Is swine halal-2?

mquran

PRIEST Well, count yourself out. I'm not having a conversation with you, I'm talking down to you, don't you even get that yet? You're simply an amusement

Spoken like a true PRIEST. It's no wonder you named yourself that.

AMUSEMENT? God told us to leave aside those who take ad-deen to be an amusement So I will answer this post and if you don't provide evidence, I'll leave it at that. THanks for exposing your true colours.

I see you continue to indulge in the same same activity as Jaxal, because you cannot even remember what you say. You're comment to me was

Quote
mquran Funny. The ENTIRE Arabic speaking world calls al-khinzeer the pig. If you deny this assertion of the Arabic language, PROVE IT

You didn't refer to Al-Quran, but the Arabic language, hence, my reply to you was dead on accurate. Pull yourself together, will you.

Ah sorry, I forgot I was talking to you. I'll break it down so that even a monkey can understand it, so you'll have to struggle, just a bit

The Quran is in CLEAR ARABIC LANGUAGE
THEREFORE
We acquire its meanings from the living Arabic in the world
HOWEVER
Al-quraan is our al-furqaan
THEREFORE
IF the meaning contradicts quranic usage (like 5/106 contradicts 'ritual prayer'), then it can't be correct.

Now, does 'lahmul khinzeer' as 'meat of the pig' contradict ANY Quranic verses?

If you don't get it after this, then maybe we can get some crayons for you.

Oh, I see, it's made up! LOL! My God, is there no bottom to your denial? A dumb question I know, because you will only deny that you are in denial...the chief symptom of denial. Anyway refer yourself to the Dictionary of the Holy Quran, Omar, pg. 166

So 'omars dictionary' is your furqaan? Wonderful. The truth is, you'll take any source (torah included) to be your furqaan if it serves your lust for destruction of the sunni creed. You didn't come into al-islaam to learn and evolve but to be a fanatical anti-sunni. That's why your thread asserts they're not muslim DESPITE the Qurans command not to follow that which you have no knowledge. The sad thing is, this time , the sunnis actually did follow al-quraan and you didn't

Show me IN THE QURAN (not some dictionary) where 'khanz' is used. If you can't, then the word ISN'T in Quranic diction. I should think even people like you can grasp that.

Typical. You really should pick up a dictionary now and then. Who knows, you may benefit from it. Look it up for yourself, because I'm tired of spoon-feeding you.

A question why don't you choose HOOVES? Dhufrin can mean hooves. Please provide Quranic evidence (i.e. not Omar's dictionary) to show it can't possibly mean hooves.

You didn't answer the question...can't answer it can you? The question was/is...why, Quranically, according to your..."logic", is the pig haram? Take your time answering, just next time please answer the question...if you can.

Whew, you need to dig the sleep out of your eyes. Allah said 'all tayyib is halal'. Lahmul khizeer is haraam, therefore it CANNOT be tayyib. Or have you put 5/5 as a historical verse for the jews as well ?

The haneefan discussion and the khinzeer discussion are different topics. you, apparently, KNOW what haneefan means, this was your posture, however, it was not mine, hence, my understanding. Given that you KNOW what heneefan means, I required you to state what you KNOW, get it? So that you KNOW...I'm stating that the pig is NOT haram, I KNOW this, got it?

Well, Quranically, you GUESS this, got it?

The haneefan discussion simply shows your lack of the ability to keep being civil. You mentioned Muhammad because you thought it would rile up my sensitivites. That's why I said you're only good for Sunnis but when it comes to Quranic discussion, you're at a total loss. You have no idea how the heck the Quran explains itself,

Jews do constitute race, they can be of any race. Don't you even know that?

By that logic, even Muslims are racial? Do me a favour! Al-quraan defines who 'alladhina haadu' are. You have another explanation from man-made books?

A last question to you. If you answer this, I will continue. If not, I need to obey God and ignore you since you mock his ayaat.

Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN? Simple yes or no question. We'll see now how sincere you are.

unknownuser

PRIEST Well, count yourself out. I'm not having a conversation with you, I'm talking down to you, don't you even get that yet? You're simply an amusement

Spoken like a true PRIEST. It's no wonder you named yourself that. AMUSEMENT? God told us to leave aside those who take ad-deen to be an amusement So I will answer this post and if you don't provide evidence, I'll leave it at that. THanks for exposing your true colours.

Once again, you've demonstrated an inability to correctly comprehend what is said to you. I didn't say I found the Deen of Allah amusing, I said I find YOU to be an amusement. Please strive to get things right in the future, will you?

PBMI see you continue to indulge in the same same activity as Jaxal, because you cannot even remember what you say. You're comment to me was

mquran Funny. The ENTIRE Arabic speaking world calls al-khinzeer the pig. If you deny this assertion of the Arabic language, PROVE IT

PBM You didn't refer to Al-Quran, but the Arabic language, hence, my reply to you was dead on accurate. Pull yourself together, will you.

Ah sorry, I forgot I was talking to you. I'll break it down so that even a monkey can understand it, so you'll have to struggle, just a bit

LOL! you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, so how in the world are you going to break anything down? You shouldn't disparage monkey's either, because unlike yourself, even they know pigs don't have claws lol. My goodness, the monkeys would find you amusing lol

The Quran is in CLEAR ARABIC LANGUAGE

Agreed.

THEREFORE 2. We acquire its meanings from the living Arabic in the world
HOWEVER

Al-quraan is our al-furqaan
THEREFORE
IF the meaning contradicts quranic usage (like 5/106 contradicts 'ritual prayer'), then it can't be correct.

Now, does 'lahmul khinzeer' as 'meat of the pig' contradict ANY Quranic verses?

Of course your "understanding" of khinzeer contradicts another ayat

560 Say Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.

Did Allah, actually, transform human beings into...the animal pigs?

If you don't get it after this, then maybe we can get some crayons for you.

Hopefully, in the future, you will express yourself clearly. Btw, don't worry about getting me crayons, you should be more concerned about running out of paper and paint for your finger painting and dirt and water for your mud pies, don't you think? lol.

So 'omars dictionary' is your furqaan? Wonderful. The truth is, you'll take any source (torah included) to be your furqaan if it serves your lust for destruction of the sunni creed. You didn't come into al-islaam to learn and evolve but to be a fanatical anti-sunni. That's why your thread asserts they're not muslim DESPITE the Qurans command not to follow that which you have no knowledge. The sad thing is, this time , the sunnis actually did follow al-quraan and you didn't )

Hmm...tell us, were you born with the definitions of terms, if not, how do you find out their definitions? It is because you don't consult dictionaries that you ask the dumb question..."why can't thufr mean divided hoof"? With each succeeding post, you prove more and more to all that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You really should stop posting for awhile and go and get yourself together.

Show me IN THE QURAN (not some dictionary) where 'khanz' is used. If you can't, then the word ISN'T in Quranic diction. I should think even people like you can grasp that
.

Main Entry KHANIZA The Dictionary of the Holy Quran, Omar, pg. 166. Now, I've given you the book and page number now go and look up its meaning.

Whew, you need to dig the sleep out of your eyes. Allah said 'all tayyib is halal'. Lahmul khizeer is haraam, therefore it CANNOT be tayyib. Or have you put 5/5 as a historical verse for the jews as well ?

LOL! There is no question that lahmal khinzeer is haram. The reality is however that, it doesn't mean pig! Pigs don't have claws, remember? It is simply pitiful how such an obvious reality eludes you.

The haneefan discussion and the khinzeer discussion are different topics. you, apparently, KNOW what haneefan means, this was your posture, however, it was not mine, hence, my understanding. Given that you KNOW what heneefan means, I required you to state what you KNOW, get it? So that you KNOW...I'm stating that the pig is NOT haram, I KNOW this, got it?

Well, Quranically, you GUESS this, got it?

Huh??

The haneefan discussion simply shows your lack of the ability to keep being civil. You mentioned Muhammad because you thought it would rile up my sensitivites. That's why I said you're only good for Sunnis but when it comes to Quranic discussion, you're at a total loss. You have no idea how the heck the Quran explains itself.

Bring civil?! How would I know what would rile your sensibilites?? Unlike you, I can't read your mind. I'm not trying to rile you sensibilites, I'm trying to stimulate you to think past tradition and look at the reality of things. Of course, in your case, I continue to fail. If you are so easily riled, then obviously you are not mature enough emotionally to participate in adult conversation and you should remove yourself from the discussion. As far as the knowing how Al-Quran explains itself, I know it doesn't state pig is haram and i have proved this time and again.

PBM Jews do constitute race, they can be of any race. Don't you even know that?

By that logic, even Muslims are racial? Do me a favour! Al-quraan defines who 'alladhina haadu' are. You have another explanation from man-made books?

My God, you have no regard for truth or reality at all, do you?. Lisaten, Jew and Muslim, are not races, can you comprehend that?

A last question to you. If you answer this, I will continue. If not, I need to obey God and ignore you since you mock his ayaat.

The only mocker of ayats around here is you. Again, please stop assigning your character defects to me, thanks.

I told you before, you need to answer the following in order to defend your assertion that, khinzeer, in Al-Quran, means pig. The more you continue to evade these questions, then more you prove to all that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

The evidence required of you is

Why did Allah, make the pig haram.
Provide the evidence where, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, Allah made the pig haram to some peoples or another and why.

Until you can provide a lucid and coherent Quranic answer these questions, you have no case and are just rambling and blustering on and on and on and on and on....

Btw, enough already with the jabs and barbs...they are a distraction and are doing nothing to advance this discussion. If you must persist, then I will drop out before I say something really harsh to you and get banned.

mquran

I knew you'd avoid the question . A kafir is one who conceals the truth when it comes to him. Well done. Thanks for showing us who you really are.

The question still stands Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN?

unknownuser

I knew you'd avoid the question ). A kafir is one who conceals the truth when it comes to him. Well done. Thanks for showing us who you really are.

The question still stands Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN?

LOL! who do you really think you are kidding, other than yourself of course? Listen and get this, you and that vast majority of those who identify themselves as Muslins, claim that khinzeerin in Al-Quran means the animal pig and this is what you will tell all those who ask you what khinzeer means in Al-Quran, thus, you are speaking in Allah's name. With this in mind then, as I told you before, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU TO PROVE YOUR CLAIM, which you make in Allah's name. This is why Allah says in ayat 733 that, it haram to say anything of Allah unless you have certitude. I, the challenger of your assertion, don't have to prove anything. My role is to challenge/test yours and the majority of those who identify themelves as Muslim's, so-called "knowledge". To date, you have not proven your assertion and simply saying that Allah forbids the pig and that's that without His giving an explanation, is just sheer foolishness and blind following, hence, if you continue to claim that khinzeerin means the animal pig in Al-Quran, then you are a deceiver. If you wish to avoid such an opprobrious moniker as deceiver, then all you have to do is the following

The evidence required of you is

Why did Allah, make the pig haram.
Provide the evidence where, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, Allah made the pig haram to some peoples or another and why.

Until you can provide a lucid and coherent Quranic answer these questions, then the heel of ayat 55 remains deeply embedded in the back of your neck, your claim is proven fraudulent, and you are just rambling, blustering, and deceiving.

Looking forward to your...evidence. wink

mquran

LOL! who do you really think you are kidding, other than yourself of course? Listen and get this, you and that vast majority of those who identify themselves as Muslins, claim that khinzeerin in Al-Quran means the animal pig and this is what you will tell all those who ask you what khinzeer means in Al-Quran, thus, you are speaking in Allah's name. With this in mind then, as I told you before, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU TO PROVE YOUR CLAIM, which you make in Allah's name. This is why Allah says in ayat 733 that, it haram to say anything of Allah unless you have certitude. I, the challenger of your assertion, don't have to prove anything. My role is to challenge/test yours and the majority of those who identify themelves as Muslim's, so-called "knowledge". To date, you have not proven your assertion and simply saying that Allah forbids the pig and that's that without His giving an explanation, is just sheer foolishness and blind following, hence, if you continue to claim that khinzeerin means the animal pig in Al-Quran, then you are a deceiver. If you wish to avoid such an opprobrious moniker as deceiver, then all you have to do is the following

Poor guy, unable to read. Your anti-sunni psychosis is getting the better of you turning you into a (bigger) rambling fool. The question is

Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN ?

Did I translate lahumul khinzeer? You claim 'lahumul khinzeer' wasn't forbidden at the time of Muhammad, being the closet sunni that you are

Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN ?

Can't answer it, can you

unknownuser

Mquran,

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU TO PROVE YOUR CLAIM, which you make in Allah's name. This is why Allah says in ayat 733 that, it haram to say anything of Allah unless you have certitude. I, the challenger of your assertion, don't have to prove anything. My role is to challenge/test yours and the majority of those who identify themelves as Muslim's, so-called "knowledge". To date, you have not proven your assertion and simply saying that Allah forbids the pig and that's that without His giving an explanation, is just sheer foolishness and blind following, hence, if you continue to claim that khinzeerin means the animal pig in Al-Quran, then you are a deceiver. If you wish to avoid such an opprobrious moniker as deceiver, then all you have to do is the following

The evidence required of you is

Why did Allah, make the pig haram.
Provide the evidence where, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, Allah made the pig haram to some peoples or another and why.

Until you can provide a lucid and coherent Quranic answer these questions, then the heel of ayat 55 remains deeply embedded in the back of your neck, your claim is proved fraudulent, and you are just rambling, blustering, and deceiving people.

mquran

Hehe, poor guy. Its ok, its my duty to struggle against ppl like you (48/29) alongside the messenger. Here's the question again with the Quranic answer

Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN ?

If one believes in al-quraan, UNLIKE Priest Bokmei the closet Sunni, the answer is YES.

All nabiyeen brought the SAME TEACHINGS (2/213) and Muhammad was told that NOTHING was said to him that wasn't said before (41/43)

Therefore LAHUMUL KHINZEER was always forbidden.

I know , i know , I should be more sympathetic to people with 'faeces-in-the-brain'-itis

wildguest1956

Poor guy, unable to read. Your anti-sunni psychosis is getting the better of you turning you into a (bigger) rambling fool. The question is

Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN ?

Did I translate lahumul khinzeer? You claim 'lahumul khinzeer' wasn't forbidden at the time of Muhammad, being the closet sunni that you are D

Was Lahumul Khinzeer forbade BEFORE THE DESCENT OF AL-QURAAN ?

Can't answer it, can you )

Salam mquran

I fear PB will now ignore what you are writing (as his habitual tactic when he is trapped).

But he has already made the mistake to answer your question

Allah, from its inception, did not create a dead animal, blood, and ill-seeming meat as FOOD for people.

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4031&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=550#54664

See also
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4031&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=625#55205
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4031&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=625#55493

His deceiving stuff has now been exposed.

Peace

unknownuser

All nabiyeen brought the SAME TEACHINGS (2/213) and Muhammad was told that NOTHING was said to him that wasn't said before (41/43)

Therefore LAHUMUL KHINZEER was always forbidden.

I agree, in that, lahma khinzeer, means the "ill-seeming/that what is seen as bad", however, you still have not proven that lahma khinzeer means the animal pig. Ayat 4143 could apply to both translations, meaning, if lahma khinzeer means the animal pig it applies or if it means ill-seeming/that which is seen as bad, it applies. So, you haven't proved your claim that lahma khinzeerin means the animal pig. Ayat 4160 tells us that a people, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, were forbidden some good and wholesome things which were previously halal to them. Ayat 6146 tells us what those things were and the pig could not possibly be one of them, because pigs don't have claws. In addition, the following ayat and definitons also rule out the quadruped/pig, being haram

2228 That they may witness advantages for them and mention the name of Allah during stated days over what He has given them of the cattle quadrupeds, then eat of them and feed the distressed one, the needy.

Main Entry BAHIMATUN beast. any quadruped, even if in the water.

Main Entry QUADRUPED an animal having four feet.

Guess what, pigs are quadrupeds.

Therefore LAHUMUL KHINZEER was always forbidden.

You quote ayat 4143 to support your superstition that, the animal pig was always haram and I refuted that assertion. Now, tell us, according to Al-Quran, WHY was/is the pig haram. What is the reason/reasons why Allah made the pig, according to you, haram?Remember now, Allah, per ayat 1736, rejects blind following "And do not pursue/follow that of which you have no knowledge", hence, if the pig was/ is haram in this deen, then, Allah, has given a reason or reasons for it being so. Just your quoting ayat 2173 or 51 and then saying, "well, Allah says its haram and that's that", is blind following, hence, is not proof of your claim.

unknownuser

I fear PB will now ignore what you are writing (as his habitual tactic when he is trapped).

But he has already made the mistake to answer your question

PBM Allah, from its inception, did not create a dead animal, blood, and ill-seeming meat as FOOD for people.

What trapped?! Listen JM, Mquran has no more proved the pig is haram than you did. You failed miserably and so has he. As with Mquran, you too, were unable to refute, when taken together, ayats 4160, 55 and 6146. But seeing how you are back, enlist Mquran's help and answer the following

Why did Allah, make the pig haram.
Provide the evidence where, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, Allah, to some peoples or another, made the pig haram and why.
Do pigs have claws?
Is the pig a quadruped?

I can't wait to see what excuse/s you two will concoct in order to avoid answering the above pertinent questions to your assertion that the pig is haram. If you won't or can't, via Al-Quran, answer the above 4 items, then you continue to fail miserably to meet your burden of proof, and all you are peddling is superstition, fraud, and deception. So... put or simply shut up, it's your choice.

Good luck. lol

mquran

Salaam JM,

I fear PB will now ignore what you are writing (as his habitual tactic when he is trapped).

Admittedly, its harder. There are people who refuse to answer at all, but PBM after some teeth-pulling, has addressed the point. So I'll stick around while he's doing that because he's still better than those who don't/can't answer at all.

So far, the 'jews' , 'people of the book' , 'lahumul khinzeer was never haram before Muhammad' etc has all fallen. Lets work on the rest, inshaa Allah.

mquran

I agree, in that, lahma khinzeer, means the "ill-seeming/that what is seen as bad", however, you still have not proven that lahma khinzeer means the animal pig. Ayat 4143 could apply to both translations, meaning, if lahma khinzeer means the animal pig it applies or if it means ill-seeming/that which is seen as bad, it applies

Ok good. So you admit lahmul khinzeer (untranslated) has always been haram. Now I will approach your questions.

You quote ayat 4143 to support your superstition that, the animal pig was always haram and I refuted that assertion. Now, tell us, according to Al-Quran, WHY was/is the pig haram

I quoted 41/43 NOT to prove that lahmul khinzeer refers to the pig but instead to refute your initial statement about 'the jews at the time of the prophet' argument. I want to remove this historical 'jew', people of the book, torah stuff from the equation. Once we do this, I will approach your questions. It appears you've acknowledged this.

I will repeat

Lahumul khinzeer (untranslated) has always been haraam as per 2/213 and 41/43 and even 46/9.

Let us continue

Ayat 4160 tells us that a people, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, were forbidden some good and wholesome things which were previously halal to them

4/160
Fabiulmin Mina Al-Ladhna Hd So for the zulm of alladhina haadu
arramn Alayhim ayyibtin 'Uillat Lahum We restrict on them the wholesome Wa Biaddihim An Sabli Allhi Kathran And for thier preventing many from the path of Allah.

The phrase 'SOME good and wholesome things' isnt there. Haramna alahim tayyibaatin means 'we restrict/forbade on them wholesome things'. There's no 'min' there. Don't forget you said

This is my understanding, because Allah chooses His Words and means what He says

Therefore, 'some' cannot be in there without 'min' or 'fareeqan min'.

Once again, this isn't a refutation to the pig argument but merely to show that 4/160 cannot apply in your argument because it talks about wholesome things (tayyibaatin) and not 'some wholesome things'

Moving on...

Ayat 6146 tells us what those things were and the pig could not possibly be one of them, because pigs don't have claws
.

I agree that the pig isn't one of those mentioned in 6/146 but I need to ask you, where's your QURANIC evidence to show that zhufrin means 'claws' ?

Lisaanun arabiyoon mubiin gives both 'claws' and 'hooves'. Please give your reason for choosing one over the other. Sorry but the mu'jam's not going to be of help today

2228 That they may witness advantages for them and mention the name of Allah during stated days over what He has given them of the cattle quadrupeds, then eat of them and feed the distressed one, the needy.

Main Entry BAHIMATUN beast. any quadruped, even if in the water.

Main Entry QUADRUPED an animal having four feet

Wow, I can sense your elation coming through the screen! Yes, sadly you've 'won' the argument. I'm just now going to McDonalds for a Bacon McDouble. Congratulations, you've converted me into a pig-eater. Oh wait, just let me check the context to be sure

Dhlika Wa Man Yuaim urumti Allhi Such is those who strive for the restrictions/forbidden of Allah Fahuwa Khayrun Lahu Inda Rabbihi For them is the goodness in thier sight of thier Lord.
Wa 'Uillat Lakumu Al-'Anm and lawful for you are the cattle 'Ill M Yutl? AlaykumEXCEPT WHAT IS RECITED UPON YOU
Fjtanib Ar-Rijsa Mina Al-'Awthni Wa Ajtanib Qawla Az-Zri
but shun the abomination of idols, and shun the word that is false,

So funnily enough, there are exceptions, namely what is recited on you from the cattle. Would you care to tell me what that exception is? Is 'ill-seeming' a type of cattle?

Why did Allah, make the pig haram

Because it is not tayyib. All tayyib food is halal.

Provide the evidence where, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, Allah, to some peoples or another, made the pig haram and why

Lahumul khizeer's always been haraam. 22/30 above is definitive proof of this now. Thanks for pointing out 22/28. Word 'backfire' sort of comes to mind now, doesn't it?

Do pigs have claws?

No.

Is the pig a quadruped?

Yes.

All your questions have been answered directly. Awaiting your response to 22/30. Thanks.

unknownuser

Salaams Br. Mquran,

My understanding for now

Wa 'Uillat Lakumu Al-'Anm and lawful for you are the cattle 'Ill M Yutl? AlaykumEXCEPT WHAT IS RECITED UPON YOU
Fjtanib Ar-Rijsa Mina Al-'Awthni Wa Ajtanib Qawla Az-Zri
but shun the abomination of idols, and shun the word that is false,

An-ama = Beneficience, favour to a person, gifted

This word isn?t cattle always and mostly it can/does mean other things! Please check your dictionaries.

And the answer lies in the same verse

Lawful/allowed to you the beneficence/gifts/favours except what is mentioned to you so SHUN THE ABOMINATION OF IDOLS AND SPEECH LYING.BEING UPRIGHT TO ALLAH NOT ASSOCIATING PARTENERS UNTO HIM e.t.c

Also Al-Anam can be plants and birds according to lanes so it isn?t even quadrupeds all the time??????????

God Bless.

marie

al-anAAami

And from the livestock (al-anAAami) are those for burden, and also for clothing. Eat from what God has provided you and do not follow the footsteps of the devil; he is to you a clear enemy.
Eight pairs from the lambs two, and from the goats two; Say Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the womb of the two females bore? Inform me if you are truthful!
And from the camels two, and from the cattle two; Say Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the womb of the two females bore? Or were you witnesses when God ordered you with this? Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God to misguide the people without knowledge. God does not guide the wicked people.
And He is the One who created all the pairs, and He made for you from the ships and the livestock (al-anAAami) that which you can ride.

A. Shabir
6142 Among the large and small quadrupeds some are for work and transportation and others for flesh, and their skins for bedding materials. Enjoy what Allah has provided you. And follow not the footsteps of Satan. Satan, your selfish desire, is your open enemy.

6143 Take the example of eight quadrupeds Two sheep, one male and one female, two goats, one male and one female. Say, Is it the two males that He has forbidden, or the two females, or the calves in the wombs of the females? Tell me if you have true knowledge.

6144 Then two camels, one male and one female, two cows, one male and one female. Say, Is it the two males that He has forbidden, or the two females, or the calves in the wombs of the two females? Were you witnesses when Allah made such prohibitions? Who can be a greater transgressor than the one who invents a lie and attributes it to Allah? They mislead people without knowledge. Allah does not intervene to guide those who displace knowledge with conjecture.

al-anniAAam, the plural form of niAAmat/favour/blessing
3120. Did you not see that God has committed in your service everything in the heavens and the Earth, and He has showered you with His blessings (niAAamahu), both apparent and hidden? Yet from the people are some who argue about God without knowledge, without guidance, and without an enlightening Scripture.

O you who believe, remember God's favour (niAAmata) upon you when soldiers attacked you and We sent upon them a wind and invisible soldiers. God is Seer of everything you do.

mquran

Salam brother Mz,

In this case, there's the context to think about. 22/28 continues on to 22/30. That's why an'aam here cannot mean other than cattle. Furthermore, the word 'dhalika' (that) connects directly the procedure in 22/28 to 22/30.

unknownuser

Salaams Mquran,

Lawful/allowed to you the cattle/beneficence/gifts/favours except what is mentioned to you so SHUN THE ABOMINATION OF IDOLS AND SPEECH LYING.BEING UPRIGHT TO ALLAH NOT ASSOCIATING PARTENERS UNTO HIM and whoever assigns partners to Allah as if he had fallen from the sky and had snatched him the birds or blown him the wind to a place far off that and whoever honours the Symbols of Allah then it is truly from the piety of the hearts.You have in them benefits for an appinted term

I hope you don?t think Allah is saying we have benefits in the cattle ? I think even a tiger knows there are benefits in cattle no one needs telling ? but what we do need is to be told we have benefits in doing good deeds ? symbols of Allah ?

God Bless.

Jaxal

SaLaM Marie

the plural form of niAAmat/favour/blessing

Just a side note really, but niaamat means the same in urdu. D

I think even a tiger knows there are benefits in cattle no one needs telling ? but what we do need is to be told we have benefits in doing good deeds ? symbols of Allah ?

Indeed. Why would God tells us "dont eat ill-seaming food coz its bad for health"? Stating the obvious shock

mquran

Salaam brother Mz,

Lawful/allowed to you the beneficence/gifts/favours except what is mentioned to you so SHUN THE ABOMINATION OF IDOLS AND SPEECH LYING.BEING UPRIGHT TO ALLAH NOT ASSOCIATING PARTENERS UNTO HIM and whoever assigns partners to Allah as if he had fallen from the sky and had snatched him the birds or blown him the wind to a place far off that and whoever honours the Symbols of Allah then it is truly from the piety of the hearts.You have in them benefits for an appinted term (before you start to get old and weak) then you go unto the house of the old.

I hope you dont think Allah is saying we have benefits in the cattle I think even a tiger knows there are benefits in cattle no one needs telling but what we do need is to be told we have benefits in doing good deeds symbols of Allah ?

Indeed I don't think that. Here's my tafseer of the passage

22/26 Allah says that site of the house was established for Ibrahim.
22/27 The call is made among humankind with al-hajj. They go to the site
22/28 These people who go will witness the benefits during the appointed days over (and please note there the wording) what Allah has 'rizq'ed (maa razqahu) from 'bahimatul an'aam' (quadrupeds of the cattle). This definitely doesn't refer to general benefits.
22/29They then complete thier rites and tawaaf to the Baitul atiq
22/30Dhalika is mentioned here, liking the preceding passage with the verse. Whoever honours the hurumaat/restrictions of Allah, its good for him. He's made halal al-an'aam EXCEPT that which is recited on us. If you take 'an'aam' to be benefits, why would Allah make any benefit haraam?
therefore avoid rijus min al-awthaan and avoid a word which is zoor.

I suggest taking a look at al-awthaan and qaulan zoor. Clearly the usual word for idols like 'aaliha, andaada and asnaam' arent used there and 'zoor' isn't the same as 'kazb' or 'ifk', the usual word for lies.

The context tells me that bahimatul an'aam is the subject here though and there is from them, somethign recited which is haraam. So the word 'benefits' (man'faa, usually) doesn't come into it.

unknownuser

Salaams Br. Mquran,

i think what i was really trying to get accross was that whether Allah is saying cattle or anything other ,In this Ayah Allah is allowing something and forbidding something and these both are written in this same ayah-as far as i understand it.

lets see

Lawful/allowed to you the cattle/beneficence/gifts/favours except what is mentioned to you so SHUN THE ABOMINATION OF IDOLS AND SPEECH LYING.

Another example

51,O ye who believe! fulfil (all) obligations. Lawful unto you (for food) are all four-footed animals, with the exceptions herein- animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb for Allah doth command according to His will and plan.

in this above AQllah has prohibited in the one and the same ayah - but in this case they are animals-i think , but in the previous they are not animals but something other ,and i checked according to the QD -they are idols and false speech.

Salaams.

mquran

Salaam brother MZ,

I agree the end of the verse is unusual. Perhaps you can use your dictionary and tell us what awthan and zuur means!

To me, the 'bahimah' mentioned in 22/28 is an indication that an'aam in 22/30 refers to cattle and not benefits. This is further reinforced by the word 'dhalika' in 22/30.