someone was arguing with me from here
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Salaamun alaikum,
she said you all would "rip me to peices", and my only crime was that im a sunni....?
Al-quraan forbids this kind of oppressive behaviour and you should tell her that.
why are u lot so against the hadith? some are weak, some are strong, if the strong ones arent against whats in the quran and shariah, then why should we not follow it?
Who decides which is 'strong' or 'weak'? That is probably the more the issue than actual adherence to hadith. I actually find hadith a source of wisdom like Dao Deh Ching and The Art of War. Good stuff but nothing like al-quraan.
if it helps us get closer to Allah then why not? We use prayer beads, an innovation made by christians, but it helps us with our dhikr so we're allowed to use it...of course the Quran is first, and some sunnis exhault prophet muhammad pbuh to a status he shouldnt be,
'the quran is first' in sunnism (in my experience in polemics with sunnis at least) is merely a slogan. The quran allows for religious freedom, sunnism does not. The quran enjoins modest dressing, sunnism mandates the headscarf. The quran prescribes jiyzah as a recompense for transgression, in sunnism , the criteria is race.
Im very sorry to say, in my opinion, sunnism is a whole other religion than the one prescribed in al-quraan.
As for exalting Muhammad ibn Abdullah, the only reason why this seems justifiable is due to the subjective nature of hadith 'science'. If you read al-quraan using its own internal method, exalting Muhammad becomes impossible.
May I also ask, what is the objective of the prayer-bead dhikr ?
hope that wasnt jumping at your throat there. Constructive discussion can sometimes feel like that.
thanks and peace.
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prayer beads helps you keep count, so u dont need to...letting more concentration be on the dhikr.
you talking down sunnism is like talking to an israeli about giving their land back to the palestinians....rather it is more fitting if u show me the proper way through righteous actions and tell me what u believe in, rather than bashing what i believe in
true we mandate the hijab, only in accordance with the quran and hadith, and shariah. but even then, we arent to prosecute those who dont wear it, afterall we allow chrisitan communities to practice their faith in our lands, and they believe they dont need to wear it. I believe the hijab is a level of modesty that one must attain, forcing it renders it useless.
i agree with you, the hadith is nothing compared to the quran, but it is supposed to help us out with our every day lives, as a source of guidance to help us follow the quran more closely....i myself dont agree with just anhyone looking at the hadith and getting anything from it, as they are not going about the right procedure. Which is why its a science, because there is a procedure and certain things one must know before bringing their own conclusions from hadith. for example, one must be knowledgable in arabic, etc etc. there are many contradicitons in hadith due to time, what was happening at the time, what the situation was...so it is very hard i agree to attain hadith...but lessons are nonetheless given to us, only to make stronger the words of the quran in minds of a human.
im not saying its hard to follow the quran, well it is, but its not impossible. The prophet pbuh was a walking quran, a manifestation of the quran on this earth, i think most of us agree. It is much easier for us to understand a human than to understand Allah, and there are somethings we are just restricted from understanding about Allah. How many of us after hearing a verse from Allah that commands us to keep on the right path would start looking down to the place of prostration during prayers? Prophet muhammad pbuh did, and after the verses that sunnis use to legitimize the hijab, the prophets pbuh wives wore veils, and in public without a guardian of some sort, they even covered their faces. keep in mind that its the desert and it might get sandy, which can be a reason for the face scarf the prophet's wives wore. See, right there is a reason a non-knowledagble person should avoid taking their own conclusions from hadith....which one might say renders them useless, but not if we build off of what the previous sheikhs and knowledgable ppl say etc...its a very hard thing, but they should not be discredited
-my thoughts are all over the place lol, asalamualaikum
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someone started talking to me...well n ot talking, she just jumped at my throat. and she started arguing with arguments she already made up without me even sayhing anything...then she told me she came from this site and referred me to it...and i quote, she said you all would "rip me to peices", and my only crime was that im a sunni....?
Hello and Welcome to this forum -)
I for one do not have any problem with you if you are suni or follow hadiths. I have no problem with other people's beliefs -)
As far as I know this is a FREE MINDS forum. People of all faiths are invited to discuss God and Religion. I believe that that people here are a diverse bunch and that we fly the "Banner of God" (not that God needs banners to be flown -) or anything!)
Many people here have rejected all hadiths and sunnah. I for one have grown out of them at an early age and therefore they don't have any power over me and they will never will. Even Scripture I have come to see as A TRUTH and not the WHOLE truth, so even Scripture has no power over me. The only thing that has power over is my Creator, God. That is why I will not jump at your throat and tell you that you follow fake Islam! I believe that people who reject hadiths and Sunnah, as opposed to outgrowing them with understanding, will always have this latent urge to come and jump at the throats of people like you. And I think this is wrong.
Anyway you are welcome here and to discuss anything you like....
Regards,
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oo forgot the strong and weak bit.......if u like, i can show u the proper procedure to judging a hadith, i can start off here, but it gets long and complicated and is rather difficult to bring ur own conclusion (as i said before)
1st it cannot contradict the quran, if one thinks it does, they must find another conclusion of the hadith that doesnt contradict, and if they cant, then they should throw out the hadith because it isnt valid
then u go into chains of transmission
there are some chains that just dont make sense (a person living in a diff time period or a different area hearing a hadith from another person), it is really difficult to accept these hadith, however if it keeps coming up in othe hadith and in other instances of people not related to this particular person, then theres a chance it maybe sahih so dont throw it out, but there is a chance it might not be a solid sound hadithit goes on and on, i dont want to bore u
asalamualaikum -
thanx lote tree!
asalamualaikum -
Peace be with you tharilist786,
And welcome to the forum. You're welcome to share your thoughts, discuss and debate any subject, within reason and within the forum rules.
I would highly recommend checking out the main website - www.free-minds.org - that would make it easier for you to know at least the basics of what the main subject is all about. That's a little better than - someone told me that another person said that you would rip me apart. roll
Oh, and just one thing, if you wish to discuss/debate a certain subject, please try and post it in the specific section.
Again, peace and welcome to free minds forum
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well she seemed pretty certain u would rip me apart, so i decided to check it out, but all i see here are a bunch of unaccepting people who pretend to tolerate others, and are more willing to tolerate christians and jews than muslims....mind who u take as auliya....may allah help you all find the truth...asalamualaikum moderators may delete me from the user list now
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well she seemed pretty certain u would rip me apart, so i decided to check it out, but all i see here are a bunch of unaccepting people who pretend to tolerate others, and are more willing to tolerate christians and jews than muslims....mind who u take as auliya....may allah help you all find the truth...asalamualaikum moderators may delete me from the user list now
emotions and prejudices, emotions and prejudices, oh how i wish we could all overcome our emotions and prejudices, may The God guide those who keep an open mind
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... but all i see here are a bunch of unaccepting people who pretend to tolerate others...
There was no "pretension" of tolerance here and definately not from me. The tolerance was genuine. Stick around and perhaps you will see this tolerance perhaps... you got nothing to lose -)
But anyway all the best to you...
Regards,
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Peace,
well she seemed pretty certain u would rip me apart, so i decided to check it out
... but all i see here are a bunch of unaccepting people who pretend to tolerate others...
what did you come for tharilist786? It seemed as though you didn't expect a welcome, so much so you fooled yourself into thinking there was some pretense apparent.
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well she seemed pretty certain u would rip me apart, so i decided to check it out, but all i see here are a bunch of unaccepting people who pretend to tolerate others
So quick to judge...? I guess you were hoping to be ripped apart? hmm...moderators may delete me from the user list now
Mind was made up before we got here.TTFN, and remember, you're always welcome to have fruitful discussions inshaAllah.
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Salaamun alaikum,
prayer beads helps you keep count, so u dont need to...letting more concentration be on the dhikr.
Why do u need to keep count? If you analyse the concept 'dhikr' from a Quranic point of view, there's no such thing as counting. Dhikr simply keeps one reminded, that's all.
you talking down sunnism is like talking to an israeli about giving their land back to the palestinians....rather it is more fitting if u show me the proper way through righteous actions and tell me what u believe in, rather than bashing what i believe in
Talking it down? I was simply stating my opinion of sunnism. How is that 'bashing' ?
true we mandate the hijab, only in accordance with the quran and hadith, and shariah.
so the Quran isn't enough ? Allah says its the only ahkaam/laws we'll need (6/114) so adding to it is kinda 'in your face' to Allah, isnt it?
but even then, we arent to prosecute those who dont wear it,
You need to speak to some Malaysian muslims. They sometimes get ostracised for not wearing hijab. I've witnessed this myself.
afterall we allow chrisitan communities to practice their faith in our lands, and they believe they dont need to wear it. I believe the hijab is a level of modesty that one must attain, forcing it renders it useless
Pakistani Christians have been known to have thier churches burnt and Malaysian christians can't preach to Muslims. So much for freedom.
i agree with you, the hadith is nothing compared to the quran, but it is supposed to help us out with our every day lives, as a source of guidance to help us follow the quran more closely....
Would you mind giving me an example of 'following the quran more closely' ? Is is it when the Quran gives freedom of religion and hadith mandates that you murder apostates. That's not following 'more closely', surely?
i myself dont agree with just anhyone looking at the hadith and getting anything from it, as they are not going about the right procedure. Which is why its a science, because there is a procedure and certain things one must know before bringing their own conclusions from hadith. for example, one must be knowledgable in arabic, etc etc. there are many contradicitons in hadith due to time, what was happening at the time, what the situation was...so it is very hard i agree to attain hadith...but lessons are nonetheless given to us, only to make stronger the words of the quran in minds of a human.
Can you please tell me where you derived this 'science' ? If this is indeed a 'science', why is it there's no mutawatir collection (a collection agreed upon by all muslims)?
im not saying its hard to follow the quran, well it is, but its not impossible. The prophet pbuh was a walking quran, a manifestation of the quran on this earth, i think most of us agree. It is much easier for us to understand a human than to understand Allah,
Right, lets track down your reasoning for a minute
it's hard to follow the Quran, because its hard for us to understand Allah.
Its easier to follow hadith because prophet was a human and we're humans.Funnily, the Quran contains examples of HUMANS doing stuff. This is what we're to follow. the Prophet himself was commanded not to follow anything except the Quran (10/15). So no, im afraid your reasoning breaks down here.
oo forgot the strong and weak bit.......if u like, i can show u the proper procedure to judging a hadith, i can start off here, but it gets long and complicated and is rather difficult to bring ur own conclusion (as i said before)
Not just difficult but impossible. No 2 sunni scholars have ever agreed on which hadith are authentic. Bukhari himself has been reevaluated (ask the salafis)
1st it cannot contradict the quran, if one thinks it does, they must find another conclusion of the hadith that doesnt contradict, and if they cant, then they should throw out the hadith because it isnt valid
How is then that Bukhari included hadith that spoke about monkeys stoning an adulterous monkey (hadith 518 and that this was used to form the sharia law?
then u go into chains of transmission
there are some chains that just dont make sense (a person living in a diff time period or a different area hearing a hadith from another person), it is really difficult to accept these hadith, however if it keeps coming up in othe hadith and in other instances of people not related to this particular person, then theres a chance it maybe sahih so dont throw it out, but there is a chance it might not be a solid sound hadithChain ? don't you mean names ? Bukhari lived after any of these guys. He never met them and all it took was the STORIES of them. So lets not think he relied on primary sources.
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PEACE, RILIST 786,
if someone knows the proper etiquette in dealing with islamic discussions feel free to respond, but im warning you right now, if u jump at my throat dont even bother responding...asalamualaikum
Easy, tiger, no one is going to jump at your throat.
Read this
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=47387#47387
http//www.muslimwakeup.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1202&highlight=
Lengthy, but it will give you an idea of where some of us, and probably your woman friend, are coming from.
Peace.
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...but there are always bad apples, even on this site.....as in a different section i found a person saying "Lets go to war" talking about pakistani muslims, as if we arent muslim
I wonder if tharilist has been reading albion's newsposts...
