making sense of heaven/hell
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Strange, is it not? That of the myriads who...
Before us pass'd the door of Darkness through,
Not one returns to tell us of the Road,
Which to discover we must travel too.Sytalls,
I did not know you were a Omar Khayyam reader?
Shakespeare would come to echo these lines in Hamlet!Regards,
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Peace all.
D Lote-Tree, I think pretty much everybody I knew was "into" Omar Khayyam in the seventies. My first introduction was when a guy recited the "a jug of wine, a loaf of bread, and thou...beside me singing in the wilderness" line. A good friend of mine still keeps The Rubaiyat on her bedside table so that she can read a passage or two each night before she goes to sleep.
Thanks for the link, Tay. ) Living in the country is peaceful, but not having cable is a drawback out here. We also don't have high-speed internet access, so I'll have to forward your link to a friend's house in the city and watch it there. After reading the information on the link, I did and search and found out I could also get a copy through Netflix.
Something else you may be interested in is the movie Zenje mentioned on another thread, "What the BLEEP Do We Know." While it doesn't refer to the holographic theory specifically, the information relates to this in some ways--the idea behind it anyway. There's lots of good information about quantum physics. Netflix had a copy of the film, and I imagine some other video stores would, as well.
Thanks to Zenje for that recommendation, by the way. I just watched the film yesterday. And thanks to idolfree for opening up this discussion.
In the film, there were a couple of things I wasn't entirely sure were correct, but that is very likely my lack of knowledge rather than that of the interview subjects. Or maybe it was the way the material was integrated with other topics, possibly taking some piece of information out of a context I was familiar with. Overall, I thought the information covered much of what I learned in school and from later reading.
I was laughing when the film got to the point about electromagnetic forces and how we don't really touch anything, because I'd just mentioned that to you in my post--as the time when my perceptions began to get altered. But the idea is presented more clearly than I think I presented it to you, especially since some special effects are added to help illustrate things.
There will likely be questions you have that I can't answer, but I should be able to find someone to ask or find suitable reference material...so we can both learn together.
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Peace all.
Lote-Tree, I think pretty much everybody I knew was "into" Omar Khayyam in the seventies. My first introduction was when a guy recited the "a jug of wine, a loaf of bread, and thou...beside me singing in the wilderness" line. A good friend of mine still keeps The Rubaiyat on her bedside table so that she can read a passage or two each night before she goes to sleep.
Good chap -)
I think we all have the spirit of Omar Khayyam inside of us The Yearning for both of an Earthly and a Spiritual freedom?
What say you?The was a Door to which I found no Key;
There was a Veil past which I could not see
Some little talk awhile of Me and Thee
There seemed - and then no more of Thee and Me.Perhaps we should all cultivate an attidue of Omar Khayyam?
What say you?Regards,
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Peace Tay,
Thanks for the wonderful link. I just finished watching the 3 hour Nova program about "the elegant universe". The concepts are mind boggling and exciting. Maybe Heaven and Hell exist in the other dimensions or parallel universes and maybe we will be able to communicate with their inhabitants using gravitons !! Time travel could be possible based on tachyons predicted by string theory.
Maybe that is how The God is sustaining the whole universe. His word vibrating the strings of energy, manifesting and orchestrating the whole universe.
We need to continue to ponder on the signs and meditate to get all the answers !! hmm trance
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Peace Sytalls,
Yes, "What the Bleep Do We Know" was a very good program for painting the picture of quantum physics. I also enjoyed the fact that these scientists are opening their minds to what would have been considered shady ideas. Even the mention of God in the program surprised me. I think things are getting better.
I would say, however, that "The Holographic Universe" is required reading for anyone interested in the subject. Michael Talbot does a wonderful job of breaking down complex concepts into understandable terms. Further, he touches on so many aspects of the human condition it is quite amazing to look back on when the book is complete. I mean, from near-death experiences, to the UFO phenomenon, to reincarnation, to psychic energy, he's found leaders in theses fields who have accepted the Holographic Theory as a possibility. And he ties these "mystical" realms of thought to hard science and the outcome is almost undeniable.
I know it's much too early for me to draw conclusions, but thus far, I would say that String Theory would probably be the 'nuts and bolts' of the Holographic Theory. At face value, I think they would partner nicely.
Another angle which I have not pursued yet despite my cousin's begging, is vibrational wellness and accoustics in general. There is much to be said about the power of sound. Heck, the Israelis are using accoustic canons as a non-lethal weapon to address crowd control. They've found the right frequency and the means to channel this frequency in a focused beam to shut down the person's ability to function. I think these 3 concepts may paint a a nice picture of reality.
I've maintained the Gibreel is the 'frequency' of revelation, the "voice of God", if you will, and we are all capable of tuning ourselves to this frequency, this wordless, 'truth' that so many have expereienced.
It is a very exciting time, perhaps equally as exciting as it is frightening.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tanveer,
Thanks for the wonderful link.
You are quite welcome. The link was referred to me by David in the Movie Thread.
Maybe that is how The God is sustaining the whole universe. His word vibrating the strings of energy, manifesting and orchestrating the whole universe
That is certainly plausible. Deep down, I think science is always looking for God despite the "lack of proof". I mean, look how many people have faith in a mathematical equation that presumes the existence of something so small, it can never be tested nor witnessed, and yet, this is the glue that binds the heavens. Theories forming on top of theories. I don't think scientists realize how imaginative they are. It is wonderful to see.
We need to continue to ponder on the signs and meditate to get all the answers !!
Absolutely brother. Let no door remain closed. The more we open ourselves up, the more truth pours in.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Tay,
Great site!!! Thank you for sharing, just what I needed.
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Good chap -)
I think we all have the spirit of Omar Khayyam inside of us The Yearning for both of an Earthly and a Spiritual freedom?
What say you?The was a Door to which I found no Key;
There was a Veil past which I could not see
Some little talk awhile of Me and Thee
There seemed - and then no more of Thee and Me.Perhaps we should all cultivate an attidue of Omar Khayyam?
What say you?Regards,
There is certainly something to be said for finding unity. D I almost chose that passage instead of the other one, mainly because I very much like the sentiment expressed.
And not to mess up any warm fuzzy erasures of separation lines...but I don't quite pass the physical appearance test for "chap." shock lol
Peace.
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Peace Tay
Ah, so you've already been reading up on holographic theory, from a combined physical/metaphysical side, I take it?
I did find the article in Physics World I mentioned, if you're interested in some of the hard core stuff. This is a string theory article that brings in the holographic theory idea. Here's the link, which should take you to the second page of the article. You'll need to go down the page a little ways to "Duality."
http//physicsweb.org/articles/world/16/11/8/2
It could be that string theory is the nuts and bolts of holographic theory...or possibly vice versa. Right now, it is indeed exciting to be viewing the edge of that new frontier.
Since you've come at this from the metaphysical side, you have probably seen David Bohm's name mentioned. (At least, I hope so!) He was a theoretical physicist who was an outstanding contributor to quantum mechanics. But Bohm did a lot of work on holographic theory in the last years of his life, apparently since he was as uneasy as most physicsts are about all the things left unexplained by quantum mechanics. It works; but people just don't know why it works. Bohm was also very much into the spiritual aspects and connections of consciousness with science.
As far as scientists and God, I think there's a great misconception about physicsts. Biologists seem to be the ones who, as a whole, have been more interested in what they can see and touch, instead of the spiritual side of life.
Physicists have to deal with too many strange things not to have respect for a higher power of some sort. I would say that more people amongst my professors and classmates believed in God than didn't. Some of them were, in fact, quite spiritual. And some were both spiritual and religious. One of my professors was heavily into a consciousness-raising group. He even took me to one of their meetings and invited me to join the group. I would have liked to...only problem was that studying for his class and lab took up so much time, I couldn't really get to the meetings every week.
I'm very interested in vibrational wellness, also! Sort of fits with string theory, doesn't it? There are some places that are taking advantage of people in this area right now, trying to make a fast buck. so if you find good reliable information, please let me know.
That was beautiful was you said about Gibreel.
For my two main salat times, I make sure that I recite or listen to the chosen suras in Arabic. If I'm only listening, then I keep my hand on the speakers, so that I am in contact with their vibrations as well as the vibration of the sound waves in the air. Certainly, the Quran is arranged in very specific ways, including the letters at the beginning of some suras, so I've often wondered how much this had to do with vibrational energy.
I mentioned the Walls of Jericho being brought down by resonant frequencies on another thread. But the Isarelis had to rely on God's guidance back in those days. Apparently, they've gotten more skilled at harnessing the power of sound.
Oh, and what about hado and the water thing?!! Which I'm glad got covered in the BLEEP movie. I've been talking to my plants and trees for years. Now, I go out to my well and talk to my water. And my bottled water when I bring it home from the store.
So, as I say to my plants and water...
...peace and love and blessings.
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Peace Sytalls,
Ah, so you've already been reading up on holographic theory...
Yes. Indeed for me, it is far more interesting and, frankly, comprehendible, to read the works of folks who understand these intense science yet manage to explain them in a simple yet vivid manner. I think Michael Talbot is a great example of this.
...from a combined physical/metaphysical side, I take it?
Absolutely. I was once very spiritual, to a fault, where I would accept concepts whether or not they made any real sense. Then I evolved into a logical thinker, to a fault, where everything I accepted had to make sense. Now I feel the best path is in the middle. In these shoes, concepts still have to make sense, just not necessarily in a logical progression via the way we view logic today. Hope that makes sense pray
I did find the article in Physics World I mentioned, if you're interested in some of the hard core stuff. This is a string theory article that brings in the holographic theory idea. Here's the link, which should take you to the second page of the article. You'll need to go down the page a little ways to "Duality."
Thanks for the link. I gave it a glance and immediately realized I need a morning brain to grasp the content. I'll keep you posted.
It could be that string theory is the nuts and bolts of holographic theory...or possibly vice versa. Right now, it is indeed exciting to be viewing the edge of that new frontier.
I agree. It's a very exciting time. Tie this stuff in with nanotechnology and molecular electronics and zero-point energy...all I can say is the next decade or so should be very interesting.
Since you've come at this from the metaphysical side, you have probably seen David Bohm's name mentioned. (At least, I hope so!)
Yes!! Actually, the book I mentioned is built around Bohm and Pibram's research. It includes some biographical info and ties in nicely with the many concepts the Holographic theory seems to blanket.
As far as scientists and God, I think there's a great misconception about physicsts. Biologists seem to be the ones who, as a whole, have been more interested in what they can see and touch, instead of the spiritual side of life.
Physicists have to deal with too many strange things not to have respect for a higher power of some sort. I would say that more people amongst my professors and classmates believed in God than didn't. Some of them were, in fact, quite spiritual. And some were both spiritual and religious.
That makes perfect sense. My apologies for generalizing. It is wonderful, imo, that an avenue of science can foster this appreciation. I think the misconception was mine. It just seems to me that the background theme in any science program or lecture or article I read is Darwinism. I mean even the nature shows I watch continue to pound this on the viewer. But I admit that my exposure to physicists has been limited and it is unfair of me to use such broad strokes.
Interestingly, one name mentioned in the book was Barbara Brennan. She was a NASA physicist born with the uncanny ability to view auras as well as other psychic abilities. Yet, she felt the standards(pressure) of the scientific community would not allow for her to share this special gift. She felt she would lose all credibility. Under the guise of clever vocabulary, she managed to teach auric viewing and healing at NYU. Her class was called "The Therapeutic Touch", since any mention of chakras and auras would have discredited her professionalism. Nevertheless, she has now left the scientific community and has opened a school in Flordia where she teaches Auric viewing and healing. It's on my list of things to do before I die. Here's the ink if you're interested...
http//www.barbarabrennan.com/flash/content/flash_intro.html
to be continued for the sake of brevity...
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Peace again Sytalls,
continuing, you stated
I'm very interested in vibrational wellness, also! Sort of fits with string theory, doesn't it? There are some places that are taking advantage of people in this area right now, trying to make a fast buck. so if you find good reliable information, please let me know.
I will email my cousin. He's a music therapist and my discussion partner. We're pretty much on the same wavelength. Anyway, he's done tons of research on the topic. I will definitely post some info when I get my hands on it.
In the meantime, I've had some experience with accoustical medicine. I did some work for a company that treated plantar fasciitis and tendinitis via a machine that would shoot sound waves at the injured area. The technology is called shockwave therapy and the way it works is this
The machine has this telescoping arm that ends in what they call a 'billow'. It looks like a very thick water balloon half-encased in plastic and attached to a robotic arm. Anyway, The billow is positioned right up against the skin and the angle shifted until the patient feels a slight discomfort from the sound waves. These resemble a knocking metronomic sound at specific intervals and can be increased in frequency and intensity. What is happening is the sound waves are actually causing micro-injuries to the effected area, alerting the patient's body to react and attempt to heal these micro-injuries. The side effect of this healing is that the tendinitis itself gets healed in the process. It's fascinating stuff, and fairly new in the US, although I believe it's been practiced in Germany for the last decade or so.
That was beautiful was you said about Gibreel.
Thank you
For my two main salat times, I make sure that I recite or listen to the chosen suras in Arabic. If I'm only listening, then I keep my hand on the speakers, so that I am in contact with their vibrations as well as the vibration of the sound waves in the air. Certainly, the Quran is arranged in very specific ways, including the letters at the beginning of some suras, so I've often wondered how much this had to do with vibrational energy.
Fascinating. My cousin insists that there is a sonic purpose to reading out loud or hearing the Qur'an being recited. I happen to agree as instinct, but with nothing further to back it up. This reminds me of a Hamza Yusuf lecture I watched back in my Sunni days. One thing he said stuck with me although I never remebered to research it. He said that "la Illaha Il Allah" is composed of healing and peaceful frequency. He tied it in to meditation and referenced some concepts which I cannot recall.
I mentioned the Walls of Jericho being brought down by resonant frequencies on another thread. But the Isarelis had to rely on God's guidance back in those days. Apparently, they've gotten more skilled at harnessing the power of sound.
Yes, and not just the Israeli's. I shudder at the thought of what the elite are keeping from the masses. There's a wonderful world of infinite possibilites out there that we're too busy to explore.
Oh, and what about hado and the water thing?!! Which I'm glad got covered in the BLEEP movie. I've been talking to my plants and trees for years. Now, I go out to my well and talk to my water. And my bottled water when I bring it home from the store.
LOL! You know, I read a small booklet when I was in grammar school about plants. These scientists hooked up electrodes to a group of plants and monitored their readings. Then, they had someone walk in the room and talk to the plants with kindness and love. The frequency of the readings changed. Next they had someone break into the room and shatter glass and trash the place. The readings went off the scale. Now here's the freaky part...They brought the first person back to the room and the person did not say a word, but the plants still reacted similarly. And when they brought the violent person back in the room, the readings went off the scale once again. I wish I knew who published the research. Sounds like a Google project.
Peace and love and blessings to you too,
Tay -
And not to mess up any warm fuzzy erasures of separation lines...but I don't quite pass the physical appearance test for "chap." shock lol
Peace."Chap-ess" then?
I thought you are a guy? There goes my theory that you could tell the gender of the person by the style of their writing!!! -(
I was doing really well with my theory on this forum but now you spoilt it all -(But no worries -) -)
Regards,
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I thought you are a guy? There goes my theory that you could tell the gender of the person by the style of their writing!!! -(
I was doing really well with my theory on this forum but now you spoilt it all -(mrgreen Sorry 'bout that, L-T! Must have been my husky writing voice. Happens during allergy system, when the pollen gets into my keyboard. wink
Because I know it couldn't have been that statement about the guy quoting the "jug of wine...and thou" line to me. hmm Or did I forget to mention that happened on a picnic?
Best regards...
...from wwwlm (woman who writes like man)
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Peace Tay.
I understand completely about going too far in the direction of spiritual things, trying to take everything in. After such efforts I think we all end up finding our own logic--something that fits our individual ways of thinking and analyzing things. yes
And the plant experiment was exactly what I was referring to when I mentione talking to my plants! It's always stayed in my mind about how the plants seemed to respond. There were other experiments, as well, which compared growth rates and general health of plants exposed to different stimuli.
The evolutionists do love to go on and on about Darwin, don't they? There are also people who like to sound "scientific" jumping on that bandwagon, especially for nature programs. They make a broad assumption, even though there are some missing links in their chains.
Physicists talk about the Big Bang, but there's always room for doubt there. It's as if it's an okay theory for the moment, but there are some things that don't quite feel entirely right. Much different than the Darwinians and their smug certainty.
As for Brennan, I have heard of her, although not very much. Thank you for the link. I look forward to checking out her website. In a professional environment, she probably would have to keep her aura reading talents hidden. But the same could be said for any professional--a bank vice president, for instance, can't really go around talking about balancing chakras any more than a physicist at NASA. shock
For people like David Bohm, he has such excellent credentials and has explored quantum mechanics and theoretical particle physics so much that he can reach out a little further into the theoretical wild lands...and get pretty much everybody to listen.
Wow! The shockwave therapy you worked on sounds fascinating! Tendonitis is so tough to treat. Interesting idea--having the body heal the micro-injuries in order to heal the main tendonitis problem. And does this therapy usually work best early on for plantar fascitis? Or does it matter? I suppose the best thing is that it would make surgery unnecessary. Or would it?
My cousin insists that there is a sonic purpose to reading out loud or hearing the Qur'an being recited. I happen to agree as instinct, but with nothing further to back it up. This reminds me of a Hamza Yusuf lecture I watched back in my Sunni days. One thing he said stuck with me although I never remebered to research it. He said that "la Illaha Il Allah" is composed of healing and peaceful frequency. He tied it in to meditation and referenced some concepts which I cannot recall.
Oh, cool...thanks for sharing that. It fits with what I was thinking, but I'd never heard anything like what you said about the Hamza Yusuf lecture. ) I still say that part of the shahada before praying, because I've always just liked the way it made me feel.
Have you ever heard Wayne Dyer's audio program, "There's a Spiritual Solution to every Problem"? He discusses vibrational wellness. Well, he discusses just about everything, since the entire program is 6 or 7 hours long. wow I got it through the audible.com subscription program. They also have some terrific hypnosis programs by...the British guy...puts me under in seconds...Glen Harrold. Although it's not the same as the hypnosis program, I just did his chakra meditation this morning. I was feeling a bit stuffed up inside.
One note here...since this thread is about heaven and hell...from what we've been saying, doesn't it seem likely that hell would be where all the greed and lust and anger went on ahead of the souls that end up there? Where they would create that sort of environment, where appetites would never be entirely satisfied? A world without peace.
Hmmm. Nothing like ending on a happy note. hmm
Okay, well, I do look forward to hearing more when you get information from your cousin. giggle It's good that you two are on the same wavelength.
And...I really like this new smiley... sunPeace, love and blessings. hug
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I thought you are a guy? There goes my theory that you could tell the gender of the person by the style of their writing!!! -(
I was doing really well with my theory on this forum but now you spoilt it all -(mrgreen Sorry 'bout that, L-T! Must have been my husky writing voice. Happens during allergy system, when the pollen gets into my keyboard. wink
Ha ha -) Good one!
But I think your liking for physics and holograhic theory perhaps made me consider you as a guy. You know physics and holography is such a man thing ! -)
Just kidding! -)Because I know it couldn't have been that statement about the guy quoting the "jug of wine...and thou" line to me. hmm Or did I forget to mention that happened on a picnic?
I should have suspected it when you mentioned that your female friend used to read Omar Khayyam before going to bed!
...from wwwlm (woman who writes like man)
It can happen to anyone you know "after a loaf of bread and a jug of wine...." -)
Sytalls - is this made up name?
Regards,
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Peace everyone,
Loteree I thought that Sytalls was a man using your theory! I began wondering whether you was a woman sytalls, the only thing that made me think you was a 'chap' was the amount of posts and the content, the women on the forum don't post as much as the men! I guess the guys here are chatterboxes!
Anyway I love physics, just finished the last synoptic paper for my physics course. cry , gonna miss my lessons, really enjoyed talking about electrons and blackholes. (
Anyway now I have a peaceful summer ahead of me D .
You all sound very 'spiritual' on this thread, as though your very interested in meditation and stuff. I think there should be a section for that, a lot of the members discuss it, there are sections on 'hadith/sunnah' and 'bit on 19', I would prefer a meditation one where we can enjoy the silence!
Nural
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Peace all.
The truth is out--I'm a woman and just as much a chatterbox as the guys around here. It pretty much depends on whether I'm writing or procrastinating. Lots of posts (or wordy posts) = stuck in writing & procrastinating. Few posts = getting work done like I'm supposed to.
Nural, there's the meditation thread Idolfree started, but it would be great to have a "spiritual" section. Although, I suppose, the entire forum is basically concerned with spiritual matters.
It can happen to anyone you know "after a loaf of bread and a jug of wine...." -)
Sytalls - is this made up name?
shock There are some inhibitions that even a jug of wine might not be able to overcome!
Yep, sytalls is the name on an email account I've had for a long time. For simplicity, I used it when I signed up here at FM.