Moses companion
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Peace be upon you Elke,
good to see two guys with so different views that still talk to each other nicely
Thanks, we try
I believe that both things are possible in the same time; meaning that mohamed really existed but that at the same time there always is a symbolic meaning involved.
Yes, both are possible, but one is useful and one is useless in regards to our guidance. The truth is none of us can prove it true or false. BUT, the God tells us no to go after that which we have no knowledge of, so I go after the metaphorical understanding which is verified by our everyday life experiences.
I also have no problem about moses striking/separating the red seas - god can do what he wishes
Yes, the Indwelling Intelligence is certainly capable of anything, but we are told to look at creation for a reason, we are told to ponder and meditate for a reason. When we look, we see STRICT MATHEMATICAL PATTERNS in life. We see LAWS in everything. None of us have witnessed anything like a man splitting a sea. None have witnesses a stick turning into a snake. None of the people any of us has met has seen or heard of such a thing. We have to be responsible and stop fearing that not trusting obvious falsehood will cause lighting to strike us or some calamity. There are deep lessons in these stories to help us get to a peaceful mind state. Peace be upon you Elke
but true if someone told me something like this happening today i would have difficulty believing it.
Of course! It doesnt add up to LAW.
code 19 - may be it exists but people made an idol of it
I have no comment about 19
and sorry to touch another point not really discussed here
a symbolic interpretation of the "women" (feminin principle) to be confined in their houses until death unless gods shows them a way out is much more acceptable to me than real confinement of women. Even though at the time of the prophet - and in some countries nowadays - the fact to keep a woman in your house instead of throwing her out in the street could have been a protection for her. But the fact is - injustice is not accceptable to me - why is same law not applied to men - which leads me to believe - god being just - that what is actually talked about is symbolic - each one of us- man or woman - having both the feminin and the masculine principle inside...
I agree 100% that is is metaphorical, I am still pondering its meaning though. I am sure you have a good understanding of the yin and yang of all things, the God created all things in pairs.
The masculine is like the message that comes to us and the feminine would be the effect created by the message. A VERY LOOSE interpretation MIGHT BE that we confine our FORMED HABITS (feminine) until we from new ones, something along those lines. That is just off the top of my head and not verified, only shown to give another option to looking at this verse.
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
Here is something that was compiled on my computer from my readings, I think it is by Harun Yehya
The kings of Egypt-known as "Pharaohs" (or "Fir'awn" in the Arabic of the Quran)-
The Kings of Egypt referred to themselves as "Shekem", Pharoah was the name others gave to them.
regarded themselves as divine in the polytheistic, superstitious religion of ancient Egypt.
Polytheistic according to who? Thats like saying "islam" is polytheistic because of the 99 attributes. It is EXACTLY the same thing.
At a time when the people of Egypt favoured a superstitious belief system over a divine belief system-the same era in which when the Children of Israel were enslaved-Allah sent the Prophet Moses as a messenger to the tribe of Egypt.
No such history exists. No such enslavement has ever been recorded by the people of that time.
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
Likewise bro
Here is something that was compiled on my computer from my readings, I think it is by Harun Yehya
The Kings of Egypt referred to themselves as "Shekem", Pharoah was the name others gave to them.
Bro Pharoah is a Title, like President, you know I'm an egtptian and studied the Rgyptian History for years at school
regarded themselves as divine in the polytheistic, superstitious religion of ancient Egypt.
Polytheistic according to who? Thats like saying "islam" is polytheistic because of the 99 attributes. It is EXACTLY the same thing.
According to themselves bro
the 99 attributes has nothing to do with Islam, it is 99 decription to Allah and the one who said was Allah, now we know Allah is not a human, like Pharaoh
At a time when the people of Egypt favoured a superstitious belief system over a divine belief system-the same era in which when the Children of Israel were enslaved-Allah sent the Prophet Moses as a messenger to the tribe of Egypt.
No such history exists. No such enslavement has ever been recorded by the people of that time.
How do you know?, did you study the Egyptian History ever, or you just had a bit of a read about it?
peace
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Hello
Here is something I compiled on my forum from Isamic Awarness
Quranic Accuracy Vs. Biblical Error The Kings & Pharaohs Of Egypt
- Introduction
This paper proposes to investigate the usage of the titles "King" and "Pharaoh" during the time of Abraham(P), Joseph(P) and Moses(P) as used in both the Bible and the Quran.
For all kings, the contemporaries of Abraham(P), Joseph(P) and Moses(P), the Bible uses the term "Pharaoh" to address the kings of Egypt. The Quran however differs from the Bible the sovereign of Egypt who was a contemporary of Joseph(P) is named "King" (Arabic, Malik); whereas the Bible has named him "Pharaoh". As for the king who ruled during the time of Moses(P) the Quran repeatedly calls him "Pharaoh" (Arabic, Fir'awn).
These differences in detail between the Biblical and Quranic narrations appear to have great significance as will be discussed in this paper.- Biblical Usage Of The Word "Pharaoh"
Some examples of the usage of the word Pharaoh are presented below, and are taken from the stories of Abraham(P), Joseph(P) and Moses.
2.1 Pharaoh During The Time Of Abraham
According to the book of Genesis, the king who was a contemporary of Abraham was called Pharaoh, and this title is used six times in Genesis 1210-20. Three examples are illustrated below?But the Lord inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his house hold because of Abram's wife Sarai.?
?So Pharaoh summoned Abram. "What have you done to me?" he said. "Why didn't you tell me she was your wife?"
?Then Pharaoh gave orders about Abram to his men, and they sent him on his way, with his wife and everything he had.?
2.2 Pharaoh During The Time Of Joseph
According to the book of Genesis, the king who ruled Egypt in Joseph's time was also referred to as Pharaoh. The king is addressed as Pharaoh ninety times. The following examples are take from Genesis 41?So Pharaoh sent for Joseph, and he was quickly brought from the dungeon. When he had shaved and changed his clothes, he came before Pharaoh.?
?Then Joseph said to Pharaoh, "The dreams of Pharaoh are one and the same. God has revealed to Pharaoh what he is about to do."
?Joseph was thirty years old when he entered the service of Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from Pharaoh's presence and travelled throughout Egypt.?
2.3 Pharaoh During The Time Of Moses
According to the book of Exodus, the king who ruled Egypt in Moses' time was also referred to as Pharaoh. He is addressed as Pharaoh 128 times. Three examples are illustrated below?When Pharaoh heard of this, he tried to kill Moses, but Moses fled from Pharaoh and went to live in Midian... ?
?Then the Lord said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet."
?When Pharaoh's horses, chariots and horsemen went into the sea, the Lord brought the waters of the sea back over them, but the Israelites walked through the sea on dry land.?
Thus, for all kings, the contemporaries of Abraham(P), Joseph(P) and Moses(P), the Bible uses the term "Pharaoh" to address the kings of Egypt.
- Quranic Usage Of The Words "King" & "Pharaoh"
Some examples of the usage of the words King and Pharaoh are presented below, and are taken from the stories of Joseph(P) and Moses(P) . No such usage is to be found in the Quranic story of Abraham
3.1 King Of Egypt During The Time Of Joseph
The sovereign who ruled Egypt during Joseph's day is named "King" (Arabic, Malik); whereas the Bible has named him "Pharaoh". The Quran never once addresses this monarch as "Pharaoh"Two examples of the usage of the word King from the story of Joseph( are illustrated below. The Arabic word for King, Malik, is underlined in red in the Arabic text
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/quran/king1.gif
?The king (of Egypt) said "I do see (in a vision) seven fat cows, whom seven lean ones devour, and seven green ears of corn, and seven (others) withered. O ye chiefs! expound to me my vision, if it be that ye can interpret visions."
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/quran/king2.gif
?They said "We miss the great beaker of the king; for him who produces it, is (the reward of) a camel-load; I will be bound by it."
Further examples of the usage of the word King during the time of Joseph can be found in the Surah Yusuf. See 1243, 1250, 1254, 1272, 1276
3.2 Pharaoh During The Time Of Moses
As for the king who ruled during the time of Moses(P), the Quran repeatedly calls him Pharaoh (Arabic, Fir'awn). Two examples of the usage of the word Pharaoh during the time of Moses are illustrated below. The Arabic word for Pharaoh, Fir'awn, is underlined in red in the Arabic texthttp//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/quran/king3.gif
?Moses said "O Pharaoh! I am a messenger from the Lord of the Worlds."
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/quran/king4.gif
?Then after them sent We Moses and Aaron to Pharaoh and his chiefs with Our Signs. But they were arrogant they were a people in sin.?
Further examples of the usage of the word "Pharaoh" during the time of Moses can be found in the following verses
7104-137, 852, 854, 1075-90, 1197, 146, 2024, 2043, 2056, 2060, 2078, 2346, 2610-66, 2712, 283-42, 2939, 3812, 4024-46, 4346-85, 4417, 4431, 5013, 5138-40, 5441-42, 6611, 699, 7315-16, 7917-25, 8518
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/quran/king13.jpg
According to modern linguist research the word "Pharaoh" comes from the Egyptian Per-aa, meaning Great House and originally referred to the palace rather than the king himself. The word was used by the writers of the Old Testament and has since become a widely adopted title for all the Kings of Egypt. However, the Egyptians did not call their ruler "Pharaoh" until the 18th Dynasty (c.1552 - 1295 BC).
In the language of the hieroglyphs, "Pharaoh" was first used to refer to the king during the reign of Amenhophis IV (c.1352-1338 BC). We know that such a designation was correct in the time of Moses but the use of the word Pharaoh in the story of Joseph( is an anachronism, as under the rule of the Hyksos there was no "Pharaoh." Similarly, the events related in Genesis 12 concerning Abraham (c. 2300 BC) could not have occurred in a time when the sovereign of Egypt was called Pharaoh, and this exposes yet another anachronism. In several chapters of Genesis we find the same error. The biblical writers composed their texts under the influences of the knowledge of their time, when the king of Egypt was usually designated as "Pharaoh". The Interpreter's Dictionary Of The Bible explains the reasons of such discrepancies with modern knowledge
The frank attitude toward the stories about Egypt in Genesis and Exodus is that folk memory had retained the essentials of great Hebrew experience but had later clothed that memory with some details imperfectly recollected and some circumstantial details borrowed from later times and conditions.
The situation is entirely different in the Quran. We find mentioned the Egyptian king who was a contemporary of Joseph. For him the Quran uses the title "King" (Arabic, Malik); he is never once addressed as Pharaoh. As for the king who ruled during the time of Moses, the Quran repeatedly calls him Pharaoh (Arabic, Fir'awn).
These facts that we have mentioned were unknown at the time of the Quranic Revelation.
At the time of the Quranic Revelation, the only source of knowledge of the religious past was the Bible. From the time of the Old Testament to the Quran, the only document mankind possessed on these ancient stories was the Bible itself. Furthermore, the knowledge of the Old Egyptian hieroglyphs had been totally forgotten, and no one could read them until the 19th century AD.
These facts must be reflected upon, especially in the face of unfounded allegations that are usually made against the Prophet Muhammad,"the author of the Quran, who largely copied the Bible."
If there was no human knowledge in existence at the time, then from where did the Prophet Muhammad(P) obtain this information? If human factors are unable to account for the changes in the narrations which affected their meaning with regard to modern knowledge, another explanation has be accepted the Quran is a Revelation from God, and that Muhammad(P) is his final Prophet.
?And thus (it is) that We have sent down the Book to thee. So the People of the Book believe therein, as also do some of these (pagan Arabs) and none but Unbelievers reject our signs.?
?And thou (Muhammad) wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.?
?Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.?
?Yet they say "Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?" Say "The signs are indeed with God and I am indeed a clear Warner."
?And is it not enough for them that we have sent down to thee the Book which is rehearsed to them? Verily, in it is Mercy and a Reminder to those who believe.?
?Say ?Enough is God for a witness between me and you He knows what is in the heavens and on earth. And it is those who believe in vanities and reject God, that will perish (in the end).?"
And Allah knows best.
Thanks for reading
- Introduction
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Peace AB,
Moses companion was a Human "Nabi" his name was "Al Khadr"
HE WAS NOT AN ANGEL
The switch to plurer is very obvious, it is about Allah and His Nabi "Al Khadr"Any one who can read properly can clearly see that the plural CANNOT be about The God and anyone
- ?And as for the youth, his parents were faithful, so we feared that he would oppress them by his transgression and rejection.?
Does The God fear anything? Of course not.
AB, I think that you can read. However, your ability to see what the passage is saying is clouded by biblical and sectarian fairy tales as obvious from the following
ok bro, when I was 8 years old I was given a present which was a book by a famous egyptian writer named "Ahmed Bahgat" he still writes till this moment in Al Aharm Newspaper in Egypt, the book was about the stpries of the prophets as exctracted from the Quran and also by refering to some biblical sources, the book version was for children but it was so fascinating that when I grew up a little I bough all the books that talk about the story of the prophets including Ibn Kathir, all these books says that this man was a Nabi from the thousands Allah sent to humanity they gave him a name called Al Khadr and they all agreed on that, NONE HAS ARGUED THIS FACT, the Quran did not say his name but it sayd clearly what may incline that Al Khadr was one of those thousands of the Anbiaa
I don't blame you for believing in Such fairy tales as a child as most children believe in fascinating legends like Khodr who turns everything he touches green, the tooth fairy, and Santa Claus. Don't you think that you are now a little old to believe in such childlish nonsense?
By the way, like all writers who are employed by Al-Ahram, Ahmed Bahgat is nothing more than a government employee. Thus, what he writes reflects the government approved established dogma and he is paid to do that, otherwise he would be fired or worse. Of course, only naive people don't know how untruthful Al-Ahram and other government newspapers in Egypt are.
Peace on who followed the guidance,
Ayman
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Peace AB,
peace
Moses companion was a Human "Nabi" his name was "Al Khadr"
HE WAS NOT AN ANGEL
The switch to plurer is very obvious, it is about Allah and His Nabi "Al Khadr"Any one who can read properly can clearly see that the plural CANNOT be about The God and anyone
- ?And as for the youth, his parents were faithful, so we feared that he would oppress them by his transgression and rejection.?
come on, just say your interpetation and stop being sarcastic, now do you read arabic?
Does The God fear anything? Of course not.
really, i didn''t know that, thanks for telling me
AB, I think that you can read. However, your ability to see what the passage is saying is clouded by biblical and sectarian fairy tales as obvious from the following
here we go again, so what is your problem then?, just ignore my crap
ok bro, when I was 8 years old I was given a present which was a book by a famous egyptian writer named "Ahmed Bahgat" he still writes till this moment in Al Aharm Newspaper in Egypt, the book was about the stpries of the prophets as exctracted from the Quran and also by refering to some biblical sources, the book version was for children but it was so fascinating that when I grew up a little I bough all the books that talk about the story of the prophets including Ibn Kathir, all these books says that this man was a Nabi from the thousands Allah sent to humanity they gave him a name called Al Khadr and they all agreed on that, NONE HAS ARGUED THIS FACT, the Quran did not say his name but it sayd clearly what may incline that Al Khadr was one of those thousands of the Anbiaa
I don't blame you for believing in Such fairy tales as a child as most children believe in fascinating legends like Khodr who turns everything he touches green, the tooth fairy, and Santa Claus. Don't you think that you are now a little old to believe in such childlish nonsense?
well i have nothing to say but ignore your rubbish
By the way, like all writers who are employed by Al-Ahram, Ahmed Bahgat is nothing more than a government employee.
who gives a fluke? however I like him anyway
Thus, what he writes reflects the government approved established dogma and he is paid to do that, otherwise he would be fired or worse. Of course, only naive people don't know how untruthful Al-Ahram and other government newspapers in Egypt are.
I donlt give a fluke about Al Ahram as a news
pyramids however I like Ahmed Bahgat the writerPeace on who followed the guidance,
Ayman
ok well, i second that
ahmed bahgat
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
IF1
The Kings of Egypt referred to themselves as "Shekem", Pharoah was the name others gave to them.Ahmed
Bro Pharoah is a Title, like President, you know I'm an egtptian and studied the Rgyptian History for years at schoolRespectfully, you may live in Egypt now, but I am referring to the land when it was called Kemet and inhabited by dark skinned Africans (based on DNA testing of mummies). I live in US today and we are taught that columbus discovered America, an obvious lie.
If you study further, you will find that he word "pharoah" means "house", like "House of representatives", the Kings were called "shekem" and is where words like "Sheik" have come from.
Ahmed
regarded themselves as divine in the polytheistic, superstitious religion of ancient Egypt.idolfree1 wrote
Polytheistic according to who? Thats like saying "islam" is polytheistic because of the 99 attributes. It is EXACTLY the same thing.According to themselves bro
No. Maybe according to so called egyptologists. The term "Neber thcer" refers to the Lord of All in that language and that is proof often One God.
the 99 attributes has nothing to do with Islam, it is 99 decription to Allah and the one who said was Allah, now we know Allah is not a human, like Pharaoh
I do not know the correct number but The Most high, the ALL Knowing, etc are the very same "being", just described through different attributes. It is the same with Kemet. Amen Ra is not the "sun God", Ra symbolizes the Life force(ruh) and Amen means "hidden" (Ghayb), so it means hidden life force and is just an attribute of the ONE, same as "islam". I did not understand what you said at the end about pharaoh.
Quote
At a time when the people of Egypt favoured a superstitious belief system over a divine belief system-the same era in which when the Children of Israel were enslaved-Allah sent the Prophet Moses as a messenger to the tribe of Egypt.idolfree1 wrote
No such history exists. No such enslavement has ever been recorded by the people of that time.How do you know?, did you study the Egyptian History ever, or you just had a bit of a read about it?
I study it. Was that your answer? Please show where such enslavement took place.
Being from Egypt today means the same to me as someone beingfrom Mecca trying to say they should have better understanding of "islam". Proof is the deciding factor for me.
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Peace
Moses companion was a Human "Nabi" his name was "Al Khadr"
HE WAS NOT AN ANGEL
The switch to plurer is very obvious, it is about Allah and His Nabi "Al Khadr"
again it has nothing to do with the malaika
did you notice that the pirate (who takes the people ships) was described as being a "Malik", while we know he was a human and a bad one indeed
peace
Khi- Salam. 1st of all the Quran never names the person. Al-khidr is a traditonal name given and nobody knows whether its right. Its even claimed that hes alive going in the favour of him being an angel. The Quran doesnt call al-khidr and angel nor a human. But we can deduce him being an angel because he executed judgements which humans cant. He was also cleverer than Moses, the main Prophet at that time. Nowehere does the Quran call al-khidr a prophet. There are 20 people TERMED prophets in the Quran Aaron and Moses receiving one and ther same scripture. Prophet is a mesenger receiving a scripture thus we have Quran the 19th scripture. This mathematical symmetry is destroyed if al-khidr is to be a prophet. Please read the following very carefully
http//www.submission.org/messenger/prophet.html
http//www.submission.org/Quran-19.html
GOD Bless! -
Peace be upon you Ahmed,
Peace bro
IF1
The Kings of Egypt referred to themselves as "Shekem", Pharoah was the name others gave to them.Ahmed
Bro Pharoah is a Title, like President, you know I'm an egtptian and studied the Rgyptian History for years at schoolRespectfully, you may live in Egypt now, but I am referring to the land when it was called Kemet and inhabited by dark skinned Africans (based on DNA testing of mummies). I live in US today and we are taught that columbus discovered America, an obvious lie.
Bro the egtptian histry is well documeneted and being an egyptian I was forced to study it at schools since my nails were soft
If you study further, you will find that he word "pharoah" means "house", like "House of representatives", the Kings were called "shekem" and is where words like "Sheik" have come from.
mate calling him house will make no sense within the clear arabic context, again I know a guy named 'Shams" would that mean that it is not his name because iut means "Sun"?, of course not, a name is a name and in the Quran Pharaoh was given "Phiron" as a name, now for Firon to mean house or not will make no differnence because it was used as a name of a person or I should say was used to refer to a person
Ahmed
regarded themselves as divine in the polytheistic, superstitious religion of ancient Egypt.idolfree1 wrote
Polytheistic according to who? Thats like saying "islam" is polytheistic because of the 99 attributes. It is EXACTLY the same thing.According to themselves bro
No. Maybe according to so called egyptologists. The term "Neber thcer" refers to the Lord of All in that language and that is proof often One God.
well, I have to agree that we can't know the past 100%, that is why Allah have provided the preserved Quran
the 99 attributes has nothing to do with Islam, it is 99 decription to Allah and the one who said was Allah, now we know Allah is not a human, like Pharaoh
I do not know the correct number but The Most high, the ALL Knowing, etc are the very same "being", just described through different attributes. It is the same with Kemet. Amen Ra is not the "sun God", Ra symbolizes the Life force(ruh) and Amen means "hidden" (Ghayb), so it means hidden life force and is just an attribute of the ONE, same as "islam". I did not understand what you said at the end about pharaoh.
you see the egyptians were flawed since the first prphet sent to then, "Idris" who is also known as the Egyptian King "Ossorise" and because Idris taught the egyptians many things including writing and agriculture, they made hima God, the flaw in the Egyptians is in their blood since BC
for Phiron, I really careless about further info other than which Pharaoh he is and I read many researches and I believe I reached my conclusion regarding who was he.
Quote
At a time when the people of Egypt favoured a superstitious belief system over a divine belief system-the same era in which when the Children of Israel were enslaved-Allah sent the Prophet Moses as a messenger to the tribe of Egypt.idolfree1 wrote
No such history exists. No such enslavement has ever been recorded by the people of that time.bro it is very well known about humans not just the Egyptians, the egyptians made many Pharaohs as gods, like the christiand who made jesus like a god, like the hindu who made some other millions of gods
How do you know?, did you study the Egyptian History ever, or you just had a bit of a read about it?
I study it. Was that your answer? Please show where such enslavement took place.
bro, it was not an answer, I'm just chatting with you, what I said is verfy well documenetd and known an example is "Ossorise" the Egyptian king who was Prophet Idris, also Phiron is another example, it was running in theor blood as far as I believe
Being from Egypt today means the same to me as someone beingfrom Mecca trying to say they should have better understanding of "islam". Proof is the deciding factor for me.
bro what I meant that as being an egyptian child I was forced to study the Pharaoh history for at least 10 years on my study
peace bro
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Peace,
My input is that the person who taught Moses was a human, but was given special abilities (as God says) to determine the course of events.
He was not a prophet (since he received no scripture) nor a messenger (he delivered no message), but he acted in a capacity as God's servant.
My reading also is that he has been alive for some time before Moses (and possibly still is).
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Peace,
My input is that the person who taught Moses was a human, but was given special abilities (as God says) to determine the course of events.
He was not a prophet (since he received no scripture) nor a messenger (he delivered no message), but he acted in a capacity as God's servant.
My reading also is that he has been alive for some time before Moses (and possibly still is).
Peace Layth
there are many prophets in the Quran who received no scriptures, like Solyman Yehya and many others and they also didnlt deliever any messages
also Moses companion may had a message to others, in fact it may be comsidered that his message was to Moses, however he might guided other people and the Quran never mentioned
the Quran also mentioned that there many prophets that were no mentioned
peace
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Salam Ahmed Bahgat,
Peace Layth
there are many prophets in the Quran who received no scriptures, like Solyman Yehya and many others and they also didnlt deliever any messages
Khi- Solomon didnt deliever any messages? Did you forget his letter to the queen of sheba as in invitation to worship GOD Alone? Also how do you know yahya didnt deliever any message? Just because the Quran doesnt detail them doesnt mean he delivered none. It is enough when GOD calls a man a "Nabi" we understand that hes given the scripture and wisdom. Please read
www.submission.org/messenger/prophet.html
www.submission.org/Quran-19.htmlalso Moses companion may had a message to others, in fact it may be comsidered that his message was to Moses, however he might guided other people and the Quran never mentioned
Khi- Please visit the above websites. Also why dont you apply the same principal to Prophet Yahya then?
the Quran also mentioned that there many prophets that were no mentioned
peace
Khi- No the Quran says there were more MESSENHERS(rusul) which were mentioned
Messengers(rusulan) we have told you about, and messengers(rusulan) we never told you about. And GOD spoke to Moses directly.
GOD Bless! -
Salam Ahmed Bahgat,
Salam bro
Peace Layth
there are many prophets in the Quran who received no scriptures, like Solyman Yehya and many others and they also didnlt deliever any messages
Khi- Solomon didnt deliever any messages? Did you forget his letter to the queen of sheba as in invitation to worship GOD Alone?
no bro I did not forget, but thought layth talkin g about a message to a huge number of humans
but if we consider that all those propphets taught humans good things regardless of how many humans been taugh, then all prophets had messages with them
and because Moses companion had a few messages to Moses, he can be consider a messenger
for me and to be honest I don't need to differetiate between a prophet and a messenger, for me BOTH ARE THE SAME
Also how do you know yahya didnt deliever any message? Just because the Quran doesnt detail them doesnt mean he delivered none. It is enough when GOD calls a man a "Nabi" we understand that hes given the scripture and wisdom. Please read
www.submission.org/messenger/prophet.html
www.submission.org/Quran-19.htmlI don't know if yehya had a physical message or not but I'm sure he had a spritual message with him like any other prophet, they are good examples to us and I consider this as a message
I know all these differntiation between messengers and prophets for years and through arabic scholars, but as I said I don't differntiate between them and I take all of them as differnt examples with spiritual messages the least
also Moses companion may had a message to others, in fact it may be comsidered that his message was to Moses, however he might guided other people and the Quran never mentioned
Khi- Please visit the above websites. Also why dont you apply the same principal to Prophet Yahya then?
mate I was just talking logic to Layth, NOT HARD CORE EVIDENCES
I have no problem if Moses companion is a messneger, a prophet, a malak in human shape, or just a mere good fellow human being
I take it as faith that there was a message to Moses that has to be sent by that entity mentioned in the verse
on a personal level though and just for the record and in no way a hard core faith , I may lean to believe that he is a man, and he is a messanger and his name was Al Khadar
peace be with you bro
the Quran also mentioned that there many prophets that were no mentionedpeace
Khi- No the Quran says there were more MESSENHERS(rusul) which were mentioned
Messengers(rusulan) we have told you about, and messengers(rusulan) we never told you about. And GOD spoke to Moses directly.
GOD Bless! -
Hello Truth
Please note that the companion mentioned in 1860 is totally different person to the one we are talking about in 1865
peace
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Peace adley,
By 'still is' do you mean still leaving in this day and age? Or still living after Moses died? Just curious...
Yes, I mean to this day and age.
If you read closely the story of Moses and his search for this person, you will find that the sign/indicator for Moses was when the fish they had with them came back to life and swam off...Moses immediately noted that this was the sign they were looking for and they retraced their steps until they found the being (let us call him 'Khidr' for ease of reference).
I can't remember which book I read this in, but it was said that during the crusades, this passage in chapter 18 was looked at in Europe to indicate that the fountain of youth (spring of life) was located in the middle east and was a quest that many of the knights undertook.
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Salam Ahmed Bahgat,
and because Moses companion had a few messages to Moses, he can be consider a messenger for me and to be honest I don't need to differetiate between a prophet and a messenger, for me BOTH ARE THE SAME
Khi- Correct and angels can be messengers you know. Infact in general they are "malakan rasoolan". Doesnt make them prophets though. As for the last part well i disagree and you should go through the websites i posted to see why i think so.
I don't know if yehya had a physical message or not but I'm sure he had a spritual message with him like any other prophet, they are good examples to us and I consider this as a message
I know all these differntiation between messengers and prophets for years and through arabic scholars, but as I said I don't differntiate between them and I take all of them as differnt examples with spiritual messages the least
Khi- Ok. I just hope you did read the above two sites also.
mate I was just talking logic to Layth, NOT HARD CORE EVIDENCES
I have no problem if Moses companion is a messneger, a prophet, a malak in human shape, or just a mere good fellow human being
I take it as faith that there was a message to Moses that has to be sent by that entity mentioned in the verse
on a personal level though and just for the record and in no way a hard core faith , I may lean to believe that he is a man, and he is a messanger and his name was Al Khadar
peace be with you bro
the Quran also mentioned that there many prophets that were no mentionedpeace
Khi- Well then everything should be ok. GOD Bless!
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
you see the egyptians were flawed since the first prphet sent to then, "Idris" who is also known as the Egyptian King "Ossorise" and because Idris taught the egyptians many things including writing and agriculture, they made hima God, the flaw in the Egyptians is in their blood since BC
Brother, just because you were taught something for many years does not make it correct. Fisrt of all , how does an Egyptian get "Osirus" from "Ausar"? Osirus is what the Greeks called this "concept". I will conclude that the same thing has happenned to the Ausarian philosophy that has happenned to the messages of confirmation that came after it, people were given symbolisms and took them literal, like Jesus.
I refer you to the books by Ra Un Nefer Amen regarding the philosophy, namely "Metu Neter".
I will conclude this discussion so we can bring it back to the topic of Musa's companion.
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Salam Ahmed Bahgat,
Peace mate
and because Moses companion had a few messages to Moses, he can be consider a messenger for me and to be honest I don't need to differetiate between a prophet and a messenger, for me BOTH ARE THE SAME
Khi- Correct and angels can be messengers you know. Infact in general they are "malakan rasoolan". Doesnt make them prophets though.
exactly bro the angels were named "Rusul" especially te angels of death, now those angels have no physical words to deliver rather they deiliver death and consequently they have the message of death and that is why they were called "Rusul"
As for the last part well i disagree and you should go through the websites i posted to see why i think so.
i will bro, thanks
I don't know if yehya had a physical message or not but I'm sure he had a spritual message with him like any other prophet, they are good examples to us and I consider this as a message
I know all these differntiation between messengers and prophets for years and through arabic scholars, but as I said I don't differntiate between them and I take all of them as differnt examples with spiritual messages the least
Khi- Ok. I just hope you did read the above two sites also.
ok, can you please post the link again just to make sure
mate I was just talking logic to Layth, NOT HARD CORE EVIDENCES
I have no problem if Moses companion is a messneger, a prophet, a malak in human shape, or just a mere good fellow human being
I take it as faith that there was a message to Moses that has to be sent by that entity mentioned in the verse
on a personal level though and just for the record and in no way a hard core faith , I may lean to believe that he is a man, and he is a messanger and his name was Al Khadar
peace be with you bro
the Quran also mentioned that there many prophets that were no mentionedpeace
Khi- Well then everything should be ok. GOD Bless!
Thank you bro
peace be with you
