Sabians
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Jizakallah Khair TAJ,
Not a tribe, but an Ahl. Please do send me the Arabic references. Since the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Sabi infrastructure has been virtually destroyed. Anything which might assist those of us who remain in restoring that infrastructure is of absolutely vital importance. I should explain that "Sabianism" originally comes from Nooh (SAW) so because of the age of the religion there are bound to be many deviant (Sabi
ah Mushrikoon) sects of Sabis in the world today, but from what you describe it certainly sounds like these people belong to what we call the Sabiah Hunafawhich are basically the rightly guided Sabioon whose predecessors followed Ibrim (Ibrahim SAW) out of Yazidi Arruha. The religions that descend from Sabianism include, of course islam, but also Yazdanism (out of which came the Nasaraeans), Babism, Bahai, and even Magianism to a certain extent. Yes I am a Sabi. I visit free-minds.org because I know there used to be a lot of Sabieen here up until a few years ago, (some were deluded into thinking they are muslims but want to change Islam into Sabianism instead of changing themselves into muslims, others really were converted to real islam and presumeably left sabianism behind) and I am hoping that if any still visit this board that they might be reunited at http//www.sebomenoi.com and join in the mission of reconstituting the Sabi infrastructure.In Sabi
ah Hunafa, there are those who are Israelites by pedigree, and those who are from any other nation (like me). Exactly as you have described TAJ, those Sabieen who are israelites (i.e. Eledheena Haadu exactly as you say) by pedigree (Sabioon) only marry amongst themselves, but may also marry women from among the rest of us Sabieen. Their women wear the nikaab. Any man whose mother was a sister from among the Sabioon may also marry from Annisa among the rest of us Sabieen (who do not wear nikaab). Any man whose father was a brother from among the sabieen may also marry from Annisa among the rest of us sabieen. There are more rules with regards to the marriage system, but as to why this system exists, Allahualim. If someone is married when they become Sabieen, then their marriage does not become any problem at all, but if they are not already married, once they become a Sabi, then the marriage restrictions apply to them because they have become what we call Ezwejrasool.As I say, pleas do send me the details, since it is of vital importance that we contact them and let them know that we still exist.
Jizakallah khair wa salamu aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakhatuh.
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Assalam Alaykum Brother,
Those are plenty of details. It seems that you are talking about a completely different group of people than what I thought.
"Allatheena Hadoo" are not "Al Ssabe'een" as both groups were mentioned in Al Quran clearly as different groups of believers +.
The people here called some group of few rich people, who care to marry from each other (maybe to keep the wealth between them) but that is an old thing now as they are marrying from outside more frequently,, in the past they would call them as Jews because they were very wealthy yet extremely humble, and did not like to show of their weallth. But as I said they are clearly and most definitely mainstream sunni muslims.Jizakallah Khair TAJ,
Not a tribe, but an Ahl. Please do send me the Arabic references. Since the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Sabi infrastructure has been virtually destroyed. Anything which might assist those of us who remain in restoring that infrastructure is of absolutely vital importance. I should explain that "Sabianism" originally comes from Nooh (SAW) so because of the age of the religion there are bound to be many deviant (Sabi
ah Mushrikoon) sects of Sabis in the world today, but from what you describe it certainly sounds like these people belong to what we call the Sabiah Hunafawhich are basically the rightly guided Sabioon whose predecessors followed Ibrim (Ibrahim SAW) out of Yazidi Arruha. The religions that descend from Sabianism include, of course islam, but also Yazdanism (out of which came the Nasaraeans), Babism, Bahai, and even Magianism to a certain extent. Yes I am a Sabi. I visit free-minds.org because I know there used to be a lot of Sabieen here up until a few years ago, (some were deluded into thinking they are muslims but want to change Islam into Sabianism instead of changing themselves into muslims, others really were converted to real islam and presumeably left sabianism behind) and I am hoping that if any still visit this board that they might be reunited at http//www.sebomenoi.com and join in the mission of reconstituting the Sabi infrastructure.In Sabi
ah Hunafa, there are those who are Israelites by pedigree, and those who are from any other nation (like me). Exactly as you have described TAJ, those Sabieen who are israelites (i.e. Eledheena Haadu exactly as you say) by pedigree (Sabioon) only marry amongst themselves, but may also marry women from among the rest of us Sabieen. Their women wear the nikaab. Any man whose mother was a sister from among the Sabioon may also marry from Annisa among the rest of us Sabieen (who do not wear nikaab). Any man whose father was a brother from among the sabieen may also marry from Annisa among the rest of us sabieen. There are more rules with regards to the marriage system, but as to why this system exists, Allahualim. If someone is married when they become Sabieen, then their marriage does not become any problem at all, but if they are not already married, once they become a Sabi, then the marriage restrictions apply to them because they have become what we call Ezwejrasool.As I say, pleas do send me the details, since it is of vital importance that we contact them and let them know that we still exist.
Jizakallah khair wa salamu aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakhatuh.
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My point about the Israelite Sabi
oon by pedigree was that it is not necessarily inaccurate to call them (but not all Sabieen) "Jews" (Alatheena Hadoo), since they (but not all Sabieen) did come from that group and (unlike other Sabieen) their menfolk are circumcised.Wa Salaam.
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Peace,
By the end of the 90s Sabis were involved in helping a tollerant Saudi gentleman by the name of Layth (who seemed to be a Sabi who had adopted quietism for fear of persecution) to build a "God Alone" website (from the Sabi ethos of La ilaha il Allah) to discuss the relevance of the Quran to world society but by 2002 it had become overrun by "Quran-Aloners" intent on creating a new religion for "progressive muslims",
Layth - Sabi?
Peace,
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Peace,
Layth - Sabi?
Layth = Muslim (God willing)...
By the end of the 90s Sabis were involved in helping a tollerant Saudi gentleman by the name of Layth (who seemed to be a Sabi who had adopted quietism for fear of persecution) to build a "God Alone" website (from the Sabi ethos of La ilaha il Allah) to discuss the relevance of the Quran to world society but by 2002 it had become overrun by "Quran-Aloners" intent on creating a new religion for "progressive muslims",
As Kyle mentioned, this website (and the subsequent forum) were a result of initial e-mail exchanges and short articles amongst a small group that began back in 1997 (Rope Discussion).
I do not even know what a Sabien is, or why anyone in this day and age would abandon the system of God as originally revealed through Abraham and confirmed/verified by Mohammed in the final Scripture...
And whoever follows other than surrender/Islam as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers. (385)
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peace Layth, all
Peace,
Layth - Sabi?
Layth = Muslim (God willing)...
By the end of the 90s Sabis were involved in helping a tollerant Saudi gentleman by the name of Layth (who seemed to be a Sabi who had adopted quietism for fear of persecution) to build a "God Alone" website (from the Sabi ethos of La ilaha il Allah) to discuss the relevance of the Quran to world society but by 2002 it had become overrun by "Quran-Aloners" intent on creating a new religion for "progressive muslims",
As Kyle mentioned, this website (and the subsequent forum) were a result of initial e-mail exchanges and short articles amongst a small group that began back in 1997 (Rope Discussion).
Then, my safer assumption is, the Sabis probably were amongst your small "Rope Discussion" group.
I do not even know what a Sabien is, <snip>
Albeit it is immaterial, but just to ensure that no unfounded claim directed to bro Layth >(
)
Peace and Salam Mesra dari Malaysia.
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I do not even know what a Sabien is
Maybe its because your spelled it wrongly? D S-A-B-I cerainly you know!. It is someone who has freed their mind from traditions but believes in God ALONE "La ilaha il Allah" in the quest for truth. They disassociate themselves from all sects and don't use the word Muslim (capitol M) as a brand for themselves, but do consider themselves to be muslims (with a small m) inshaallah in the literal meaning of the arabic word you will remember. Likewise they may not follow "I"-slam (the brand) but they do follow "i"-slam (a way of life). The first of the Sabiah
Hunafawas Ibraheem (SAW) (confirmed as being a Haneef in the Quran and even the most renowned historical Muslim scholars wrote about this matter). The Bab (who preceeded the Bahai faith) was also an important Sabi. Don't know why everyone adopts Sabi ideas and teachers but then tries to disassociate themselves from the religion. Must be the strict marriage laws.Ah, the good old days of The Rope & Topica. Tings were really cool back then. Everyone still used to pray 5 times salat, fast for 30 days. Golden times literally. Remember the passion, zeal, enthusiasm, excitement? It is very sad to see muslims leaving the Din as it should be to follow the initial stages of Sibghatullah (sabianism) without realising that it is only supposed to be the first step in leading to the Din!
No offence at all is intended by the info on the website. Layth was a true gentleman. We did not say he is a Sabi only that back then he seemed to be a Sabi who had adopted quietism for his own safety. This is a fair assumption based upon his beliefs documented at the time. I wanted very much to support and help his important efforts, but was not happy about the idea of "progressive muslims".
Brother Layth, at your request of course I will motion to remove this name from the website, and to appologise if necessary, if it has offended you in any way at all.
Salamu aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakhatahu. group
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Peace,
Sure you do! You will remember. Maybe its because your spelled it wrongly. It is someone who has freed their mind from traditions but believes in God ALONE \"La ilaha il Allah\" in the quest for truth. They don\'t use the word Muslim (capitol M) as a brand for themselves, but do considerthemselves to be muslims (with a small m) in the literal meaning of the arabic word. Likewise they may not follow \"I\"-slam (the brand) but they do follow \"i\"-slam (a way of life).
Interesting play on words (small m not capital, small i not capital). I only know to follow the system revealed by the God of Abraham, that system is submission/surrender (islam in Arabic).
The first of the Sabiah
Hunafawas Ibraheem (SAW). The Bab (who preceeded the Bahai faith) was also an important Sabi. Don\'t know why everyone adopts Sabi ideas and teachers but then tries to disassociate themselves from the religion. Must be the strict marriage laws.Abraham was neither a jew or nazzarine or sabi or any other sect...He was a monotheist submitter (hanifan musliman - see 367).
Ah, the good old days of The Rope. Tings were really cool back then. Everyone still used to pray 5 times salat, fast for 30 days. Golden times literally. Remember the passion, zeal, enthusiasm, excitement? It is very sad to see muslims leaving the Din as it should be to follow the initial stages of Sibghatullah (sabianism) without realising that it is only supposed to be the first step in leading to the Din!
One celebrates abondonning shirk and learning to adhere to the teachings of God Alone...
No offence at all is intended by the info on the website. Layth is a true gentleman. We did not say he is a Sabi only that back then he seemed to be a Sabi who had adopted quietism for his own safety. This is a fair assumption based upon his beliefs documented at the time. We wanted very much to support and help his important efforts, but were not happy about the idea of \"progressive muslims\".
Please spare me the cryptical
we wanted to support his efforts...All praise is due to God and no one else if I am guided, and all blame is upon myself and no one else if I am misguided.
Brother Layth, at your request of course we will remove his name from the website if it has offended you in any way at all, and will appologise if necessary.
Yes, please do remove my name as I dissasociate myslef clearly from all sects (including the Sabien sect you are promoting).
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Yes, "Sabien" is very problematic. D No sect promotion, and no word games or translated new brand names (capital letters are a western invention), just reviving historical interest.
Please spare me the cryptical
we wanted to support his efforts...No, but we really did. And that is not sarcasm. The struggle was as necessary as parting ways. You have your success!
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Asalamu aleikum warahmatullah wabarakhatahu -
Peace,
No, but we really did. And that is not sarcasm. The struggle was as necessary as parting ways. You have your success!
So, according to your cryptic posts I should undertsand it that these
Sabienscame and wrote the articles we read on the website while allowing the writer to falsly think he/she was the author?These Sabiens sound more like the holy spirit than a bunch of humans.
If I have misunderstood, then please clarify in simple non-cryptic terms how these mysterious people you claim to be a member of have initiated this website which is made-up of articles whereby each article has an author name.
Otherwise, I will please ask you to stop misrepresenting me and others which you clearly are doing.
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Peace be upon you TheSabi,
Are you Kazimir or somebody who knows Kazimir?
The truth is not something to be covered up or mixed with falsehood.
Neil.
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Salaam Neil handshake I hope from your comments about truth that you are not into conspiracies are you? D Are you connected with ccg by any chance? Your message history is very interesting indeed. Please send an email, if you would, summarizing as much as you know. But bare in mind that forum private messages are monitored.
Salaam Layth, Where does this word "sabien" come from? If what is already written is not as simple and clear enough already, then at least please do not terminate my account or delete this thread.
It seems I have outstayed my welcome here now.I will be at
http//www.islamicboard.com to enjoy a more exempliary, friendly, tollerant, scholastic, historical, excellently researched, academically historical, open-minded, and innovation-free environment of genuine, discovery, learning, dialogue where gentleness and loving speech is encouraged, and totalitarianism is frowned upon.Salaamu alekum wa rahmatullah wa barakhatahu.
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