How was adam sent to earth?
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SaLaM PM and Joe
PM God also asked the angels to bow down to adam. Do you think you are worth that? I dont think i am. So i dont think 'speaking to adam' = 'speaking to mankind'. The verses i showed you cleary says that at one point Adam was in Jannah/paradise and then he was sent down/degraded/lowered to Ard/Earth. Dont you think that it is remotely possible that Adam, at some point, was NOT on this planet AFTER his creation? I hope you understand.
The word ihbitoo can mean go down or it can mean, be low or degraded
AND
The word ihbitoo can mean go down or it can mean, be low or degraded
Isnt there a possibility that Adam was a single entitiy. That adam did eat the forbidden fruit. And Adam was sent down. From Adam we all came and are here becoz of Adam. As you said, we are bound to his pattern.
Leaving that aside, Joe can you explain to me the verses 7.19 - 7.25 using your understanding of Adam? Im interested to hear it.
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Salaam,
Sure adam could be a single entity, but that's not my belief. Adam/Mankind are bound to eat the fruit , recieve the wahi to be guided aright. Error is our lot and Allah has bestowed mercy upon Himself for our benefit. The shame or perhaps the bane of our race is such suggestive influence .
Joe
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Salaam!
If Adam was in "Paradise" up there far away and he ate the forbidden fruit and we ended up here because of that then that's Adams fault not ours so why should we be all here and punished for it. It doesn't make sense for God to punish our souls by sending us to Earth with Adam. With that kind of reasoning I'm inclined to believe at the moment that Adam was a man on Earth who had Paradise all around him and once he broke Gods command by letting the "hidden whisper"(shaitaan) take over his mentality the war started between Mankind controlling this whisper and trying to elevate to our original status which Adam was before he broke Gods command.
I don't know that's my theory at the moment I'll have to study Adam much more as like someone said its a metaphore so patience and God's guidance are needed to understand this thoroughly.
PEACE
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Hi Nabi,
I do not believe in heaven and hell.
thats a surprise. )
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Jaxal
The word "Janna" in the Koran does not necessarily mean the Paradise of the Afterlife. The root word is 'jeem' 'noun' 'noun', which actually means a covering or sheath ( mask )if you will. The word can mean any garden or forested area which covers the earth. The plural is "jannat" ( or in some cases 'jinan' ) meaning gardens or wooded fields which cover the earth or 'mask' it, so to speak.
The word 'majnoon' is derived from it. When we say that a person is 'majnoon', this means his mind has been masked or veiled, and he can't think properly.I would advise you to read the following
6141 / 1791 / and especially, 18 32-40.You will find that the word "janna" in those verses does not mean the Paradise of the Afterlife.
In my earlier reply, I stated that the Janna where Adam lived is here on Earth. There is a recent scientific theory that the first humans emerged from the thick tropical jungles of Africa and Amazonia. The Koran describes it as a paradise, because humans had all that they needed food, water, shelter from the sun, etc... They lived in these jungles and never knew thirst or hunger, cold or heat.
The word Adam is derived from the root "alif" , "dal" , "meem". ( Please refer to my post on page one ). The idea is that Adam was the name of the first race of humans ( Homo Sapiens ) who were intelligent enough to be God's vicegerents on Earth (Khalifa). This happened after eons of evolution.
The reason for the confusion is that we read the word "ard" and "ahbitoo" together in the verses.
This is how I see it
When Adam ( the race ) was in the "Janna", their number was not very great. After they disobeyed God and were banished, we see the word "ard" was used. This is to denote that the rest of the Earth - the whole Earth- will be their domain, and the domain of all their descendents ( generations ) until the end of time.
Humans began to spread and multiply over vast expanses of the planet. They were no longer confined to the "janna" . This is why God used the word "ard". I understand why you were a bit confused.The "Janna" is part of the Earth, ultimately. So if they were in this paradise, then they were definately on Earth. But the opposite doesn't hold. ( If they were on the Earth -ard- somewhere, then that doesn't mean that they were necessarily in the "Janna"
You getting this so far? winkSo they spread and scattered, and were now forced to cultivate, hunt for food, and build shelters against the natural forces.
This is what's meant by the word "ahbitoo". As member "Nabi" pointed out.
It means to move from a place of confort or freedom, to a place of slavery or hardship. ( degradation ). Please read 261 and you'll understand.As for the difference between Adam and Nas
Adam was the first race of homogenous, dark-skinned humans, which emerged from the Primordial Jungles. After they spread all over the Earth, they began to evolve into different 'races' and colors, depending on the climate and areas they settled in. Hence they became 'Nas' ( the various peoples of the Earth). I looked up the root for "nas" and I found a relation between it and "noon" "waw" "sin". which means "confusion" or "mix- up" of some sort. ( I'm not sure about this, I will have to verify it ). Anyway, the point is, NAS is used to describe various races. But the origin of these races was Adam. Science has proven that the land and climate have a great impact on the physical appearence of a race.
The verses you stated ( 719-25 ) actually happened over a period of tens of thousands of years.
Member "Idolfree" claims that the story is not literal. I respect his position.
After all, remember that the verses dealing with Genesis belong to the "Mutashabih" part of the Kitab. Each generation can interpret them according to the scientific knowledge available in their age. Maybe 50 years from now, new discoveries will be made, and they will scoff at our interpretations. Remember also that they are not essential for our salvation. You won't go to Hell for not understanding the ultimate meaning of these verses. ( Only God does ) -
Salam,
I would have gone for the "jannah is here/a part on earth" theory too were it not for these two verses
But the devil duped them, and caused their eviction therefrom. We said, "Go down as enemies of one another. ON EARTH SHALL BE your habitation and provision for awhile."
He said, "Go down as enemies of one another. ON EARTH SHALL BE your habitation and provision for awhile."
Now if jannah is on earth then this last phrase above doesnt really make much sense. If the earth included jannah GOD would have said something like "out of / out of the state of jannah shall be your..." or perhaps "in the lower regions of the earth shall be your". GOD's using the whole term "earth" only in the bove verses indicates that jannah could NOT have been a place on earth. The phrase clearly indicates a situation like "before you were there, NOW you should be here" thus making the two entities entirely separate and not one including the other. So I believe RK's interpretation to be correct here too. All were souls in heaven(think of it as another another matrix / simulated reality) before coming here.PS The verse saying that "...when man was something not worth mentioning.." obviously refers to him being a drop of sperm, and NOT as mankind being a creature(the verse doesnt say creature) like an ape or so, as can be concluded from other verses like
Was he not a drop of ejected semen?
It's this lowly liquid thats "not worth mentioning". GOD Bless! -
*fumbles Jaxas -)
Little Green Men perhaps on a planet called zog who enjoy a bucket of KFC?
Always the funny one arent you ? loooooll.
It is called witticism old chap!! wink
Regards,
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Peace be upon you all,
First let me say that I respect everyones understanding and that 2 Pac said it best when he said;
I'll have to study Adam much more as like someone said its a metaphore so patience and God's guidance are needed to understand this thoroughly.
With that said, I will continue to debate my understanding until I see an argumant that solidly rejects it.
What we have to do is to take these stories out of the subjective into the objective. The God is not giving us stories of history for the sake of saying, "this is what happened to a man named adam and his wife", this is a guidance for us, it is explaining how the MIND/Spirit (nafs) works because that is what we are dealing with, he who purifies the nafs succeeds and those that dont fail.
We can all verify for ourselves that in out minds/spirit we have verbal thoughts and also visual images. They are two of the programming tools of the Nafs(mind/spirit). Shouldn't that be the first thing we are informed of at the beginning(genisis)?
The "whisperer" is the animalistic thoughts that come from the animal spirit which is why the wicked are metaphorized as animals. ALthough I dont think the snake is actually stated in this reading, itis stated in others, because itis the reptilian brain ( I think its called R complex) that is our oldest brain which sends these thoughts to us. The reptilian brain is coered by the mammalian brain, then the cerebral cortex. We are suppossed to transcend the animal brain with the others.
Anyway, lets get back to the story. The verbal thoughts are are intellect. It is the aquired information we get from livinghere on this earth, some information is correct, some is not. But we get information through segregating and naming/defining things, which is opposite to the unifying (oneness) nature needed to gain knowledge.
Let me repeat that, when you name/define things, you are seperating one thing from another, that is how you define/name. What was "adam" doing? Exactly that. D
Thoughts form images, thats why "his mate" came afterwards. She does not have a name because visualization is wholeistic, not segregative/linear like verbal thoughts. Verbal thoughts are left brain activities and visual images are right brained(wholeistic).
For example, I could show you a picture and you could understand what I was trying to convey, or I could verbally explain it which would give you piece by piece in order to explain it.
This makes the story objective and verifyable, therefore giving us sure guidance.
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I stated that the Janna where Adam lived is here on Earth. There is a recent scientific theory that the first humans emerged from the thick tropical jungles of Africa and Amazonia. The Koran describes it as a paradise, because humans had all that they needed food, water, shelter from the sun, etc... They lived in these jungles and never knew thirst or hunger, cold or heat.
The word Adam is derived from the root "alif" , "dal" , "meem". ( Please refer to my post on page one ). The idea is that Adam was the name of the first race of humans ( Homo Sapiens ) who were intelligent enough to be God's vicegerents on Earth (Khalifa). This happened after eons of evolution.
When Adam ( the race ) was in the "Janna", their number was not very great. After they disobeyed God and were banished, we see the word "ard" was used. This is to denote that the rest of the Earth - the whole Earth- will be their domain, and the domain of all their descendents ( generations ) until the end of time.
Humans began to spread and multiply over vast expanses of the planet. They were no longer confined to the "janna" . This is why God used the word "ard".
The "Janna" is part of the Earth, ultimately. So if they were in this paradise, then they were definately on Earth.So they spread and scattered, and were now forced to cultivate, hunt for food, and build shelters against the natural forces.
this makes perfect sense to me!
but pazuzu, r u also saying theres no seperate entity called heaven?
and had to say this, ur avtar is scary ? -
SaLaM everyone
Wow. Im so proud to see the diversity of our believes cry .
Dont know if im the only one here who believes Adam and Satan/shaitan to be an entity. But can those of you who belive it to be our nafs and whatnot, can you all explain the verses 7.19 - 7.25 using ur understanding? Like what do you think verse 7.19 says and what what do you think verse 7.20 says ALL with YOUR understanding.
Joe
Jannah = Garden
Jannah represents more than a place in the hereafter.
I do believe in jannah.
So you dont belive in heaven. But you believe in Garden. Garden = Jannah. Garden is in the afterlife. But you just replaced the word 'Heaven' with Garden ?
What do u think is the difference between Garden and Paradise?
2Pac
If Adam was in "Paradise" up there far away and he ate the forbidden fruit and we ended up here because of that then that's Adams fault not ours so why should we be all here and punished for it. It doesn't make sense for God to punish our souls by sending us to Earth with Adam
And then there is that women menstruate becoz eve commited a sin. looooooll. This is the reason why im more inclined towards the 'big bang / evolution theory'. But my belief in Quran and the 'Evolution theory' clash. Still cant figure it out. (
Pazuzu
The idea is that Adam was the name of the first race of humans ( Homo Sapiens ) who were intelligent enough to be God's vicegerents on Earth (Khalifa). This happened after eons of evolution.
So that would then coincide with the evolution theory right? And if im not misunderstanding you, you are saying that Jannah is part of the earth. A very beautiful part. And Ard is the not so beautiful part of the earth? Correct?
Idmkhizar
Brother where do you dissapear to? loool.
Now if jannah is on earth then this last phrase above doesnt really make much sense.
I feel the same. I cannot see how after reading the Quran, one can assume that Jannah is on earth. Hmmmmmmm.
Idolfree
Brother your beliefs always inspiring. for real. but the main difference here is that im taking this story literally. You are not. Like totally different end of the spectrum loooll. You are violet. Im red. You are day and im night. lollllll. This releationship is not going to work ( rotfl
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Peace,
So you dont belive in heaven. But you believe in Garden. Garden = Jannah. Garden is in the afterlife. But you just replaced the word 'Heaven' with Garden
No. Please do not impose your beliefs on mine own. Jannah is a place of advancement. I do not believe in the idea of heaven as you may believe . The garden represents the growth of the individual, the abode of peace.
What do u think is the difference between Garden and Paradise?
It's more than meets the eye. That's the non-literal approach to which you do not conform and as you said to Kyle "This releationship is not going to work".
But can those of you who belive it to be our nafs and whatnot, can you all explain the verses 7.19 - 7.25 using ur understanding? Like what do you think verse 7.19 says and what what do you think verse 7.20 says ALL with YOUR understanding.
I explained to you in post #26. Because of suggestive influence we must tread through materialistic domains. Our putting forth is our return "dar al-salam".
Joe
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SaLaM Joe
No. Please do not impose your beliefs on mine own. Jannah is a place of advancement. I do not believe in the idea of heaven as you may believe . The garden represents the growth of the individual, the abode of peace.
Brother no one is imposing anything on you. What i meant to say was that your beleif , ie You beleive in Garden, Garden = Jannah and Garden is in the after life, sounds exactly the same as someone who believes in Paradise, ie I belive in paradise, Paradise = Jannah and Paradise is in the after life. The last part was just me thinking out loud
Our putting forth is our return
What goes around comes around. Indeed.
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Sorry, had to edit . oops
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Peacefulmuslim wrote
this makes perfect sense to me!
but pazuzu, r u also saying theres no seperate entity called heaven?It depends on the context of the verse, brother. If you want to know what the word "Janna" means, you have to read the whole verse to understand the context.
For example, in 1791,92, we see the rejecters telling the prophet that they will not believe him, unless he can cause a spring of water to burst from the ground, or that he brings about a "Janna" of palm trees and grapes and causes rivers to run through it.
Here we can see that the word "janna" means simply a garden.
Likewise, when we read 36 34,35
{And we made in it (the previously barren land ) "Jannat" of date palms and grapes and made springs gush forth therein * so that they may eat from its fruits and what they manufacture with their own hands....}
Here, too, we see the word "Jannat" as meaning gardens or orchids.
It all depends on the context.
Jaxal wrote
So that would then coincide with the evolution theory right? And if im not misunderstanding you, you are saying that Jannah is part of the earth. A very beautiful part. And Ard is the not so beautiful part of the earth? Correct?
Yes I am a firm believer of evolution. This doesn't necessarily mean that I support the Darwin version of it, but I refuse the ridiculous story of creation that the traditionalists believe.
I refuse to believe that 6 billion human beings came from one couple.
Remember that Satan used the idea of immortality to seduce Adam.
If Adam lived in the Paradise Hereafter, then he must have been an immortal already. So how can he be seduced by something which he already has??
The Paradise of the Afterlife does not exist yet. It will come into existance in the Hereafter.
And if im not misunderstanding you, you are saying that Jannah is part of the earth. A very beautiful part. And Ard is the not so beautiful part of the earth? Correct?
Not quite. Ard means the whole Earth - as the domain of al Nas ( humankind). It is a place of toil, hardships, and trial. The Janna was a place of happiness, where one can eat and drink to his heart's content, without needing to fear or worry. It may have been Earth in a previous, lost state. Who knows?
The point is, Adam was here all along. WE have been here all along. We were created from the Earth, we will return to the Earth, and from the Earth we will rise again.
...and had to say this, ur avtar is scary
Believe me, I look even scarier in real life. twisted
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I thought it was 'completel knowledge' instead of 'immortality'.
Not quite. God had already taught him the "names of all things", before Satan reared his ugly head in.
Read 20120
{But the devil whispered to him and said "Shall I lead you to the tree of immortality and a kingdom which will not waste away?}
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
(719-25)And you Adam, reside/inhabit you and your wife/spouse the Garden, so you (B) eat from (it) where/when you (B) willed/wanted, and do not approach/near this/that the tree, so you (B) become/will be from the unjust/oppressive.
**Mans intellect(adam) and imagination(his wife) were made to be submissive to the God. As long as they worked for the God's cause, they could enjoy the Garden and have all they needed. ***
So the wordly obsession(shaytaan) talked to/gave evil suggestions and temptations to them (B) to show to them (B) what was hidden/concealed from them (B) from their (B)'s shameful genital private parts, and he said "Your (B)'s Lord did not prevent you (B) from that/this tree except that you (B) become/be two controlling forces or you (B) become/be from the immortal/eternal ."
The implication is that the physical side of things was not visible. The physical side is the lowest part of being where things appear seperated. The wordly obsession(rejecting thoughts) call us to the lowly physical illusion, the God calls us to the Most High.*
And he swore/made oath to them (B) "I am to you (B) from (E) the advisors/counselors."
The lowly world, is decieving
So he lured/attracted and lowered them (B) , with deceit/temptation so when they (B) tasted/experienced the tree, their (B)'s shameful genital private parts appeared to them (B), and they (B) started and continued (to) stick/tried hard to make do with what they do not have on them (B) from the Paradise's leaves , and their (B)'s Lord called them (B) "Did I not forbid/prevent you (B) from that the tree, and I said to you (B) that the devil (is) for you (B) an evident enemy?"
They (B) said "Our Lord, We caused injustice/oppressed ourselves, and if You do not forgive for us, and You have mercy upon us, we will be/become from the losers ."
He said "Drop/descend/reduce some of you to some (are) an enemy, and for you in the earth/Planet Earth (is) settlement/establishment and long life/enjoyment to a time ."
He said "In it you live, and in it you die, and from it you are brought out ."*** SO the human falls to the material level and if not for the help of the God he/she fails.**
Brother your beliefs always inspiring. for real. but the main difference here is that im taking this story literally. You are not. Like totally different end of the spectrum loooll. You are violet. Im red. You are day and im night. lollllll. This releationship is not going to work
Thats fine D But dont close your mind to the metaphorical understanding.
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