According to Quran: Is Paradise only for the Muslims ?
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According to Quran Is Paradise only for the Muslims ?
5-al-maidah
69 -Those who believe (in the Qur'an) those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures) and the Sabians and the Christians any who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.2al-bakrah
62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an) and those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians any who believe in Allah and the last day and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.111 And they say None entereth Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian. These are their own desires. Say Bring your proof (of what ye state) if ye are truthful.
112 Nay, but whosoever surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
22 al-hajj
17 Lo! those who believe (this Revelation), and those who are Jews, and the Sabaeans and the Christians and the Magians and the idolaters--Lo! Allah will decide between them on the Day of Resurrection. Lo! Allah is Witness over all things. -
Peace be upon you,
I repeat, PEACE be upon you Hint Hint!!!
Yes, The Garden(paradise) is for "muslims" only, but the word "muslim" isnot teh title of a religion, it is a desription of a PEACEFUL person.
There are "christian" muslims, "jewish" muslims", "kemetic" muslims. Hindu "muslims" even "atheist" muslims.
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SaLaM nabpeace
2al-bakrah
62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an) and those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians any who believe in Allah and the last day and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.That should answer the question brother.
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Salaamun alaikum Nabpeace,
in my opinion, you should look at the word 'nasara' and 'alladhina haadu', normally translated to 'christian' and 'jew' respectively. In Al-quraan, they dont refer to christians and jews anyway.
There's only one way to al-jannah. That's though al-islaam. But there are many ways to al-islaam (see 5/48 and 29/69).
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Salaamun alaikum Nabpeace,
in my opinion, you should look at the word 'nasara' and 'alladhina haadu', normally translated to 'christian' and 'jew' respectively. In Al-quraan, they dont refer to christians and jews anyway.
There's only one way to al-jannah. That's though al-islaam. But there are many ways to al-islaam (see 5/48 and 29/69).
Peace mquran,
I once raised this issue on the BAZM forum of Ahmed Shabbir about a year ago - that the words nasara and hadoo meant "those who help" and "those who are guided" respectively.
It left them apoplectic and within a few hours the posts were removed.
Regards.
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I believe the verse posted by Jaxal is only talking about the other righteous people from those religions prior to the advant of Islam, i.e. they died before the last message was sent, if they were alive they difinitely would have embrassed Islam because they would have known that it is the same religion they had
anyone who rejects islam after the advant of islam, will not see paradise until the camel go through the hole of the needle
and sure Allah can make the camel go through the hole of the needle
so if we say that Allah does not make these sarcastic comment of the camel going through the hole of the needle (PS the same was repeated in the Bible) as being sarcastic rather being serious, then it is quit possible that all Islam rejectors will end in paradise but after they they pay their due in Hell then Allah make the camel pass through the hole of the needle , I'm very serious here brothers and sisters
Please note "Nasara" difinitely means "Christians"
"Al Lazeen hado" may mean any one who follow the message sent by God and managed to believe in it, and I agree that it should not only mean the Jews but anyone who is "Ihtady", but ahain within the context the Nasara should be classified as "Al Lazeen hado" as well, so I guess it is quite possible the "Al Lazeen hado" may mean "The Jews"
I know that the word Nasara is explicit to describe the Christians I might add some info later regarding this point
peace
Edit fixed a few typos and added a bit of info
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Please note "Nasara" difinitely means "Christians"
Salaam Ahmed,
Can't agree with you there, because Isa asked al-hawariyoon 'man ANSARI ila Allah' . Al-hawariyoon answered 'nahnu ANSAR Allah'. So they're called nasara because they were helpers of Isa.
A Christian directly translates to 'masihi'. In some Arabic countries, they are called 'salibiyoon'.
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once raised this issue on the BAZM forum of Ahmed Shabbir about a year ago - that the words nasara and hadoo meant "those who help" and "those who are guided" respectively.
It left them apoplectic and within a few hours the posts were removed.
The honourable Dr Shabbir whose Quranic knowledge lights the world changes the subject when he can't answer questions. It's really difficult for him to say 'i dont know'. So dont be surprised there, Truth.
Im not sure about 'those who are guided' though, man. I think the root could be 'HWD' which would make it 'those who are approaching'.
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Please note "Nasara" difinitely means "Christians"
Salaam Ahmed,
Can't agree with you there, because Isa asked al-hawariyoon 'man ANSARI ila Allah' . Al-hawariyoon answered 'nahnu ANSAR Allah'. So they're called nasara because they were helpers of Isa.
A Christian directly translates to 'masihi'. In some Arabic countries, they are called 'salibiyoon'.
Thank you mquran
I appreciate your input
I believe the mix is coming from the followimg
Ansara mean to support someone and those were the ones who supported the prophet when he migerated to Al Madina
Nasara is a variation from the same root means christians
believe me bro, this is a common arabic word, in fact in most arabic countries now days they call a charistian Nasrany ""
but Allah knows best as you know, possibly you are right and possibly both of us are wrong, I'm just basing my understanding on the common use for the word Nasrani in the Arabic community now days and as understood from the Arabic Quran
I may find some historical fact and posted it later, but bro, I'm just about to post something regarding a verse in the Quran I would like that you read and comment if you can
peace
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Salaamun alaikum Ahmed,
but Allah knows best as you know, possibly you are right and possibly both of us are wrong, I'm just basing my understanding on the common use for the word Nasrani in the Arabic community now days and as understood from the Arabic Quran
I admire your humility here. I know some people have been pushing you but it would be a shame if you lost control and got banned. People like yourself makes this forum actually beneficial as opposed to being a wankers playground. So keep up the good work please. Doesn't matter if we don't agree. Another point of view's always good.
believe me bro, this is a common arabic word, in fact in most arabic countries now days they call a charistian Nasrany
I understand that and that's always my starting point, how Arabs use the word in the world. I then take the meaning back to al-quraan and see if it works. For 'nasara' being Christians, in my view, al-quraan would not share its root with 'ansaar' unless the meanings were associated in some way. The entity of 'christianity' doesn't seem to exist in quranic thought.
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Hello mquran
I found it bro, it an article that I composed months back when I was debating that Jesus did not die on the cross, please read it to see where I'm coming from regarding the "Nasara" meaning of christians, sorry for the long comment but it is very intersting to read please let me know what do you think
Death on the cross
It was prophet Mohammad who came and glorified Jesus. He countered the accusations of the Jews, and tore down the pagan trappings with which Jesus was no more illegitimate than Adam, His mother Mary, whom the Jews castigated as a prostitute was given a place of greater honor in the Quran than the Christian Bible. To a people who believed in the creation of Adam with neither father nor mother why should it be difficult to believe in the creation of Jesus without a father??God is able from these stones to raise up the children of Abraham?
To the hostile Jews Mohammad confirmed that Jesus was the Christ foretold in the Jews own scripture. He taught that the Jews were speaking an untruth when they claimed to have inflicted an ignoble death on Jesus by hanging him on a cross
(157)?That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not-?
(15 ?Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-?
(159) ?And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-?
(157)
(15
(159)And to the Christians, a waring which is a mercy for them, was revealed to stop their excesses in their religion
(171) ?O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" desist it will be better for you for Allah is one Allah Glory be to Him (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.?
whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.?(172) ?Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah) those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).?
(171)
(172)Modern Biblical research proves this Quranic truth. It is known that there are other Gospels which have different versions of Christ?s passion from that narrated in the four canonical Gospels. The other Gospels were not approved officially by the Church when the Bible was compiles towards the end of the second century. Lately new light has been cast on the beliefs of the early Christians by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, These early Christians knows as Nasoreans or Nazarenes (which tallies with the Quranic name for the follower of Jesus ?Nassara?) were predominant to start with.. The Nazarenes who claimed descent from Jesus?s first disciples came into conflict with Pauline Christians (who follow Paul) and were driven out of Palestine into Syria around 62 AD. The Nazarenes regarded Jesus as a great prophet and righteous man. They accused Paul of heretically substituting Roman customs for the authentic teachings of Jesus and proclaiming him to be God. They refused to celebrate Christmas which they regarded as a pagan feast.
The version of Christ?s Passion contained in the manuscript is that Judas tricked the Jews by substituting another man in place of Jesus. This other man vehemently denied before Herod and Pilate the charge that he claimed to be the Messiah (Christ). According to this version is was Herod, and not Pilat, who took a basin of water and washed his hands of the accused man?s blood to show that he did not find any guilt in him. Then Herod locked up the supposed Jesus for the night; but the next morning he was seized upon by the Jesus who tortured him and ultimately crucified him.
This version of the story of crucifixion makes the pathetic lamentations attributed by canonical Gospels to Jesus on the cross more sensible. For an ordinary unknown man to behave in such a way is excusable. But for the man of God to declare at the time of trial, or even for a leader of a people with guts in him, to cry out aloud in front of a crowd
?My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me??
is to set the least below dignity of a leader.
If the crucified man was Jesus, and if Jesus was God who knew that He had come down to earth in order to be crucified for the sins of humanity, the absurdity would be shattering.
Upton Sinclair wrote in his book A Personal Jesus
?You perceive that those who tell the story cannot make up their mind whether Jesus is God or whether he is man. Truly it is a difficult problem, once you admit such thing as a possibility that God may take on form of a man and come down to earth. When he becomes man, is He man or is He still God? And how can He be betrayed, when He knows He is going to be betrayed? The legend never answers clearly for basically it is an absurdity and there can be no answer, nor even any rational thought on such subject.?
?If Jesus is God, He knows everything in advance. But in that case the procedure means nothing to Him, He is like an actor going through a role, and it must have been a rather tedious role to Omniscience. Is He doing it for the entertainment of children? If so, why not encourage the children to grow up mentally and face the truth? On the other hand, if he is a man and has the mind of a man, then he no longer knows the truth, he no longer posses the comfort of omniscience. The legend requires that we shall believe both these things at the same time; but manifestly, a man cannot know something and at the same time grop half-blindly as we human beings are doing all through our lives.?
The riddle which perplexes honest intelligent readers of the Gospels like Upton Sinclair is resolved by the Nasorean version of the story of crucifixion. By that version Jesus is absolved from cowardice, fickleness and shallowness of faith in God as shamefully and cowardly demonstrated by the crucified man. The fickleness and detection of the disciples as reported in the Gospels also fall into position if we take it that the crucified man was not their Messiah. The disciples are therefore cleared from the charges of cowardice, treachery, falsehood and lack of faith in their leader at the most critical time. The man they sold, denied or doubted was truly unknown to them. He was not their Master.
The ?apocryphal? (hidden Gospel of Barnabas reports that it was Judas who was crucified in the place of Jesus, and the Basildon sect of the early Christians believed that it was Simon the Cyrene who was crucified, not Jesus. According to all three synoptic Gospels it was this man who made to carry the cross for Jesus. Only John makes Jesus carry his cross. This is a very significant point.
Thanks for reading bro
peace
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Salaamun alaikum Ahmed,
SA Brother
I admire your humility here. I know some people have been pushing you but it would be a shame if you lost control and got banned. People like yourself makes this forum actually beneficial as opposed to being a wankers playground. So keep up the good work please. Doesn't matter if we don't agree. Another point of view's always good.
Thank you man, likewise and it seems one of those mutual things between me and you, no bro I was not pushed, I;m in full control, I just did not know the rules but now I'm fully aware of it and it is hard that I get intimidated, but I apprecite you advise for sure
I understand that and that's always my starting point, how Arabs use the word in the world. I then take the meaning back to al-quraan and see if it works. For 'nasara' being Christians, in my view, al-quraan would not share its root with 'ansaar' unless the meanings were associated in some way. The entity of 'christianity' doesn't seem to exist in quranic thought.
sure bro that is why the Quran came in Arabic and was revealed to the arabic community, sure most words will be common to the arabic comunity especially it challenged them to write three lines like it, if it was really using weird arabic words then the challenge given does not make sense, but it will make sense if the Quran is talking like the arabs talk and I can assure you bro without any misleading, it does and I found it easy to understand since I was 13 years old and without the help of any,
now for the word, Nasara refers to the town where Jesus came from I forgot the name in english but it is sort of Nadaria or on the same rythem, possibly others can help me here, it is sure the name of a town
so this is where the mix came from I'm sure as Ansara is very close in the letters
but putting the arabic words to its root then comparing it is never an accurate way to know what it means, especially when the meaning is common, otherwise we will end with many words that mean a lot of things man
also in the context of the verse the meaning of "to support" does not fit at all logically speaking because "To Support " does not mean "To Believe" and those people were promised paradise so they must have been true beliveres
Allah knows best
peace be with you
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Salaamun alaikum AB,
Thank you man, likewise and it seems one of those mutual things between me and you, no bro I was not pushed, I;m in full control, I just did not know the rules but now I'm fully aware of it and it is hard that I get intimidated, but I apprecite you advise for sure
Ah, well that advice goes for me too. It's the provocative language these people sometimes use, thats all.
sure bro that is why the Quran came in Arabic and was revealed to the arabic community, sure most words will be common to the arabic comunity especially it challenged them to write three lines like it, if it was really using weird arabic words then the challenge given does not make sense, but it will make sense if the Quran is talking like the arabs talk and I can assure you bro without any misleading, it does and I found it easy to understand since I was 13 years old and without the help of any,
Up to a point I agree with you but I feel the need to filter meaning back to al-quraan itself. Take the word 'ibada'. Its a common word in the muslim world yet when you take it back to al-quraan, it roots itself in various maqaam and sheds a whole new world-view. I've seen this for myself and am amazed by it. My point is, al-quraan must be taken as a criteria to determine meaning.
now for the word, Nasara refers to the town where Jesus came from I forgot the name in english but it is sort of Nadaria or on the same rythem, possibly others can help me here, it is sure the name of a town
Yes, Nazareth. See, here's where my problem begins. I believe this information was intentionally left out of al-quraan because it bears no relevance to the meaning of nasara. To me, al-quraan sufficiently sheds
light on the nasara meaning through 'ansar'.also in the context of the verse the meaning of "to support" does not fit at all logically speaking because "To Support " does not mean "To Believe" and those people were promised paradise so they must have been true beliveres
That's a good point. I think 3/52 solves it though with 'amanna billah' after Isa asked 'man ansaari ilaa Allah'. What do you think?
Many thanks again for this discussion.
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Salaamun alaikum AB,
Ah, well that advice goes for me too. It's the provocative language these people sometimes use, thats all.
Salam bro
yeh man I'm cool and will stay cool
Up to a point I agree with you but I feel the need to filter meaning back to al-quraan itself. Take the word 'ibada'. Its a common word in the muslim world yet when you take it back to al-quraan, it roots itself in various maqaam and sheds a whole new world-view. I've seen this for myself and am amazed by it. My point is, al-quraan must be taken as a criteria to determine meaning.
I agree man and I have no question about it and inshaaallah I have the answer for you from the Quran that "Nasara" means Christians, it is just a coincidence that ?Ansara? is similar in letters, but I stress bro that they are different in meaning and the Quran will prove it shortly
Yes, Nazareth.
that?s the one, thanks bro
See, here's where my problem begins.
you should not have any problem man, if you know an honest and fluent Arabic speaker then you have no problem whatsoever
I believe this information was intentionally left out of al-quraan because it bears no relevance to the meaning of nasara. To me, al-quraan sufficiently sheds light on the nasara meaning through 'ansar'.
for a first few impressions yes, but the truth is different my friend, the Quran will shortly confirms that
That's a good point. I think 3/52 solves it though with 'amanna billah' after Isa asked 'man ansaari ilaa Allah'. What do you think?
this is also a good point by you that the verse started with ?Amanna? which means all what will be listed are already ?believers? including the one who support assuming that Nasara means to support for the time being, but I agree with you regarding the Quran explains itself, verse 352 actually confirms that it is to support, I will put the verse here then show you the verse that confirm the meaning of Nasara
?When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples "We are Allah's helpers We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.?
(52)
-> In the above verse, the Arabic word used was ?? which means ?Supporter? and is also a common Arabic word that means exactly ?Supporter?, the word here was used in Jesus question after he felt many of the people around him starting to flaw in the belief, and he wanted his message to be delivered and asked who will support him, the quran clearly says that only the DISCIPLES answered and confirmed that they will be ?SUPPORTERS OF ALLAH? then they declared their believe and their submission to Allah ?Islam? ? , ? "We are Allah's helpers We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.?
There should not be any mix up here man with the Arabic word ?ANSAR? which is a very common Arabic name that means ?to Help?, ?To help in causing another one to be victories?, ?To support?, this is why I don?t believe that the disciples sold Jesus and denied that it was him while it was him.
The Quran came clear and identified to us what ?Nasara? means as Christians, let?s look at the following verse which in the same sura
YUSUFALI Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.
PICKTHAL Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
SHAKIR Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.
Literal Abraham was not a Jew and nor a Christian and but (he) was (a) true submitter/Moslem/Unifier of God a Moslem/submitter, and (he) was not from the sharers/takers of partners (with God).
Free-Minds Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene, but he was a monotheist who surrendered; he was not of those who set up partners.
Rashad Khalifa Abraham was neither Jewish, nor Christian; he was a monotheist submitter. He never was an idol worshiper.
(67)
-> very clear bro, this verse were revealed when the Christians claimed that Abraham was a Christian and also the Jew claimed that Abraham was a Jewish, my note here is FreeMind translation, I believe it is wrong to translate it as ? Nazarene? (while I agree that it means the people from this town as I explained earlier, the context here means the Follower of Jesus who was from that town ?The Christians? , ?The Nasara?), because they have contradicted themselves if they don?t translate it as ?Christian?, my logic is this
The verse is telling us that Abraham was not a Jewish nor a Christian but a Muslim, and you will see that all 6 translations agreed on the Jew and translated as ?Jewish?, while 4 of the 5 translations agreed with the literal translation of ?Nasara?, which is ?A Christian? as far as I know for 40 years man this is the only meaning, so for FreeMind to go with figurative meaning like ?New Yorkers? may confuse the readers of the non Arabic Quran (Translation I mean).
Allah knows best
Many thanks again for this discussion.
Thank you man anf peace be with you ?happy eid?
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peace Ahmed,
you wroteanyone who rejects islam after the advant of islam, will not see paradise until the camel go through the hole of the needle
546-And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary confirming the law that had come before him We sent him the Gospel therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
547-Let the people of the Gospel Judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed they are (no better than) those who rebel.brother if you are right then tell me why? even after the advent of Islam the people of the gospel are advised to judge by what Allah hath revealed therein?
bye. -
Peace be upon you all,
anyone who rejects islam after the advant of islam, will not see paradise until the camel go through the hole of the needle
Peacefulness(islam has been the way since the beginning of creation, there is no "advent" of "islam".
Is the God saying that all the other people in the world like Buddists, Taoists, Hindus, American Indians, Kemetans, Zulus, etc etc are wicked and not worthy of the "garden"?
What about the sabians mentioned? Why is there no further talk of them like there is further talk of "nasara" and "hadoo"?
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peace Ahmed,
you wroteanyone who rejects islam after the advant of islam, will not see paradise until the camel go through the hole of the needle
546-And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary confirming the law that had come before him We sent him the Gospel therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
547-Let the people of the Gospel Judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed they are (no better than) those who rebel.brother if you are right then tell me why? even after the advent of Islam the people of the gospel are advised to judge by what Allah hath revealed therein?
bye.Bro, what I said above is from the Quran "Not from me" i will show the verses later inshaallah
the request from people of the gospel to judge with what Allah revealed was at their time when there was no Quran, now a new request is on the table which is to Judge by the preserved revelation because they corrupted theirs
peace
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Peace be upon you all,
anyone who rejects islam after the advant of islam, will not see paradise until the camel go through the hole of the needle
Peacefulness(islam has been the way since the beginning of creation, there is no "advent" of "islam".
sorry bro, Islam means submission to Allah, this peacefulness to describe Islam is nothing but a joke, sorry, to be peaceful is part of being A Submitter to Allah though, and part of that submission is not to be peaceful with the enmy of our religion who want to kill us
Is the God saying that all the other people in the world like Buddists, Taoists, Hindus, American Indians, Kemetans, Zulus, etc etc are wicked and not worthy of the "garden"?
Yes your God is saying this in the Quran, thanks
What about the sabians mentioned? Why is there no further talk of them like there is further talk of "nasara" and "hadoo"?
please elaborate
peace
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
sorry bro, Islam means submission to Allah, this peacefulness to describe Islam is nothing but a joke, sorry
Where is the word "allah" in "islam"?
to be peaceful is part of being A Submitter to Allah though, and part of that submission is not to be peaceful with the enmy of our religion who want to kill us
You have to be peaceful so as not to get REVENGE but instead to want your enemy to understand Truth and correct themselves.
idolfree1 wrote
Is the God saying that all the other people in the world like Buddists, Taoists, Hindus, American Indians, Kemetans, Zulus, etc etc are wicked and not worthy of the "garden"?Yes your God is saying this in the Quran, thanks
Where?
idolfree1 wrote
What about the sabians mentioned? Why is there no further talk of them like there is further talk of "nasara" and "hadoo"?please elaborate
We dont really need to take this further. You will need to understand that it is not only Europeans and Arabs that go to paradise, and the africans , chinese, and hindus ect go to hell.