Is swine halal-2?
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WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB?
PB, what do you think of the following thought ?
If the universe could guide on its own, then the messengers and books would not have been necessary. Only Allah is sufficient as a guide and He guides mankind through His Quran.
The meaning of this sentence is that, there is no proof that, with your reason only, you can guide yourself on the right path.
If your reason was sufficient as a guide, God would not have sent messengers to the humankind.
Please remember you have been created by God. God knows your limitations, he knows the limitations of the human mind.
Beware not to take your reason as a god besides God, like the atheists do.Peace
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Salaamun alaikum Nadia,
I brought this up on the original thread...it's no use really...we've gone through all the motions, it's like talking to an automaton set on DENY.
Hehe, you coulda told me this earlier! Saved me a lot of time . No no, I actually feel good that this is out in the open. Really helped me to see how al-quraan protects its meaning. Subhanallah.
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Salaamun alaikum Nadia,
I brought this up on the original thread...it's no use really...we've gone through all the motions, it's like talking to an automaton set on DENY.
Hehe, you coulda told me this earlier! Saved me a lot of time . No no, I actually feel good that this is out in the open. Really helped me to see how al-quraan protects its meaning. Subhanallah.
Plz check out this page
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4031&start=625 -
Peace Mq,
Well, the Priest can go back to his church of oink if he likes. Im done.
Hahaha...that and the cassock one, you're on fire!! lol
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Mquran, JM, Savage C.,
Your above ad hominem posts will not deliver you from the reality that, per this to discussion, you have absoultely no idea of what you are talking about, and, as a result of your indivdual and collective grand ignorance on this subject, none of you have not been able to prove your superstitious notion that the pig is haram as food for mankind, hence, the following ayats will continue to keep their heels embedded deep in the back of your necks. None of you have been able to overcome them. Your last gasp, Savage and JM, was your grammar conjecture and now that that has failed you, what is your excuse for stubbornly remaining in obvious superstition?...nothing but self-pity and pride.
4160 For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah's Way;-
51 O you who believe! fulfill the obligations. The quadrupedS are allowed to you except that which is recited to you, not violating the prohibition against game when you are entering upon the performance of the pilgrimage; surely Allah orders what He desires.
55 This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them...
6146 And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.
The above ayats, without a doubt, PROVE that the pig was never haram, nor is it haram today, for mankind.
NEITHER OF YOU , TO DATE, HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER THE FOLLOWING
WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU PEOPLE, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE, OTHERWISE, YOU ARE BLIND FOLLOWING (in violation of ayat 1736). STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
And, until you people, by way of Al-Quran, prove your assertion that the pig is haram by giving us Allah's reason for it, then you are only conjecturing and following conjecture as truth (in total violation of ayat 1736), hence, you are assigning a lie to Allah and His Deen. Allah, so that you know it, curses those who assign lies/conjectures to Him
1118 And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah? These shall be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses shall say These are they who lied against their Lord. Now surely the curse of Allah is on the unjust.
You people really look bad, do you know that? You people sound like Apple Pie, trying to defend the superstition known as--Christianity.
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Im done.
LOL!...I told you this several days ago, but you didn't believe me lol.
Knowing that you cannot prove why the pig, according to Al-Quran, is haram/not tayyib, if you continue to misguide yourself and others by still claiming that the pig is haram/not tayyib without knowing why, then you are insulting Allah and His Quran, because you are following conjecture which He condemns.
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Peace mquran,
Everything that the Quran mentions pertaining to our lives, whether grammatically correct or simply the Quran states so, has a REASON, such as gambling, alcoholism, fornication, lying, theft, conjecture, etc., etc. Each of these categories has grave concerns, one way or the other, and PROVEN detrimental.
Oh agreed. There must be a reason certainly.
Then what is the reason certainly for pig?s meat being restricted? If its rijsun, then WHY is it rijsun? Ask yourself this pertinent question since you agreed that everything that the Quran mentions pertaining to our lives/nature/system/law, MUST have a reason. Without any reason or justificaiton, the Quranic message and our purpose of living a life as per its injunctions/jurisdictions would be meaningless. If one doesn?t know, then one mustn?t assign certainty to what is uncertain/doubtful/unknown.
Pig?s meat/flesh is KNOWN to provide food for millions across our globe WITHOUT ANY CONSEQUENCES, medically, scientifically and logically. What else is left to talk about??grammar and GOD said so?..not a wise and intellectual bearing.
However, let me ask you, if you don't know the reason fornication is bad, will you fornicate?
The consequences of wrongdoings of whatever nature are experienced by its actions, by reflecting upon our very own and others past and present, and by reason, heed, intellect and wisdom to know the difference. Not to mention that maturity plays an important role. Hope this will answer your question.
3/7 tells us that ar-rasikhu fil ilm /those grounded in knowledge will say even of the mutashabih that they believe in fully without seeing it's ta'wil.
The question of mutashabih doesn't arise since the verses pertaining to khinzeer are straightforward.
Oh agreed. There must be a reason certainly
I don't know why pork is rijsun. But I trust God.
Speaks for itself. GOD has entrusted upon us to KNOW the difference between pork being rijsun and iill-seeming meat being rijsun by its very nature. Clear as daylight and I am not a blind follower.
If you want to make up language as you go along, again, that's your business.
Language has no basis for extrapolations, dubious understanding and grammatical confinements in which it speaks but logical reasoning by the message it carries.
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Peace to you Danish,
Then what is the reason certainly for pigs meat being restricted? If its rijsun, then WHY is it rijsun? Ask yourself this pertinent question since you agreed that everything that the Quran mentions pertaining to our lives/nature/system/law, MUST have a reason. Without any reason or justificaiton, the Quranic message and our purpose of living a life as per its injunctions/jurisdictions would be meaningless. If one doesnt know, then one mustnt assign certainty to what is uncertain/doubtful/unknown.
Once again, I do not know the biological reason. However, I don't want to disobey Allah just because I don't know.
This said, I'm sure now that the meaning of lahumul khizineer is the meat of the pig. If that's the certainty of information you're talking about, then I am certain now.
Pigs meat/flesh is KNOWN to provide food for millions across our globe WITHOUT ANY CONSEQUENCES, medically, scientifically and logically. What else is left to talk aboutgrammar and GOD said so..not a wise and intellectual bearing.
So if GOD SAID SO doesn't have an intellectual bearing, chuck the book out. If you think you're smarter than the author , thats your business You might find better support in an athiest scientists forum though.
Well, if you're happy to disemphasise al-quraan, that's your business. As for 'without any consequences', I don't know until I actually study the field.
Millions of people fornicate all over the place too. No bolts of lightning come down onto their behinds. So maybe az-zinaa means something else too, do you think ?
Millions of people eat blood-related products. Have you met any of them ? They dont seem to complain too much either. So why not go enjoy a blood pudding this morning.
The consequences of wrongdoings of whatever nature are experienced by its actions, by reflecting upon our very own and others past and present, and by reason, heed, intellect and wisdom to know the difference. Not to mention that maturity plays an important role. Hope this will answer your question.
No it doesn't because you used the 'millions of people eat pork without problems' as an argument. Funnily, the time factor or any other factor doesn't come into play there. Not very objective, my science-loving friend.
The question of mutashabih doesn't arise since the verses pertaining to khinzeer are straightforward
You only made the above statement becuase of your very careless attitude towards al-quraan. Does 'ayat' just mean 'verses' ? 'Ayat' also pertains to signs in our lives and in our psyches. The verses about lahumul khizneer are straightforward but the confirming ayaat in the world (tashbih = similar) is something I havent checked.
Speaks for itself. GOD has entrusted upon us to KNOW the difference between pork being rijsun and iill-seeming meat being rijsun by its very nature. Clear as daylight and I am not a blind follower.
Good for you. I don't know why its haram beyond the fact that its rijsun. The 'ill-seeming' nonsense has no linguistic basis in al-quraan.
Language has no basis for extrapolations, dubious understanding and grammatical confinements in which it speaks but logical reasoning by the message it carries.
Logical reasoning ? like 'millions of ppl eat it without problem' kind of logic. Gimme a break. You don't believe in the book Danish so stop pretending. You believe in science as if its objective but science has its own chosen epistemology. You're in the wrong forum, honestly.
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Salaam all,
I know I shouldn't interrupt you guys but I can't resist
What I'm thinking is that God never mention anything about to slaughter a pig but to slaughter cattles are mentioned.
And think also that the pig stand alone, away from the cattles.The cattles eat grass but the pig eat whatever it founds to eat.
The pig is very looking like the humanbeings in it's metabolism, an embryo of a pig is looking very alike an embryo of an human.
I have thought about this many years ago and then it came up this about that we can use organs like liver and kidneys from pigs.
That's amazing so I think that we shouldn't choose to eat an animal who is too close to us.
I'm very fanatic about what I eat or not, but I respect the reading and do respect that people want to eat meat even if I don't want it.
But to eat as a first choice the pig cannot be recommend because remember that God has give us the cattles to slaughter and eat and they are clean because they don't eat meat.Well I know I just rambling but I guess there are many signs that Pig isn't a good choice.And their meat is more fat than other animals so it's an health issue too.
But I must say that i wonder how people can eat birds!?
Birds are very unclean and they eat whatever they like like the pigs, I have seen chickens eat poo.And aren't the birds from the very beginning a reptile!?
Oh I guess I will stay vegetarian for the rest of my life, a better and healthier choice indeed.
Why argue about what meat to eat when there are thousands of fruits and vegetables to eat shock
And if it will come an disaster of some kind and we can't find food, then God has already point out that we can eat of that ill-seemings so we can survive.
Peace Sis Maria
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Salaam Br Jaxal,
Well maybe I will sooner or later also drop the fish
I can found omega 3 and omega 6 in other food, I know there shall be an vegetable oil can't remeber its name now.
Peace Sis Maria
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DANISH Then what is the reason certainly for pig?s meat being restricted? If its rijsun, then WHY is it rijsun? Ask yourself this pertinent question since you agreed that everything that the Quran mentions pertaining to our lives/nature/system/law, MUST have a reason. Without any reason or justificaiton, the Quranic message and our purpose of living a life as per its injunctions/jurisdictions would be meaningless.
If one doesn?t know, then one mustn?t assign certainty to what is uncertain/doubtful/unknown.
mquran Once again, I do not know the biological reason. However, I don't want to disobey Allah just because I don't know. I DON"T KNOW WHY its haram beyond THE FACT that its rijsun.
LOL! You don't know why, but what you are claiming is a...FACT nonetheless LOL!. Can't even YOU, see the glaring contradiction of your statement? A FACT is known and provable reality, yet, you admit that you don't know! My God, man, aren't you tired of going on record with such nonsense? Why you are so impervious to reason is simply stunning. One more time, see if you can grasp thisvery, very, simple command of Allah
1736 And DO NOT follow that of which you have NO KNOWLEDGE; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.
What part of DON"T, do you not understand and find so challenging that, you refuse to accept its obvious meaning? Twice now you've admitted that you don't now why the pig is rijsun, that it just is, hence, in absolute disdain of ayat 1736, you take as guidance something you which you have NO KNOWLEDGE/cannot prove.
One more time see if you can grasp thisvery, very, simple command of Allah
733 Say the things that my Lord hath indeed made haram are shameful deeds...and saying things about Allah of which you have NO KNOWLEDGE.
What part of the above abbreviated ayat DON"T, do you not understand and find so challenging that, you refuse to accept its obvious meaning? Allah, clearly, is telling you NOT to ascribe, assign, associate, say about etc., anything about Him of which you have no KNOWLEDGE/CERTITUDE, yet in absolute disdain of ayat 733, you say of Allal something of which you which you have NO KNOWLEDGE/CERTITUDE, because if you did, you would be able to, by way of Al-Quran, prove your assertion that the pig is rijsun. Allah, per the above ayats, demands this of you, otherwise, you and your superstition, become gods to be follow in derogation of Him.
2124 Or have they taken for worship gods besides Him? Say, "Bring your convincing proof this is the Message of those with me and the Message of those before me." But most of them know not the Truth, and so turn away.
Main Entry a GOD a person or thingof supreme value.
Main Entry GUIDE person or thing that leads or directs another's way a person who directs another's conduct or course of life to direct in a way or course to direct, supervise, or influence usually to a particular end to superintend the training or instruction of.
I truly suggest that you contemplate the above ayat 2124 and definitions, as well as, review and grasp the meanings of the following terms, because NONE of them pertains to your claim that pig is, by the Word or Allah, haram. The terms, along with Al-Quran, condemns your conjecture and puts you, Marie, S. Carrot, Jaxal, and Tanveer, in absolute/direct opposition to Allah. You are indeed mighty and bold ones.
Main Entry ALAMA/ILM to distinguish sign science knowledge to know something positively, to recognise, to know the reality to the extent of certainty, to feel, to find out definitely.
Main Entry KNOW be certain of.
Main Entry CERTAIN/CERTITUDE KNOWN/PROVED TO BE TRUE INDISPUTABLE, dependable, reliable.
Main Entry KNOWLEDGE the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.
Main Entry POSITIVE not speculative incontestable independent of changing circumstances
Main Entry FACT the quality of being actual something that has actual existence a piece of information presented as having objective reality- in fact in truth.
Main Entry ACTUAL existing in fact or reality not false or apparent.
Main EntryTRUTH the state of being the case fact the body of real things, events, and facts actuality.
Main EntryREAL not artificial, fraudulent, illusory, not apparent occurring in fact.
Main Entry DEFINITIVE serving to define or specify precisely.
Logical reasoning ? like 'millions of ppl eat it without problem' kind of logic. Gimme a break. You don't believe in the book Danish so stop pretending. You believe in science as if its objective but science has its own chosen epistemology. You're in the wrong forum, honestly
.Quite to the contrary...it is you and the others, who do not believe in Al-Quran and the above ayats and definitions, beyond any shadow of a doubt, proves that. You people, at least on this subject anyway, are blind followers and conjecturers. Allah condemns blind following, that is, believing in and following " I don't knows"; "I thinks"; "my opinion", as if they are truths. Allah, also condems believing in and following conjecture and superstition/jibt, but I guess you don't accept any of this, oh well.
mquran wrote Well, the Priest can go back to his church of oink if he likes..
Savage_Carrot wrote Hahaha...that and the cassock one, you're on fire!!
As it stands now, vis a vis you and S. Carrot and this subject, the pig, by far, is the more intellient being, because it surrenders to Allahs laws...you two do not ( ayats 733, 1736, 4160, 51, 55, and 6146)...). wink And let me add this, if you two continue to support and promulgate superstition, which arises from the rejection of ayats 733, 1736 and 2124, when you leave this you will be on fire!scared ...a word to the wise is...sufficient wink.
Main Entry SUPERSTITION a notion maintained despite evidence to contrary a belief or practice resulting from ignorance or a false conception of causation.
Ayat 1736, if understood and practiced, is a firewall against superstition.
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scared
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Salaam,
Nailbitings oh don't be scared!!!! D
Peace sis Maria
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scared
Indeed, and its getting scarier. The effects of Halloween season.wink
Once again, I do not know the biological reason. However, I don't want to disobey Allah just because I don't know.
Well, if you're happy to disemphasise al-quraan, that's your business. As for 'without any consequences', I don't know until I actually study the field.
Millions of people fornicate all over the place too. No bolts of lightning come down onto their behinds. So maybe az-zinaa means something else too, do you think ?
Millions of people eat blood-related products. Have you met any of them ? They dont seem to complain too much either. So why not go enjoy a blood pudding this morning.
You only made the above statement becuase of your very careless attitude towards al-quraan. Does 'ayat' just mean 'verses' ? 'Ayat' also pertains to signs in our lives and in our psyches. The verses about lahumul khizneer are straightforward but the confirming ayaat in the world (tashbih = similar) is something I havent checked.
Good for you. I don't know why its haram beyond the fact that its rijsun. The 'ill-seeming' nonsense has no linguistic basis in al-quraan.
The guy has gone nuts. Height of ignorance seems to be his livelihood. Indeed very scary and wicked when such display of bliss-less and baseless arguments are demonstrated to claim the knowledge of Quran, hence trying to lead the masses into blindness/dead-ends.
2246 Did they not roam the earth, then use their minds to understand, and use their ears to hear? Indeed, the real blindness is not the blindness of the eyes, but the blindness of the hearts inside the chests.
639 Those who reject our proofs are deaf and dumb, in total darkness.
308 Why do they not reflect on themselves? GOD did not create the heavens and the earth, and everything between them, except for a specific purpose, and for a specific life span. However, most people, with regard to meeting their Lord, are disbelievers.
4513 He committed in your service everything in the heavens and the earth; all from Him. These are proofs for people who reflect.
8817 Why do they not reflect on the camels and how they are created?
626 They repel others from this, as they themselves stay away from it, and thus, they only destroy themselves without perceiving.
1591 They accept the Quran only partially.
You're in the wrong forum, honestly.
In that case, you?re on the wrong planet, as ignorant as you are of life and yet claiming to know the Quran with "I don't know's" and "just because's".
NO WHERE IN THE QURAN DOES IT MENTION TO BELIEVE IN IT JUST BECUASE IT SAYS SO.
1436 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.NOTHING IN THE QURAN IS WITHOUT A REASON. You and a few others have absolutely NO REASON to believe that pigs are bad/evil/infected by nature and hence forbidden. It is you who do not contemplate on life/nature/system, hence comprehend the Quran seriously and are pretty much satisfied/confined by its "grammar" and because "GOD said so".
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PEACE, DANISH,
NOTHING IN THE QURAN IS WITHOUT A REASON. You and a few others have absolutely NO REASON to believe that pigs are bad/evil/infected by nature and hence forbidden. It is you who do not contemplate on life/nature/system, hence comprehend the Quran seriously and are pretty much satisfied/confined by its "grammar" and because "GOD said so".
I would have phrased the above like this "are pretty much satisfied/confined by its alleged "grammar" and because allegedly "GOD said so".
MAIN ENTRY ALLEGE to assert without proof or before proving.
Neither Marie nor mquran, have proven their assertion about the grammar, they only continue to speculate/allege, hence, they cannot claim their conclusions are definitive/are from Allah.
What are your thoughts?
Peace.
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Why is there nobody to just check the potential root consonants in a good Arabic-English dictionary (e.g. by Wehr)
kh z r
and tell us what he/she found and on which page.
Unfortunately I do not have access to the dictionary right now, but looking it up should make things clearer.
And then
Pro-Pig
to produce 1 calorie of pig meat you only need 3 calories of plant food.
But to produce 1 calorie of chicken meat you need 12 calories of plants. (cattle is about 8 I think)
has a nice taste if you are unprejudiced
is cheap
is a good recycler of organic waste
lots and lots of people eat it without any problemcontra-Pig
very fatty (but not if you eat the filet) and cholestorol problem
before improved hygiene and vet services high risk of trichines
(eats anything)But as already said in a previous post chicken or ducks or certain fish also eat anything.
and all animals can have diseases that can be harmful to humans, even fish can have dangerous worms, and nowadways you can get mad cow disease from halal meat.And by the way there are entire peoples who only live of animal blood and thereby use their cattle in a very economic way (take the blood from the living animal) which they are forced to in their rough natural environment if they want to survive
And I have eaten delicious blood sausage, a German speciality. And I am still aliveAND MOST IMPORTANTLY
I am sure that Islam is more about gihad an-nafs (overcome your ego, extend your love to others than yourself, love Allah and his creation) than about arguing about pig meat and arguing in the tone that some have used in this thread...Alf Salamaat
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Peace
Why is there nobody to just check the potential root consonants in a good Arabic-English dictionary (e.g. by Wehr)
kh z r
and tell us what he/she found and on which page.
Unfortunately I do not have access to the dictionary right now, but looking it up should make things clearer.
Yes, I'd requested this a few times myself but none supported and some continued venting on khinzeer to mean just pig and nothing else.