status of women - as seen from The Quran
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Peace warner,
Although Brother Yaseen makes some interesting points can not agree with his view
that Polygamy is not allowed in the Quraan .423
Pickthall.....And (it is forbidden unto you) that ye should have two sisters together
Yusuf Ali.....and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time except for what is pastIf polygamy is not allowed the above quoted part of the verse 423 will not be necessary .
Since you cannot marry 2 or more at the same time how can the question of having 2 sisters at the same
time can be an issue.This is my humble opinion from the Quraan , Please add your thoughts.
Sorry warner, you have no point.
Allah does not allow polygamy ANYWHERE in al-qur'aan.
Firstly, 423 is not permission for polygamy. People used to practice polygamy before revelation of al-qur'aan because they were not following Allah's laws. 423 mentions about a special case of polygamy with 2 sisters which was being practiced BEFORE revelation of al-qur'aan, and Allah forbids that practice after revelation of this verse, but forgives people who did it in the past before the revelation of that verse. This DOES NOT MEAN that Allah is allowing bigamy with 2 sisters.
Secondly, in al-qur'aan, including 43, Allah nowhere allows polygamy, so saying that 423 implies that polygamy is allowed creates CONTRADICTION in Allah's words.
Brother Yaseen's answer to you is as follows, quoted from his article
"Is there ?bigamy? through verse 423?
Prohibited to are- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-
?Verse 423? is not about polygamy, or bigamy. It is about incest and incestuous relationships. ?Polygamy? is only visible to a conditioned mind that has taken ?polygamy? as an acceptable practice. The above verse lists the categories of women who are unlawful to a man for marriage be it polygamous or monogamous; you can?t marry your mother and your daughter simultaneously or separately. If any of these types of marriages was in place at the time of revelation, this would not and could not have continued under any circumstances. The last mention in this chain list of incestuous relationships is the ?joining? between the two sisters, that is being married to two sisters at the same time and the exception that follows it, only refers to this latter incestuous relationship only. For those who still insist in seeing polygamy/bigamy, I will ask them one simple question
What about if one was married to 3 sisters at the same time, should he divorce one of the sisters after receiving this revelation?
The main point is in the same way that God did not command believers to free all slaves at once, He also did not command them to divorce all wives except one from polygamous marriages (if say one was married to 3 wives or more), the exception made through incestuous relationships mentioned in verse 423 is for a believer not to divorce any of the two sisters, although the latter is more of an incestuous situation before being a simple polygamous case.
Now if we accept that verse 43 is not about polygamy, are we going to search for bigamy through verse 423?"
Link for the above quote
http//www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/polygamy.html
Regards,
Tanveer
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Salam,
also the quran mentions the WIVES of the prophet.That would mean if quran does not allow polygamy,the prophet would have been breaking quranic rules??That is absurd!
Salam..just my thoughts..any ideas?
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Peace all,
also the quran mentions the WIVES of the prophet.That would mean if quran does not allow polygamy,the prophet would have been breaking quranic rules??That is absurd!
Good point. I would add however that the qur'aan allows polygyny and not polyandry. Reference 424 where we are forbidden to marry "mohsanat"/committed/protected women which includes married women.
Since my last post above, after a lot of deliberation, discussion and research on this topic, I have arrived at a new understanding that polygyny is allowed by The God by virtue of not forbidding it in the qur'aan. In 423 The God is acknowledging the presence of polygyny by forbidding polygyny with 2 sisters, but does not forbid polygyny with other women, hence permitting polygyny with women other than sisters.
Having said that I still have the understanding that 43 is not about polygyny but is about marrying off the mothers of orphans in groups. For details please see the following link from another thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5843.msg90163#msg90163
Even if 43 talks about polygyny, the mothers of the orphans are to be married in a group at the same time, with a maximum of 4 at the same time.
The limit of wives in polygyny would be 4 not because of 43, but because of definition of zina according to the qur'aan. Please see the following link for definition of zina
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5843.msg89825#msg89825
So if four people witnessed a MARRIED man and woman having intercourse, then the man and woman ARE a "zani" and "zaniyah", even though they are MARRIED.
Thus the limit in a polygynous relationship has to be 4 wives because if a man has 5 wives then it will become zina because then there will be 4 witnesses to the intercourse between the husband and the 5th wife.
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Salaam All,
"He it is Who has sent down the book to you In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say ?We believe in the book; the whole of it is from Rabbana (our Lord)? and none will grasp the message except those humans of understanding (7) chapter 3.
To me and I might be wrong, but the whole issue of heaven is metaphorical. In Bible there were some people were always trying to trip Messiah Isa, so he answered them that we will be like angels in heaven.
God has given us humans reasoning, rational, reasonable, coherent, analytical, investigative, critical, methodical, questioning, dissecting, logical, beautiful mind, this is our (humans) advantage over the angels. This is the advantage given to us by our Sustainer. I hope we don't lose this advantage in heaven.
Mohamed
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I once wrote a 20 page paper on Womens right in Islam based on Quran alone. If anyone likes to read it, then I am more than glad to post it up. If you can stomach 20 pages. )
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Hi,
I find the progressive Islam interpretation is more compatible with my conscience. However, I cannot understand why Quran proposes to allow polygamy for those widowed when helping people should not expect anything in return. That is, those married men could just offer financial help without requiring marriage and also there is hardly anyone can treat all wives justly. Polygamy is a worldwide ancient practice. Most major religions have outlawed this why can't Islam? In trying to defend polygamy, Islam render itself to more questionings like why Prophet has more than 10 wives and now muslims are allowed a max of 4 and why not all wives of the Prophet are widowed? Now those muslims that practised polygamy are not those of widows and not enough bachelors to marry them - many just keep taking younger girls as wives.
Since there is so much different from the progressive Islam and those in the ME, Africa and India and parkistan and now SEA, who no attempt to teach them the right version of Islam.
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I once wrote a 20 page paper on Womens right in Islam based on Quran alone. If anyone likes to read it, then I am more than glad to post it up. If you can stomach 20 pages. )
Welcome Reza! It's a nice feeling to know there's another person who sees the quran as a mercy and healing from God D. BTW, I'll like to read it.
peace brother, may God advance us in knowledge. )
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Hi,
I find the progressive Islam interpretation is more compatible with my conscience. However, I cannot understand why Quran proposes to allow polygamy for those widowed when helping people should not expect anything in return. That is, those married men could just offer financial help without requiring marriage and also there is hardly anyone can treat all wives justly. Polygamy is a worldwide ancient practice. Most major religions have outlawed this why can't Islam? In trying to defend polygamy, Islam render itself to more questionings like why Prophet has more than 10 wives and now Muslims are allowed a max of 4 and why not all wives of the Prophet are widowed? Now those Muslims that practiced polygamy are not those of widows and not enough bachelors to marry them - many just keep taking younger girls as wives.
Since there is so much different from the progressive Islam and those in the ME, Africa and India and Pakistan and now SEA, who no attempt to teach them the right version of Islam.
In the name of Allah, The Beneficent, The Merciful
Salam Aleykom Wa Rahmatula,
Dear Brother/Sister (Sorry I haven't figured out who's a brother and who's a sister on this forum)What you are doing is the best thing to understand Islam (True ISLAM). You are thinking and questioning. I will do my best to explain what I know about polygamy. It was a huge topic I covered in my paper.
You have to keep in mind that the Quran came down for ALL of mankind. Therefore it can never be outdated. It came for the Arabs (and all of mankind) 1400 years ago, and it came for everyone else 1400+ years from now (given that Judgment Day hasn't come yet).
Quran allowes polygamy to satisfy the people back then as well as today, but, there is a HUGE factor involved. As long as you can do justice to each and every single one then you are allowed to have up to four wives. This is one of the criteria. Which we know, it is impossible. It is hard not to favor one over the other, and by hard I mean practically IMPOSSIBLE. Also, if you THINK you cant do it, then you wont be able to do it. Look at all those people who cheat on their wives, they get caught or leave their first wife. Why is that? Well, first, they committing adultery, second, they can't do justice to both women. There are other factors involved but treating them both equally is one of the byproducts.
A stronger point that one could make is that the Quran prohibits exchanging wives, or adding wives because one is younger or "better" than the other. I'm sure you know all this, but it is a good reminder, and I will make my point more clear.
So, with all of these criterion's, Allah makes it probable with a very small chance.How many of us can actually practice polygamy properly? We'll, I'd say 1% of the world, not Moslem's. And thats being very generous.
Consider the social factor in this.• ]Out of the 1% of the people in the world, which of them have the financial means to practice such a thing?
• How many of them have the patience.
Trust me, ask anyone if they have a perfect marriage and they will say no. Considering two people with different backgrounds, different families, different experiences, there is bound to be disagreements, arguing and much "fighting", overall, discomfort at times. My brother were born and raised in the same house, have had very similar experiences, but we argue and bicker left and right, let alone if the person was not of family and from a different background with different experiences in life.
• How many are TRUE believing Moslem's that wish to practice polygamy of that 1%?
Looking at the world today with their sects and divisions and the following of other books other than The Holy and Noble Quran...Not to say I know whose going to hell or whose on the right path or not, but from what I gather from the Quran.
• How many of the 1% are 100% sure they can do it?
Consider the factors we have already put. The more factors are put in, the smaller the chance, and it is incalculable. 0.00000001% chance? maybe? Idk.
• How many of them have pure intentions?
Look at the world today as a whole, people are slaves to their looks, weight, height, etc. They do anything to look good. How is this relevant? Men look for the sexiest women to be with. Thats not a pure intentions. Looks have nothing to do with the qualities within. So how many will actually marry another wife without such a thought in the back of their minds?
But! Lets say there is a superhuman that is able to do all things. Just for the heck of it. Why not? It COULD happen right?
I'll agree, it could. You never know.I would like to ask this In a world where women have much more power and freedom, which woman in the world today would allow her husband to get another wife? How would you even bring the subject up? I know Quran allowes, and lets say your wife is a true believer. Do REALLY think she's gonna let that fly?
The answer is no. But lets say you do anyway. You marry another woman. You have two wives! Mission accomplished! Wait...where did you other wife go? She wont stick around, she'll divorce you in a heartbeat.
Also, lets look at the world, the world doesn't allow polygamy as a whole in their systems of Law. So one comes to think, considering all these variables, what Allah, The Beneficent, The Merciful has said, current social norms, current systems of law, and personal issues, it becomes practically impossible to marry a second wife. BUT, don't forget, Quran allows it, with severe, strict punishment/retribution if you go wrong.
Personally, I fear Allah and hell SO much, the thought of marrying two wives doesn't even cross my mind. Because one second erring could bring you severe punishment.
One last point, whose to say that polygamy is outdated and ancient? Can anyone see into the future? You never know, it could make a huge comback for all we know.
In the U.S. there are 30 million more women than men. If my sister was one of them, I would have her marry a man who has a wife already, than have her be public property.
InshaAllah that cleared things up a little. Forgive my grammatical errors if there are any or spelling mistakes
Allahu Akbar. -
Peace...
i hadn't seen that one
If my sister was one of them, I would have her marry a man who has a wife already, than have her be public property.
Sorry reda, or anyone else thinking that way. A woman is noones property, just as a man... and specially not public property just because unmarried.
lk