salat = meeting to administrate the islamic state
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Peace Kyle,
Idolfree1
What is your view? Do you also hold "commitment(singular)" as your understanding?Marie
My view is simple, one of the several meanings of the verb salla is to follow closely.I agree, but we must "climb the mount" , ascend above this low level so we can enter the place of hearing and obeying the God's restrictions(masjid al haraam), which is our point of focus, and there is a process given to us that we must maintain in order to do so.
The Reading is clear and simple, sometimes you wish to deepen certain concepts that you pass next to the meaning given in the Reading.
As for salat, sujud is also simple to grasp in the light of the Reading
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And to God submit (yasjudu) all those in the heavens and all those on the Earth, from the creatures as well as the Angels, and they are not arrogant.
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They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded.
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And when the Reading is being related to them, they do not prostrate (la yasjudoona).
Sujood is to do what we are commanded. In order to do it, read this Reading, you have no need to get into Trance.
Idem for almasjid alharam, it is well detailed through the Reading.
We must learn to put ourselves into Trance through meditation in order to reprogram our Minds/SPirits(nafs). This is the PROCESS how we purify the Nafs.
Do you think that the God forgot to specify that salat is the process of getting into a TRANCE.
If the God explains it of this manner and if you don't mind, please do quote the verses which refers to this theory?In the light of the Reading, salat is due to the God but through what? Through His message (for example) which is a guide for those who choose to follow the divine laws.
- Recite what is inspired to you of the Scripture, and hold the salat; for the salat prohibits evil and vice, and the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.
We are to take what is INSPIRED to us of the Universal Law(kitaab) and maintain the process(meditation) that allows us to get this Inspiration and program our Nafs.
How do you know that what is inspired to you is from the God or the universal law or only from your desire.
The goal of salat is to serve only the God and to leave what the ancestors served.
1187. They said ?O Shu?ayb, does your salat order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? You are the compassionate, the sane!?What do you translate salaat as in the above verse?
As stated by Danish and in the light of the Reading, Salat means to commit to GOD's commands. Our salat is our duties; all what we are commanded and prohibited to do.
I maintain PROCESS, it was Shuibs process to meditate, not to follow fathers or be fooolish with money.
ShuAAab follow closely (salat) the God through what is inspired to him i.e. the divine message like this Reading. He serve only the God.
His people follow what the ancestors served instead of the God's system.Peace
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Peace be upon you,
Think of how people "WILL" to do right, lets say like stop smoking, but they keep right on smoking, or they want to excercise more because they know it is good for them, but they dont go to th egym, etc.
There is more to it than just "maintining commitments", there is a PROCESS here which allows the part of us that WILLS a thing to "wed" with the part of us that carries out a thing.
A mere WISHING for something is not good enough.
Danish, the statement of "now be a good boy" indicates for me that we must end our discussion. I found it hard not to reply in a disrespefctful manner, so lets end it.
Marie, I will wait until I am finish gathering the info for my article then we can discuss further.
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Peace Kyle,
Think of how people "WILL" to do right, lets say like stop smoking, but they keep right on smoking, or they want to excercise more because they know it is good for them, but they dont go to th egym, etc.
There is more to it than just "maintining commitments", there is a PROCESS here which allows the part of us that WILLS a thing to "wed" with the part of us that carries out a thing.
Whatever you're suggesting/implying above has nothing to do with "process" at dawn and dusk NOR the word salaat. Enough explanations and PROOFS from within Quran has been stated.
A mere WISHING for something is not good enough.
That's a good one and sure reflects on you when you present wishy-washy scenarios without any Quranic support and proper explanatin.
Danish, the statement of "now be a good boy" indicates for me that we must end our discussion. I found it hard not to reply in a disrespefctful manner, so lets end it.
Once again, this shows your inability to comprehend, present supportive and coherent views, disregarding and not reflecting upon Quranic Message, not paying any heed on several posts, and finally chickening-out on something like "now be a good boy". Can't take the heat, huh? wink
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Peace be upon you Danish,
Can't take the heat, huh?
Just following the COVENANT not to argue(jidala) in the debate(hajja).
Peace to you.
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Peace Kyle,
Can't take the heat, huh?
Just following the COVENANT not to argue(jidala) in the debate(hajja).
Peace to you.
This is exactly what you do when you fail to explain and support yourself. Just because I don't agree with your ideas, doesn't mean I have been arguing all along, and do note vice-versa.
Although, the topic of salaat has been discussed at length many times before, I would sincerely like other forum members to pitch in their views. Better yet, why not take a poll, with or without posts. I'm sure people here would give their honest views and not take sides. Would that be fair to you Kyle or would you rather have your way?
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Peace be upon you Danish,
You are free to do whatever you please to do, I have simply ended my debate with you in favor of Peace. While I am sure you still see "commitment" I see "process", but we cannot move further due to your inability to stick to the debate, but instead insult. I dont have time for it and the instruction is that there is no arguing in the debate. You can call it being chicken or whatever else you can come up with. I certainly will not refrain from discussing it further, as salaat is my favorite topic, but our discussion is through.
Not sure what effect a "poll" will have on the truth of a matter.
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Peace, all...
One of the "tricks" of sectarian Islam is that only in Arabic can the quran be fully appreciated. It seems that this is based on the fact that not all arabic words have a directly-correlating english word. This definately seems to be the case with "salat."
Perhaps this is why salat's definition is so complicated. Surely when GOD revealed the quran, the word was a common one, as it is used in various forms well over 75 times throughout. just as the word that "permits" them to beat their wives! just like the moon/month word. Just because the sectarians say that some words do not have an english equivalent does not mean that it is NOT TRUE. If they were wrong about everything in life, they'd all be dead, having eaten poison, or worse.
Partial definitions, such as connecting, following closely, PRAYER, etc, probably are in fact part of this non-english word's meaning...prayer emphasized because it probably was added as a possible meaning when no english word was found to give justice...but that more than likely meant something else to pagan nomads of long ago.
I cannot criticize anyone for their attempt at understanding. We know that only GOD truly knows what was meant, and we're all trying.
Myself, I cannot give a definition. I feel most at peace, like I've at least touched on the truth, when I force myself up early to read the quran & pray to GOD without distractions. Same for evening, especially since i get a sense of guilt or "unpeace...non-peace" when i choose to be distracted by worldly things & just say a li'l prayer from my pillow. So, one could say my approach to understanding is through "feeling".
The birds, who are a community like us, know their salat. I get much satisfaction & what feels like confirmation when i'm reading and the birds' loud chirping at dawn is all i hear.Peace,
brian -
Peace be upon you,
I think I might be changing over to "commitment". I have to look a bit closer, but I am starting to see some things that I did not before.
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Peace Kyle,
You are free to do whatever you please to do, I have simply ended my debate with you in favor of Peace. While I am sure you still see "commitment" I see "process", but we cannot move further due to your inability to stick to the debate, but instead insult. I dont have time for it and the instruction is that there is no arguing in the debate. You can call it being chicken or whatever else you can come up with. I certainly will not refrain from discussing it further, as salaat is my favorite topic, but our discussion is through.
Not sure what effect a "poll" will have on the truth of a matter.
Kyle, I don?t play games with Quran and neither do I ?hitchhike? my way out. You could have demonstrated professionalism and respectfulness by letting me know that you would further seek, understand and study the relevance of salaat throughout the Quran and by reflecting upon my posts (similar to what you mentioned in your last post above), instead of enforcements and confessions. This would have not led to the alleged ?insults? you claim and after all, I am not perfect either. For a starter, Aidid Safar's article on salaat is quite commendable (www.aididsafar.com). Nevertheless, I do believe that some of your posts on other topics are very interesting and thoughtful.
Take it easy Kyle and hope you come up with a better understanding of the word salaat. ) GOD bless.
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Peace be upon you,
Yes, Aidids article, which is updated from the one I remember reading, is very good. It is what has me seeing things differently. I am not sure how to take the rest of your post though.
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Peace be upon you,
Yes, I read this debate back after reading Aidid's article, I withdraw from the position of process, well stated arguments Danish, Marie, and everyone else.
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Peace be upon you,
Yes, I read this debate back after reading Aidid's article, I withdraw from the position of process, well stated arguments Danish, Marie, and everyone else.
Peace,
Can you explain what have convinced you ?
"Process" have never seemed cogent to me, it is like "act", it is not very clear.
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Peace be upon you JM,
Can you explain what have convinced you ?
"Process" have never seemed cogent to me, it is like "act", it is not very clear.
Just a strong argument that finally made sense to me. Nothing more than that. This is why we debate. Just have to be humble enough to admit when you see the truth. And its hard to do when a person you are debating starts to speak down to you. But when seeking the truth you really have no choice.