The process of creation [heavens and earth]?
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Salam everyone,
Allah say in quran
2117?The Originator of the heavens and the earth! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only Be! and it is.
54 50?And Our commandment is but one (commandment), as the twinkling of an eye.
But he needed six days for creation?
117-He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was over the Waters that He might try you which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death" the Unbelievers would be sure to say "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"
or 8 days according to these verses?
419?Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters) Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds.
4110?He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask;
4111?Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said We come, obedient.
4112?Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and we decked the lower heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower.in Might Full of knowledge.According to verse 91011- he created the earth, placed firm hills rising above it, blessed it and measured therein its provisions and then he turned to heavens which was smoke?
What I understand is that when God created earth there was nothing else except God and smoke?Heaven and earth were one piece
2130?Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?
but heaven was smoke
4111?Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said We come, obedient.
He first created earth?
229?He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is Knower of all things
No He first created heaven?
7927?Are ye the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built?
7928?He raised the height thereof and ordered it;
7929?And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof.
7930?And after that He spread the earth,432?By the Book that makes things clear roll
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Peace be upon you,
This cannot be literal as there are no "days" to count before the creation of the SUN and Earth to revolve around it.
I took it as 6 time periods, but still this gives us no guidance. After having studied the Tree of Life diagram (Kabala), it has been shown to me that the process of creation involves 6 faculties. The breakdown goes something like this. There are 11 faculties..
0= absolute Peace
1-2-3 = the faculties of the Divine
4-5-6-7-8-9 = the creation starting with LAW(4), the solid foundation through which to build upon.
10 = Physical world
Other than this, I see no other explanation that gives any guidance. Thi is not a history book but a book to guide our behavior.
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peace idolfree1,
you wroteThis cannot be literal as there are no "days" to count before the creation of the SUN and Earth to revolve around it.
Agreed but it?s we who know about this phenomenon of revolving earth and the sun, the people of the past were not aware of it, so they would have not thought like us.
Allah says in Quran that it?s verses are explained in details4144?Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in a language) other than Arabic they would have said "Why are not its verses explained in detail?
41 3?A Book whereof the verses are explained in detail a Qur'an in Arabic for people who understand.
I took it as 6 time periods, but still this gives us no guidance. After having studied the Tree of Life diagram (Kabala), it has been shown to me that the process of creation involves 6 faculties. The breakdown goes something like this. There are 11 faculties..
0= absolute Peace
1-2-3 = the faculties of the Divine
4-5-6-7-8-9 = the creation starting with LAW (4), the solid foundation through which to build upon.
10 = Physical world
Interesting but I believe 98% of people in Pakistan would not know what you are trying to explain and that includes me too
This is not a history book but a book to guide our behavior.
Absolutely right, neither it is a history book, nor is it a science book it is a book of ethics. A book to guide our behavior, till the end of the world. But our so-called religious intellectuals are more interested in proving it, a book of miracles that contains all the knowledge of the world, including scientific clues. And they have rarely laid any emphasis in the preaching and practicing of the ethical part of this book, that is the base for an ideal society.
381..Sad. By the Qur'an full of Admonition (this is the Truth)
take care
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Peace brother agentxxx
I believe most people don't understand the context of what you mentioned regarding the word "Be"
the statemnet does not say, that thing will be on the spot when the word Be was said by Allah rather I see it as the start of a process to be, the process can take no time and it can take plenty of time based on Allah wish
however to tackle this issue in great details we need to define time first, which I reckon is not going to be an easy task however taking the time for granted as we know it applies on us as creatures, do you think it applys on the one who created that time?
peace
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Agreed but its we who know about this phenomenon of revolving earth and the sun, the people of the past were not aware of it, so they would have not thought like us.
Salaam.
I believe people in the past knew just as more or equal to what we know now. The past civilizations were very intellectual in all fields. I think most people want to believe they are more advanced than the previous generations to "feel" more secure in their way of life. But brother subjective opinion on it is that I believe the past civilizations were really advanced and must have known about the revolving earth and sun and much more.
PEACE
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peace ahmed,
you wroteI believe most people don't understand the context of what you mentioned regarding the word "Be"
the statemnet does not say, that thing will be on the spot when the word Be was said by Allah rather I see it as the start of a process to be, the process can take no time and it can take plenty of time based on Allah wishbrother what is your opinion about this verse? isnt it confirming the context of verse 2117?
5450?And Our commandment is but one (commandment), as the twinkling of an eye.271-Ta Sin. These are verses of the Qur'an a Book that makes (things) clear;
432?By the Book that makes things clear.
this is what Quran repeatedly tell us, but somehow it seems nothing is clear.however to tackle this issue in great details we need to define time first, which I reckon is not going to be an easy task however taking the time for granted as we know it applies on us as creatures, do you think it applys on the one who created that time?
brother this is what i dont understand? quran addresses the people who lived 1400 years ago, and says
5417- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
5422- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
5432- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
5440- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
Allah says he has made the Quran easy to understand but today it has become difficult to understand ? according to my opinion it is because we love to associate all kind of scientific content with it, but are unable to prove our notions from quran because it is a book for admonition only.
take care. -
peace 2pac,
you wroteI believe people in the past knew just as more or equal to what we know now. The past civilizations were very intellectual in all fields. I think most people want to believe they are more advanced than the previous generations to "feel" more secure in their way of life. But brother subjective opinion on it is that I believe the past civilizations were really advanced and must have known about the revolving earth and sun and much more.
brother i respect your belief but look at how much abraham knew about about the sun,the moon and the stars
675-THUS DID WE SHOW ABRAHAM THE KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH THAT HE MIGHTY BE OF THOSE POSSESSING CERTAINTY
676-WHEN THE NIGHT GREW DARK UPON HIM HE BEHELD A STAR. HE SAID THIS IS MY LORD. BUT WHEN IT SET, HE SAID I LOVE NOT THINGS THAT SET.
677-AND WHEN HE SAW THE MOON UPRISING, HE EXCLAIMED THIS MY LORD. BUT WHEN IT SET, HE SAID UNLESS MY LORD GUIDE ME, I SURELY SHALL BECOME ONE OF THE FOLK WHO ARE ASTRAY.
678-AND WHEN HE SAW THE SUN UPRISING, HE CRIED THIS IS MY LORD! THIS IS GREATER! AND WHEN IT SET, HE EXCLAIMED O MY PEOPLE! LO! I AM FREE FROM ALL THAT YE ASSOCIATE (WITH HIM).
679-LO! I HAVE TURNED MY FACE TOWARD HIM WHO CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, AS ONE BY NATURE UPRIGHT, AND I AM NOT OF THE IDOLATERS.take care.
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peace ahmed,
Peace agentxxx
you wrote
I believe most people don't understand the context of what you mentioned regarding the word "Be"
the statemnet does not say, that thing will be on the spot when the word Be was said by Allah rather I see it as the start of a process to be, the process can take no time and it can take plenty of time based on Allah wishbrother what is your opinion about this verse? isnt it confirming the context of verse 2117?
5450?And Our commandment is but one (commandment), as the twinkling of an eye.no contradiction bro, as I explained, Allah is not restricted to timeline events, i.e. what will take millions of years to humans ?from the human perspective ? can not be considered taken millions of years from Allah perspective who created the time, i.e. the time on itself is a creature and does not apply on the creator, so when He says it will happen instantly, it is from His perspective not from yours nor mine
271-Ta Sin. These are verses of the Qur'an a Book that makes (things) clear;
432?By the Book that makes things clear.
this is what Quran repeatedly tell us, but somehow it seems nothing is clear.first of all there is a huge misunderstanding here
the clear as light Arabic word ?? does not actually mean ?makes things clear?, this is misleading indeed, it means ?obvious? and this means it is obvious that the Quran is from our God
people just go far into the distances translating the clear Arabic words the way they wish
regarding of the Quran makes things clear or not?, well, I see it very clear indeed, sure my native tongue is a great help, more importantly that I?m not biased and not allowing Satan to flaw my beleief by not asking silly question that will never benefit my belief rather trying to look smartarse,
I want it basic and I have it as basic as it can get in the Quran
remember very well bro that the Quran also stated that, this book will guide and misguide humanity so we have to see both types happening in front of our eyes
however to tackle this issue in great details we need to define time first, which I reckon is not going to be an easy task however taking the time for granted as we know it applies on us as creatures, do you think it applys on the one who created that time?
brother this is what i dont understand? quran addresses the people who lived 1400 years ago, and says
5417- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
5422- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
5432- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
5440- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
Allah says he has made the Quran easy to understand but today it has become difficult to understand ? according to my opinion it is because we love to associate all kind of scientific content with it, but are unable to prove our notions from quran because it is a book for admonition only.
take care.Bro again there is a mistranslation here the translation should be as follow
?We have made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, then is there any that wants to remember?
and the above is the exact translation to the clear Arabic words below
(17)
I can?t see the word understand anywhere in the Arabic verse, not to say the Quran is hard to understand, but I would say, it will be hard to understand if humans followed discord by some ignorant who translate the clear Arabic words in silly and sometimes funny ways, what can I say, well done Satan
Peace be with you bro
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peace Ahmed,
you wrotefirst of all there is a huge misunderstanding here
the clear as light Arabic word ?? does not actually mean ?makes things clear?, this is misleading indeed, it means ?obvious? and this means it is obvious that the Quran is from our God
people just go far into the distances translating the clear Arabic words the way they wish
Brother since I am not familiar with Arabic I have to depend on translations. The top scholars only do the Urdu translations, and they have to get approval from the Quran Academies, the Religious parties as well as the Ministry of Religious affairs in Pakistan. They cannot get it printed without going through this process. The translation by Moulana Moudodi is not only approved by the government of Pakistan, but also by the Saudi government. During hajj copies of his Urdu translation are distributed free amongst the Pakistani pilgrimages by the Saudi authorities.
The other scholars credited with authentic translations in Urdu are Shah Abdul Qadir Mohadis Delhvi, Moulana Abdul Qadir Azad, Moulana Fateh Mohammed Jhallendri.
Then there are academies , which have translated Quran.
The English translations of Pir Salahud-din, J.M.Rodwell, Yousaf Ali, Pickhthal, Shakir Ali, Dr Mohammed Taqi-ud-din hilali, Omar Ahmed and others on the internet are also available for references.So brother if they all are wrong in their interpretation then what can I say? What I do is check a particular verse in all the translations available, then I go with the version where most of them agree.
regarding of the Quran makes things clear or not?, well, I see it very clear indeed, sure my native tongue is a great help, more importantly that I?m not biased and not allowing Satan to flaw my beleief by not asking silly question that will never benefit my belief rather trying to look smartarse,
umm Smartarse lol brother I respect your belief but I am not you, I am me, and I do not now believe in blind faith. If we can analyze other beliefs, religions and books, why can?t we analyze our own beliefs, religion and book? If thinking rational is allowing Satan to flaw our beliefs, then how can we know the truth?
Remember very well bro that the Quran also stated that, this book will guide and misguide humanity so we have to see both types happening in front of our eyes
If there was any other option between guidance and misguidance, that too would have been included in Quran, so that what ever happens a reference from Quran could be given. That is what makes me skeptical about this book.
Bro again there is a mistranslation here the translation should be as follow
?We have made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, then is there any that wants to remember?
and the above is the exact translation to the clear Arabic words below
(17)
I can?t see the word understand anywhere in the Arabic verse, not to say the Quran is hard to understand, but I would say, it will be hard to understand if humans followed discord by some ignorant who translate the clear Arabic words in silly and sometimes funny ways, what can I say, well done Satan
Here are these three ignorant who translated the said verse
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And We have indeed made the Qur'?n easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?
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And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and
remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
5417-And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
take care.
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peace Ahmed,
you wrotefirst of all there is a huge misunderstanding here
the clear as light Arabic word ?? does not actually mean ?makes things clear?, this is misleading indeed, it means ?obvious? and this means it is obvious that the Quran is from our God
people just go far into the distances translating the clear Arabic words the way they wish
Brother since I am not familiar with Arabic I have to depend on translations.
Peace bro
I understand man, this is a big problem, it is also a problem for non native Arabic speakers who learnt just how to speak Arabic
There are zillions of translations man, I have seen many horrific ones and sure were done by the enemy of Islam where the mistakes are deliberate to cause discord, also I have also seen undeliberate mistakes by muslims who translated the Quran, all these translations by Muslims have plenty of mistakes, this fact must concludes that the Quran is very hard to translate indeed, so the best option is to always consult a sincere and fluent Arabic speaker regarding your concerns please ?If you can? and don?t take the English or the urdu translation for granted until you confirm it using your own mind and with the help of a fluent Arabic speaker
And I will be happy to always help as much as I can regarding the clear Arabic verses if you have any question
The top scholars only do the Urdu translations, and they have to get approval from the Quran Academies, the Religious parties as well as the Ministry of Religious affairs in Pakistan. They cannot get it printed without going through this process. The translation by Moulana Moudodi is not only approved by the government of Pakistan, but also by the Saudi government. During hajj copies of his Urdu translation are distributed free amongst the Pakistani pilgrimages by the Saudi authorities.
mate all these governments you mentioned are corrupt, confused and can not be trusted, in fact I have never seen in my 40 years of life a decent/honest Islamic government
no wonder all Islamic countries are going down,
Saudi Arabia government for example, approves two different Qurans, what crap is that bro? and sure we know that a lot of terrorists come from the Pakistan and surrounding countries, so I say most Muslims are bloody confused, so I expect when it comes to translation they will also be confused, believe me Satan is very clever
Didn?t he manage to flaw all the Christians?
Didn?t he manage to flaw all the Jews?
Didn?t he manage to flaw all the Hindus?
And the atheists, the pagans, and the devil worshippers
Why can't he flaw the msulims then?
Do you think the Muslims are different humans to the rest of all humans?
Let me raise this question please
Who do you think is Satan's number one enemy? Is it the Muslims?
I reckon they are, or what do you think?
Well, if you agree, then expect that the majority of Muslims will be confused.
make sense bro?
The other scholars credited with authentic translations in Urdu are Shah Abdul Qadir Mohadis Delhvi, Moulana Abdul Qadir Azad, Moulana Fateh Mohammed Jhallendri.
Then there are academies , which have translated Quran.
The English translations of Pir Salahud-din, J.M.Rodwell, Yousaf Ali, Pickhthal, Shakir Ali, Dr Mohammed Taqi-ud-din hilali, Omar Ahmed and others on the internet are also available for references.Bro even the majority of the best of the Arabic scholars like Ibn kathir, interpreted many things wrong,
It is all about logic and common sense, if it makes sense then we take if it does not then we should not take it
If we can?t find a definite answer then we have to drop the subject to avoid flawing our belief
The basics of the belief is clear as light from the Quran, it is us who are going to make it hard on ourselves and satan and his progny will surely exploit that
Our sincerity is a must and our ego must be dropped
So brother if they all are wrong in their interpretation then what can I say? What I do is check a particular verse in all the translations available, then I go with the version where most of them agree.
you have to know bro that many translators looked at the previous translations by others and surely it will influence their outcome especially if they are not native Arabic speakers
what you suggested is not a bad idea to follow the majority as long as you feel comfortable with the understanding, however the best and safest option id to consult a native Arabic speaker that you know well and trust, and that person must be Muslim and surely know the Arabic Quran well. Then you make up you decision regarding your concerns
regarding of the Quran makes things clear or not?, well, I see it very clear indeed, sure my native tongue is a great help, more importantly that I?m not biased and not allowing Satan to flaw my beleief by not asking silly question that will never benefit my belief rather trying to look smartarse,
umm Smartarse lol brother I respect your belief but I am not you, I am me, and I do not now believe in blind faith.
bro, I?m sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn?t mean you as smartarse, I meant myself, I used to ask too many questions bro and took me no where, there are genuine questions and have merit/cause while there is also very silly questions or at least have no merit/cause and will outcome nothing but conjecture and cause fitnah, and this was warned against in the Quran big times, I just learnt to play it safe that?s all.
Sure anyone have the right to question anything, this is our freewill that were given to us, but because we must give account we should use this freewill very careful indeed
If we can analyze other beliefs, religions and books, why can?t we analyze our own beliefs, religion and book? If thinking rational is allowing Satan to flaw our beliefs, then how can we know the truth?
true, but the point is you can ask any question and reach a conclusion in a proper time, the conclusion must be one of the following
- you had an old understanding and was confirmed
- you discovered a new understanding and is confirmed then you dropped your old understanding
- you had no understanding and you managed to work it out and confirm a new understanding
- nothing was confirmed and the issue must be dropped and left to God
but if we keep raising the same issue over and over again, over the years of our life, we will look like non confident in our belief and sure Satan can exploit this hole very easily, he is very clever brother, look how many he flawed and you can easily recognise his determination that was confirmed in the Quran
Remember very well bro that the Quran also stated that, this book will guide and misguide humanity so we have to see both types happening in front of our eyes
If there was any other option between guidance and misguidance, that too would have been included in Quran, so that what ever happens a reference from Quran could be given. That is what makes me skeptical about this book.
what will make many people sceptical about this book, is the many people who are interpreting the way they wish, this was also confirmed in the Quran, so I advice you to hold on your sceptics and give it more time, it takes a long time bro, it does not happen over night , you see if Allah has created all the magic we an see in us and around us in the vicinity of the heaven and earth just to convince us to belief in Him and in the unseen, then I tell you bro believing is surely the hardest thing in life to achieve, good luck to you man
Bro again there is a mistranslation here the translation should be as follow
?We have made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, then is there any that wants to remember?
and the above is the exact translation to the clear Arabic words below
(17)
I can?t see the word understand anywhere in the Arabic verse, not to say the Quran is hard to understand, but I would say, it will be hard to understand if humans followed discord by some ignorant who translate the clear Arabic words in silly and sometimes funny ways, what can I say, well done Satan
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And We have indeed made the Qur'?n easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?
-
And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and
remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
5417-And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
Here are these three ignorant who translated the said verse
take care
Sorry bro, but I have to be honest, there is no benefit for me to lie, I insist on the translation I provided and I?m 100% positive that the Arabic word understand is not within the original Arabic text ?I posted the Arabic verse for all to see? and I hope any Arabic speaker look into it and see if I?m talking non sense
Peace be with you
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As AhmedBahgat mentioned earlier in the thread, when God says "Be!" something happens. It may happen in the blink of an 'eye' for God, and yet the same event may take centuries in our eyes. Time is relative and I'm sure God is not restrained by time in our current reality.
idolfree, I've also read elswhere that the 'days' could also be translated as periods of time, is there more confirmation of this?
2Pac - Notts, I also agree with your statement that people of the past knew just as much as us in some ways. The people of the past get too much flak from us, they could not have been stupid because look how far we've come because of their ingenuity, look at the remains of their lives in our museums, they were not stupid at all. I think we've even regressed in this day and age, in some ways sadly.
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peace Ahmed,
you wroteI mate all these governments you mentioned are corrupt, confused and can not be trusted, in fact I have never seen in my 40 years of life a decent/honest Islamic government
no wonder all Islamic countries are going down,
Brother I agree with you regarding the corrupt government in Islamic countries.
Let me tell you briefly what happened here in Pakistan, we have a 98% Muslim population. When the former soviet union invaded Afghanistan, Pakistan was used as a front line state by the USA and its allies which included almost all the Islamic states. A call for jihad was made and jihadis from all over the world came to Pakistan. Bin laden also came to Pakistan with the help of CIA who was training all the jihadis and were financing them too. People who believed in jihad came from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Chechnya, Iran, UK, USA, central Asia etc. they had their bases inside Pakistan along with the border of Afghanistan that stretches hundreds of miles. These were the times when religious parties in Pakistan became extremely rich and powerful, they also transformed into militant groups they were also free to collect funds from the local population who were sympathetic to the plight of the Afghan people so they were very generous in their donations.These religious parties recruited hundreds of thousands of locals, young guys 16-20 years old who were send to Afghanistan for jihad. Thousands lost their lives including the 19 yrs old son of my first cousin who was fascinated by the idea of going straight to jannat through jihad. During all this period there was no other topic for the mullah in the Friday sermons except jihad.
After the withdrawal of Soviet Union the war lords in Afghanistan starting fighting among themselves for power, after achieving their target the Americans left Afghanistan and Pakistan was left alone to deal with this problem. The militant wings of these jihadi groups became extremely powerful for any weak government to control.
When the soviets were in Afghanistan we were all Muslims, but as soon as they left we became Sunnis and Shias. A new sectarian power game started in Afghanistan supported by the Saudis and the Iranian. The Saudis and Wahabi religious parties were supporting Taliban and bin laden, the Iranians and the Shia religious parties in Pakistan were supporting northern alliance. So once again the religious parties played a vital role and then suddenly they started attacking each other?s places of worship in Pakistan, killing thousands of innocent worshippers and still there is no end in sight to this sectarian issues.
After 9/11 the Americans declared these jihadis terrorist and attacked Afghanistan.
Since general pervaiz musharraf took over the power he has been trying his best to curb these extremist groups. There have been several military interventions in the border areas near Afghanistan, to destroy their training camps and to deport or arrest thousands of foreigners who came for afghan jihad but didn?t or couldn?t go back to the countries of their origin due to some reason. There are many who are on the wanted list in the countries of their origin, so they stayed in Afghanistan or in the border areas of Pakistan.
Why I am telling you this detail? The reason is that these Arabic speaking jihadis were the ones, who were interpreting verses and influencing young people to join jihad, not only against the soviets but also against the local government as well as against different sects in Pakistan.
Since the last three decades I have seen these groups using Quran and Islam consistently and continently to achieve their own personal goals. During the soviet invasion it was jihad against the infidel soviets, now since the American intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan the jihad is against the Jews and the Christians and the verse ?believers don?t make the Jews and the Christian your friends? is quoted nigh and day by these parties.Saudi Arabia government for example, approves two different Qurans,
what crap is that bro? and sure we know that a lot of terrorists come from the Pakistan and surrounding countries, so I say most Muslims are bloody confused, so I expect when it comes to translation they will also be confused, believe me Satan is very cleverWell, this two approved versions of Quran, are news for me. Please tell me more. now About the terrorists from Pakistan, yes indeed there are many fanatic groups here, its easy to manipulate people who are living below the poverty level and its easy to manipulate those who understand their religion only through assumptions, emotions and desires.
believe me Satan is very clever
Satan may be very clever but I don?t blame Satan for every thing wrong that happens. We are blessed with a brain to use and it is our own greed, desires and selfishness that is responsible for most of our misdeeds.
Didn?t he manage to flaw all the Christians?
Didn?t he manage to flaw all the Jews?
Didn?t he manage to flaw all the Hindus?
And the atheists, the pagans, and the devil worshippers
Why can't he flaw the msulims then?
Do you think the Muslims are different humans to the rest of all humans?
Let me raise this question please
Who do you think is Satan's number one enemy? Is it the Muslims?
I reckon they are, or what do you think?
Well, if you agree, then expect that the majority of Muslims will be confused.
make sense bro?
We are all humane beings and I judge other not by their status, colour or their beliefs but by their deeds. For me there are only two groups of people, good people and bad people. Good people follow the straight path of God regardless of what religion they practice.
About Satan I am not sure?bro, I?m sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn?t mean you as smartarse,
don?t worry brother I just mentioned it as a joke lol
you have to know bro that many translators looked at the previous translations by others and surely it will influence their outcome especially if they are not native Arabic speakers
what you suggested is not a bad idea to follow the majority as long as you feel comfortable with the understanding, however the best and safest option id to consult a native Arabic speaker that you know well and trust, and that person must be Muslim and surely know the Arabic Quran well. Then you make up you decision regarding your concerns
indeed you are right but most of the translations are approved by native Arabic speakers?
Bro even the majority of the best of the Arabic scholars like Ibn kathir, interpreted many things wrong,
It is all about logic and common sense, if it makes sense then we take if it does not then we should not take itWhy would ibn kathir interpret many things wrong? May be at that time his interpretations seemed all logical and made sense? But now with the changing times and advance knowledge some of the interpretations don?t make sense?
If we can?t find a definite answer then we have to drop the subject to avoid flawing our belief
You are right we have to drop the subject if we cant find a definite answer but it is not easy to drop it off you mind.
Sure anyone have the right to question anything, this is our freewill that were given to us, but because we must give account we should use this freewill very careful indeed.
Agree without any buts lol
Sorry bro, but I have to be honest, there is no benefit for me to lie, I insist on the translation I provided and I?m 100% positive that the Arabic word understand is not within the original Arabic text ?I posted the Arabic verse for all to see? and I hope any Arabic speaker look into it and see if I?m talking non sense
Brother I have absolutely no doubt in what you say, what confuses me is that the people who translated Quran in other languages, also could not have benefited from any lie specially when there are so many people/departments to check them and approve their translations? But this is a reality that some of the newer translations are different then the older translations, in some recent translations some verses have been translated to make them compatible with recent scientific discoveries and that to me seems intentional.
Take care. -
Peace be upon you all,
I just wanted to agree with the statement made that the ancient people knew that the earth revolved around teh sun. The problem is that white supremecy has ruled and taught only what they were aware of, and I am sure that does not represent all of them as well, onlythose who were in charge.
Whatever the case, there is much evidence that the ancients of Kemet, the oldest recorded civilization, had knowledge of this. They created structures that allowed the sun to shine through openings of buildings to mark certain periods of the year, etc.
Regarding Abraham and the stars, moon, and sun...this is a story to help us understand that we must be scientific in our approach, it is not a literal story just like the rest, so we cannot use an unverified story to judge if people knew about he earth going around the sun.
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peace idolfree1,
you wroteI just wanted to agree with the statement made that the ancient people knew that the earth revolved around teh sun. The problem is that white supremecy has ruled and taught only what they were aware of, and I am sure that does not represent all of them as well, onlythose who were in charge.
you have the right to believe, what ever you believe inwink
we love to blame others for our own flaws, examplethe satan, mushriqs, jew and christians, and now its white supremacy lolWhatever the case, there is much evidence that the ancients of Kemet, the oldest recorded civilization, had knowledge of this.
and who has told us about this ancient civilization? the white supremecy.
They created structures that allowed the sun to shine through openings of buildings to mark certain periods of the year, etc.
the mugals built taj mahal but still they knew nothing about the solar system. even if the kemet were familiar with this motion, it does not prove every ancient civilisation had such knowledge.
Regarding Abraham and the stars, moon, and sun...this is a story to help us understand that we must be scientific in our approach, it is not a literal story just like the rest, so we cannot use an unverified story to judge if people knew about he earth going around the sun.
story??? where does it say its a story? but what ever it is, it helps us to understand that Abraham found his way to God by the method of "trail and error" By analyzing his errors and then correcting them.
bye. -
Salaams Br.
Agent said
54 50?And our commandment is but one (commandment), as the twinkling of an eye.Should be
5450
And not our command is but one glance of eye.You are from Pakistan you should know the phrase
Aik Ashara aankh ka hi kaafi tha.? what do you think?
Make sense? Br.
And ?Be and it is? ?I haven?t checked but most likely along the same lines.
But you?re other words the earth and the heavens is a big thing for people to explain ? but I think these words are mistranslated that is the reason for the discrepancy/contradiction-i would say.
God Bless.
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salam mz357,
you wrote54 50?And our commandment is but one (commandment), as the twinkling of an eye.
Should be
5450
And not our command is but one glance of eye.You are from Pakistan you should know the phrase
Aik Ashara aankh ka hi kaafi tha.? what do you think?
Make sense? Br.
app nay theek kha hai janab,magar yehi to confusion hai?
agar aankh ka aik ashara kaafi hai toa phir chay din ka kya chakar hai?
phir 419 main aath din bantay hai?
and you must be knowing brother that if i ask any one here about all this,I WILL BE IN BIG TROUBLE lolAnd ?Be and it is? ?I haven?t checked but most likely along the same lines.
But you?re other words the earth and the heavens is a big thing for people to explain ? but I think these words are mistranslated that is the reason for the discrepancy/contradiction-i would say.
brother there are contraditions/discrepancies through out the Quran, when you read it in your own language only then you are able to see them and that makes a person like me a bit skeptical and confused.
now we all know that no translation of Quran can be printed without going through a process of scrutiny, there are hundreds of scholar and Quran academys who approve the translation and check all the error, so it is difficult to understand why there is difference in translation or how a certain verse can be mistranslated and yet approved by all the other?
peace. -
brother there are contraditions/discrepancies through out the Quran, when you read it in your own language only then you are able to see them and that makes a person like me a bit skeptical and confused.
Hello bro
would you like to debate the contradictions one at a time with me?
peace
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peace Ahmed,all
please read my original post again and explain the contradictions.
thanks.mate you listed 7 contradictions in the other thread and that is what I will start respond to, please don't confuse me
thanks