sex before marriage
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SaLaM Taj
I can tell you from my experiance. The worst people have some sense of morals. But this does not justify what they are doing. Would you allow ur daughter to have sex outside marriage with a willing man simply becoz she is desperate? Or would u rather do it on her own in her own privacy?
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Salaam Sis Taj,
You said I find our customs revolve around men.
Might that be the reason that you defend the prostitute women?
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Salaam Taj,
the book you talk about is 'le pain nu' in French - i read it but so long ago i don't remember that part...
If i say "no better (or worse)" it's also coz for sure i can't judge the person - don't know her life, what brought this person to do this...only god can. I only talk about the act itself - giving and receiving sex for money.
Taj
Abusing? Do you mean taking advantage? Well, if he is not offending her or transgressing, then that is between those two people and God.A man knowing that a woman is forced into prostitution - being by other men or poverty - is taking advantage of her. If he wished to be clean, he should give her saddaqa instead - and still, may be even saddaqa would go in the hands of her pimp... I'm not talking about the author of the book in love with the prostitute...this is fiction, even though real life often is above fiction
LK
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SaLaM Taj
No im asking a general question. What would u rather happen. Your dauther/son going out and having sex simply becoz she/he is desperate. Or she/he doing it her/his self in her/his own privacy? If she/he came and asked u for advice, what would you tell her/him ?
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Salaam all,
I just want to say that desperation after food is totally different than the desperation after sex.
God are telling the unmarried people to be chaste and patient so if they have sex outside marriage with a whore or a virgin the crime is the same it is pure zina.
Can people not be patient when they are single then they'll have to study Quran or something that will make them to focus on something important.
Peace
Sister Majidah -
Salam Majidah,
Sister Majidah, you asked me
I will kindly ask you if you enjoy and like your countries customs!?
I'm not either quite sure which country you are living in, is it SA?
and I answered you
I find our customs revolve around men.
I gave to Elke an example of the way well-wishers say to the groom in the wedding night
"From you the money, from her the children." -
Salaam Sis Taj,
But that is awful how men in your country are using women for their own damn needs.
How can you live there!?
Can't you live somewhere else sister!?
No stupid man will ever use or fool me.
We females have to become stronger and beat the men up.
Ok, not all men is bad there are wonderful men too D
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Salaam Sis Taj,
I guess I wouldn't live long in your country, I'm afraid!
Men don't like women who think on their own shock
Take Care!
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Not just to hide. They can be very open about it. It can be 'quranic city whore centre' and no one has the right to enter and kick them out. However, im assuming such a centre would run out business pronto because in that city, no one really wants that sort of thing!
Prostitution is the oldest Profession in the world. This is hardly likely to happen! Sex is a biological need. Men and women will always meet this need either through marriage, prostitution or illicit affairs...
Regards,
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Salaamun alaikum,
Elke Sure i don't share mqurans understanding on forgiveness on the compeller which is real strange! Unless we havn't gotten him right ?
What about it mquran ?The key word in that phrase is 'min ba'da ikrihinna' (lit. 'from after thier compulsion') which indicates that the compulsion isn't there anymore. They stopped doing it, then Allah is ready to give them maghfirah.
KGBThank you very much for your reponse.
You're welcome. Hope it helped.
Taj Sex outside marriage is Zina.
Compare this with what this person said yesterday
If married
people engage in sex from outside the marriage, this is Zina
.Now the tune is, despite the obvious sin of prostitution, its ok under compulsion whereas previously, it was
Prostition is sex for money and as long as there are men who are willing to pay for it and there are women who need that money then that job will continue to exist.
Is prostitution a Zina? They are two different things although both involve sex. Al Zina is a Fa7ishah as described in Al Quran. Al Bighaa'a is not identified as such. There are desperate people in this world who cannot afford to marry but can buy some desperately needed satisfactions and Allah understands perfectly. There are limits to this fullfilment, and those who exceed those limits will have Allah waiting for themSo now we have moved from 'prostution is ok, forcing women into is not' and 'zinaa is for married people only' to 'prostitution is wrong, but ok under compulsion' to 'zina is sex outside the marriage'
Tomorrow, you'll all be told something else entirely. Do watch out. The danger of these internet discussions is people can claim to be all sorts of things and hide behind the Arabic nativeness and claiming authority over the language. Ask any Arab you meet what 'as-salaat' or 'ibadah' is and check it against al-quraan. You will then see that hiding behind Arabic nativeness is pure drivel. Arabic has been mutilated so badly that original Quranic meanings can only be obtained from one place (no, its your manuscripts, Jaxal)
LTrostitution is the oldest Profession in the world. This is hardly likely to happen! Sex is a biological need. Men and women will always meet this need either through marriage, prostitution or illicit affairs...
I believe in a society of believers, they won't because believers understand God's system which will invoke peace, salaam.
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As Salaam Alaikum Taj,
Has it not occured to you that maybe the verse 2433 is speaking in regards to the men who will only allow her freedom if they have sex with them?
Also if Allah says in the verse that he will forgive the girls who are in forced into prostution... what makes you think that prostitution is ok? Why would Allah forgive people for things that are legal? We only ask for forgiveness when we sin and do the bad deeds.
Also I would like to make it clear to you that this is NOT rape. Rape victims aren't those of sin in such cases..... but this deals with girls who are in situation of desperation and have no toher choices but to do it, and even despite their situaotin, we can see that prostituoin is still a sin becuase Allah says that he forgives the girls who are compelled to do it.
salaam
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Salam NoProgressive,
Has it not occured to you that maybe the verse 2433 is speaking in regards to the men who will only allow her freedom if they have sex with them?
I don't see in the Ayah anything about sex as a price to freedom.Also if Allah says in the verse that he will forgive the girls who are in forced into prostution... what makes you think that prostitution is ok? Why would Allah forgive people for things that are legal? We only ask for forgiveness when we sin and do the bad deeds.
The sin is when those women put their bodies in harm's way. The sin is when Allah gives you something i.e. your body, your health, your children, etc and then you don't take care of it. Some desperate people would sell their children, others would sell their kidneys, etc..
The thing is those women know that what they are doing is not right for themsleves but they are desperate.Also I would like to make it clear to you that this is NOT rape. Rape victims aren't those of sin in such cases..... but this deals with girls who are in situation of desperation and have no toher choices but to do it, and even despite their situaotin, we can see that prostituoin is still a sin becuase Allah says that he forgives the girls who are compelled to do it.
salaam
Thank you.
Women in such situations not only feel bad about themsleves for the tough choices they have to make, but also they feel guilty and so they are also in desperate need of reassurance from their Creator, the Best knowing of their situation. Allah reassures them and grants them mercy and forgiveness, without conditions = no mentioning of Tawbah. -
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Salaam,
This is a terrible thread!! evil
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If anybody comes to me and asks me for my advice, I will direct them to Al Quran and advice them to check what Allah says about their situation, whatever their situation is. I am in no position to control or judge or blame. That is all.
Better make sure it's 'al-quran as translated by the prostitutes association of arabia' . Only then can it verify the nonsense you spoke of.
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I believe in a society of believers, they won't because believers understand God's system which will invoke peace, salaam.
Yes, even believers have biological need for sex! -)
Even the Mullahs with long beards like sex very much!
And the ones I know usually have 9 or 10 kids!Regards,
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Peace,
I have not read the whole thread but I have my personal understanding that I would like to share.
To my knowledge marriage as defined in the book is simply a commitement between two people with two witnesses (I am unsure about who these witnesses must be, but I am going to assume two human beings, obviously not the man and woman but people outside the relationship because then it would be a secret love affair between two sneaky people)!
Just because society has made many rituals for this union that does not mean that they are authorised by Divine law, from my experience these are all just traditions and practices made by men and are not a necessity in uniting two people.
Thats my view, its not anti-tradition or outlawish, it is just an observation I have made, i have not seen any kind of formal traditions which are necessary.
There is the concept of 'dowry' to be included too for protection of the woman. So after all this you have to see if you have met the guidelines to continue onto the next stage.
Nural