The Torah prohibts the swine clearly
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The prohibition comes from Torah, in the book Leviticus, Chapter 11,
verses 2 through 8, in particular, verse 7- And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, 2
- Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts
which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. - Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the
cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. - Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or
of them that divide the hoof as the camel, because he cheweth the
cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. - And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the
hoof; he is unclean unto you. - And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the
hoof; he is unclean unto you. - And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet
he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. - Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not
touch; they are unclean to you.
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This is a Pig
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/pig/pig.jpgThis is a pig feet with divided hoof, yummy
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/pig/pigsfeet.jpg -
Ahmed,
The Torah, is not the Book of Guidance to mankind...Al-Quran, however, is. It is the FINAL AUTHORITY on what is from Allah. So, quoting from it, unless Allah, specifically, tells us to to refer to it for a specific reason, is absolutely irrelevent. Again, Al-Quran, explains itself. Don't you know these things yet?wink
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This is a Pig
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/pig/pig.jpgThis is a pig feet with divided hoof, yummy
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/pig/pigsfeet.jpgAnd it's called a...HOOF...not a claw. rotfl You, see, whether divided or not divided, it still remains a HOOF lol Ayat 6146 will haunt you forever until you accept it and move on. wink
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The hoof is not an issue here
the pig was prohibited because it chews not the cud
very clear in this uncorrupted part of the Torah that I believe in exactly as I believe in the whole Quran
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The hoof is not an issue here
the pig was prohibited because it chews not the cud
very clear in this uncorrupted part of the Torah that I believe in exactly as I believe in the whole Quran
Of course hoof is the issue, because a hoof is not a claw. Tell you what, find me the Quranic term for undivided hoof, can you do that?, if so, then you may have a point, however, if you cannot, then you are following conjecture and superstition and have no point.
You continue to refer t the Torah, a corrupted/unreliable book. Allah, per ayat 2185, has made it crystal clear that the FINAL REVELATION--Al-Quran, is the GUIDANCE to mankind. Additonally, YOU DON'T KNOW, for a fact, what parts of the Torah are uncorrupted, so don't even go there.
I'll ask you again. Allah made haram to the Jews all animals with claws. Pigs, not having claws, is not represented in that group. You assert the Torah does make the pig haram. Well, which Book's account do you accept...Al-Quran's or the Torah?
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As I said mister fake
the incident of tahrim in the Quran is differnt to the tahrim of the pork
the tahrim in the Quran was about good food that became forbidden as a punishment
The filthy pig was not a good food and is not inclided in the menu
please don't get piggy with me lol
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As I said mister fake
the incident of tahrim in the Quran is differnt to the tahrim of the pork
the tahrim in the Quran was about good food that became forbidden as a punishment
The filthy pig was not a good food and is not inclided in the menu
please don't get piggy with me lol
You continue to refer t the Torah, a corrupted/unreliable book. Allah, per ayat 2185, has made it crystal clear that the FINAL REVELATION--Al-Quran, is the GUIDANCE to mankind. Additonally, YOU DON'T KNOW, for a fact, what parts of the Torah are uncorrupted, so don't even go there.
I'll ask you again. Allah made haram to the Jews all animals with claws. Pigs, not having claws, is not represented in that group. You assert the Torah does make the pig haram. Well, which Book's account do you accept...Al-Quran's or the Torah?
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Peace,
Why is this discussion even taking place?
I can undertsand debates concerning issues which require more in-depth study or a collection of verses...But the issue of the Pig is not even one where a novice of the Scripture would differ in.
Please move on to more constructive discussions...
"He has only forbidden for you what is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God. Whoever finds himself forced out of need and without disobedience or animosity, then there is no sin upon him. God is Forgiving, Merciful." (The Message 2173)
"Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted surrender as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful." (The Message 55)
"Say ?I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God.? Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. " (The Message 6147)
"He only made forbidden for you what is already dead, and blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to any other than God. But whoever is forced to, without disobedience or transgression, then God is Forgiving, Merciful." (The Message 16116)
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Peace Layth,
This discussion is taking place for 2 reasons
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Priestbokmei / Dhul qarnain or whatever he calls himself has mocked the laws of your forum by sneaking in. Funnily, he's not been rebanned.
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The aforementioned feels the need to actually change the clear Arabic language despite there being no quranic evidence to do so. He also says you don't need arabic to understand the quran.
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PEACE, LAYTH,
If you are supporting that the pig is haram, then would you give us an indepth explanation of how that can be true, in light of the following ayats? To date, no one has presented a logical and coherent Quranic explanation fr how the pig can be haram in light of them. I was hoping that you, Wakas, and Nabi, would either refute these ayats, by way of Al-Quran, or support them. Looking forward to your reply.
4160 For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah's Way;-
55 This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them...
6146 For those who followed the Jewish Law, We made haram every (animal) with claws, and We forbade them that fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone this in recompense for their wilful disobedience for We are true (in Our ordinances).
Translation16116 But say not - for any false thing that your tongues may put forth,- "This is halal, and this is haram," so as to ascribe false things to Allah. For those who ascribe false things to Allah, will never prosper.
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Peace Layth,
This discussion is taking place for 2 reasons
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Priestbokmei / Dhul qarnain or whatever he calls himself has mocked the laws of your forum by sneaking in. Funnily, he's not been rebanned.
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The aforementioned feels the need to actually change the clear Arabic language despite there being no quranic evidence to do so. He also says you don't need arabic to understand the quran.
When you attempt to call down trouble on others, slander and misrepresent them....watch that trouble does not come down on you. Allah, knows both of our hearts...and mine is light...hope yours is too.
The war on this planet is war of ideas, hence, Allah, takes seriously the kinds of ideas being stated in His name. Think about that, would you before you defame and wish ill on believers. -
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Peace be upon you,
Dont let him bring you down!
Dont let him do it
The good response is not equal to the bad response.
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Peace MQ,
- Priestbokmei / Dhul qarnain or whatever he calls himself has mocked the laws of your forum by sneaking in. Funnily, he's not been rebanned.
This issue has been resolved with one username currently in operation. As for the previous banning, that has been suspended based on the word of the user to adhere to the forum rules.
Peace Dhul,
If you are supporting that the pig is haram, then would you give us an indepth explanation of how that can be true, in light of the following ayats? To date, no one has presented a logical and coherent Quranic explanation fr how the pig can be haram in light of them. I was hoping that you, Wakas, and Nabi, would either refute these ayats, by way of Al-Quran, or support them. Looking forward to your reply.
The verses that were presented (4 of them) have just been totally ignored and discounted and you have gone off on a totally different tangent speaking of the Jews and their teachings.
The verses forbidding the meat of pig are not to be ignored and these are the commands we follow.
As for the issue of the food of Jews, the foods that were made unlawful for them moreso than the normal restrictions have been listed in 6146 (which you have quoted).
55 This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them...
And it says a couple of verses before that
"Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted surrender as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Let us not be like some Jews who pick & choose verses...We take the whole of the Scripture or none at all.
"But then here you are killing each other and driving out a group of you from their homes; you act towards them with evil and animosity. And if they come to you as prisoners, you ransom them while it was forbidden for you to drive them out! Do you believe in some of the Scripture and disbelieve in some? The punishment for those amongst you who do so is humiliation in this worldly life, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be returned to the most severe retribution. God is not unaware of what you all do. " (The Message 285)
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Peace,
Why is this discussion even taking place?
I can undertsand debates concerning issues which require more in-depth study or a collection of verses...But the issue of the Pig is not even one where a novice of the Scripture would differ in.
Please move on to more constructive discussions...
"He has only forbidden for you what is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God. Whoever finds himself forced out of need and without disobedience or animosity, then there is no sin upon him. God is Forgiving, Merciful." (The Message 2173)
"Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted surrender as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful." (The Message 55)
"Say ?I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God.? Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. " (The Message 6147)
"He only made forbidden for you what is already dead, and blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to any other than God. But whoever is forced to, without disobedience or transgression, then God is Forgiving, Merciful." (The Message 16116)
Peace mate
it is happening because PBM is trying hard to suggest that The pork was not forbidden on the muslims, and sure it is forbidden from the verses he is using and you posted, however he is coming with a different silly argument that The Quran never forbid the pork on the jew which sound very silly and laughable lol
peace
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PEACE, LAYTH,
DHULQARNANE If you are supporting that the pig is haram, then would you give us an indepth explanation of how that can be true, in light of the following ayats? To date, no one has presented a logical and coherent Quranic explanation fr how the pig can be haram in light of them. I was hoping that you, Wakas, and Nabi, would either refute these ayats, by way of Al-Quran, or support them. Looking forward to your reply.
The verses that were presented (4 of them) have just been totally ignored and discounted and you have gone off on a totally different tangent speaking of the Jews and their teachings.
I think you have me confused with ahmed, mquram, and truth. I have not been speaking of any teachings by the Jews, just the opposite. I'm staying in Al-Quran. Allah, per ayat 6146, contrary to the teachings of the Jews and some others here, is telling us exactly what species of animals He made haram to the Jews. This ayat contradicts and calls the Jews liars when they say Allah made pigs haram. He didn't make pigs haram, because the species of animals He made haram have claws and not hooves. Do you agree with me up to this point?
If you do, then you will agree that, mankind, cannot make something haram which Allah hasn't? Do you agree with me here?
If so, it is clear, per ayat 6146, that Allah never made the pig haram to the Jews (because the declared haram species have claws not hooves), hence, when ayat 55 says that their food is lawful to us, the pig has to be halal for both them and us, because Allah never made it haram to the Jews. Do you see this clear line of events?
Looking forward to your reply.
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it is happening because PBM is trying hard to suggest that The pork was not forbidden on the muslims, and sure it is forbidden from the verses he is using and you posted, however he is coming with a different silly
argument that The Quran never forbid the pork on the jew which sound very silly and laughable
Only to those who, of set mind, forgo knowledge and enbrace superstition. If your heart is sincere about representing Allah faithfully, then, one day this argument, as well as many others, will not seem so silly...it is only a matter of time.
