practice meditation on a regular basis and I would say that there are techniques that you can learn which can induce altered states of perception. This I say from experience. The internal journey, remembering yourself is a difficult one and should ideally be guided when attempted the first few times.
Might sound strange, have you seen The Empire Strikes Back? When you enter your 'cave' remember you will only find inside what you take with you. When you realise your interconnectedness with everything else ("we're made of stars") your mind will open - but it can be real scary. Anyhow, I digress as usual. Stay away from drugs, if you would like some techniques, I can help you.
May Allah help us all in our journey and guide us to the straightest way.
peace out
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I agree with Darcus here.
One of the main understanding I get from learning Islam is that we should hold on to our consciousness at all times, and avoid any kind of activity that can make us lose control of our consciousness (drinking alcohol, etc.). That's why I do not feel that I should try consciousness-altering substances, magic mushrooms included.
I don't think people need to get high if they want to reach 'enlightenment' or want to discover 'reality of our minds'. I've already stated that those visions are just cerebral confusion, so IMHO they do not mean anything but confusion.
We are given consciousness and reason, so why should we get away from it?
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I don't think people need to get high if they want to reach 'enlightenment' or want to discover 'reality of our minds'. I've already stated that those visions are just cerebral confusion, so IMHO they do not mean anything but confusion.
Oh yeah?
How did you think Muhammad had his revealations? Did he reach up to the highest heavens for the revelations? I dont think so. Revelation is an event that happens in each indviduals souls and this revelations occurs in a meditative-trance.We are given consciousness and reason, so why should we get away from it?
In meditation you don't get away from consciousness, you expand your conciousness.
Pschodylic drugs like magic mushrooms removes the filter of the mind allowing you to experience reality with intensity. Meditation expands your consciouness to include whole reality.
Regards,
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Oh yeah?
How did you think Muhammad had his revealations? Did he reach up to the highest heavens for the revelations? I dont think so. Revelation is an event that happens in each indviduals souls and this revelations occurs in a meditative-trance.The thing is, I don't plan to receive revelations myself. I already have the Qur'an as a guide and God's verses nature that I can study while fully conscious. Therefore I do not need to get high for enlightenment.
In meditation you don't get away from consciousness, you expand your conciousness.
Pschodylic drugs like magic mushrooms removes the filter of the mind allowing you to experience reality with intensity. Meditation expands your consciouness to include whole reality.
See materialistic explanation, above. That 'intense reality' is just neural confusion. I know that some people want to experience some kind of 'higher reality' but AFAIK reality is here, and it can be experienced while sober. You don't need to escape from reality to experience reality.
Is normal consciousness that boring?
And remember kids, say no to drugs wink
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The thing is, I don't plan to receive revelations myself.
Why are you scared of the actual Truth?
In meditation you don't get away from consciousness, you expand your conciousness.
Pschodylic drugs like magic mushrooms removes the filter of the mind allowing you to experience reality with intensity. Meditation expands your consciouness to include whole reality.
See materialistic explanation, above. That 'intense reality' is just neural confusion. I know that some people want to experience some kind of 'higher reality' but AFAIK reality is here, and it can be experienced while sober. You don't need to escape from reality to experience reality.
See my explanation above ragarding drugs induced exeperience of Reality as oppose to meditation where you expand your consciouness to include all reality so that you can glimse something of that Unity that you call God.
Is normal consciousness that boring?
No talking to you is really boring!
Just kidding -)There is more to do with our "normal" consciousness, Andya.
And remember kids, say no to drugs wink
And listen kids don't be prudes. Study it yourself and then make your own mind upon it (And I am NOT suggesting you take drugs!!! -)
Drugs is bad!)Regards,
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The thing is, I don't plan to receive revelations myself.
Why are you scared of the actual Truth?
Uh? Why do you ask me that? I'm already satisfied with the Qur'an and nature. Need I ask for more?
I'm not afraid. I'm just not interested--I'm happy with the ones I already have, and I plan to spend my lifetime around those two. I don't know why you want more but as I told peace before, I don't.
In meditation you don't get away from consciousness, you expand your conciousness.
Pschodylic drugs like magic mushrooms removes the filter of the mind allowing you to experience reality with intensity. Meditation expands your consciouness to include whole reality.
See materialistic explanation, above. That 'intense reality' is just neural confusion. I know that some people want to experience some kind of 'higher reality' but AFAIK reality is here, and it can be experienced while sober. You don't need to escape from reality to experience reality.
See my explanation above ragarding drugs induced exeperience of Reality as oppose to meditation where you expand your consciouness to include all reality so that you can glimse something of that Unity that you call God.
I don't mean to conflate the two. Peace was asking whether drug-induced highs can give the same 'spiritual' sensations as meditation. I said that's unlikely.
That said, I myself don't feel that much need for spiritual sensations. I'm content with my circumstances. If you ask me, discussions and study are more fulfilling in spiritual terms than meditation.
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Uh? Why do you ask me that? I'm already satisfied with the Qur'an and nature. Need I ask for more?
Sorry my misunderstanding of the original question -(
You meant drug induced spiritual high as opposed to meditative enlightenment...I don't mean to conflate the two. Peace was asking whether drug-induced highs can give the same 'spiritual' sensations as meditation. I said that's unlikely.
That is correct.
That said, I myself don't feel that much need for spiritual sensations. I'm content with my circumstances. If you ask me, discussions and study are more fulfilling in spiritual terms than meditation.
Study is form of meditation... -)
Regards,
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Peace all,
444 O you who believe, do not come near the contact-method while you are drunk, until you know what you are saying.
"sukara" is an intoxicated/bewildered/confused state due to any intoxicant/drug which causes a hinderance in understanding. Here Allah clearly advises us not to get into that state while upholding the process of oration/meditation/establishing connection or contact/turning towards Allah. So clearly we are being advised not to do drugs for enlightenment. -
Peace all,
what about the until you know what you are saying. part?
It means do not uphold the salat while you are in a confused state of mind and do not know what you are saying. In other words wait until the intoxicant has cleared out of your system and is not intoxicating you anymore.
One of the bad parts of intoxicants is as above, i.e. it prevents you from the remembrance of Allah. Some of the other bad parts are drunken driving, domestic violence and abuse (strife and enmity), helping in spreading STD's due to disinhibited behaviour, fetal congenital illnesses, addiction and wastage of money on drugs etc.
The good part is the medicinal use of intoxicants like using alcohol as antiseptic, mouth wash, base in cold medicines, and using narcotics as analgesics or pain killers when medically justifiable, and use of marijuana in stimulating appetite in cancer or AIDS patients, and in glaucoma. Another good use may be the use of wine for adding flavor to food while cooking.
what about the some good part? .. why doesn't anyone like to talk about the some good, but always the bad?
Please see above !! )
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Salaamun alaikum Muhammad,
different drugs etc.. effect each individual differently... one might use these mushrooms and have nothing but a confusing state of being etc... and nother might open a path way to better understanding as the quote above i posted from bill hicks etc...
I agree that different drugs effect each individual differently. One might get confused and another may not. But then it is also dose dependent, one might not be confused at a certain dose but at a higher dose one can get confused. It has something to do with how much tolerance one has to a certain intoxicant.
However I am not aware of any state of mind that is altered or confused AND also having better understanding of truth or reality. If it does not confuse you then you are at your baseline state of mind and it does not make any difference if you did a drug or not for the purpose of having better understanding of the truth. But if it does alter your state of mind and confuse you then you are advised by Allah not to come near salat which is the process of bettering our understanding by turning towards and establishing contact with Allah.
my personal suggestion.. is if one wishes to engage in such a journey... it's best to find a trusted guide
I agree, and the only trusted guide is Allah !
Regards,
Tanveer
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Peace Muhammad,
a side effect of MDMA can be a form of compassion and/or empathy .. compassion is a form of higher learning and a truth... even though the person is effected by a drug at that particulare time... the subject may take this understanding and use it through out his/her lifetime... esp. if the subject had never known such a state of being could exsist (lack of experience)... through this personal experience... it can become an eye opener... leading to other forms of truth... of course depending on the individual... or persons of understanding as One would say
MDMA can have some positive side effects including the one you mentioned but has a lot of negative side effects which outweigh the benefits and can produce more harm in the society in general. Meditation or salat and reading The Qur'aan and implementing it in our lives can also make us compassionate and empathic without any negative side effects and therefore would be my method of choice )
Some of the side effects of MDMA are as follows
EFFECTS LIST #
POSITIVE
extreme mood lift
increased willingness to communicate
increase in energy (stimulation)
ego softening
feelings of comfort, belonging, and closeness to others
feelings of love and empathy
forgiveness
increased awareness & appreciation of music
increased awareness of senses. (eating, drinking, smell)
profound life-changing spiritual experiences
neurotically based fear dissolution
sensations bright and intense
urge to hug and kiss peopleNEGATIVE
(negative side effects increase with higher doses and frequent use)appetite loss
visual distortion
rapid, involuntary eye jiggling (nystagmus)
mild visual hallucinations (uncommon)
moderately increased heart rate and blood pressure (increases with dose)
restlessness, nervousness, shivering
change in body temperature regulation
strong desire to do or want more when coming down
inappropriate and/or unintended emotional bonding
tendency to say things you might feel uncomfortable about later
mild to extreme jaw clenching (trisma), tongue and cheek chewing, and teeth grinding (bruxia)
difficulty concentrating & problems with activities requiring linear focus
short-term memory scramble or loss & confusion
muscle tension
erectile disfunction and difficulty reaching orgasm
increase in body temperature, hyperthermia, dehydration (drink water)
hyponatremia (don't drink too much water)
nausea and vomiting
headaches, dizziness, loss of balance, and vertigo
post-trip Crash - unpleasantly harsh comedown from the peak effect
hangover the next day, lasting days to weeks
mild depression and fatigue for up to a week
severe depression and/or fatigue (uncommon)
possible strong urge to repeat the experience, though not physically addictive
possible psychological crisis requiring hospitalization (psychotic episodes, severe panic attacks, etc) (rare)
possible liver toxicity (rare)
possible neurotoxicity (controversial)
small risk of death. Approximately 2 per 100,000 users have extreme negative reactions resulting in death. (rare)As you can see, the list of benefits is smaller than list of harms. Why use a substance for compassion and empathy while exposing oneself to all the possible harmful effects ?
For further details on MDMA see the following links
http//www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/ecstasy.html
http//www.mdma.net/
http//www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/mdma/
http//www.ecstasy.org/
http//www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/atod/od_ecstasy.htmFollowing is a nice link about psilocybin mushrooms
http//www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/atod/od_psilocybin.htm
what do you mean by baseline state of mind?
It is the state of mind not influenced by any intoxicant. Small doses of intoxicants, for example caffeine or even small doses of alcohol may not alter the baseline state of mind and not cause any confusion.