Ask about QS 2:2
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Peace Adley,
Hmm...that means.... "This" or "That" for "dzaalika" should not be understood in terms of distance (near-far) or boundaries (inside-outside) but more spiritually?
The guessing or the playing of dealer?s choice by the translators is a fatal flaw. The reading must be studied and pondered for understanding. Read what is written and understand based on it. Dzalika is that and hatha is this. You?re right, that book and this book are two different concepts and the reading explains itself, therefore, the God?s choice of the word dzalika is explained within the book.
BTW, the phrase "as-salaamu alaikum" does not appear in the reading. See 654 for an example of the greeting in the reading. Salaamun changes only according to number being addressed and does not appear with the definite article which changes the meaning. This is why the sectarians hestitate to use it with so-called non-muslims.
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Hello adley
I agree with Goursef
Zalika means "this"
i believe it does not mean "that"
i would say "this" is more appropriate because it means the book is very close to the reader, in fact the book should be in the reader's hand, so when you read Zalika, it means this very book in th hand which is being read by a reader
"That" means the same but it implys something that is not present or possessed in the hand
Allah knows best
peace
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Salaam all,
Thanks for the inputs.
I agree with Goursef
Zalika means "this"
i believe it does not mean "that"
However...
Read what is written and understand based on it. Dzalika is that and hatha is this
When I read other ayats containing hadza, my translations always refer to this. (I hope I'm right -- will verify it again).
And for dzalika, ayats 2515, 3762 translated as that.
But looking Surah 2 ayats 52,61,64,68,74,85,176,178,196,228,231,232,233,248,275 or Surah 3 ayats 13,14,24,28,44,49,58,75,82,89,94,112,156,182 I find it rather difficult to contain dzalika to just this or just that (even my translations reflect it).
I wish I know a lot more Classical Arabic.
And also, perhaps Alif Lam Mim holds the key in the context of 22? What do you think?
I know that rendering the meaning of 21 has left most people, including myself, speechless and conclude that Allah Knows Best (even some scholars who I think are fluent in Classical Arabic say so). Maybe dzalika in 22 refers to Alif Lam Mim. Just maybe.
Wasalaam,
=adley= -
Salam
22 can't be refering to 21
Dhaleka in 22 refers to what will follow the word which is "the Book" or whatever will follow
peace
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Salaamun alaikum Ahmed,
22 can't be refering to 21
Dhaleka in 22 refers to what will follow the word which is "the Book" or whatever will follow
If you look at 22/5, it explains the link between 'al-baath' and the creation of man. 22/6 then continues to say 'DZALIKA bi anna Allah huwa al-haqq...' So, yes, the dzalika points forward to the statement, but links it back to the previous statement.
That's why I believe that ALM has a link with the quality of al-kitaab, laa raiba fihi.
Take a look at 15/1 , please. ALR , TILKA ayaatul kitaab wa quraanun mubiin. How would you read that, brother?
cheers.
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Salaam,
Dhaleka in 22 refers to what will follow the word which is "the Book" or whatever will follow
So, yes, the dzalika points forward to the statement, but links it back to the previous statement.
I was wondering... what is the actual rules of grammar in Classical Arabic regarding the use of dzalika, tilka, and hadza in a sentence/paragraph? I have no idea; that's why I think Alif Lam Mim might be the key. Yet again, maybe not
This is what QXP say regarding 21
A.L.M. Alif. Laam. Mim. Allah, Aleem - the Knower, Latif - the Unfathomable, Majeed - the Magnificent, knows and understands your needs.
Using the above meaning, dzalika simply explains whatever follows because, in my opinion, Allah is simply not al-kitaabu
In Indonesia, I once met a Sunni ustadz (religious teacher title in Indonesia) who said that Alif Lam Mim means Alam (The Universe). Taking the entire universe as al-kitab is quite reasonable, because as the Quran says, His signs are everywhere (just perhaps not written in ink). Noticeably, Alam is an Indonesian word, so this notion is probably far-fetched. But interesting nonetheless.
Wasalaam,
=adley= -
Salaamun alaikum Adley,
Thanks for the SLW pdf. I really benefitted from it.
A.L.M. Alif. Laam. Mim. Allah, Aleem - the Knower, Latif - the Unfathomable, Majeed - the Magnificent, knows and understands your needs.
Using the above meaning, dzalika simply explains whatever follows because, in my opinion, Allah is simply not al-kitaabu
Try asking Shabbir for proof on how he arrived there.
In Indonesia, I once met a Sunni ustadz (religious teacher title in Indonesia) who said that Alif Lam Mim means Alam (The Universe). Taking the entire universe as al-kitab is quite reasonable, because as the Quran says, His signs are everywhere (just perhaps not written in ink). Noticeably, Alam is an Indonesian word, so this notion is probably far-fetched. But interesting nonetheless.
The problem is, 'alam' is AIN lam mim, not alif. Alif lam meem would be 'alim' (PAIN!).
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Salaam mquran,
Thanks for the SLW pdf. I really benefitted from it.
Thank you very much for finding it useful )
The problem is, 'alam' is AIN lam mim, not alif. Alif lam meem would be 'alim' (PAIN!).
You're right. I just checked with Lane's Lexicon uploaded by brother Wakas (Volume 1, p. 119) and it does not fit with the Indonesian word Alam, the universe.
Now, this is purely hypothetical...
Let's say that Alif Lam Mim = ALIM = PAIN as the Lexicon suggests. And dzalika refers both to ALIM and al-kitab.
Now, al-kitab can mean a written book (scripture). But it can also mean, in my opinion, the order / law /decree of the universe. That's why HIS signs are everywhere; everything is created by an order -- HIS order/law; and because there is only One GOD and Quran is from GOD, Quran should be able to explain the order/law of the universe.
So, hypothetically, 21-2 can be read as...
Pain;
That is the order/law/decree in which there is no doubt, as a guidance to the muttaqiin (those who exercise taqwa).I have to be honest here. One of my best friends is a dedicated, practicing Buddhist. So I know about Dukkha (literally can be translated as pain or suffering). And the Buddha teaches to annihilate suffering by knowing The Truth.
Reading 21-2 in the light of Dukkha sure is interesting for me. It's almost like GOD knows that we are suffering (physically or spiritually or both). That's why Quran was sent down -- to release us from this pain/suffering. Either by looking at the written version of al-kitab, or the unwritten version of it which is all around us.
Again, this is just hypothetical. Don't take it too seriously alrite?
wasalaam,
=adley= -
Salaam mquran,
Thanks for the swift reply.
Yes, I have to also make sure that the suggested meaning should fit in every Surah that begins with Alif Lam Mim.
And yes, I agree that 3 letters probably means there is 3 significant 'things' that ultimately can be treated as one concept. It's just my opinion.
Allah Knows Best of course.Btw, does ALif Lam Mim in Surah 2 must be exactly the same (in meaning) as in Surah 3? What do you think?
Wasalaam,
=adley=