Discrepancies in the Quran
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Since it is quite a complex book, I would prefer to discuss it with people who read it rather than quoting pages and pages.
Did any of you read it?Was salaam
oyuniSalaam Uhuru,
I did not read it and I think there are better books to read on my reading list, I read rather widely. Perhaps I will read it someday, my point is there is a lot more to learn about the Book of GOD that I'd rather get a good grounding as oppossed to a 5 minute study as albion shows and thinks he has grasped it.
Perhaps you could start its own thread..
Salaam
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has any of you read Ibn Warraq's book "Why I am not a Muslim"???
No I haven't read it, but I can understand why he is not a Muslim
later stage in his life the prophet used to "get" revelations in order to cover his actions.
Yes this is true, one classic example is the verse about marrying the wife of your adopted sons.
But there are many other self serving verses like the verses about killing and being killed in the NAME of Allah are clearly not the words of God, but in fact self serving verses that Muhammad added to force his follows Kill and be kill in the cause of Muhammad
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But there are many other self serving verses like the verses about killing and being killed in the NAME of Allah are clearly not the words of God, but in fact self serving verses that Muhammad added to force his follows Kill and be kill in the cause of Muhammad
In the name of GOD, it refers to those who have not kept their treaty repeatedly as in Surah 8 and 9. But, you christians are pissed off as we are still here, and you would have preferred us to just curl up and die.
In the name of GOD, is in the name of justice. You kill in the name of country in self defense and for phoney reasons and kill hundreds and thousands. It is OK to kill for secular reasons but not in the name of GOD, who has no need for you to kill for Him, but merely so that you survive.
In the name of GOD, authorises you to defend yourself when attacked. You can only attack when you're attacked. Simple as, but for those who want to comprehend...
But you will not because your mind is made up!
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Great! I don't find anything wrong in Albion's quote.
3875 He said O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling prostrate before that which I have created with both My hands ? Art thou too proud or art thou of the high exalted?
1532 He said O Iblis! What aileth thee that thou art not among the prostrate ?
712 He said What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee ?
It is clear enough to understand the following
Allah said, O Iblis! what hindered you that you did not fall prostrate when I bade you to fall prostrate before that which I have created with both of my hands?......
This includes all what is said in 3875, 1532 and 712
3876 He said I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire, whilst him Thou didst create of clay.
1533 He said I am not one to prostrate myself unto a mortal whom Thou hast created out of potter's clay of black mud altered!
712 (Iblis) said I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of clay.
Next we have Iblis? Response
Iblis said I am not one to prostrate myself unto a mortal whom you have created with potter's clay of black mud altered and you have created me of fire. So, I am better than him.
Is there any problem in the above said?
3877 He said Go forth from hence, for lo! thou art outcast,
1534 He said Go forth from hence, for lo! thou art outcast
0713 He said Then go down hence! It is not for thee to show pride here, so go forth! Lo! thou art of those degraded.
Next we have Allahs response to what Iblis said
Allah said Then go down hence! It is not for you to show pride here, so go forth! Lo! you art of those degraded outcast.
3878 And lo! My curse is on thee till the Day of Judgment.
1535 And lo! the curse shall be upon thee till the Day of Judgment.
My curse shall be upon you till the day of judgement.
3879 He said My Lord! Reprieve me till the day when they are raised.
1536 He said My Lord! Reprieve me till the day when they are raised.
0714 He said Reprieve me till the day when they are raised
Iblis said My Lord! Reprieve me till the day when they are raised.
Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy
Absolutely true... !
And please look at the following verses
"And We have cited in this Quran so they may remember, but it only increases their aversion" 1741
"Say If there had been gods with Him as they say, then they would have tried to gain a way to the throne" 1742
"Be He glorified and High from what they say, a great falsehood" 1743"Say If all the humans and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Quran like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another" 1788
"And We have cited to mankind in this Quran of every example, but most of mankind refuse to be anything but a rejecter!" 1789May Allah open our hearts for Islam and guide us towards the correct path.
Regards,
MMKhan
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Hi Ashuura
I think you should not make general statements (attacks at) about Christians when you reply to Albion. It is 1) wrong/unfair and 2) offensive.
YOU kill in the name of x, y and z does not apply to Christians or Muslims but to a large part of humanity (and what about muslim muslim wars such as iraq iran war, what about senegal mauritiania war, civil wars in yemen, algeria, afghanistan?)
I think it is completely wrong to think in WE and YOU, if you polarize the world like this you will surely get the rewards for it.And if you have not read Ibn Warraq's book you should not judge how useful it is to read. You seem to be as closed minded as you accuse Albion to be??
Salaam
oyuni -
PS to previous message to Ash Shuura
Ash Shura, actually, even when replying to Albion I do not see why you should attack him the way you do. He just asked a question and presented his reasoning. Why should you attack him? Is that the peace and love that Islam and Christianity propose?
oyuni
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Peace uhuru,
He just asked a question and presented his reasoning.
I beg to differ, the whole premise of the creation of this thread (and pretty much any thread albion starts) is an attack. Ash shuura is merely giving albion a much milder version of his own medicine.In regard to Ibn Warraq's book, it would be interesting to hear your view on a new thread. Also, here's a short thread on the same subject, maybe you can continue there.
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Peace Oyuni,
Perhaps instead of engaging in a diatribe, you would care to explain what offended you so much. In my view you it seems you are responding to what you want to see. Albion's posts here go a long way and we are aware of his preconceived notions. I am free to challenge and give it in the same measure. If you think I have exceeded show me how!
And, respectfully refer to my post carefully, I said I might read Warraqs book someday! Aren't you jumping to your own conclusions here? I simply have a long reading list right now and its not a priority. Am I closed minded because my priorities are not the same as yours? I was trying to be helpful to you by suggesting a seperate thread so people can see, perhaps responding was a big mistake.
No hard feelings this time D
Peace and security wink
regards
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Really, do you believe this with sound analysis and reasoning as opposed to the fact that it might invalidate your belief that Jesus is a god
Can you post a quote from one of my posts where I've ever said that is my belief.... wish you luck!!
And if you cant post a link to a post where I have said that, than you are just doing what Muhamad did... i.e Misquoting, but in Muhammads case he Misquoted bot God and Iblis.
Back up your claim please!!
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Albion,
Show me where does it say in the Qur'an it is a word for word record? This is your interpretation of consistency and not of the Qur'an. You have not answered one challenge and you're bringing your self into the debate.
Incidentally, I speculated you were a christian and I should have known better you would say "jesus is god" and nitpick. Or aren't you a christian? Where did I say this is my assertion? It was very clear I was speculating there making a rhetorical argument. Can I take it you were not making assertions but speculating likewise, in all instances? That will do for me lol
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.It was very clear I was speculating there making a rhetorical argument.
The same as Muhammad speculated what God and Iblis said, and got it wrong 3 times. .
Show me where does it say in the Qur'an it is a word for word record?
That question has already been addressed
3875 He said O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling prostrate before that which I have created with both My hands ? Art thou too proud or art thou of the high exalted?
This is a QUOTE.. It starts with God saying in the third person singular "He said" and than changed to first person singular, stating what God himself said to Iblis. He starts "O Iblis.. " so he is clearly addressing Iblis in the first person and quoting what God himself said in the first person "I have created".
Now a question for any here who is game to answer it
What did God SAY to Iblis when Iblis refused to prostate before Adam ?
God has told you exactly what he said so it shouldn't be hard for someone here to answer that question!!
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It seems you are all having troubles answering this question..
What did God SAY to Iblis when Iblis refused to prostate before Adam ?
God has told you exactly what he said so it shouldn't be hard for someone here to answer that question!!
Now for the Next Discrepancy in the quran
930 The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD" while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.
Muhammad had many mistakes when he took material from other sources like the Bible etc. But how Muhammad made the mistake of thinking the Jews say that Ezra is the son of God is a mistery.
There is nothing in the Torah (OT) that even hints at Ezra ever being called the son of God. So Muhammad must have got this bit of misinformation from another source.
But where ever Muhammad got this wrong information from it is more evidence that the Quran is NOT from God because God wouldn't make such a mistake
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Dear Ash Shuura
You asked what offended me... First it did not offend me personally but I felt that your reply was not portraying peace and tolerance but division and agression. You wrote
"But, you christians are pissed off as we are still here, and you would have preferred us to just curl up and die.
In the name of GOD, is in the name of justice. You kill in the name of country in self defense and for phoney reasons and kill hundreds and thousands. It is OK to kill for secular reasons but not in the name of GOD, who has no need for you to kill for Him, but merely so that you survive. "What do THE CHRISTIANS have to do with you and Albion, even if Albion was a Christian? And the Christians you are talking about are some fanatic Americans and may be some Europeans, what characterizes them more than being Christians is the fact that they belong to the countries that are currently ruling the world, politics is politics and politicians like to misguide their people by using religion. What about all the other Christians in Africa, Asia and Latin America? Are you talking about them as well? And what about all the Christians who are against these wars, against scrupelous money making, etc and who have never even thought about Muslims curling up and dying??? - i think they are in a majority. And independent of this statement Do you know that the majority of British and Spanish population opposed their governments when they joined the US forces in Iraq????
My point was just, that you should not generalize and I am worried that many people have these stereotypical ideas and spread them and create hatred and mistrust.
And apart from that I know quite a few Muslims who are also in doubt whether the Qur'an is the word from God or not, and they ask similar questions as Albion does. What would you say to them??? I think asking is the best thing you can do, it will only bring you closer to the truth (generally speaking it will either confirm your view or show you new possibilities or a different truth), assuming that one is really open for all possible answers and evaluates them carefully. I myself have a lot of questions about a few Suras, and I hope to discuss them with you guys when I finish my thesis, because now I do not have enough time.
But what I surely believe is that GOD wants peace and love and not hatred and agression. And what I also believe is that love and understanding creates more love and peace and attacking creates more hatred and agression. Even if you are all pissed off with Albion because he asks questions that you do not like and is not satisfied with your answers, no matter whether he is a Muslim, a Christian or sth else, I think that you can either conclude that you will never agree or keep trying convincing each other, but without the kind of attacks that I feel are completely wrong. Do you know what I mean?????? Sorry, if I intruded to much in your thread, but I feel that this kind of communication is part of if not basis of all the conflicts between religions that we witness on this globe.
I would appreciate to hear your opinion on this.
Salaam,
Oyuni
PS I am not a Christian -
I would appreciate to hear your opinion on this.
Peace Oyuni,
I hear what you say but I don't share your views. You seem to subscribe to the notion everyone is without ideology and rational human beings. Well, they aren't. Some people here are here to pursue their preconceived notions and the mode of discussion will have to be altered on that basis. You don't use reason in response to lack of reason!
You just have to work each individual out for yourself over time may I respectfully suggest.
Peace
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It seems all here are having trobles explaining the discrepanies in the Quran...
Just to remind you., I will repost the questions that remain unanswered becfore we move on to the next discrepancy
It seems you are all having troubles answering this question..
What did God SAY to Iblis when Iblis refused to prostate before Adam ?
God has told you exactly what he said so it shouldn't be hard for someone here to answer that question!!
Now for the Next Discrepancy in the quran
930 The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD" while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.
Muhammad had many mistakes when he took material from other sources like the Bible etc. But how Muhammad made the mistake of thinking the Jews say that Ezra is the son of God is a mistery.
There is nothing in the Torah (OT) that even hints at Ezra ever being called the son of God. So Muhammad must have got this bit of misinformation from another source.
But where ever Muhammad got this wrong information from it is more evidence that the Quran is NOT from God because God wouldn't make such a mistake
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We haven't accepted your claims
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We haven't accepted your claims
What did God SAY to Iblis when Iblis refused to prostate before Adam ?
That a question NOT a claim!!
So far all have FAILED to account for the first discrepanices... stay tuned because more to come
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That a question NOT a claim!!
A question based on a false premise is not a valid question. We can all ask false questions and ignore challenges to our premises.
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This is what the false prophet Muhammad CLAIMS
930 The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD" while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.