Is swine halal-2?
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Salaam Br Jaxal,
Well maybe I will sooner or later also drop the fish
I can found omega 3 and omega 6 in other food, I know there shall be an vegetable oil can't remeber its name now.
Peace Sis Maria
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DANISH Then what is the reason certainly for pig?s meat being restricted? If its rijsun, then WHY is it rijsun? Ask yourself this pertinent question since you agreed that everything that the Quran mentions pertaining to our lives/nature/system/law, MUST have a reason. Without any reason or justificaiton, the Quranic message and our purpose of living a life as per its injunctions/jurisdictions would be meaningless.
If one doesn?t know, then one mustn?t assign certainty to what is uncertain/doubtful/unknown.
mquran Once again, I do not know the biological reason. However, I don't want to disobey Allah just because I don't know. I DON"T KNOW WHY its haram beyond THE FACT that its rijsun.
LOL! You don't know why, but what you are claiming is a...FACT nonetheless LOL!. Can't even YOU, see the glaring contradiction of your statement? A FACT is known and provable reality, yet, you admit that you don't know! My God, man, aren't you tired of going on record with such nonsense? Why you are so impervious to reason is simply stunning. One more time, see if you can grasp thisvery, very, simple command of Allah
1736 And DO NOT follow that of which you have NO KNOWLEDGE; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.
What part of DON"T, do you not understand and find so challenging that, you refuse to accept its obvious meaning? Twice now you've admitted that you don't now why the pig is rijsun, that it just is, hence, in absolute disdain of ayat 1736, you take as guidance something you which you have NO KNOWLEDGE/cannot prove.
One more time see if you can grasp thisvery, very, simple command of Allah
733 Say the things that my Lord hath indeed made haram are shameful deeds...and saying things about Allah of which you have NO KNOWLEDGE.
What part of the above abbreviated ayat DON"T, do you not understand and find so challenging that, you refuse to accept its obvious meaning? Allah, clearly, is telling you NOT to ascribe, assign, associate, say about etc., anything about Him of which you have no KNOWLEDGE/CERTITUDE, yet in absolute disdain of ayat 733, you say of Allal something of which you which you have NO KNOWLEDGE/CERTITUDE, because if you did, you would be able to, by way of Al-Quran, prove your assertion that the pig is rijsun. Allah, per the above ayats, demands this of you, otherwise, you and your superstition, become gods to be follow in derogation of Him.
2124 Or have they taken for worship gods besides Him? Say, "Bring your convincing proof this is the Message of those with me and the Message of those before me." But most of them know not the Truth, and so turn away.
Main Entry a GOD a person or thingof supreme value.
Main Entry GUIDE person or thing that leads or directs another's way a person who directs another's conduct or course of life to direct in a way or course to direct, supervise, or influence usually to a particular end to superintend the training or instruction of.
I truly suggest that you contemplate the above ayat 2124 and definitions, as well as, review and grasp the meanings of the following terms, because NONE of them pertains to your claim that pig is, by the Word or Allah, haram. The terms, along with Al-Quran, condemns your conjecture and puts you, Marie, S. Carrot, Jaxal, and Tanveer, in absolute/direct opposition to Allah. You are indeed mighty and bold ones.
Main Entry ALAMA/ILM to distinguish sign science knowledge to know something positively, to recognise, to know the reality to the extent of certainty, to feel, to find out definitely.
Main Entry KNOW be certain of.
Main Entry CERTAIN/CERTITUDE KNOWN/PROVED TO BE TRUE INDISPUTABLE, dependable, reliable.
Main Entry KNOWLEDGE the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.
Main Entry POSITIVE not speculative incontestable independent of changing circumstances
Main Entry FACT the quality of being actual something that has actual existence a piece of information presented as having objective reality- in fact in truth.
Main Entry ACTUAL existing in fact or reality not false or apparent.
Main EntryTRUTH the state of being the case fact the body of real things, events, and facts actuality.
Main EntryREAL not artificial, fraudulent, illusory, not apparent occurring in fact.
Main Entry DEFINITIVE serving to define or specify precisely.
Logical reasoning ? like 'millions of ppl eat it without problem' kind of logic. Gimme a break. You don't believe in the book Danish so stop pretending. You believe in science as if its objective but science has its own chosen epistemology. You're in the wrong forum, honestly
.Quite to the contrary...it is you and the others, who do not believe in Al-Quran and the above ayats and definitions, beyond any shadow of a doubt, proves that. You people, at least on this subject anyway, are blind followers and conjecturers. Allah condemns blind following, that is, believing in and following " I don't knows"; "I thinks"; "my opinion", as if they are truths. Allah, also condems believing in and following conjecture and superstition/jibt, but I guess you don't accept any of this, oh well.
mquran wrote Well, the Priest can go back to his church of oink if he likes..
Savage_Carrot wrote Hahaha...that and the cassock one, you're on fire!!
As it stands now, vis a vis you and S. Carrot and this subject, the pig, by far, is the more intellient being, because it surrenders to Allahs laws...you two do not ( ayats 733, 1736, 4160, 51, 55, and 6146)...). wink And let me add this, if you two continue to support and promulgate superstition, which arises from the rejection of ayats 733, 1736 and 2124, when you leave this you will be on fire!scared ...a word to the wise is...sufficient wink.
Main Entry SUPERSTITION a notion maintained despite evidence to contrary a belief or practice resulting from ignorance or a false conception of causation.
Ayat 1736, if understood and practiced, is a firewall against superstition.
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scared
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Salaam,
Nailbitings oh don't be scared!!!! D
Peace sis Maria
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scared
Indeed, and its getting scarier. The effects of Halloween season.wink
Once again, I do not know the biological reason. However, I don't want to disobey Allah just because I don't know.
Well, if you're happy to disemphasise al-quraan, that's your business. As for 'without any consequences', I don't know until I actually study the field.
Millions of people fornicate all over the place too. No bolts of lightning come down onto their behinds. So maybe az-zinaa means something else too, do you think ?
Millions of people eat blood-related products. Have you met any of them ? They dont seem to complain too much either. So why not go enjoy a blood pudding this morning.
You only made the above statement becuase of your very careless attitude towards al-quraan. Does 'ayat' just mean 'verses' ? 'Ayat' also pertains to signs in our lives and in our psyches. The verses about lahumul khizneer are straightforward but the confirming ayaat in the world (tashbih = similar) is something I havent checked.
Good for you. I don't know why its haram beyond the fact that its rijsun. The 'ill-seeming' nonsense has no linguistic basis in al-quraan.
The guy has gone nuts. Height of ignorance seems to be his livelihood. Indeed very scary and wicked when such display of bliss-less and baseless arguments are demonstrated to claim the knowledge of Quran, hence trying to lead the masses into blindness/dead-ends.
2246 Did they not roam the earth, then use their minds to understand, and use their ears to hear? Indeed, the real blindness is not the blindness of the eyes, but the blindness of the hearts inside the chests.
639 Those who reject our proofs are deaf and dumb, in total darkness.
308 Why do they not reflect on themselves? GOD did not create the heavens and the earth, and everything between them, except for a specific purpose, and for a specific life span. However, most people, with regard to meeting their Lord, are disbelievers.
4513 He committed in your service everything in the heavens and the earth; all from Him. These are proofs for people who reflect.
8817 Why do they not reflect on the camels and how they are created?
626 They repel others from this, as they themselves stay away from it, and thus, they only destroy themselves without perceiving.
1591 They accept the Quran only partially.
You're in the wrong forum, honestly.
In that case, you?re on the wrong planet, as ignorant as you are of life and yet claiming to know the Quran with "I don't know's" and "just because's".
NO WHERE IN THE QURAN DOES IT MENTION TO BELIEVE IN IT JUST BECUASE IT SAYS SO.
1436 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.NOTHING IN THE QURAN IS WITHOUT A REASON. You and a few others have absolutely NO REASON to believe that pigs are bad/evil/infected by nature and hence forbidden. It is you who do not contemplate on life/nature/system, hence comprehend the Quran seriously and are pretty much satisfied/confined by its "grammar" and because "GOD said so".
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PEACE, DANISH,
NOTHING IN THE QURAN IS WITHOUT A REASON. You and a few others have absolutely NO REASON to believe that pigs are bad/evil/infected by nature and hence forbidden. It is you who do not contemplate on life/nature/system, hence comprehend the Quran seriously and are pretty much satisfied/confined by its "grammar" and because "GOD said so".
I would have phrased the above like this "are pretty much satisfied/confined by its alleged "grammar" and because allegedly "GOD said so".
MAIN ENTRY ALLEGE to assert without proof or before proving.
Neither Marie nor mquran, have proven their assertion about the grammar, they only continue to speculate/allege, hence, they cannot claim their conclusions are definitive/are from Allah.
What are your thoughts?
Peace.
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Why is there nobody to just check the potential root consonants in a good Arabic-English dictionary (e.g. by Wehr)
kh z r
and tell us what he/she found and on which page.
Unfortunately I do not have access to the dictionary right now, but looking it up should make things clearer.
And then
Pro-Pig
to produce 1 calorie of pig meat you only need 3 calories of plant food.
But to produce 1 calorie of chicken meat you need 12 calories of plants. (cattle is about 8 I think)
has a nice taste if you are unprejudiced
is cheap
is a good recycler of organic waste
lots and lots of people eat it without any problemcontra-Pig
very fatty (but not if you eat the filet) and cholestorol problem
before improved hygiene and vet services high risk of trichines
(eats anything)But as already said in a previous post chicken or ducks or certain fish also eat anything.
and all animals can have diseases that can be harmful to humans, even fish can have dangerous worms, and nowadways you can get mad cow disease from halal meat.And by the way there are entire peoples who only live of animal blood and thereby use their cattle in a very economic way (take the blood from the living animal) which they are forced to in their rough natural environment if they want to survive
And I have eaten delicious blood sausage, a German speciality. And I am still aliveAND MOST IMPORTANTLY
I am sure that Islam is more about gihad an-nafs (overcome your ego, extend your love to others than yourself, love Allah and his creation) than about arguing about pig meat and arguing in the tone that some have used in this thread...Alf Salamaat
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Peace
Why is there nobody to just check the potential root consonants in a good Arabic-English dictionary (e.g. by Wehr)
kh z r
and tell us what he/she found and on which page.
Unfortunately I do not have access to the dictionary right now, but looking it up should make things clearer.
Yes, I'd requested this a few times myself but none supported and some continued venting on khinzeer to mean just pig and nothing else.
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Peace PRIEST_BOKMEI and others,
NOTHING IN THE QURAN IS WITHOUT A REASON. You and a few others have absolutely NO REASON to believe that pigs are bad/evil/infected by nature and hence forbidden. It is you who do not contemplate on life/nature/system, hence comprehend the Quran seriously and are pretty much satisfied/confined by its "grammar" and because "GOD said so".
I would have phrased the above like this "are pretty much satisfied/confined by its alleged "grammar" and because allegedly "GOD said so".
MAIN ENTRY ALLEGE to assert without proof or before proving.
Precisely and agreed, PB. When the meanings and grammatical aspects of any word, phrase and sentence is correctly understood by reason, the message becomes clear, hence the question of alleging mustn?t arise. My reference to people claiming ?because GOD said so? or ?just because? or ?grammatically correct? was eminent as such by inverted commas.
Neither Marie nor mquran, have proven their assertion about the grammar, they only continue to speculate/allege, hence, they cannot claim their conclusions are definitive/are from Allah.
Though the pig?s meat being bad/infectious/evil by nature has certainly not been proven/concluded by their supporters at end, and as important as this topic sustains/beholds to our lives (religiously, scientifically, naturally, logically), the participation and ?energy? (rebuttals/counters/strong points) contributed by Marie, Nadia, Tanveer, and others, must not be underestimated. It is a learning curve for all of us. We as humans are prone to misunderstand, make mistakes and continue to do so in various ways. Some understand, some take time and others don't.
Unless necessary, this is my last post on this subject and I thank all for their support and participation. All-in-all, a well deserved topic in anticipation at length and depth.
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PEACE, DANISH, AND ALL PARTICIPANTS,
My reference to people claiming ?because GOD said so? or ?just because? or ?grammatically correct? was eminent as such by inverted commas.
Understood.
...the participation and ?energy? (rebuttals/counters/strong points) contributed by Marie, Nadia, Tanveer, and others, must not be underestimated. It is a learning curve for all of us. We as humans are prone to misunderstand, make mistakes and continue to do so in various ways. Some understand, some take time and others don't.
I agree 100%.
Unless necessary, this is my last post on this subject and I thank all for their support and participation. All-in-all, a well deserved topic in anticipation at length and depth.
The information and analysis you provided was/is invaluable, thanks much, and...I'm gald you were on my side on this one handshake.
Until next time, Danish...peace to you.
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I knew you'd avoid the question . A kafir is one who conceals the truth when it comes to him. Well done. Thanks for showing us who you really are.
The question still stands Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN?
Peace mquran
I'm sure it was forbidden in the OT, the jews does not eat port like us, I actually read the opassage myself, i will try to bring it here
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So lets get this straight, Priest
do you believe in 5/1 or not?
If you do,
then what from bahimatul an'aam are HARAM unconditionally as the verse says?
this is my last post unless you answer because i've reached the clarity of the argument. I'm very happy with how al-quraan points this out and its thank to you D
And I will tell you one more time IT IS YOUR ARGUMENT THAT THE PIG IS HARAM QUADRUPED, THUS, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU, SO YOU TELL US WHAT THOSE EXCEPTED QUADRUPEDS ARE. I'm not here to defend/prove your superstitious notions, GOT IT THIS TIME?
YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS QUESTION
WHY DID ALLAH, ACCORDING TO YOU, MAKE THE PIG HARAM/NOT TAYYIB? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND THIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSERTION OF YOURS; IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERTINENT TO YOUR CASE. STOP EVADING THE QUESTION, THANKS.
There's no running away now, dude. You put yourself out here and now you are way over your head, but you've got to deal; no wimping out. How did you put it to me?...whimpering? Well, don't start whimpering now. "Funny how words can backfire" and take a chunk out of your butt, huh lol ?
When are you going to tell us why Allah made the pig haram...can't do it can you? or maybe you can and just want to keep us in suspension, which is it? lol Oh, but you said the following
Oh agreed. There must be a reason certainly...I don't know why pork is rijsun.
Your repsonse is right up there with Jaxal's
I on occasion smoke weed
Anyway, if given that you cannot prove your argument, then, by all means, leave the discussion, because, frankly, we've had enough of your half-baked notions/ideas/distactions/superstitions.
Peace.
Drawing attention to the the section on "smoke weed" being attributed to mquran by PRIEST_BOKMEI/DHULQARNANE, deliberately and falsely.
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I knew you'd avoid the question . A kafir is one who conceals the truth when it comes to him. Well done. Thanks for showing us who you really are.
The question still stands Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN?
Peace mquran
I'm sure it was forbidden in the OT, the jews does not eat port like us, I actually read the opassage myself, i will try to bring it here
Post the ayat then, where Allah states that He made the pig haram to the Jews. When are you going to stop conjecturing and tlaking and post the ayat? You cannot use the Torah acount, because Allah has already told us that the Jews have tampered wth it, hence, it is not trustworthy. So, I ask you again
Which book is unadulterated, final and only book of guidance to mankind--Al-Quran or the...Torah? I'm...wait lol
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OK PBM
here is my final refute, now this refute was not talked about before and I believe there will be no response to it
first of all, the verse 6146 never said animals with claws, THIS IS THE WRONG TRANSLATION FOR SURE
(146)
the Arabic word " " CAN NOT BE TRANSLATED AS CLAW, THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT WRONG TRANSLATION
Claw means in Arabic "" Pronounced as "MaKhLab", I"M 100% positive
The arabic word " " SHOULD BE TRANSLATED AS "NAIL", this is what it means in arabic, YOU CAN CHECK THIS WITH ANY ARABIC SPEAKER
now a hoof (divided or not) or a claw (long or not sharp or not) IS A BLOODY NAIL " ", and because the pig has a nail (on the form of divided hoof) IT WAS FORIBIDDENON THE JEW IN THE QURAN
and the same verse tell us that Allah allowed them to eat The fat of the ox and the sheep (Fat Only) (and because these animals also have nails) it was required by Allah to explain to them what they can eat from a couple of animals with NAILS (OX and sheep), they could also have been eaten fish because the fish do not have nails
you have been refuted PB, as I don't care what you read in english THIS QURAN IS AN ARABIC QURAN
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Here is an important point
the following verse was translated absoutely wrong as follow
1736 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
here it is in arabic, the "Original Language"
(36)
The english translation in red should be equal to the original arabic text in red, and i see this translation as misleading to be honest
The arabic words means the following
"DO NO ARGUE WITH THINGS IN WHICH YOU LACK KNOWLEDGE"
This means mquran action when he says "HE DOES NOT KNOW" is 100% Islamic as this is what the Quran told us to do when we lack knowledge in verse 1736
Peace be with you mquran and all
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Salam Ahmad Bahgat,
Here is an important point
the following verse was translated absoutely wrong as follow
1736 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
here it is in arabic, the "Original Language"
(36)
The english translation in red should be equal to the original arabic text in red, and i see this translation as misleading to be honest
The arabic words means the following
"DO NO ARGUE WITH THINGS IN WHICH YOU LACK KNOWLEDGE"
This means mquran action when he says "HE DOES NOT KNOW" is 100% Islamic as this is what the Quran told us to do when we lack knowledge in verse 1736
Peace be with you mquran and all
Khi- I agree with you that RKs translation here is not a literal one but one deduced by inference of the meaning which it does give away if we consider the whole verse. lets translate it literally
Do not pursue that which you have no knowledge of. Indeed the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, will be asked after(on the day of judgement).
Now what does the latter part of the verse tell us? It clearly tells us WE HAVE TO USE OUR INTELLECT AND ALSO OUR FEELINGS(which some ignore) to reach the truth which means WE HAVE TO VERIFY THE THINGS FOR OURSE?VES AND NOT JUST ACCEPT THINGS BLINDLY. Thus the same meaning is being conveyed and thts what counts, though through a different wording. GOD Bless! -
OK PBM
here is my final refute, now this refute was not talked about before and I believe there will be no response to it
first of all, the verse 6146 never said animals with claws, THIS IS THE WRONG TRANSLATION FOR SURE
(146)
the Arabic word " " CAN NOT BE TRANSLATED AS CLAW, THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT WRONG TRANSLATION
Claw means in Arabic "" Pronounced as "MaKhLab", I"M 100% positive
The arabic word " " SHOULD BE TRANSLATED AS "NAIL", this is what it means in arabic, YOU CAN CHECK THIS WITH ANY ARABIC SPEAKER
now a hoof (divided or not) or a claw (long or not sharp or not) IS A BLOODY NAIL " ", and because the pig has a nail (on the form of divided hoof) IT WAS FORIBIDDENON THE JEW IN THE QURAN
and the same verse tell us that Allah allowed them to eat The fat of the ox and the sheep (Fat Only) (and because these animals also have nails) it was required by Allah to explain to them what they can eat from a couple of animals with NAILS (OX and sheep), they could also have been eaten fish because the fish do not have nails
you have been refuted PB, as I don't care what you read in english THIS QURAN IS AN ARABIC QURAN
Oh, I see, so thufr means nail and all species of animals with nails, except the two mentioned--sheep and oxen, are haram, is this really your position/refutation? rotfl Well, if thufr means nail, as you claim, then, cows, goats, rams, deer, elk, seals, turtles, sheep, oxen, etc. were also haram, because they have nails...is this really your position/refutation?, because if it is, you better rethink it. rotfl
Btw, genius, it was the FAT of the oxen and sheep which was made haram and not anything else, got it? If thufr meant nail and all animals with nails were haram to the Jews, but the sheep and oxen were the exceptions, then, Allah, would have stated that they were the exceptions in this regard. Allah, however, made no such exception and you are absolutely making this nonsense up.
You, see, the more you talk, the more you expose your foolishness. lol
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You, see, the more you talk, the more you feed my desire to see discord* lol
No one's holding you back from your spam sandwiches!
If you're going to all this trouble just to defend your habits then don't stress yourself so much.
*bold is for clarification/interpretation.