What is "God/Allah"?
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Hi,
We can not help but to put limits on God. ?
Hate and love are human perceptions and, when analyzed, are just variations on our scale of emotions. Hate and love are therefore illusions, just as is existence.
The ultimate ?something? is the source of all emotions.When we say something exists it just means that we have a perception of it. To us, God must, what we call ?exist?, because we have a notion of ourselves and everything else we can perceive, to exist.
For God, existence and non-existence is irrelevant.
For instance, do you exist when you are totally unconscious? At that moment, how do you know? rollThe same is true for all utterances that we call words, names and so on. These are all limited to our own perception. God knows what is in our minds and doesn?t need words.
Words are, when uttered, just various types of sounds; when written, various types of images. They don?t mean anything at all unless we put meanings into them.
The meanings we put into words depends on our language, culture (time and place etc.), so that one word in one language, in one culture, at one time and place, may mean a different thing compared to another instance.God does not need words to communicate with us, neither do we need words to communicate with God.
Maybe humans, at one time, also had this capability to communicate between each other, but we seem to have lost most of it, although we see instances where humans still show some of this ability.
However, in order for us to communicate with each other, we have invented, and developed languages, and given certain meanings to words, both written and spoken.When God ?sent? information to us through messengers, the messengers, consciously or unconsciously, formed this communication (revelations) into words of their own language, culture, time and place.
Therefore, when God communicated with Muhammad, the message delivered in the communication, was formed into words of his language, Arabic, as these were understood at that time and place.We have put negative and positive meanings into words, which vary depending on our language, culture, time and place.
What is told us in the Qur?an is that we should not use any word which we perceive as negative to mean the ?most positive?, or ?the ultimate all?.I believe the reason that the word ?Allah? is used in the Qur?an to signify the ?ultimate all?, or God or whatever we prefer to call it, is because the people at that time had a positive perception of this word. Maybe something they perceived as the best, the greatest etc. As love is a very great power, this could be one of the meanings, but I believe there are more to it.
When the overall, underlying meaning of a message becomes clear, the meaning of each single word in a certain context can be better understood.
One very important thing is to reach an understanding of, as to what end a message was delivered in the first place.
Without this understanding it is totally futile to try to comprehend the message.
Very often we see that single words, or sentences, are picked out and analyzed in order to reach a conclusion as to what the meaning is, and the result can become utterly ridiculous, or meaningless.I would, like others here, love to hear from someone who has studied the Qur?anic message in a way as mentioned, and has been able to reach conclusions as to what the various words mean in various contexts.
In the case of Allah, or God or Vogoban it does not matter what word we use as long as the word, for us, signifies something of the greatest an/or best we can think of.
Shaytan is probably at the opposite end of a scale from good to bad, and means just that.Best regards
Ali Omar
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Dearest shamsul-arefin
The Quran says Islam is the only religion since creation. Do we think Arabic was created at the time the first atom was created? Or the single cell ameba was created?
Then what do you think Abraham would have called Islam. How about Moses, Aaron, Hud, Saleh, Shuaib & Noah. If you think that while speaking Aramaic Prophet Jesus called it Islam it is nonsense. Islam means Submission. What ever language you say it in it still is submission.
Think about the things people do to separate from others. Idolize their community, family, prophet, region, country, Color, race, money, power, clothes even religion itself. They idolize these things they can name. My community is X and we are special people descendants of Y. this is because they can give a name to their idol. Everything above can be given a name. Color ? Tan, Clothes ? rich, prophet-Jesus, family-Caesar, region-north etc. these names can be given a definition. Rich clothed people are affluent in society, Jesus is the son of god, Caesar is a royal family, etc.
If our religions name is Islam then we can give definitions. Islam = X+Y+100 multiplied by 1192 as most people do. But Islam is not a name. It is something we have to do.
Do you think that Abraham called God Allah? Ilohim was a jewish word in which they referred to god. Obviously Abraham would have called Allah by that name. Definitely not Allah. There is a reference in the Hebrew bible to god as Alah which is very close. Allah is an Arabic word for god and Muhammad was born an Arab. Jesus was a jew. Can both be Muslims? Jesus calls god ilahim and we call him Allah. Are we talking about separate gods? His gods name is ilahim and my gods name is Allah.
Allah is not something like Krishna, Shiva, Atlas or Zeus. These are names that you can name a man with if you want. When a person says my gods name is Allah it is like saying my fathers name is dad. In psychological studies there is a story of a toddler who was asked his name and the child said ?No mikey?. The name was mikey and the mother always says no mikey don?t do that, No mikey dont do this and child has heard it so many times that he has decided to himself that his name is 'no Mikey'.
God, Baghwan, Kadawul, Deviyo, Adonai, Ilohim, Teos all these are translations of the word god. Of course if you really want we can use one of these as a name.
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Hate and love are human perceptions and, when analyzed, are just variations on our scale of emotions. Hate and love are therefore illusions, just as is existence.
Love is an illusion? And yet why does it mean so much to people? Even honest atheist find hard to discount love!
Is love of a child an illusion? Is love of God illusion?
As for Satan being bad - was he not standing up for his rights? He was after all was made of Fire and Human's made of mud, so why should he bow down to man of mud when he bows down to God?
Regards,
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Dear LoteTree,
Love is not a quantifiable substance or existence; it is a variable on our scale of emotions from ?hate? to ?love?.
But these emotions can result in something very real, and tangible, and that is our actions based on, or expressions of, love and/or hate.Right, Satan is not actually good and/or bad, but in our minds Satan gives an image of something ?not so good?.
Well, at least in the minds of some of us, I can not speak on your behalf.Regards
Ali Omar
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My thoughts on the matter can be summed up by my signature
The idea of an indefinable God is not popular amongst most people...
Its a frightening concept to entertain
And, IMO, to entertain it takes a different type of humility and submission.
Its not easy to admit and accept one may never be able to define it in this life.
Its even harder to not CARE about defining this force by manmade definitions.
A credible source is trying to tell me that our "nafs" henders us from the truth here on Earth...
This "nafs" tells you that you are seperated from the whole
that you are separated
that you are "you"
and the creation is something else
and the creator is something else entirely
The nafs is our medium of illusion.
If you can break from the nafs influence,
even if it is only a wrinkle in time
That time is an opportunity for you to "see". -
SaLaM All
I will comment on a remark made by Ali Omar
Is it a logical error because we, humans, perceive ?infinite? as a limit?
Actually we can not even perceive ?infinite?.
Do you think God has the same limitations, or is ?infinite? within God?I agree with you Omar. There are only handful of things which are infinte. For example, 10/3 = 3.33333333333333333.... so on and so on. This is ofcourse man made and therefore can be wrong. But the universe if not infinate. There are only that much number of stars and more are forming. But we are just too lazy to think how much or give that number a name. Even parallell univeres are not infinite. So yes, in that sense God IS bigger than infinite http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
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Peace idmkhizar,
Khi- Salam. All these verses prove that we live in a matrix simulated by GOD and all is but an illusion. There is no reality but GOD. Alhamdulillah! GOD Bless!
Hmm... How do you know that "There is no reality but GOD" itself is not an illusion? How about your own writings? Are they illusions? What about your own existence? Is that an illusion? If so, then who is writing? God or some devil? So, again is that an illusion? What about me asking you all this? Is this an illusion?
Anwar Azim
Khi- Salam. Yes i beleive it is all a simulation controlled by GOD at every instant like a matrix. Get my point? GOD Bless!
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Peace Mr. Khi,
Khi- Salam. Yes i beleive it is all a simulation controlled by GOD at every instant like a matrix. Get my point? GOD Bless!
People can believe all sorts of things. It proves nothing. Got it?
Anwar Azim
Khi- Salam. These verses should make it clear
Every person tastes death, then you receive your recompense on the Day of Resurrection. Whoever misses Hell, barely, and makes it to Paradise, has attained a great triumph. The life of this world is no more than an ILLUSION.He promises them and entices them; what the devil promises is no more than an illusion.
Comment When the devil entices us to go after wealth, big cars, luxurious mentions, we must not forget that these are all illusions and that GOD is the real reality. We must never forget GOD. We can take pleaseure in this world BUT THROUGH THE REMEMBRANCE OF GOD.The life of this world is no more than ILLUSION and vanity, while the abode of the Hereafter is far better for the righteous. Do you not understand?!
O people, you shall reverence your Lord, and fear a day when a father cannot help his own child, nor can a child help his father. Certainly, GOD's promise is truth. Therefore, do not be distracted by this life; do not be distracted from GOD by mere ILLUSIONs.
We know now by modern scientific reseasrch that everything we see, touch or smell ARE MERE PERCEPTIONS IN THE BRAIN. Neither the smell nor the light reaches the brain. Inside it is completely dark. Only electrical signals. If we were able to stimulate those particular neorons in the brain by electrical signals we would see, smell or hear according to the stimulation without anything actually being present. Take dreams for example. We see, hear and even smell but there's nothing but electrical signals. So it's all ultimately signals/waves which issue from the Almightya GOD so there is no reality but Him. Get it? GOD Bless!
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What is God? can we think about IT beyond our traditional theory ?
"The fishes of a certain river communed with one another, saying, they tell us that our life and being is from water, but we have never seen water, we don't know what it is." Then some among them, wiser than the rest, said, We have heard there dwells in the sea a wise and learned fish, who knows all things. Let us journey to him, and ask him to show us what water is."
"So several of them set out to find this great and wise fish, and they came at last to the sea where in the wise fish dwelt, and they asked of him."
"And when he heard them he said to them, O you foolish fish that don't contemplate! The few of you who seek, are wise. You live, and move, and have your being in the water; from the water you came, to the water you return. You live in the water, yet you don't know it.' In a similar manner, you live in God, and yet you ask of me, 'Show us God.' God is in all things, and all things are in God."
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Peace Mr. Khi,
I am going to take a long break from FreeMinds Forum. I'll reply to your post when I get back.
Anwar Azim
Khi- Salam. These verses should make it clear
Every person tastes death, then you receive your recompense on the Day of Resurrection. Whoever misses Hell, barely, and makes it to Paradise, has attained a great triumph. The life of this world is no more than an ILLUSION.He promises them and entices them; what the devil promises is no more than an illusion.
Comment When the devil entices us to go after wealth, big cars, luxurious mentions, we must not forget that these are all illusions and that GOD is the real reality. We must never forget GOD. We can take pleaseure in this world BUT THROUGH THE REMEMBRANCE OF GOD.The life of this world is no more than ILLUSION and vanity, while the abode of the Hereafter is far better for the righteous. Do you not understand?!
O people, you shall reverence your Lord, and fear a day when a father cannot help his own child, nor can a child help his father. Certainly, GOD's promise is truth. Therefore, do not be distracted by this life; do not be distracted from GOD by mere ILLUSIONs.
We know now by modern scientific reseasrch that everything we see, touch or smell ARE MERE PERCEPTIONS IN THE BRAIN. Neither the smell nor the light reaches the brain. Inside it is completely dark. Only electrical signals. If we were able to stimulate those particular neorons in the brain by electrical signals we would see, smell or hear according to the stimulation without anything actually being present. Take dreams for example. We see, hear and even smell but there's nothing but electrical signals. So it's all ultimately signals/waves which issue from the Almightya GOD so there is no reality but Him. Get it? GOD Bless!
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Har che andeshi pa zerai pana ast
Wa anche dar andesha na ayad an ?Khoda? ast! (Rumi)Mere thinking seeks sanctuary when it?s exhausted (ppl think about it and at the end defines it so it fits with their mindset)..
But the thing that doesn?t come to your comprehension is ?Khoda? (God)!One wonders what doesn?t come to our comprehension!
Anyway, I have two questions in relation to this topic.
- Where does the name Allah come from?
- Can the Righteous meet this Allah when they make it to heaven?
peace
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- Where does the name Allah come from?
Khi- "Allah" is not a name. It's a conraction of the words 'al(the)' and 'ilah(deity)' meaning the god or God or GOD. Just like in Greek we have tontheos(god) and Hotheos(God with capital G). Not all laguages have this distinction btw God(specific) and god(common) but Arabic and Greek does. The word "Allah" is used by all Arabs ncluding Christians, Jews, etc.
- Can the Righteous meet this Allah when they make it to heaven?
peace
Khi- Theres no "THIS Allah" for the word "Allah" is grammatically already in the specific form. Anyways we all areoing to meet GOD one day to give an accounting. GOD Bless!
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All there is, and very conscious about it.
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Khizar,
Nice reply you got there.