According to Quran: Is Paradise only for the Muslims ?

agentxxx

peace ahmed,

you wrote

you see bro it is just going to open the doors for speculations, remeber verse 37 it sayd there verses which are clear and others which are not clear, the ones who are sick in the heart will chase the meaning of the unclear verses seeking discord, the problem is you will never now who is seeking discord or not, so it better to shut the door from the first place especially if has nothing to do with the believe in Allah

the people with knowledge should not even chase the meaning of these unclear verses, Allah is telling us that those knowlegable believers will accept the unclear verses along with the clear ones as both from Allah

those unclear verses are nothing but a test to the believers and their counter part

the verse 37 says there are two Categories of verses in Quran, but it does not indicate which verse falls into which category? and it is up to us to decide, those verses that cannot be explained in a logical way, we say are either unclear, symbolic or stories. why doesnt the muslim scholars
get together and decide it ones and for all, which of the verses fall under the category of clear and which are sybolic? instead of leaving it to the discretion of the readers.

you also wrote

no bro I donlt hate others attacking my religion as long as they present their attacks in a politically correct manner, I always love to dicuss critics to my religion, I really enjoy it because I always find the answer in the Quran, now we have some critics in hand which are as following

I'm claining the bible (OT and NT) have been corrupted by humans unlike the Quran
you claim that the Quran must also be corrupted as if, no book should esacpe the human sickness of corruption to mislead their fellow human benings

let's debate it bro in a constructive manner and I will convince you inshaallah with my conclusion

brother I am not sure about this corruption but indeed I have my doubts? so you can start by telling me how it was collected and compiled? and through what sourses has it reached us intact?
regards.

unknownuser

peace ahmed,

Peace bro

you wrote

you see bro it is just going to open the doors for speculations, remember verse 37 it sayd there verses which are clear and others which are not clear, the ones who are sick in the heart will chase the meaning of the unclear verses seeking discord, the problem is you will never now who is seeking discord or not, so it better to shut the door from the first place especially if has nothing to do with the believe in Allah

the people with knowledge should not even chase the meaning of these unclear verses, Allah is telling us that those knowlegable believers will accept the unclear verses along with the clear ones as both from Allah

those unclear verses are nothing but a test to the believers and their counter part

the verse 37 says there are two Categories of verses in Quran, but it does not indicate which verse falls into which category?

and it is up to us to decide, those verses that cannot be explained in a logical way, we say are either unclear, symbolic or stories. why doesnt the muslim scholars
get together and decide it ones and for all, which of the verses fall under the category of clear and which are sybolic? instead of leaving it to the discretion of the readers.

Of course it does not, it is designed to expose the people with sick hearts, however it is very simple to identify, if the meaning is not clear and can mean a few things or the meaning is crystal clear

I understand that understanding the meaning can be relative from one to another, that is why what you will proposed is a damn good idea for the Muslims to do, i wonder why they never thought of why you managed to think of, that is also what I propose

you also wrote

no bro I donlt hate others attacking my religion as long as they present their attacks in a politically correct manner, I always love to dicuss critics to my religion, I really enjoy it because I always find the answer in the Quran, now we have some critics in hand which are as following

I'm claining the bible (OT and NT) have been corrupted by humans unlike the Quran
you claim that the Quran must also be corrupted as if, no book should esacpe the human sickness of corruption to mislead their fellow human benings

let's debate it bro in a constructive manner and I will convince you inshaallah with my conclusion

brother I am not sure about this corruption but indeed I have my doubts?

bro you as a Muslim is invited by the Quran to have that doubt, I did accept the invitation and spent about 15 years trying to tackle that doubt and Alhamdulellah I passed that period for good, the Quran for me is one thing I take for granted

so you can start by telling me how it was collected and compiled? and through what sourses has it reached us intact?
regards.

Bro we can tackle all these issues later regarding the collection and compiling, i know it all, but it will not be fair to judge a book by how it was collected or compiled 1400 years ago, because simply we will never be able to prove that what we heard is 100% right beyond reasonable doubt, like the hadith exactly

but the point is the Quran is intact for 1400 years and this was enough sign for me to put the collection and compiling subject aside until I exhaust its content

and that is what i did, I exhausted its content by studding it to the finest details even going through the hadith to see what all paries has said about it, as well it was compared with the Bible and the Veda

the point is we don?t have many holy books around, we have a few, like the OT the NT , the Veda and the Quran, possibly the Dead Sea Scrolls as well, and might be another couple that I'm not aware of, anyway, it is very easy to prove that the Quran stands out high between all these books, it is enough that no human claimed to be the author, it is also enough that it was not changed for 1400 years and we still counting, as well it came with a built in challenges to humanity, which is to write a sura like it, not enough?, how about this

find any grammar mistake
find any historical mistake
find any scientific mistake
find any bloody mistake

and yet no challenge was met by any human, jinn, or any other god

it needs time bro to submitt, that time is years and years not months

Peace be with you man

agentxxx

peace Ahmed,
you wrote

the point is we don?t have many holy books around, we have a few, like the OT the NT , the Veda and the Quran, possibly the Dead Sea Scrolls as well, and might be another couple that I'm not aware of, anyway, it is very easy to prove that the Quran stands out high between all these books, it is enough that no human claimed to be the author, it is also enough that it was not changed for 1400 years and we still counting, as well it came with a built in challenges to humanity, which is to write a sura like it, not enough?, how about this

This challenge was not made to humanity, as there was no electronic media to convey this challenge to the rest of the world, it was a challenge made to a group of people in Mecca, and most of them could not even read.
ab says

find any grammar mistake

How can there be any grammatical mistakes now? When for centuries it has been corrected by thousands of scholars. But still I will search for these mistakes and let you know, so that you may explain them to me
Only by its teachings, its principles, and content can a book be judged rightly; not by its eloquence, elegance, or poetic strength"
In every written language there must be a "best piece" of literature. Take for example the Rig-Veda of India (1,000- 1,500 B.C.), or the eloquent poems in Greek, the Odyssey and the Iliad by Homer, or the Gilgamesh Epic, the Code of Hammurabi, and the Book of the Dead from Egypt, all which are considered classic masterpieces, and all of which predate the Qur'an.
ab says

find any historical mistake

The Qur'an explicitly denies that Jesus was crucified. It claims that the Jews became so confused that they crucified somebody else instead who had the likeness of Christ. It is recorded in the Qur'an 415,
"They slew him not nor crucified but it appeared so unto them."
In many places, the Qur'an mentions Mary as the sister of Moses and Aaron and the daughter of Imran. The Qur'an has confused Jesus' mother with Aaron's sister because both of them carry the same name, though there are several centuries between them. The Qur'an indicates that Mary (Christ's mother) had a brother whose name was Aaron (chapter 192 and a father whose name is Imran (chapter 6612). Their mother was called "the wife of Imran" (chapter 335) which eliminates any doubt that it confuses Mary, mother of Jesus, with Mary, sister of Aaron.

The Qur'an claims that Haman was pharaoh's prime minister even though Haman lived in Babylon one thousand years later? Yet the Qur'an says so. The Qur'an says that the one who picked Moses from the river was not his sister but his mother (286-, and that a Samaritan was the one who molded the golden calf for the children of Israel and misguided them, and the golden calf was lowing (refer to chapter 2085-8 though it is well-known that Samaria was not in existence at that time. The Samaritans came after the Babylonian exile. How could one of them have made the golden calf for the people of Israel?

Concerning the birth of Christ, the Qur'an teaches that the Virgin Mary gave birth to him under the shade of a palm tree and not in a manger of sheep (refer to Mary 1923). The Qur'an ignores all the documented historical evidence available to all people across the ages and brings us new discoveries
ab says

find any scientific mistake

"When he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring and found a people thereabout. We said ?O Dhul-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness"? (Surah 1886).
1519-And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
ab says

find any bloody mistake

Do they not ponder on the Qur'an?
Had it been from other than Allah,
they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.-- Sura 482
Since this verse is claiming that there is "no contradiction / discrepancy" in the Qur'an, therefore itself has to be part of the list of contradictions because it contradicts the existence of the contradictions.
ab says

and yet no challenge was met by any human, jinn, or any other god .

There are no other gods, we don?t know anything about jinn except that they are mentioned in Quran so we are left with only humane beings to meet this challenge.

Regards.

unknownuser

peace Ahmed,

peace bro

sorry for my many typos, it really sucks when I type quick

you wrote

the point is we don?t have many holy books around, we have a few, like the OT the NT , the Veda and the Quran, possibly the Dead Sea Scrolls as well, and might be another couple that I'm not aware of, anyway, it is very easy to prove that the Quran stands out high between all these books, it is enough that no human claimed to be the author, it is also enough that it was not changed for 1400 years and we still counting, as well it came with a built in challenges to humanity, which is to write a sura like it, not enough?, how about this

This challenge was not made to humanity, as there was no electronic media to convey this challenge to the rest of the world, it was a challenge made to a group of people in Mecca, and most of them could not even read.

no bro it is not about any soecific sura, I will show you my evuidence later as I have to head to work, also the challenge to all humans as understaood from the clear arabic Quran, wait for my evidences bro before you reply please

ab says

find any grammar mistake

How can there be any grammatical mistakes now? When for centuries it has been corrected by thousands of scholars.

I will classify what you said as hearsay, and the onus is on you to provide compelling evidences

now my say is the Quran never been changed since day one it was revealed

But still I will search for these mistakes and let you know, so that you may explain them to me

I would love to bro, I have been doing this for over a year with malicious enemy of islam, I know all the alleged mistakes and you will find many web sites posting them you won't search for long indeed, but in refuting it bro we have one main rule, no language will be held agaisnt the Quran but the original arabic language, and there will be a few other small rules when we start, it is only to make it constructive

Only by its teachings, its principles, and content can a book be judged rightly; not by its eloquence, elegance, or poetic strength"
In every written language there must be a "best piece" of literature. Take for example the Rig-Veda of India (1,000- 1,500 B.C.), or the eloquent poems in Greek, the Odyssey and the Iliad by Homer, or the Gilgamesh Epic, the Code of Hammurabi, and the Book of the Dead from Egypt, all which are considered classic masterpieces, and all of which predate the Qur'an.

then sorry I should add what you mentioned as well eloquence, elegance, or poetic strength, however I'm talking about content for an average person who knows nothing about poetry

ab says

find any historical mistake

The Qur'an explicitly denies that Jesus was crucified. It claims that the Jews became so confused that they crucified somebody else instead who had the likeness of Christ. It is recorded in the Qur'an 415,
"They slew him not nor crucified but it appeared so unto them."

yep and I will prove it to you that Jesus was not crusified

this is contradiction no 1 . that I have to reply to now

In many places, the Qur'an mentions Mary as the sister of Moses and Aaron and the daughter of Imran. The Qur'an has confused Jesus' mother with Aaron's sister because both of them carry the same name, though there are several centuries between them. The Qur'an indicates that Mary (Christ's mother) had a brother whose name was Aaron (chapter 192 and a father whose name is Imran (chapter 6612). Their mother was called "the wife of Imran" (chapter 335) which eliminates any doubt that it confuses Mary, mother of Jesus, with Mary, sister of Aaron.

here we go, I reqeuested please to debate one point at a time

now we have another contradiction for me to respond to

The Qur'an claims that Haman was pharaoh's prime minister even though Haman lived in Babylon one thousand years later? Yet the Qur'an says so. The Qur'an says that the one who picked Moses from the river was not his sister but his mother (286-, and

now we have contradiction no 3

it seems you totally ignored my reqauest to debate one at a time

please mate, wasn't I clear enough when I requested that?, i'm sorry if i wasn't, but please can we do one contradiction at a time

my reply for each will not going to be a line and half, I will provide compelling evidences to refute it for good

that a Samaritan was the one who molded the golden calf for the children of Israel and misguided them, and the golden calf was lowing (refer to chapter 2085-8 though it is well-known that Samaria was not in existence at that time. The Samaritans came after the Babylonian exile. How could one of them have made the golden calf for the people of Israel?

contradiction no 4

well I will respond to all in oprder

Concerning the birth of Christ, the Qur'an teaches that the Virgin Mary gave birth to him under the shade of a palm tree and not in a manger of sheep (refer to Mary 1923). The Qur'an ignores all the documented historical evidence available to all people across the ages and brings us new discoveries
ab says

contradiction no 5

as i said will be responded to in order

find any scientific mistake

"When he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring and found a people thereabout. We said ?O Dhul-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness"? (Surah 1886).

contradiction no 5

you totally ignored my request and i reckon it is deliberate now, lol

1519-And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

contradiction no 6

in order mate, please be patient

ab says

find any bloody mistake

Do they not ponder on the Qur'an?
Had it been from other than Allah,
they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.-- Sura 482
Since this verse is claiming that there is "no contradiction / discrepancy" in the Qur'an, therefore itself has to be part of the list of contradictions because it contradicts the existence of the contradictions.

contradiction no 7

ab says

and yet no challenge was met by any human, jinn, or any other god .

There are no other gods,

sorry, there are a lot of people who claim there is other gods, like the hindu for example they have millions of gods, and the christians they have 3 gods and many other flawed concepts that have no proof

we don?t know anything about jinn except that they are mentioned in Quran so we are left with only humane beings to meet this challenge.

well if the Quran is proven to be divine and uncorrupt then what it says about the Jinn must be true

however I will acceot for the time being that the challenge was to humans only, did they bloody manage to pass it in 1400 years? no

also I thought you are a new muslim, but it seems to me that you are not muslim at all, am i right?

for the 7 contradictions you posted, I will respond to one at a time in a new thread addressed to you

peace

agentxxx

peace Ahmed,
you wrote

also I thought you are a new muslim, but it seems to me that you are not muslim at all, am i right?

no brother you are absolutely wrong, Alhamdu lilla i am proud of being a muslim, I cannot tell you about my family for the fear of retribution, but I will tell you i am from a very prominent family in pakistan, my father was in showbiz, and there are dozens of web sites dedicated to him, during the last two decades he said goodbye to showbiz and dedicated all his energy and time in social work and to develop religious harmony amongst the different sects of Islam. he passed away in 1999. today he is not only remembered for his contribution in showbiz but he is also remembered as a religious scholar.
so please dont judge me on the basis of my confusion, I am a scorpio and by nature I am inquisitive and unlike my family I dont believe in blind faith now.
regards.

unknownuser

peace Ahmed,
you wrote

also I thought you are a new muslim, but it seems to me that you are not muslim at all, am i right?

no brother you are absolutely wrong, Alhamdu lilla i am proud of being a muslim, I cannot tell you about my family for the fear of retribution, but I will tell you i am from a very prominent family in pakistan, my father was in showbiz, and there are dozens of web sites dedicated to him, during the last two decades he said goodbye to showbiz and dedicated all his energy and time in social work and to develop religious harmony amongst the different sects of Islam. he passed away in 1999. today he is not only remembered for his contribution in showbiz but he is also remembered as a religious scholar.
so please dont judge me on the basis of my confusion, I am a scorpio and by nature I am inquisitive and unlike my family I dont believe in blind faith now.
regards.

Ok bro, I'm really sorry, I just started the other thread man, please read it

thanks

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Ahmed,

idolfree1 wrote
I find it interesting that when "islam" is attacked in the world, everyone can see how the word is associated with Peace, but then go right back to "submission".

I could not understand the above bro, sorry, can you elanorate please?

Never mind it.

idolfree1 wrote
Why do we greet PEACE be upon you instead of "submission" be upon you?

bro what is greeting has to do with the name of a religion?, have we ever seen the christians greet each other by saying this "Christ"?

I am not talking about religion, I am talking about the psychology of behavior. The God has given us this greeting because it has PURPOSE, not because it is a fancy greeting. We use this greeting because PEACE is the goal, which is why the greeting in the garden is also PEACE. The state of Peace is the goal since the beginning. The Kemau(egyptians) used the word Hetep, jews-shalom, Jesus taught "Peace be with you", etc etc.

Further, we are not discussing the "name" of a religion, we are discussing PURPOSE, "islam" is a description, not a name.

bro the name of the religion has nothing to do with peace greating, being peacful is just part of the religion, that's all

You are welcome to your thoughts, there is no compulsion.

idolfree1 wrote
Fighting the aggressors is "keeping the Peace", there is no contradiction in this.

really fighting will keep the peace?

i have never seen this in the whole history of mankind, can you please give me a few real examples not metaphors

Just go to your local police station and ask them to provide that, I am sure they will have plenty of real examples where they had to subdue someone who has transgressed the LAW. Remember, we are talking about defense, not aggression.

idolfree1 wrote
The submission falls under "sujood" which means "hear and obey".

sorry sujood means to prostrate to Allah and has nothing to do with submission to Allah, but we need to prove the submission with actions like sujood, fasting, zakat, Salat (sujood is part of the salat anyway)

You are welcome to your understanding, but I respectfully disagree based on how the words are used over years of studying this topic objectively.

idolfree1 wrote
I agree they compliment each other, but certainly it is PEACEwe are after, the greeting in the Garden is PEACE!

yep the peace of mind we are after and that can only be achived by Submitting menatlly to Allah

Yes, once we "hear and obey", then Peace follows. I agree wink

mate do you consider Allah is a real God or a metaphoric god?

I do not consider the God to be an object , out there somwhere, but instead the indwelling intelligence within all things.

Komla

My salaam,i understand the whole concept,of muslim christians,muslim jews.But muslim atheist??????isnt an atheist someone who dont believe in God at all??????

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Komla,

My salaam,i understand the whole concept,of muslim christians,muslim jews.But muslim atheist??????isnt an atheist someone who dont believe in God at all??????

I think that it is many times that 'atheists" are people who dont believe in som "God in the sky" , or objective being out there. But they do believe in some force higher than them. This is essentially the truth. BUt again, the word "muslim" deals with being peaceful. If an athiest is peaceful, then they are described as "muslim". However, there is a difference between being peaceful, or at peace and being one who trusts(mumin).

unknownuser

Hi
I think that it is many times that 'atheists" are people who dont believe in som "God in the sky" , or objective being out there. But they do believe in some force higher than them. This is essentially the truth. BUt again, the word "muslim" deals with being peaceful. If an athiest is peaceful, then they are described as "muslim". However, there is a difference between being peaceful, or at peace and being one who trusts(mumin).

Muslim is one who believes in one God and lives a righteous life.

An aethist doesnt believe in God nor a higher force.
But an aethist can be a good, righteous human being, even without belief in God.

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace be upon you PM,

An aethist doesnt believe in God nor a higher force.

Technically yes, but some call themselves that because they dont believe in the "god in the sky" theory and dont really have a title to call themselves. If they manifest peace, they are "muslim", because thats all the word means.

Jaxal

SaLaM idolfree

Atheist dont believe in God. Full stop. I have known many athests. They ridicule the whole notion of a higher power.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Jaxal,

Are they peaceful or not peaceful?

unknownuser

Atheist dont believe in God. Full stop. I have known many athests. They ridicule the whole notion of a higher power.

I agree. They dont believe in any higher power coz they dont see sense in it.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

But the question is not belief in a higher power, its being peaceful vs not peaceful. Please correct me if I am missing something.

unknownuser

HI Idolfree1,

But the question is not belief in a higher power, its being peaceful vs not peaceful. Please correct me if I am missing something.

r u saying a muslim is also one, who doesnt believe in God?

I understand and fully believe aethists(who do not believe in God) can be righteous human beings as well and would be rewarded for the same.

Peace!

Jaxal

SaLam idolfree

Yes they are peaceful. Even some satanist are peaceful. Monkeys are peaceful too.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Look at verses 4914-15

The "aAArabu" said "We believed." Say "You did not believe, and but say 'We are peaceful' and the faith/belief did not (E) enter in your hearts . And if you obey The God and His messenger He does not reduce/diminish you a thing from your deeds , that truly The God (is) forgiving, merciful. Truly/indeed the believers(almu/minoona) (are) those who believed with (in) God and His messenger, then they did not doubt/be suspicious, and they struggled/did their utmost with their properties/possessions and themselves in God's way/path , those, they are the truthful.

unknownuser

Sorry Idolfree you traanslation is wrong bro

Quloo Aslamna , clear as light means "Say We Submit to Allah"

no question about it mate 500%

peace

unknownuser

ok D