According to Quran: Is Paradise only for the Muslims ?
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Salaamun alaikum AB,
Ah, well that advice goes for me too. It's the provocative language these people sometimes use, thats all.
Salam bro
yeh man I'm cool and will stay cool
Up to a point I agree with you but I feel the need to filter meaning back to al-quraan itself. Take the word 'ibada'. Its a common word in the muslim world yet when you take it back to al-quraan, it roots itself in various maqaam and sheds a whole new world-view. I've seen this for myself and am amazed by it. My point is, al-quraan must be taken as a criteria to determine meaning.
I agree man and I have no question about it and inshaaallah I have the answer for you from the Quran that "Nasara" means Christians, it is just a coincidence that ?Ansara? is similar in letters, but I stress bro that they are different in meaning and the Quran will prove it shortly
Yes, Nazareth.
that?s the one, thanks bro
See, here's where my problem begins.
you should not have any problem man, if you know an honest and fluent Arabic speaker then you have no problem whatsoever
I believe this information was intentionally left out of al-quraan because it bears no relevance to the meaning of nasara. To me, al-quraan sufficiently sheds light on the nasara meaning through 'ansar'.
for a first few impressions yes, but the truth is different my friend, the Quran will shortly confirms that
That's a good point. I think 3/52 solves it though with 'amanna billah' after Isa asked 'man ansaari ilaa Allah'. What do you think?
this is also a good point by you that the verse started with ?Amanna? which means all what will be listed are already ?believers? including the one who support assuming that Nasara means to support for the time being, but I agree with you regarding the Quran explains itself, verse 352 actually confirms that it is to support, I will put the verse here then show you the verse that confirm the meaning of Nasara
?When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples "We are Allah's helpers We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.?
(52)
-> In the above verse, the Arabic word used was ?? which means ?Supporter? and is also a common Arabic word that means exactly ?Supporter?, the word here was used in Jesus question after he felt many of the people around him starting to flaw in the belief, and he wanted his message to be delivered and asked who will support him, the quran clearly says that only the DISCIPLES answered and confirmed that they will be ?SUPPORTERS OF ALLAH? then they declared their believe and their submission to Allah ?Islam? ? , ? "We are Allah's helpers We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.?
There should not be any mix up here man with the Arabic word ?ANSAR? which is a very common Arabic name that means ?to Help?, ?To help in causing another one to be victories?, ?To support?, this is why I don?t believe that the disciples sold Jesus and denied that it was him while it was him.
The Quran came clear and identified to us what ?Nasara? means as Christians, let?s look at the following verse which in the same sura
YUSUFALI Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.
PICKTHAL Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
SHAKIR Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.
Literal Abraham was not a Jew and nor a Christian and but (he) was (a) true submitter/Moslem/Unifier of God a Moslem/submitter, and (he) was not from the sharers/takers of partners (with God).
Free-Minds Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene, but he was a monotheist who surrendered; he was not of those who set up partners.
Rashad Khalifa Abraham was neither Jewish, nor Christian; he was a monotheist submitter. He never was an idol worshiper.
(67)
-> very clear bro, this verse were revealed when the Christians claimed that Abraham was a Christian and also the Jew claimed that Abraham was a Jewish, my note here is FreeMind translation, I believe it is wrong to translate it as ? Nazarene? (while I agree that it means the people from this town as I explained earlier, the context here means the Follower of Jesus who was from that town ?The Christians? , ?The Nasara?), because they have contradicted themselves if they don?t translate it as ?Christian?, my logic is this
The verse is telling us that Abraham was not a Jewish nor a Christian but a Muslim, and you will see that all 6 translations agreed on the Jew and translated as ?Jewish?, while 4 of the 5 translations agreed with the literal translation of ?Nasara?, which is ?A Christian? as far as I know for 40 years man this is the only meaning, so for FreeMind to go with figurative meaning like ?New Yorkers? may confuse the readers of the non Arabic Quran (Translation I mean).
Allah knows best
Many thanks again for this discussion.
Thank you man anf peace be with you ?happy eid?
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peace Ahmed,
you wroteanyone who rejects islam after the advant of islam, will not see paradise until the camel go through the hole of the needle
546-And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary confirming the law that had come before him We sent him the Gospel therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
547-Let the people of the Gospel Judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed they are (no better than) those who rebel.brother if you are right then tell me why? even after the advent of Islam the people of the gospel are advised to judge by what Allah hath revealed therein?
bye. -
Peace be upon you all,
anyone who rejects islam after the advant of islam, will not see paradise until the camel go through the hole of the needle
Peacefulness(islam has been the way since the beginning of creation, there is no "advent" of "islam".
Is the God saying that all the other people in the world like Buddists, Taoists, Hindus, American Indians, Kemetans, Zulus, etc etc are wicked and not worthy of the "garden"?
What about the sabians mentioned? Why is there no further talk of them like there is further talk of "nasara" and "hadoo"?
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peace Ahmed,
you wroteanyone who rejects islam after the advant of islam, will not see paradise until the camel go through the hole of the needle
546-And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary confirming the law that had come before him We sent him the Gospel therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
547-Let the people of the Gospel Judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed they are (no better than) those who rebel.brother if you are right then tell me why? even after the advent of Islam the people of the gospel are advised to judge by what Allah hath revealed therein?
bye.Bro, what I said above is from the Quran "Not from me" i will show the verses later inshaallah
the request from people of the gospel to judge with what Allah revealed was at their time when there was no Quran, now a new request is on the table which is to Judge by the preserved revelation because they corrupted theirs
peace
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Peace be upon you all,
anyone who rejects islam after the advant of islam, will not see paradise until the camel go through the hole of the needle
Peacefulness(islam has been the way since the beginning of creation, there is no "advent" of "islam".
sorry bro, Islam means submission to Allah, this peacefulness to describe Islam is nothing but a joke, sorry, to be peaceful is part of being A Submitter to Allah though, and part of that submission is not to be peaceful with the enmy of our religion who want to kill us
Is the God saying that all the other people in the world like Buddists, Taoists, Hindus, American Indians, Kemetans, Zulus, etc etc are wicked and not worthy of the "garden"?
Yes your God is saying this in the Quran, thanks
What about the sabians mentioned? Why is there no further talk of them like there is further talk of "nasara" and "hadoo"?
please elaborate
peace
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
sorry bro, Islam means submission to Allah, this peacefulness to describe Islam is nothing but a joke, sorry
Where is the word "allah" in "islam"?
to be peaceful is part of being A Submitter to Allah though, and part of that submission is not to be peaceful with the enmy of our religion who want to kill us
You have to be peaceful so as not to get REVENGE but instead to want your enemy to understand Truth and correct themselves.
idolfree1 wrote
Is the God saying that all the other people in the world like Buddists, Taoists, Hindus, American Indians, Kemetans, Zulus, etc etc are wicked and not worthy of the "garden"?Yes your God is saying this in the Quran, thanks
Where?
idolfree1 wrote
What about the sabians mentioned? Why is there no further talk of them like there is further talk of "nasara" and "hadoo"?please elaborate
We dont really need to take this further. You will need to understand that it is not only Europeans and Arabs that go to paradise, and the africans , chinese, and hindus ect go to hell.
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Peace,
People can submit to anything they choose. Islam does not mean submission to Allah unless it is used in such a context.
Islam = Peace or Obedience
Just like ahadeeth does not mean sayings of Muhammad, unless used in that context.
Hadeeth = Story or Narration
Joe
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Peace,
People can submit to anything they choose. Islam does not mean submission to Allah unless it is used in such a context.
hello,
also it does not mean peace unless it is used in such a conext, but again if the context means peace then it can't be "Islam" it has to be "Silm" or "Salam" but never "Islam"
Islam = Peace or Obedience"
I will take it as Obedience, but I can't take it as peace, because part of the religion is not peace when it comes to defending ourselves, because it encourges the fighting and not forgiving at that circumstance of aggression as well peace means "Salam" or "Silm" but never means "Islam"
Just like ahadeeth does not mean sayings of Muhammad, unless used in that context.
many of the hadith is the sayings of the prophet as well
Hadeeth = Story or Narration
Quran also = Story or Narration
the question is is the stories told are true stories or not in both hadith and the Quran
Peace
Ahmed
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Peace ahmed,
Your wroteBro, what I said above is from the Quran "Not from me" i will show the verses later inshaallah
Brother, what I am saying is also from Quran )
you also wrotethe request from people of the gospel to judge with what Allah revealed was at their time when there was no Quran, now a new request is on the table which is to Judge by the preserved revelation because they corrupted theirs
No Quran? Brother if the revelation period is correct? Then this versed was revealed almost 17 years after the first revelation. My fair Guess is 80%+ Quran was there.
How would you explain these verses?
7159 Of the people of Moses there is a section WHO GUIDE AND DO JUSTICE IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH.
3113-Not all of them are alike OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK ARE A PORTION THAT STAND (FOR THE RIGHT); they rehearse the signs of Allah all night long and then prostrate themselves in adoration.
3114-They believe in ALLAH and THE LAST DAY; THEY ENJOIN WHAT IS RIGHT and FORBID WHAT IS WRONG; and they (hasten in emulation) in (all) good works; THEY ARE IN THE RANKS OF THE RIGHTEOUS.
3115-OF THE GOOD THAT THEY DO NOTHING WILL BE REJECTED OF THEM; for Allah knoweth well those that do right.375-Among the People of the Book ARE SOME WHO IF ENTRUSTED WITH A HOARD OF GOLD WILL (READILY) PAY IT BACK; others who if entrusted with a single silver coin will not repay it unless thou constantly stoodest demanding because they say "There is no call on us (to keep faith) with these ignorant (pagans)." But they tell a lie against Allah and (well) they know it.
376- Nay. THOSE THAT KEEP THEIR PLIGHTED FAITH and ACT ARIGHT VERILY ALLAH LOVES THOSE WHO ACT ARIGHT.BYE.
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Peace Ahmed,
peace, consequently it does not mean peace unless it used in such a conext
Indeed. I can be saying peace to you with infamy in my heart or say I am promoting peace when I am promoting mischief in the land.
I agree with you.
I will take it as Obedience, but I can't take it as peace, because part of the religion is not peace when it comes to defending ourselves, because it encourge the fighting and not forgiving at that circunstanc as well peace means "Salam" NOT "Islam"
Okay, you can take it as you see fit so far as your knowledge is developed.
peary of the hadith is the sayings of the prophet
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. That first word is really throwing me off.
Quran also = Story or Narration
I was talking about hadeeth.
the question is is the stories told are true stories or not in both hadith and the Quran
Well I cannot confirm the ahadeeth in alquran from a historical perspective but I can confirm them according the the clearest method of authenticity given me .
Joe
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Peace ahmed,
Peace bro
Your wrote
Bro, what I said above is from the Quran "Not from me" i will show the verses later inshaallah
Brother, what I am saying is also from Quran )
Then we have a conflict here bro, let?s compare the two and see for ourselves what is the outcome
you also wrote
the request from people of the gospel to judge with what Allah revealed was at their time when there was no Quran, now a new request is on the table which is to Judge by the preserved revelation because they corrupted theirs
No Quran? Brother if the revelation period is correct? Then this versed was revealed almost 17 years after the first revelation. My fair Guess is 80%+ Quran was there.
bro please and don?t get me wrong here, I careless on when the suras were revealed, we have a book claiming itself to be the preserved words of hid last message to humanity before the judgment day, being a Christian or whatever the warning is for all
I feel I don?r understand your point, can you please explain your point regarding following the books by the Christians, thanks
How would you explain these verses?
7159 Of the people of Moses there is a section WHO GUIDE AND DO JUSTICE IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH.
but when was that? Is it now, or then?
3113-Not all of them are alike OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK ARE A PORTION THAT STAND (FOR THE RIGHT); they rehearse the signs of Allah all night long and then prostrate themselves in adoration.
3114-They believe in ALLAH and THE LAST DAY; THEY ENJOIN WHAT IS RIGHT and FORBID WHAT IS WRONG; and they (hasten in emulation) in (all) good works; THEY ARE IN THE RANKS OF THE RIGHTEOUS.
3115-OF THE GOOD THAT THEY DO NOTHING WILL BE REJECTED OF THEM; for Allah knoweth well those that do right.as far as I believe the above verses were revealed concerning a few persists who embraced Islam like Assad Ibn Obaid and others, but again I don?t understand your point can you elaborate please before I discuss the verses in great details
375-Among the People of the Book ARE SOME WHO IF ENTRUSTED WITH A HOARD OF GOLD WILL (READILY) PAY IT BACK; others who if entrusted with a single silver coin will not repay it unless thou constantly stoodest demanding because they say "There is no call on us (to keep faith) with these ignorant (pagans)." But they tell a lie against Allah and (well) they know it.
376- Nay. THOSE THAT KEEP THEIR PLIGHTED FAITH and ACT ARIGHT VERILY ALLAH LOVES THOSE WHO ACT ARIGHT.BYE.
The above 2 verses bro are talking about some incidents that happened in the past between Mohammad and some Christians, nothing conflicting here
The Quran talks a lot about the Jews and the Christians anyway so if they have something positive it will be mentioned
For examples Allah said many times that He preferred the Jews over the Alameen, would that be also a conflict as you see it
Peace
I can't keep up with the replys I have to make lol , sorry if I can't make a few
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Peace to all
here is where the Quran says anyone who is not a muslim will be one of the losers at the end
YUSUFALI If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
PICKTHAL And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
(85)
Peace to all
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Hello again
I found those two interesting verses in the same sura no 3
003.019
YUSUFALI The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will) Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.PICKTHAL Lo! religion with Allah (is) the Surrender (to His Will and Guidance). Those who (formerly) received the Scripture differed only after knowledge came unto them, through transgression among themselves. Whoso disbelieveth the revelations of Allah (will find that) lo! Allah is swift at reckoning.
SHAKIR Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
003.020
YUSUFALI So if they dispute with thee, say "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah's sight are (all) His servants.PICKTHAL And if they argue with thee, (O Muhammad), say I have surrendered my purpose to Allah and (so have) those who follow me. And say unto those who have received the Scripture and those who read not Have ye (too) surrendered? If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is thy duty only to convey the message (unto them). Allah is Seer of (His) bondmen.
SHAKIR But if they dispute with you, say I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.
(19)
(20)
Peace
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peace Ahmed,
you wrote
bro please and don?t get me wrong here, I careless on when the suras were revealed, we have a book claiming itself to be the preserved words of hid last message to humanity before the judgment day, being a Christian or whatever the warning is for all
i think it is impotant to know when a certain verse was revealed, its background and the people who were being addressed, this helps a lot in the understanding of that perticular verse. I dont think it is his last message to humanity.I feel I don?r understand your point, can you please explain your point regarding following the books by the Christians, thanks
what i was trying to say was that according to this verse the christians are being asked to pass judgements according to what was revealed to them by Allah in the gospel.
7159 Of the people of Moses there is a section WHO GUIDE AND DO JUSTICE IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH.
but when was that? Is it now, or then?
its always.
the request from people of the gospel to judge with what Allah revealed was at their time when there was no Quran, now a new request is on the table which is to Judge by the preserved revelation because they corrupted theirs
corrupted theirs? what about our? is it free of corruption? we hate to see others attacking our religion, but love to attack other religions ?
regards -
Peace be upon you,
I find it interesting that when "islam" is attacked in the world, everyone can see how the word is associated with Peace, but then go right back to "submission".
Why do we greet PEACE be upon you instead of "submission" be upon you?
That which sister Tahira envisions as "heaven" is none other tan a peaceful state of mind.
Fighting the aggressors is "keeping the Peace", there is no contradiction in this.
The submission falls under "sujood" which means "hear and obey".
I agree they compliment each other, but certainly it is PEACEwe are after, the greeting in the Garden is PEACE!
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peace idolfree1,
you wroteI find it interesting that when "islam" is attacked in the world, everyone can see how the word is associated with Peace, but then go right back to "submission".
me too bro lol
I agree they compliment each other, but certainly it is PEACEwe are after, the greeting in the Garden is PEACE!
100% with you brother
260-Eat and drink of that which Allah hath provided, and do not act corruptly, making mischief in the earth.
Its all About PEACE.peace sis Tahira.
you wrote
Dear brothersI can just imagine the lot of you in heaven,
thank you sis, it makes you different from people who imagine lot of us in hell D .
Sorry i won't be joining you because you see we sunni women are wicked and cursed.
?
PEACE BE WITH YOU ALL. -
peace Ahmed,
you wrote
bro please and don?t get me wrong here, I careless on when the suras were revealed, we have a book claiming itself to be the preserved words of hid last message to humanity before the judgment day, being a Christian or whatever the warning is for alli think it is impotant to know when a certain verse was revealed, its background and the people who were being addressed, this helps a lot in the understanding of that perticular verse. I dont think it is his last message to humanity.
you see bro it is just going to open the doors for speculations, remeber verse 37 it sayd there verses which are clear and others which are not clear, the ones who are sick in the heart will chase the meaning of the unclear verses seeking discord, the problem is you will never now who is seeking discord or not, so it better to shut the door from the first place especially if has nothing to do with the believe in Allah
the people with knowledge should not even chase the meaning of these unclear verses, Allah is telling us that those knowlegable believers will accept the unclear verses along with the clear ones as both from Allah
those unclear verses are nothing but a test to the believers and their counter part
I feel I don?r understand your point, can you please explain your point regarding following the books by the Christians, thanks
what i was trying to say was that according to this verse the christians are being asked to pass judgements according to what was revealed to them by Allah in the gospel.
Yes but before it got corrupted, same with the jews, you see the problem we have that when Allah give the reposnbility of preserving His laws to the humans, they failed Him and ended up corrupting it, so Allah provided His last warning to all before the Judgment day and He took charge of preserving it, i.e. this is the law for all humans for 1425 years and will stay as is till the judgment day
7159 Of the people of Moses there is a section WHO GUIDE AND DO JUSTICE IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH.
the request from people of the gospel to judge with what Allah revealed was at their time when there was no Quran, now a new request is on the table which is to Judge by the preserved revelation because they corrupted theirs
corrupted theirs? what about our? is it free of corruption? we hate to see others attacking our religion, but love to attack other religions ?
no bro I donlt hate others attacking my religion as long as they present their attacks in a politically correct manner, I always love to dicuss critics to my religion, I really enjoy it because I always find the answer in the Quran, now we have some critics in hand which are as following
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I'm claining the bible (OT and NT) have been corrupted by humans unlike the Quran
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you claim that the Quran must also be corrupted as if, no book should esacpe the human sickness of corruption to mislead their fellow human benings
let's debate it bro in a constructive manner and I will convince you inshaallah with my conclusion
peace be with you
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Peace be upon you,
peace be with you bro
I find it interesting that when "islam" is attacked in the world, everyone can see how the word is associated with Peace, but then go right back to "submission".
I could not understand the above bro, sorry, can you elanorate please?
Why do we greet PEACE be upon you instead of "submission" be upon you?
bro what is greeting has to do with the name of a religion?, have we ever seen the christians greet each other by saying this "Christ"?
bro the name of the religion has nothing to do with peace greating, being peacful is just part of the religion, that's all
Fighting the aggressors is "keeping the Peace", there is no contradiction in this.
really fighting will keep the peace?
i have never seen this in the whole history of mankind, can you please give me a few real examples not metaphors
The submission falls under "sujood" which means "hear and obey".
sorry sujood means to prostrate to Allah and has nothing to do with submission to Allah, but we need to prove the submission with actions like sujood, fasting, zakat, Salat (sujood is part of the salat anyway)
I agree they compliment each other, but certainly it is PEACEwe are after, the greeting in the Garden is PEACE!
yep the peace of mind we are after and that can only be achived by Submitting menatlly to Allah
mate do you consider Allah is a real God or a metaphoric god?
peace