The Omnipotent, Omnipresent, All knowing but Doing Nothing?
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Whether they died during an earthquake, tsunami, got bombed in a war... it's still death.
But do we not want a dignified death? as oppose to getting shot in the back of the head? or building falling on our head? or being drowned by waters? or being roasted alive by a volcanic lava?
Do we not want to die with dignity? and not be torn so violently from our family and friends?
If God is OMNIPOTENT why HE is unable to intervene?
Perhpas we can never anser this question?
Regards,
If you've played a computer game, you know that you can act in a wrong way, make a wrong move, not anticipate something and end up getting 'bombed' or losing a life.
How would it be if the writer of the game made it so that the character emerges unscathed at every turn. The rules must be consistent and your appeal for intervention is a plea for inconsistency. The rules and the laws are set out.
Don't think of long life or dignified death. Think of what you can do NOW. What are you doing to better yourself and others?
Instead of pleading for intervention go and lobby the government to prosecute the makers of the death trap houses and regulate the construction of future buildings so there isn't a repetition. If the problem is money then find it, educate people, the list is endless on what you can do. In earthquakes its the buildings that cause the vast majority of the death and carnage.
There's no room for nihilism; don't just throw up your hands and ask futile questions and requests for the laws of existence to be broken. Do what's called for. Address the problem.
You and the original poster are the ones doing "nothing".
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salam,
shamsul-arefin wrote
Yes death is a natural thing...but that doesnt mean we see someone dying in pain and say..Oh!! its a natural thing!! why should we feel so bad abt it.!!
Why are we developing anyway..why are we trying to save life anyway...why the need of hospital?? Just let everyone die..!! Its so natural right??!!You said it all again
IF1 says
So if someone dies, does it follow we should respond with anger or sadness? What would happen if we instead just remained at peace? We ask that the deceased "rest in peace", but meanwhile we are back here destroying our health with states of TENSION.
Iknow its easier said than done, and might sound strange in this unguided world, but this is what we should be cultivating. The God says that those who trust should not despair, for anything.
Again it depends upon the circumstance? if a teenage girls is raped and killed how can his family remain at peace? if children die begging their helpless parents for day to get them out of the debris, how can they remain at peace? its absolutely unnatural.
What is trust in someone? You trust in someone is you confidence or your belief that in a dire situation that someone will help you, if that someone does not help you or support you, then give me one good reason why that trust should remain?Peace zenje,
but when the emotions fade, since they are only there for as long as we hold on to them, what is left?
Time is a healer and when your emotions subside you are left with memories, for sensitive people even they come back to haunt them at times.
In the grand scheme of things, who are we, but arrogant creatures who think the world revolves around us?... What is this earth, but a mud ball in the vast universe among universes? Perhaps a more apt question would be... Why are we here?
Here we are talking like carl sagan of cosmos fame ) as far as I am aware we are the only creature on planet earth who are capable of saving or destroying ourselves, other creatures as well as our planet.
Why are we here?.that is a question humane beings have not yet been able to answer. But it has always been there from the start.Truth says
What about parting of the red sea? Turning humans who transgressed into apes or swines?
Causing a man to die for 100 years? or the sleepers of the cave for 309 years? And my friend what about the destruction of the town of lot? Or Aad ? Laws of physics or Gods wrath?These stories are allegorical to the extent that you did not witness them.
Brother I am not a witness to the revelations of verses, neither am I a witness to the collection of Quran etc, so what should I say??
In Japan, one of the most earthquake prone countries in the world they have earthquake simulators under samples of new apartments being constructed to demonstrate to buyers the earthquake resistance of multi-storey buildings.
And when earthquakes happen in Japan you see the buildings rock around a bit but none collapse. Why then when an earthquake occurs like the 1999 Turkish earthquake, all the buildings in a town becomes like pancake stacks or reduced down to rubble and thousands upon thousands perish.
Because the builders of those buildings give short measure - they fail to use the steel needed, they create houses of cards - and because of it people die.
You are absolutely right there, but who has kept us Muslims away from research and technology or innovation? Misuse of Religion, yes brother it?s the misuse of religion, Blind faith, oh Allah will help us we are the best race, He will Guard us, this life is only temporary so why bother, eventually we all have to die so why bother. day of judgment is behind the corner etc .What we need is to redefine our priorities and separate state from religion then only can we advance in research and technology.
We have been reciting Quran since the last 1400 centuries, when ever there is a new discovery suddenly our scholars would start shouting this is not new its in the Quran,
Then Woe to you?..were you sleeping before?IF1 said
I dont see any contradictions personally, except now for the one created by your response about Josephs father crying, but t is only a matter of studying deeper. If you are interested, start a thread about the other contradictions you see and lets see if we can resolve them objectively enough that everyone will agree.
Ok my friend I will start new threads about the contradictions. I sincerely hope to learn from you guys at fm a lot for better understanding ) .
God bless you all.
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Yeah that earthquake in Pakistan was very bad.
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Peace All,
I recall when I first saw the practice of the male lion who dethrones the existing patriarch of a pride. If there are any cubs around, he goes and kills them one by one. Sometimes, he'll even eat them. When I first saw this, it tarnished my appreciation for lions. I always thought of them as majestic creatures, however, this behavior left me feeling disgusted as I felt so sorry for those poor defenseless cubs.
As I grew older and my interest in nature expanded, I began to understand these things as the workings of nature. These are necessary behaviors for the strength of the group, and the strength of the group is necessary for the local food chain, which is necessary for the ecosystem, etc.
The compassion I felt for the cubs was my own projection of fear upon them. For all I know, lions have no sense of fear whatsoever. So this emotion that welled up within me was of my own making based on my own fears and had nothing to do with the lions at all. The Qur'an tells us that all of life knows it's salat. These animals accept their role. Even the mothers of the cubs accept their role, for within 2 hours of all the cubs being massacred, the females go into heat and the new, stronger male plants his seeds. It's a sex party right after the mass murder!
Now, I am not saying that we should be like animals and move on after tragedy within 2 hours of the event. What I am saying is that while compassion is a necessary human emotion, we shouldn't get stuck in it to the point where it becomes self-sabotaging, even in words. It should be energizing, catapulting us to find ways to prevent unnecessary pain and suffering. That is what seperates us from the animals. Animals go right back into their routine. We, on the other hand, learn the lessons and improve.
Thousands of people died in the process of our learning how to build bridges, skyscrapers, dams, etc. Now we do these things pretty well.
Today we can re-route rivers, we can build islands, we can live in space. We can also destroy mountains and pollute, destroy forests, consume resources to extinction, and pollute entire ecosystems.God has given us an enormous playgorund to explore and learn from, to enjoy it's many secrets. And we've been left with the ability to either survive and prosper, or to deteriorate. Either way, the Earth will cleanse herself of us eventually. So, it's not a question of why does God not intervene and end the suffering. The intervention took place a long time ago. The suffering is our own doing, and we can undo it, in more ways than one.
Peace,
Tay -
peace tay,
you said
I recall when I first saw the practice of the male lion who dethrones the existing patriarch of a pride. If there are any cubs around, he goes and kills them one by one. Sometimes, he'll even eat them. When I first saw this, it tarnished my appreciation for lions.
I too felt the same way when I saw it the first time, I did wish the omnipotent could have designed it in a more merciful way It is a good example how our understanding changes through experience and knowledge.
I agree almost completly with what you say my friend.So, it's not a question of why does God not intervene and end the suffering.
Now why we ask such questions? if you are told to dial 911 for help in case of emergency By your parents, by the media, in the school, through billboards and news papers etc, but in case of emergencies you keep on dialing 911 for help and get absolutely no response, it will be normal for you to ask why they are no responding.
take care. -
Peace Agent,
So, it's not a question of why does God not intervene and end the suffering.
Now why we ask such questions? if you are told to dial 911 for help in case of emergency By your parents, by the media, in the school, through billboards and news papers etc, but in case of emergencies you keep on dialing 911 for help and get absolutely no response, it will be normal for you to ask why they are no responding.
take care.So Agent, you don't believe that God exists?
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peace taj,
youwroteSo Agent, you don't believe that God exists?
There is no doubt in God`s existence the doubt are in the understanding of how he operates. For examples if he was omnipotent but not omnipresent or all hearing and all knowing it would have been much easier for me to understand why he doest help people who suffer or needs his help. But with all these attributes if he doesn?t help people, don?t you think it?s a little bit confusing? I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.
take care. -
SaLaM Agent
Will you plz tell me how God should influence the world? for example, if i need money, i sleep and wake up and voila! there is money by my pillow. Or say i have cancer and i make a little prayer to God and !!!!!!! my cancer is gone. IF im homeless i say "oh god give me a home" and !!!!!! i wake up in a nice 2 bed appt.
Is this how you want it to be?
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peace taj,
youwroteSo Agent, you don't believe that God exists?
There is no doubt in God`s existence ) the doubt are in the understanding of how he operates. For examples if he was omnipotent but not omnipresent or all hearing and all knowing it would have been much easier for me to understand why he doest help people who suffer or needs his help. But with all these attributes if he doesn?t help people, don?t you think it?s a little bit confusing? I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.
take care.3949 If the human is touched by adversity, he implores us, but as soon as we bestow a blessing upon him, he says, "I attained this because of my cleverness!" Indeed, this is only a test, but most of them do not know.
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peace truth,
2- Al-Baqara
260-Behold! Abraham said "My Lord! show me how thou givest life to the dead. He said "Dost thou not then believe?" He said "Yea! but to satisfy my own understanding." He said "Take four birds; tame them to turn to thee; put a portion of them on every hill and call to them; they will come to thee (flying) with speed. Then know that Allah is Exalted in Power Wise.49- Al-Hujurat
6-O ye who believe! if a wicked person comes to you with any news ascertain the truth lest ye harm people unwittingly and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
God bless you. -
peace jaxal,
you wroteWill you plz tell me how God should influence the world? for example, if i need money, i sleep and wake up and voila! there is money by my pillow. Or say i have cancer and i make a little prayer to God and !!!!!!! my cancer is gone. IF im homeless i say "oh god give me a home" and !!!!!! i wake up in a nice 2 bed appt.
Is this how you want it to be?dont we all wish that was true lol jaxal my friend my wish is irrelevant I am just trying to figure our how God really influence the world? when i was a kid I would pray for a toys or money or for anything that is interesting for a kid, if there was a positive result, i would relate it to some good deed of mine and if it turned out nagative i would relate it with some bad deed of mine, we are taught this philosopy right from the childhood. now i know this was not reality and i want to understand the reality.
And when My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close I respond to the dua (prayer) of every suppliant when they calleth on Me." (Quran 2186)take care.
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salaam jaxal
Loooll i know what you saying agent. Ok, answer this. Do you beleive that we all know what we want EXACTLY?
hmm! interesting. Surely sometimes.
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Peace be upon you,
Again it depends upon the circumstance? if a teenage girls is raped and killed how can his family remain at peace?
By practicing a life long discipine or programming this response, the neutral response of peace, so that they can choose thier solution to each problem in life from a fresh perspective. Would you rather be in pain of anguish, not able to function? Or be at peace, able to see clearly how to manage the funeral expenses and other duties that need to be done. You can look at people in a funeral, some are all over the floor crying, some are sad yet composed, etc etc. The highest degree is Peace. The urge for peace is the major force in the world.
if children die begging their helpless parents for day to get them out of the debris, how can they remain at peace?
By cultivating this mind state constantly. But if you are always watching Television PROGRAMS which sow emotional seeds constantly in your NAFS, it will be hard for you to respond in this manner.
its absolutely unnatural.
No, it is unnatural to be TENSE, removing Life giving blood from your vital organs because it went to the organs for "fight of flight" response. It is natural to be at PEACE, it is what we all seek. None of us does things to be aggravated and stressed out.
What is trust in someone? You trust in someone is you confidence or your belief that in a dire situation that someone will help you, if that someone does not help you or support you, then give me one good reason why that trust should remain?
This is the part where you have gone ahead of me, I never said trust in someone. We are to trust in Divine Law! Not blind belief in some person. Unfortunately, the human is created weak, subject to her animal nature, which we must transcend and eliminate the interference the animal creates so we cant hear the God's Word. So most of mankind are "dead", slaves to the animal(emotions). So it is he LAWS we trust, not persons. We trust that when we subject water to below 32 degrees that we will have Ice.
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salaam idol free
Or be at peace, able to see clearly
That is the million dollar question. I would love to be even near that point but I am still trapped in this emotional maze.
salaam -
peace layth,
you sayLoooll i know what you saying agent. Ok, answer this. Do you beleive that we all know what we want EXACTLY?
I cant say about the others but what i want is peace and harmony in the world, i want every one to be happy, free of miseries and pain, i want to see people helping each other rather then killing eachother, i want to see babies reaching old age rather then dying in their early age and layth my friend i dont want any thing bad to happen to a kid, i just cant take that happening and it makes me soooooooo cry
salam IF1,
you wroteBy practicing a life long discipine or programming this response, the neutral response of peace, so that they can choose thier solution to each problem in life from a fresh perspective. Would you rather be in pain of anguish, not able to function? Or be at peace, able to see clearly how to manage the funeral expenses and other duties that need to be done. You can look at people in a funeral, some are all over the floor crying, some are sad yet composed, etc etc. The highest degree is Peace. The urge for peace is the major force in the world.
i think you are a strong person, a lucky person. as for me i qualify for the "all over the floor crying type" and it take me a long long time to compose myself oops
salam stillearning,
you sayThat is the million dollar question. I would love to be even near that point but I am still trapped in this emotional maze.
me too my friend, i saw all the calamity on tv only but you are in the effected area and i can understand you emotions. i pray that the Almighty give you all the strength to cope with the extremely difficult situation you are going through, God bless you all.
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Miracles can happen. I'm sure of it. But the greatest miracle of all, I reckon, is that we have been gifted with intelligence. An intelligence that puts us apart from all the other creatures in the world, that enables us to reason, to chose, to act upon those choices, to distinguish morals and ethics, to conceptualize, to wonder, etc.
God wants us to put our faith in Him, no matter what. So, no matter how horrible one's life may become, his or her trust must be with God, for unto Him everything returns. This is easier said than done, but a greater reward expects those who persevere, who are patient and remindful of Him.
And let us not forget that much of the pain and misery in this life is man-made. Innocent kids who starve to death aren't guilty of anything but I'm sure that in the Afterlife they'll be much rewarded and pleased.
For the one who only sees this life as the ultimate goal, death, destruction and suffering are not easy to understand, if understandable. But if one firmly believes that even if in this world there is such misery, unjustice and pain, the righteous people will be unimaginably rewarded afterwards, things become easier and comfort is brought into your mind.
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Peace Agentxxx,
My apologies for the delay.
You stated
Now why we ask such questions? if you are told to dial 911 for help in case of emergency By your parents, by the media, in the school, through billboards and news papers etc, but in case of emergencies you keep on dialing 911 for help and get absolutely no response, it will be normal for you to ask why they are no responding.
Maybe there was something wrong with the phone?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Agentxxx,
IF1
By practicing a life long discipine or programming this response, the neutral response of peace, so that they can choose thier solution to each problem in life from a fresh perspective. Would you rather be in pain of anguish, not able to function? Or be at peace, able to see clearly how to manage the funeral expenses and other duties that need to be done. You can look at people in a funeral, some are all over the floor crying, some are sad yet composed, etc etc. The highest degree is Peace. The urge for peace is the major force in the world.Agent
i think you are a strong person, a lucky person.No, there is no such thing as luck, we reap what we sow. The difference between "strong" and "weak" is TRAINING, just like when working out in a Gym, nothing different. And because I am stating this is the proper way, it does not follow that I have mastered this. I am still trying to get my weight up, but its easier when the goal is clear.
as for me i qualify for the "all over the floor crying type" and it take me a long long time to compose myself
No, that is not "you", that is your personality that you are wrongly identifying with. You have to cultivate the ability to seperate the real "you" from your thoughts, emotions, etc. You are not the NAFS(spirit/mind), "you" are the one who is witnessing your thoughts and emotions and you have the ability to ignore them and change them.
What would happen if you did not fall on the floor crying? Nothing D
But we have to start understanding our different faculties and how they work, that is what these stories are teaching us, once we stop looking for the literal interpretations.
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That is the million dollar question. I would love to be even near that point but I am still trapped in this emotional maze.Yes, we are all dealing with this RESISTANCE, so we must be patiently perservere n the discipline of reprogramming ourselves.