CONCLUSION OF THE SWINE DEBATE
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Again, per ayat 6145, you are assuming that lahma khinzeer means the specie of animal the pig. I contend that, per ayat 6146, this cannot be so, because the haram species of animals...all have claws, which, of course, the pig does not.
Ayat is about prohibitions specific to the jews due to their rebellion.
Ayat is about prohibitions availing to all mankind due to uncleanness.These are 2 different things.
The pig has been prohibited to the jews, not because of their rebellion, but because of its uncleanness.
Assuming khinzeer is pig, there is no contradiction between and .
JM So, as you can see, is not exhaustive about the food restrictions to the jews. There are also food restrictions to them in .
Tell you what, post the entire (name them) list of animals which Allah made haram to Jews, since you believe, despite what Allah says, that what is contained in ayat 6146, relative to haram species of animals, is not exhaustive.
What do you want as a supplement to what I have already listed above ?
i.e.- As a punishment for their rebellion ()
- all that have claws
- the fat of the cattle and the sheep (except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone)
- As it is foul (|6145])
- what is already dead
- blood
- lahma khinzeerin (the flesh of swine)
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4171&start=100#61337
Peace
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Then you would be wrong and very unfair of you to say that.
I guess arab conspiracies are hot and swine conspiracies are not. No matter.
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see following post.
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Again, per ayat 6145, you are assuming that lahma khinzeer means the specie of animal the pig. I contend that, per ayat 6146, this cannot be so, because the haram species of animals...all have claws, which, of course, the pig does not.
JM Ayat is about prohibitions specific to the jews due to their rebellion.
Not only is ayat 6146 about specif things made haram, but the specific species of animal made haram by Allah, are only those with claws (why do you continue to ignore this fact?!), which, of course, excludes the animal pig. Is this not correct, yes or no?
The pig has been prohibited to the jews, not because of their rebellion, but because of its uncleanness.
When did Allah make the pig haram to the Jews, before or after Moses?
Assuming khinzeer is pig, there is no contradiction between and .
LOL! well, the fact that it doesn't mean pig, creates a contradiction. Allah made haram to the Jews animals with claws and seeing how pigs do not have claws, khinzeer, cannot possibly be pig, because that creates a contradiction.
JM So, as you can see, is not exhaustive about the food restrictions to the jews. There are also food restrictions to them in .
DHULQARNANETell you what, post the entire (name them) list of animals which Allah made haram to Jews, since you believe, despite what Allah says, that what is contained in ayat 6146, relative to haram species of animals, is not exhaustive.
Why do you want as a supplement to what I have already listed above ?
i.e.- As a punishment for their rebellion ()
- all that have claws
- the fat of the cattle and the sheep (except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone)
My request is...provide an exhaustive list of other species of animals made haram to the Jews. You cannot claim that the pig was ever haram to the Jews, because as a specie of animal, it is among the species of animals that don't have claws. Thus, Allah, could not have made the pig haram, because as with the sheep and ox ( remember, the sheep and oxen were not haram...just their fat), it too, as a specie animal, has.... hooves and not claws (sheep, goats, oxen, cows, pigs etc. do not have claws and that is why their sepcies were not haram to the Jews. Is this correct, yes or no.
Shahm/fat, although made haram to the Jews, is NOT A SPECIE OF ANIMAL. All species of animals both land and sea which possessed claws were haram to the Jews. Ayat 6146 is making entire species of animals haram due t their having claws and making a particular part of two halal animals, the fat. Specific to the Jews then, the pig is not represented in either of these two groups. Is this correct, yes or no.
Ayat 6145 cannot undo what constitutes a specie of animal, hence, khinzeer, in ayat 6145, cannot mean the specie animal pig, becuase then there would be a contradiction between 6146 and 645.
Looking to your reply.
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Salam PBM,
Not only is ayat 6146 about specif things made haram, but the specific species of animal made haram by Allah, are only those with claws (why do you continue to ignore this fact?!), which, of course, excludes the animal pig. Is this not correct, yes or no?
Khi- Show me the word "ONLY" in 6146. GOD Bless!
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here is my final refute, now this refute was not talked about before and I believe there will be no response to it
first of all, the verse 6146 never said animals with claws, THIS IS THE WRONG TRANSLATION FOR SURE
(146)
the arabic word " " CAN NOT BE TRANSLATED AS CLAW, THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT WRONG TRANSLATION
Claw means in arabic "", I"M 100% positive
The arabic word " " SHOULD BE TRANSLATED AS "NAIL", this is what it means in arabic, YOU CAN CHECK THIS WITH ANY ARABIC SPEAKER
now a hoof (divided or not) or a claw (long or not sharp or not) IS A BLOODY NAIL " ", and because the pig has a nail (on the form of divided hoof) IT WAS FORIBIDDENON THE JEW IN THE QURAN
and the same verse tell us that Allah allowed them to eat The fat of the ox and the sheep (Fat Only) (because these aninals also have nails and) so Allah explained to them what they can eat from a couple of animals with NAILS (OX and sheep), they could also been eaten fish because the fish do not have nails
you have been refuted PB, as I don't care what you read in english THIS QURAN IS AN ARABIC QURAN
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DO PIGS HAVE CLAWS...yes or no?
Maybe they have...
The accessory, or dew, claws have short conical horn capsules. Those of the pig are quite well developed.
http//137.222.110.150/calnet/Lfoot/page3.htm -
Salam Ahmad Bahgat,
and the same verse tell us that Allah allowed them to eat The fat of the ox and the sheep (Fat Only) (because these aninals also have nails and) so Allah explained to them what they can eat from a couple of animals with NAILS (OX and sheep), they could also been eaten fish because the fish do not have nails
Khi- Im sorry to say but you got this the other way around. GOD FORBADE THE FAT of the oxen and sheep NOT THEIR MEAT so this wont be a valid argument. GOD Bless!
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Salam Ahmad Bahgat,
and the same verse tell us that Allah allowed them to eat The fat of the ox and the sheep (Fat Only) (because these aninals also have nails and) so Allah explained to them what they can eat from a couple of animals with NAILS (OX and sheep), they could also been eaten fish because the fish do not have nails
Khi- Im sorry to say but you got this the other way around. GOD FORBADE THE FAT of the oxen and sheep NOT THEIR MEAT so this wont be a valid argument. GOD Bless!
I absolutely agree bro, I'm using the same rational to suit that guy rational who obviously does not understand the Quran and totally reject the Torah while he should not do that
my logic stand bro but only against his flawed logic, I'm positive
peace be with you man, also I have a lot of question regarding code 19 and sura 9 please let me know when you are ready
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Salam Ahmed Bahgat,
peace be with you man, also I have a lot of question regarding code 19 and sura 9 please let me know when you are ready
Khi- Please first go through all of the articles/websites i posted. Ill then take your qs next week GW. GOD Bless!
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Salam Ahmed Bahgat,
peace be with you man, also I have a lot of question regarding code 19 and sura 9 please let me know when you are ready
Khi- Please first go through all of the articles/websites i posted. Ill then take your qs next week GW. GOD Bless!
bro i spent all last night reading all these stuff, I'm a reading addict
talk to you next week
peace
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Salam Ahmed Bahgat,
peace be with you man, also I have a lot of question regarding code 19 and sura 9 please let me know when you are ready
Khi- Please first go through all of the articles/websites i posted. Ill then take your qs next week GW. GOD Bless!
bro i spent all last night reading all these stuff, I'm a reading addict
talk to you next week
peace
Khi- Salam. All the five lessons?! Amazing. I hope you read everything carefully and not just skimmed through the article. Ok see you next week then GW. GOD Bless!
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here is my final refute, now this refute was not talked about before and I believe there will be no response to it
first of all, the verse 6146 never said animals with claws, THIS IS THE WRONG TRANSLATION FOR SURE
the arabic word " " CAN NOT BE TRANSLATED AS CLAW, THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT WRONG TRANSLATION
Claw means in arabic "", I"M 100% positive
The arabic word " " SHOULD BE TRANSLATED AS "NAIL", this is what it means in arabic, YOU CAN CHECK THIS WITH ANY ARABIC SPEAKER
now a hoof (divided or not) or a claw (long or not sharp or not) IS A BLOODY NAIL " ", and because the pig has a nail (on the form of divided hoof) IT WAS FORIBIDDENON THE JEW IN THE QURAN
and the same verse tell us that Allah allowed them to eat The fat of the ox and the sheep (Fat Only) (because these aninals also have nails and) so Allah explained to them what they can eat from a couple of animals with NAILS (OX and sheep), they could also been eaten fish because the fish do not have nails
you have been refuted PB, as I don't care what you read in english THIS QURAN IS AN ARABIC QURAN
Oh, I see, so thufr means nail and all species of animals with nails, except the two mentioned--sheep and oxen, are haram, is this really your position/refutation? rotfl Well, if thufr means nail, as you claim, then, cows, goats, rams, deer, elk, seals, turtles, sheep, oxen, etc. were also haram, because they have nails...is this really your position/refutation?, because if it is, you better rethink it. rotfl
Btw, genius, it was the FAT of the oxen and sheep which was made haram and not anything else, got it? If thufr meant nail and all animals with nails were haram to the Jews, but the sheep and oxen were the exceptions, then, Allah, would have stated that they were the exceptions in this regard. Allah, however, made no such exception and you are absolutely making this nonsense up.
You, see, the more you talk, the more you expose your foolishness. lol
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Khi- Im sorry to say but you got this the other way around. GOD FORBADE THE FAT of the oxen and sheep NOT THEIR MEAT so this wont be a valid argument. GOD Bless!
I absolutely agree bro, I'm using the same rational to suit that guy rational who obviously does not understand the Quran and totally reject the Torah while he should not do that
my logic stand bro but only against his flawed logic, I'm positive
Even IDMKHIZIR, pointed out your completely misunderstanding what, in regard to the sheep and oxen was haram, so what are talking about? The Torah, is not the book of guidance to mankind and it is flawed.
Answer the following, if you have any knowledge/faith at all wink
WHICH BOOK IS WITHOUT DOUBT, ERROR, FLAW, CONTRADICTION, IS THE FINAL WAHY/GUIDANCE TO MANKIND
A. AL-QURAN
B. THE TORAH
Which is it...mate? lol
rotfl who are you kiddding? rotfl
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PB you are a joke if you ask me this question, but let me pretend to answer it
the answer is A lol
but hey, B must be also considered and believed in its uncorrupted passages as THE QURAN TOLD US, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE VERSES OR YOU WILL RUN LIKE A RAT?
How we know it is uncorrupted?, BY COMPARING IT TO THE UNCORRUPTED AND COMPLETE QURAN
lol lol
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I know what I'm doing, however, you, as evidenced by your latest screw-up, are clueless as to what you are doing rotfl
If we've met on other boards, well, you were just as foolish and I crushed you there as well...mate lol
True motives being written freely and without inhibition.
Keep exposing yourself.
The LOLs and ROTFLs are pretty lame really. Grow up.
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"AhmedBahgat"]
the answer is A lol
Well, genius, if A. is the answer, then why do you continue to take the Torah over Al-Quran? Allah says in Al-Quran that...He made clawed species of animals haram to the Jews, well, pigs don't have claws, thus, Al-Quran, is refuting the tampered Torah as to exactly what species of animals Allah made to the Jews--not animals with hooves, but animals with claws. Btw, thufr cannot mean nail, because Jews eat beef/cows which, according to your "definition nd logic", have nails as do pigs. So, if pigs and cows both have nails, then the cow was also hara to the Jews...are you really gong to stand by your silly and un-Quranic position that, thufr, in ayat 6146, means nail? rotfl
Are you getting this yet?...mate wink
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... why ... take the Torah over Al-Quran? Allah says in Al-Quran that...He made clawed species of animals haram to the Jews, well, pigs don't have claws, thus, Al-Quran, is refuting the tampered Torah as to exactly what species of animals Allah made to the Jews
Another gem from DULL_IQ...
The ancient Jews' were wrong to accept their Torah over the Quran which came thousands of years later.
Maybe they needed a time machine or someone like DULL... in their midst screaming "Guys, guys... ignore the Torah! You can eat pigs! Trust me they're good! They don't have claws!"
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... why ... take the Torah over Al-Quran? Allah says in Al-Quran that...He made clawed species of animals haram to the Jews, well, pigs don't have claws, thus, Al-Quran, is refuting the tampered Torah as to exactly what species of animals Allah made to the Jews
Another gem from DULL_IQ...
The ancient Jews' were wrong to accept their Torah over the Quran which came thousands of years later.
Maybe they needed a time machine or someone like DULL... in their midst screaming "Guys, guys... ignore the Torah! You can eat pigs! Trust me they're good! They don't have claws!"
My God, you don't even know what time period is being discussed shock
truth, give yourself a rest lol
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... why ... take the Torah over Al-Quran? Allah says in Al-Quran that...He made clawed species of animals haram to the Jews, well, pigs don't have claws, thus, Al-Quran, is refuting the tampered Torah as to exactly what species of animals Allah made to the Jews
"Guys, guys... ignore the Torah! You can eat pigs! Trust me they're good! They don't have claws!"
... you ... know what ... is being discussed
Yes I do.