According to Quran: Is Paradise only for the Muslims ?
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
Are they peaceful or not peaceful?
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Atheist dont believe in God. Full stop. I have known many athests. They ridicule the whole notion of a higher power.
I agree. They dont believe in any higher power coz they dont see sense in it.
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Peace be upon you,
But the question is not belief in a higher power, its being peaceful vs not peaceful. Please correct me if I am missing something.
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HI Idolfree1,
But the question is not belief in a higher power, its being peaceful vs not peaceful. Please correct me if I am missing something.
r u saying a muslim is also one, who doesnt believe in God?
I understand and fully believe aethists(who do not believe in God) can be righteous human beings as well and would be rewarded for the same.
Peace!
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Peace be upon you,
Look at verses 4914-15
The "aAArabu" said "We believed." Say "You did not believe, and but say 'We are peaceful' and the faith/belief did not (E) enter in your hearts . And if you obey The God and His messenger He does not reduce/diminish you a thing from your deeds , that truly The God (is) forgiving, merciful. Truly/indeed the believers(almu/minoona) (are) those who believed with (in) God and His messenger, then they did not doubt/be suspicious, and they struggled/did their utmost with their properties/possessions and themselves in God's way/path , those, they are the truthful.
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Sorry Idolfree you traanslation is wrong bro
Quloo Aslamna , clear as light means "Say We Submit to Allah"
no question about it mate 500%
peace
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ok D
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
There was a time when i hated God. Yet, i found peace at times. Having peace and beleiving in God is 2 different things. Night and day stuff.
I have not compared being peaceful with believing in God. Thats why I said that "muslim" is anyone who is peaceful/promotes peace. Believeing in the God is not "believeing in some object in the skies", it is recognizing the LAW of the universe, especially the Unifying force of the world. You dont have to connect it with some old man with a grey beard.
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SaLaM idolfree
Thats why I said that "muslim" is anyone who is peaceful/promotes peace.
And here i thought a muslim is someone who submits to Allah. Becoz if what you say is true, then an atheist is laughs at the notion of a higher being, is also a muslim if he is peaceful and promotes peace.
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
And here i thought a muslim is someone who submits to Allah. Becoz if what you say is true, then an atheist is laughs at the notion of a higher being, is also a muslim if he is peaceful and promotes peace.
I can be convinced otherwise if you show me a verse proving it. I am never above correction, but sarcasm will never be convincing D
We debate(hajja) to verify if we are on the correct path, not to get angry.
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Hi Idolfree1,
I have not compared being peaceful with believing in God. Thats why I said that "muslim" is anyone who is peaceful/promotes peace.
U r right.
Being righteous and peaceful is one aspect makes one a good human being and has its own merit.
And believing in One God is another aspect makes one a religious human being. I'd say, it has less merit on its own, if not accompanied with righteousness, as belief and righteousness should go hand in hand. And belief in one God without righteousness, becomes hypocrisy.Both of the above, make one, a muslim.
However, God's judgement on the day, will be based on everything and will be absolutely just, and its only He who knows all the truth.
4016 The Day whereon they will (all) come forth not a single thing concerning them is hidden from Allah. Whose will be the dominion that Day?" That of Allah, the One the Irresistible!
4017 That Day will every soul be requited for what it earned; no injustice will there be that Day, for Allah is Swift in taking account.it is recognizing the LAW of the universe, especially the Unifying force of the world.
Aethists do not recognize any unifying power.
And here i thought a muslim is someone who submits to Allah. Becoz if what you say is true, then an atheist is laughs at the notion of a higher being, is also a muslim if he is peaceful and promotes peace.
I can be convinced otherwise if you show me a verse proving it. I am never above correction
Here are some verses
364 Say "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).
Qul ya ahla alkitabi taAAalaw ila kalimatin sawain baynana wabaynakum alla naAAbuda illa Allaha wala nushrika bihi shayan wala yattakhitha baAAduna baAAdan arbaban min dooni Allahi fain tawallaw faqooloo ishhadoo bianna muslimoon5111 "And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
Waith awhaytu ila alhawariyyeena an aminoo bee wabirasoolee qaloo amanna washhad biannana muslimoon
2278 And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer, give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help!
Wajahidoo fee Allahi haqqa jihadihi huwa ijtabakum wama jaAAala AAalaykum fee addeeni min harajin millata abeekum ibraheema huwa sammakumu almuslimeena min qablu wafee hatha liyakoona arrasoolu shaheedan AAalaykum watakoonoo shuhadaa AAala annasi faaqeemoo assalata waatoo azzakata waAAtasimoo billahi huwa mawlakum faniAAma almawla waniAAma annaseer
Peace!
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Peace be upon you PeacefulMuslim,
idolfree1 wrote
I have not compared being peaceful with believing in God. Thats why I said that "muslim" is anyone who is peaceful/promotes peace.U r right.
Being righteous and peaceful is one aspect makes one a good human being and has its own merit.Absolutely, when we meditate on it, one can only truly be PEACEFUL when they make no divisions, so it concludes that to be peaceful, you have to act from a standpoint of ONENESS.
And believing in One God is another aspect makes one a religious human being. I'd say, it has less merit on its own, if not accompanied with righteousness, as belief and righteousness should go hand in hand. And belief in one God without righteousness, becomes hypocrisy.
Well, all I can do is state my understanding to see if you can see wisdom in it or not. I dont view the God to be an Object, much like the "air", which we verify its exsistence by the EFFECTS on objects. So therefore the God is the subject, not the object. BOTH are ends of the same thing. We are the manifestation of the GOD. It is our job to purify the nafs(energy/matter) so that divine energy(ruh ul qudus) can come through. The metaphor is mary moving away and veiling herself from her family, the chaste woman(purifying nafs(feminine)) bringing forth the Isa(the Will) who was helped by the "ruh ul qudus" (divine energy).
The God at the highest is subjective, (energy/matter at perfect rest, non differentiated), and wills the "energy at rest" into motion, which differentiates the energy into the varying forms of matter (E=MC(2))
Like wind that puts the leaves in motion, giving evidence of its existence. Or like sound, WHAT is it that sets the molecules in motion?
Both of the above, make one, a muslim.
The matter would be settled if you translate the word "muslim" into english like we have done for all other "words". Keeping it untranslated holds some pre concieved ideas in there, that is why it is difficult for us to let go and translate. Anytime "mu" is added to a word, it takes on that characteristic. Mu + salaam is one of peace. Lets translate it as such, not as "Muslim" some sect of mankind. We have no affair with "sects".
However, God's judgement on the day, will be based on everything and will be absolutely just, and its only He who knows all the truth.
4016 The Day whereon they will (all) come forth not a single thing concerning them is hidden from Allah. Whose will be the dominion that Day?" That of Allah, the One the Irresistible!
4017 That Day will every soul be requited for what it earned; no injustice will there be that Day, for Allah is Swift in taking account.That "time" (yawm) is always happening, we are being constantly "judged" by the Universal Law the God has written upon mankind.
idolfree1 wrote
it is recognizing the LAW of the universe, especially the Unifying force of the world.Aethists do not recognize any unifying power.
I urge you to think about this for a second. We are told to believe in the messengers, but we are also told that we have not been told about some, so how can we believe in that which we have no knowledge when the God told us not to go after that which we have no knowledge of?
Well the solution is that when we obey the UNIVERSAL MESSAGE of the God, we automatically are giving evidence that we believe in the message/messengers, all of them, because they all brought the SAME message, just like the same sun shines on us all , past and presesnt. We dont have to know them all, we cant know them all.
Likewise, the word "athesit" is just a title, the evidence comes from actions. If an "athiest" lives in a unified peaceful manner, they are giving EVIDENCE that they follow the One God. Its just that some people cannot see the area between "objective God in the Sky" concept and "no god". They think of the word "god" as a Title rather than a concept like "governor". There is no "governor" but THE Governor", someting like that.
The God is the bodiess intelligence that gives its evidence by the numerical pattern that followed the great expansion. (periodic table of elements, etc). In order to be peaceful(muslim), you have to have a unified mindset. The problem is the literalists fight "allah" against "shiva" against "God" against "Jehovah" etc. Because they still have an objective idea of the God.
Idolfree1
I can be convinced otherwise if you show me a verse proving it. I am never above correctionHere are some verses
364 Say "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).
Qul ya ahla alkitabi taAAalaw ila kalimatin sawain baynana wabaynakum alla naAAbuda illa Allaha wala nushrika bihi shayan wala yattakhitha baAAduna baAAdan arbaban min dooni Allahi fain tawallaw faqooloo ishhadoo bianna muslimoon(364) Say "You people (of) The Book, come to a word equal/straight, between us and you, that we do not serve except God, and we do not share/make partners with Him a thing, and (we) do not take some of us, some (as) lords from other than The God." So if they turned away, so say "Witness/testify with that (we are) peacful."
The verse is sayin O people under universal law (so truth is therefore evident/obeservable), come to a word that is equal/straight, that we do not serve except the God (the uniifying/oneness governing the UNI-verse). We do not make partners with the ALL(God) (we remian wholistic thinikng, not segrative). We do not raise some above others, the governor is The God (doing what is good for the whole and the parts together). So if they turn away, then say "witness that we are peaceful", the most important ability to cultivate, thats why we greet PEACE be upon you.
5111 "And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
Waith awhaytu ila alhawariyyeena an aminoo bee wabirasoolee qaloo amanna washhad biannana muslimoon
(5111) And when I inspired to the deciples that believe in Me and My messenger, they said "We believed and witness with that we truly (are) peaceful". The most important concept.
Submitting to LAW is nothing if you dont apply it to the WHOLE, and that is only achieved by being at peace (non emotional/non differentiated), energy at rest.
2278 And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer, give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help!
Wajahidoo fee Allahi haqqa jihadihi huwa ijtabakum wama jaAAala AAalaykum fee addeeni min harajin millata abeekum ibraheema huwa sammakumu almuslimeena min qablu wafee hatha liyakoona arrasoolu shaheedan AAalaykum watakoonoo shuhadaa AAala annasi faaqeemoo assalata waatoo azzakata waAAtasimoo billahi huwa mawlakum faniAAma almawla waniAAma annaseer
(227 And struggle in The God(unity) a true struggle, He chose you, and He did not make on you in the order any strain/hardship , your father "ibrahim" 's order, He described you the peaceful from before, and in this the messenge to be a witness on you (the real you is unpercievable/hidden), and "you" be witnessing/witnesses on the visable(opposite of hidden-jinn), so maintain the salaa (reasoning), and bring forth purification , and hold fast/take shelter with/by The God, He is your master/ally , so exalted (is) the master/ally , and exalted the helper.
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SaLaM PM and idolfree
I have not compared being peaceful with believing in God. Thats why I said that "muslim" is anyone who is peaceful/promotes peace.
Being righteous and peaceful is one aspect makes one a good human being and has its own merit.
Idolfree, God would disagree with you here
When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds.
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Peace all. Just wanted to bump up this beautiful thread. Idolfree1 at his best...Enjoy... )
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peace enquirer,
Peace all. Just wanted to bump up this beautiful thread. Idolfree1 at his best...Enjoy...
Brother enquirer,I joined freeminds using my original id nabpeace and posted this thread .
I didn?t wanted to talk about controversial issues using my own id known to all my family and friends in Pakistan, because I was scared of their reaction .
Anyway when brother ahmed joined the discussion, there were certain issues I wanted to discuss so I started discussing with him using my new id ?agentxxx? at the forum. Meanwhile I read the forum rules and found out that it was against the rules to have two ids.
I said goodby to nabpeace and have since stuck with agentxxx.I posted these threads as nabpeace
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4335.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4328.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4337.0peace.
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Peace agentxxx. I read the threads you made as nab-peace...Very interesting,and it seems you have compassion,peace and logic uppermost in your thoughts...Same as me!!! )
How is your situation with the 'cliff richard' syndrome now? I hope all is well for you...
I agree that practical 'peace-inspired' behaviour/helping people is the most important thing for me personally...beliefs are sometimes just peoples subjective ideas or understandings,and can be logical or illogical,good or bad,....depending on what they lead to practically...
Fredrich niestsze said; 'What good is knowledge which doesnt relieve human suffering'? (or benefit humans/lead to happiness.)
Peace all. ps;maybe those threads need bumping up too.