Iblis?
-
Salam all,
In the past, from 234, 1530-31, 1850, 20116117 I understood that Iblis is an "angel" who disobeys the order of his Lord but now I change my mind about it and think he was not one of the "angels".
I will give some arguments in the light of the Reading later inshallah.Salam
-
Peace be upon you Marie,
Why are you teasing us?
I look foward to your response.
Curently, I take Iblis as the force of Desperation/Obsession. The shayteen are the thoughts/emotions that make up "iblis".
-
Peace sister
Iblis was always from the Jinn as the Quran told us
Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam" They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!
(50)
Peace Marie
-
Salaamun alaikum guys,
If Allah commanded 'al-malaaika' (wa idz qulna li al-malaaika) then they made sajda (fasajadoo) except iblees (illa iblees). So why doesn't the quran say 'we said to the angels and the jinn' ? I must have missed out something here. Your thoughts please.
-
Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam" They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!
-
Peace be upon you all,
I agree with MQ. Did the God punish a jinn because it did not obey a comand given ONLY to malaika?
Marie! Hurry up! Its about to get crowded in here D You know this is a hot topic D
-
Peace be upon you Jaxal,
No God punished the jinn becoz it did not obey God's command
Which was?
-
Peace be upon you Jaxal,
Also
...They bowed down except Iblis
Who is the THEY being spoken of?
-
Peace
The point here is this
true it can be understood that Iblis was an angel (from the exception of the malika preseeding the exception), however this will contradict the Quran, because the Quran stated that Iblis is one of the Jinn, as well the Jinn were created from fire as the Quran told us
"And the jinn We created before, of intensely hot fire."
(27)
1527
"(Allah) said "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said "I am better than he Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."
(12)
712
From the above 2 verses as well what was posted before, it is more logical that Iblis was a Jinn but was given a higher status to be up there with the angels, however he was ordered to prostrate assuming the prder was to all who were up there
I lean to believe that Iblis was given a higher status while staying as Jinn, this higher status has put him in the company of the Angels
Allah knows best
-
Peace be upon you Ahmed,
true it can be understood that Iblis was an angel (from the exception of the malika preseeding the exception),
This reading(quran) leaves no doubt about that. The God comanded al malaikah, there was no other being mentioned and the God did not forget to add Jinn.
however this will contradict the Quran, because the Quran stated that Iblis is one of the Jinn
No, there is just the misunderstanidng of the term jinn. Jinn means "hidden", the malaika are part of the hidden(jinn). That is all that is being said, so there is no contradiction.
Regarding jinn being made of fire, what does that tell us? We are NEVER told what the malaika are made of, so how can that prove anything?
-
Salaam Ahmed,
From the above 2 verses as well what was posted before, it is more logical that Iblis was a Jinn but was given a higher status to be up there with the angels, however he was ordered to prostrate assuming the prder was to all who were up there
I lean to believe that Iblis was given a higher status while staying as Jinn, this higher status has put him in the company of the Angels
We werent actually told the nature of al-malaaika, so I don't see a contradiction. Iblis could share some other trait with al-malaaika.
-
Peace to mquran, idolfree1 and all
I agree that the Quran didn?t tell us the nature of the substance the Angels were created from, however it told us something very important about the Angels in at least two locations, here is one
49- ?And to Allah doth obeisance all that is in the heavens and on earth, whether moving (living) creatures or the angels for none are arrogant (before their Lord).?
50- ?They fear their Lord above them and do what they are commanded.?
(49)
(50)1649-50
But Iblis did the following
1 showed arrogance (The angels SHOULD NOT)
2 did not do what Allah commanded him to do (The angels SHOULD NOT)
3 did not fear Allah (The angels SHOULD NOT)consequently he can not be an angel
the argument that he was a jinn then Allah make him an angel does not make sense whatsoever and have no proof
if the only proof that the command to prostrate was to the angels, which is not a bad argument at all but its weight is far lighter than the more concrete evidence that Iblis was always a jinn because the Quran never mentioned any change of his status from jinn to an angel
Allah knows best
-
Salaam Ahmed,
You're gonna think me pedantic here, akhee
16/49 says that 'wa lillahi' (and to Allah) they make sajda. Iblis never was said to have an issue with making sajda to Allah. He had a problem with making sajda to Adam.
16/50's key phrase is 'ma yu'maroon' (what they are ordered). So is it possible that Allah 'said' (qulna not amarna, or 'we commanded) in order to demonstrate to Adam about Ibliis's nature?
To me, the force of the 'wa iz qulna lil malaika' is heavy, Ahmed. I can't just overlook that im afraid.
-
Salaam Ahmed,
You're gonna think me pedantic here, akhee
16/49 says that 'wa lillahi' (and to Allah) they make sajda. Iblis never was said to have an issue with making sajda to Allah. He had a problem with making sajda to Adam.
16/50's key phrase is 'ma yu'maroon' (what they are ordered). So is it possible that Allah 'said' (qulna not amarna, or 'we commanded) in order to demonstrate to Adam about Ibliis's nature?
To me, the force of the 'wa iz qulna lil malaika' is heavy, Ahmed. I can't just overlook that im afraid.
Peace bro
the keyword in 1649 is not "Sajda", it is "Arrogance" and NONE of the angels is arrogant
sorry bro I couldn't understand the second question, can you elbborate please
cheers
-
Salaam Ahmed,
To me, the force of the 'wa iz qulna lil malaika' is heavy, Ahmed. I can't just overlook that im afraid.Salam again my friend
as I stated that I agree that this is a good argument 'wa iz qulna lil malaika', but we can't just assume that it means Iblis was an angel because the Quran said the opposit that he was a jinn, so I would rather leave it to Allah obsolute knowledge and abide by 5101-102, i.e. it will not make a differnce to my belief the nature of Iblis, possibly this is an open door that Iblis is spoilting to confuse as many of us as well, Allah only knows
peace mquran
-
Peace,
Before this topic races off into a storm of opinion I just want to ask a reasonable question.
Why does it matter?
How is it going to change you or your practices what Iblis was or wasn't, is or isn't, fire or clay, smoke or mirrors?
This sort of business is futile. It's completely irrelevant.
Stop being lured into such meaningless and wasteful debates. Concentrate on DOING things and serving the God.
Peace.